Nullifiers the death of WF

[(PSN)Crixus044]

1 hour ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

Whats worse, Nullifiers or those Hyena type enemies with the constant magnetic procs from yesterdays Corpus Bust alert?

(you might want to be careful what you wish for :P )

I made a post about how nullifiers should be an enemy with an intangible magnetic field, not a force bubble with nullifying powers as soon as you step in it. It should protect other enemies from powers and should make casting impossible, but it shouldn't just destroy already casted powers like iron skin, snowglobe, shadows of the dead, rift walk etc.

[Chewarette]

 

1 hour ago, Shifty_Shuffler said:

Whats worse, Nullifiers or those Hyena type enemies with the constant magnetic procs from yesterdays Corpus Bust alert?

(you might want to be careful what you wish for :P )

Well, those Hyenas are preferable. The magnetic status is avoidable, plus we have plenty of spells and mods to stay unaffected or clear statuses, and you can still shoot them.

I 100% prefer those Hyenas over Nullifiers. And god knows how much I hate hyenas :D

[Sebrent]

@(PS4)Final_Dragon01 That's fine. Continue to claim strawman where there isn't. Your lack of content/fact won't be missed. Enjoy the new threads that I see you've started on this topic ... again.

@CroFreeRunner I agree with fixing the nullifier bubble clipping through walls. tI think that would stop several of the complaints about nullifiers. My only concern is how much work that would be for the developers to have the bubble not clip the walls that separate rooms but not be impeded by other terrain the litters rooms.

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 Would you mind clarifying why you think these things? Merely stating that you think they should go isn't helpful to the discussion.

@(PS4) Crixus044 I think what things "should" or "shouldn't" do is debatable given differing perspectives on how things are "supposed to be".

Could you please clarify what you mean by "intangible magnetic field". Does this mean it would no longer be visible? Would it no longer affect ranged weapons?

Personally, I'm not sure how good/bad it would be for gameplay for differing sets of players if the nullifier bubble no longer removed abilities instantly on touch. I have seen some other suggestions from players such as:

• Bubble works same as it does now except the removal of abilities is a "pulse" inside the bubble so that players can time when they dash into the bubble to melee so that their buffs aren't always removed ... promotes dashing in "more intelligently".
• The bubble doesn't remove the buffs, but it removes their benefits while inside the bubble. For example: You have Iron Skin on you. It works until you run into the bubble. Inside the bubble, Iron Skin is still on you, but you're not receiving any of the benefits of it. Once you are back outside the bubble, Iron Skin is still on you and you're again receiving the benefits of it.

Would either of those two options work for you?

@Chewarette

I didn't think the jackals were that bad either. However, I would have preferred to have a bit more of a telegraph to the attack.

This is why I would be quicker to complain about the Corpus Comba than about the nullifier as you never see their field coming. But, hey, that might be a design decision, it does make me have to quickly react. I still have options :-)

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

@Sebrent

Nullifiers where introduced to curb power use, however they block weapons fire as well, with arctic nullifiers you have to deal with the snowglobe first before you can get rid of the nullification bubble and shock nullifiers can damage you just by being within range of it's aura.

As i stated they are usually never alone, in fissures they are often accompanied by bombards, gunners and ancients meaning you have to deal with the ancient first (otherwise you'll get dragged into the corrupted grineer heavies and groundpounded) then the bombards and gunners before the nullifier, in normal missions they are often teamed up with techs, sappers, shield ospreys and eximus units, most versions of nullifiers (corrupted and normal) can spawn in multiples sometimes up 4-5 at a time with their bubbles overlapping, worse if they are a mixed eximus nullifier group.

during this time while dealing with the other units, you're frame is vulnerable if they rely on abilities for protection or healing at levels 45+ this can be suicidal to low armoured frames that rely on said powers/healing abilities , i usually play inaros however if i am inside the bubble i cannot heal, outside the bubble you can't hit the other units b/c of the bubble/snowglobe+bubble combo.

 

TL;DR nullifiers should be dialled back to only stop power use and not block weapons fire or allow punchthrough to work on nullifier and arctic bubbles.

[SirWolfen]

No.

[Sebrent]

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 Thanks for the additional info. The examples you gave do show scenarios where the difficulty is raised, but it's not impossible. It is a good point, however, that this affects less tanky, more power-dependent frames more than others, but so do some other mechanics for other sets of frames or individual frames. One such example is Toxin/Bleed procs against frames with innately more shields than health.

Several nullifiers spawing together can be aggravating. I do think that the spawns could possibly be improved with spawns being done as "squads" so that they can be done more intelligently. If done this way, then each squad could be capped at 1 nullifier. However, if to the point where multiple squads are spawning, that could still allow multiple nullifiers to spawn together as their squads spawn together.

As far as your tl;dr ... I've said before in the forums that I have no issue with having nullifier bubble not affect shots ... but I think that change would need to come with nullifiers becoming tankier than they are now ... right now they are made of paper.

 

[(XBOX)Lem0n Sama]

Personally, I don't think they have a place in the current versions of the game (both PC and console), there are 3 other types of Corpus mobs able to nullify powers that actually DO require thought or at least some small form of planning to work with/around. Nullifiers are merely roaming blanket-nerfs, if DE wanted to challenge us with Nullifiers, they would be better suited as mini-bosses or bosses (with obvious additional changes to make them more formidable), making Sergeant a Nullifier would be a decent step in that direction, the boss is literally nothing more than a Corpus capture target.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

2 hours ago, Sebrent said:

Several nullifiers spawing together can be aggravating. I do think that the spawns could possibly be improved with spawns being done as "squads" so that they can be done more intelligently. If done this way, then each squad could be capped at 1 nullifier. However, if to the point where multiple squads are spawning, that could still allow multiple nullifiers to spawn together as their squads spawn together.

true, in grineer fissure missions you just have one set of nullifiers to deal with along with ancients, gunners, bombards spawning with it commanders ,hyekka masters and scorpions as the non-corrupted side (until they get assimilated) all in the one area...  hell in a handbasket there!!

however in corpus fissure missions, you have 2 sets of nullifiers, the normal (blue) corpus ones AND the already-corrupted ones spawning from the fissures at the same time that the normal nullifiers are being converted effectively doubling the nullifier count in a single instance and turning the whole place into and yellow/blue bubble party with the poor tenno stuck in the middle watching the blue bubbles evaporate quicker than my bank balance.

[MirageKnight]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I made a post about how nullifiers should be an enemy with an intangible magnetic field, not a force bubble with nullifying powers as soon as you step in it. It should protect other enemies from powers and should make casting impossible, but it shouldn't just destroy already casted powers like iron skin, snowglobe, shadows of the dead, rift walk etc.

I suggested something similar not too long ago: Replace the bubble with an invisible AOE ability whose function is to prevent the casting of powers and scramble our HUD's. No absorbing ranged attacks or killing already active abilities. Widen the AOE to 25 - 30m. Allow for the backpack generator to be shot / hacked off. Kill the Nully or shoot off the generator, AOE shuts off.

[Tsunero]

On 2016. 08. 30. at 8:00 PM, BAY35 said:

Okay, I hate nullifiers as much as everyone else but do we seriously need threads on them EVERY F*CKING DAY? This is getting ridiculous.

This just proves that DE should do something about them and that the majority HATES THEM.

[Guest GorgonTheHeroine]

On 8/30/2016 at 1:55 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Nullifiers have gotten a buff, now they instantly kill snow globe among completely trashing all other abilities. They are ridiculously op. Warframe is fun because of powers and abilities...if i wanted to play a 3rd person shooter...i would play destiny.

 

Plz nerf nullys.

Just kill them in melee.

Why is this tactic eluding players? 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

33 minutes ago, JamesBondReject said:

Just kill them in melee.

Why is this tactic eluding players? 

It doesn't elude us. We are not imbeciles. We just don't like it.

[Sunset_Thief]

On 9/2/2016 at 5:06 PM, Sebrent said:

@(PS4)Final_Dragon01 That's fine. Continue to claim strawman where there isn't. Your lack of content/fact won't be missed. Enjoy the new threads that I see you've started on this topic ... again.

@CroFreeRunner I agree with fixing the nullifier bubble clipping through walls. tI think that would stop several of the complaints about nullifiers. My only concern is how much work that would be for the developers to have the bubble not clip the walls that separate rooms but not be impeded by other terrain the litters rooms.

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 Would you mind clarifying why you think these things? Merely stating that you think they should go isn't helpful to the discussion.

@(PS4) Crixus044 I think what things "should" or "shouldn't" do is debatable given differing perspectives on how things are "supposed to be".

Could you please clarify what you mean by "intangible magnetic field". Does this mean it would no longer be visible? Would it no longer affect ranged weapons?

Personally, I'm not sure how good/bad it would be for gameplay for differing sets of players if the nullifier bubble no longer removed abilities instantly on touch. I have seen some other suggestions from players such as:

• Bubble works same as it does now except the removal of abilities is a "pulse" inside the bubble so that players can time when they dash into the bubble to melee so that their buffs aren't always removed ... promotes dashing in "more intelligently".
• The bubble doesn't remove the buffs, but it removes their benefits while inside the bubble. For example: You have Iron Skin on you. It works until you run into the bubble. Inside the bubble, Iron Skin is still on you, but you're not receiving any of the benefits of it. Once you are back outside the bubble, Iron Skin is still on you and you're again receiving the benefits of it.

Would either of those two options work for you?

@Chewarette

I didn't think the jackals were that bad either. However, I would have preferred to have a bit more of a telegraph to the attack.

This is why I would be quicker to complain about the Corpus Comba than about the nullifier as you never see their field coming. But, hey, that might be a design decision, it does make me have to quickly react. I still have options :-)

too much work for devs? man they are supposed to do this game is still in development, we are palying this game so they know what is wrong with it :P, nullys are a big problem to a frame like ivara or loki u feelin me?

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Isolated nullys Isn't a problem ,but with spam of nullys all the enemies find refuge in your bubbles , that s a real problem 

[fatpig84]

I only dislike nullifiers because they make bows, sniper rifles and semi auto battle rifles completely worthless.
Yeah it like let's encourage people to use more Simulors !

[Sebrent]

17 hours ago, Momo93 said:

This just proves that DE should do something about them and that the majority HATES THEM.

No, it doesn't prove a thing. It's largely the same people complaining every day. Many of them have even said that they are constantly reposting on the forums about it because they think that is how you get something done ... instead of intelligent discussion.

20 hours ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

true, in grineer fissure missions you just have one set of nullifiers to deal with along with ancients, gunners, bombards spawning with it commanders ,hyekka masters and scorpions as the non-corrupted side (until they get assimilated) all in the one area...  hell in a handbasket there!!

however in corpus fissure missions, you have 2 sets of nullifiers, the normal (blue) corpus ones AND the already-corrupted ones spawning from the fissures at the same time that the normal nullifiers are being converted effectively doubling the nullifier count in a single instance and turning the whole place into and yellow/blue bubble party with the poor tenno stuck in the middle watching the blue bubbles evaporate quicker than my bank balance.

This is anecdotal, but I haven't really found it to be an issue. If there are more of them, I have more to kill before I move in that direction ... similar to if there are a ton of mines / napalms / etc..

2 hours ago, CroFreeRunner said:

too much work for devs? man they are supposed to do this game is still in development, we are palying this game so they know what is wrong with it :P, nullys are a big problem to a frame like ivara or loki u feelin me?

I'm going to assume you're not a developer by this comment. There is this thing called "return on investment". If something takes 100 man hours and something else takes 10 man hours and they both get about the same effect, you are going with the 10. In the same vein, if something requires you to gut entire parts of your core system, that is likely not going to be a good idea.

Additionally, just because the game is in development doesn't mean that any wide-speeding changes are plausible. They have to still make money because this is their living. People seem to ignore that DE is made of people just like them that are working the hamster wheel to make their livings for their selves and their own families.

As far as "feelin you" ... yes ... since Loki Prime is my most played frame, I do know about the effect of nullifiers on him. Personally, I don't find them to be an issue as I can see the bubble and stay out of it. If they are in my way, I stay out of it and kill them or dash in, kill just the nullifier in melee, then dash out and re-invis. It's very simple.

[Troll_Logic]

On 9/1/2016 at 11:03 PM, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

I never claimed that It was.

You must certainly have and so have the other anti-nullifier players.  It's implied and directly stated in almost every message.

On 9/1/2016 at 11:03 PM, (PS4)Final_Dragon01 said:

My issue is your claim that only people who constantly post on the forums want nullifiers changed.

I have never stated, implied, or even hinted that in any way.

[Troll_Logic]

21 hours ago, Momo93 said:

This just proves that DE should do something about them and that the majority HATES THEM.

No it doesn't.

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

On 30 August 2016 at 6:55 PM, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Nullifiers have gotten a buff, now they instantly kill snow globe among completely trashing all other abilities. They are ridiculously op. Warframe is fun because of powers and abilities...if i wanted to play a 3rd person shooter...i would play destiny.

 

Plz nerf nullys.

For a start, Destiny is a first person shooter. The only time you are third person is emoting, swording or in the social areas unless it is a relic, of which one out of three is an actual gun and the other two are swording still. 

That said, i would appreciate it if Nullifiers prevented the effects of an ability rather than the ability itself, and then only abilities which affect Combat. For example, desecrate being unaffected, but snowglobes being able to be shot through while touched by a bubble.

[Top_Kekkonen]

On 30/08/2016 at 6:00 PM, BAY35 said:

Okay, I hate nullifiers as much as everyone else but do we seriously need threads on them EVERY F*CKING DAY? This is getting ridiculous.

DE do not seem to understand us.

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

6 hours ago, Sebrent said:

This is anecdotal, but I haven't really found it to be an issue. If there are more of them, I have more to kill before I move in that direction ... similar to if there are a ton of mines / napalms / etc..

try doing that inside a spy vault during a fissure mission, nullifiers in normal corpus is bad enough but in fissure missions they completely kill any form of stealth in these small enclosed areas since stealth is applied by abilities.

i just did several runs of the mars spy fissure mission and on every run there were nullifiers spawning inside the data extraction area with their bubble covering the console

[Sebrent]

@Top_Kekkonen No, a few of you are just acting like kids who won't shut up till they get their way ... regardless of whether you're right or wrong ... the few or the many ... given reasons for/against. Some parents have failed.

@(XB1)Twinna25 What if nullifiers were split into different "flavors" where one type removed and protected against our "offensive" powers and the other flavor removed our "defensive" powers?

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 I do that all the time. Please see my posts in the various relic threads ... unless doing a Radiant share, you won't see me doing a fissure unless it is Spy because I want to get more relics ... stretch one Axi into 3 more relics ... stretch one Neo into 2 more ... and so on. It has not been a problem.

It is a l2p issue in this case. Once you've gotten to that console, there is nothing preventing you from killing that nullifier without setting off an alarm. It's stupidly easy. Even then, setting off the alarm once you're at the console ... that's not a problem. You're at the console ... even an average hacker could get it done in that time as the time you have left should be enough to fail the hack via timing out at least once if not twice.

You're acting like something I find stupidly trivial is some insurmountable thing because of nullifiers. I find it baffling.

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Just now, Sebrent said:

@Top_Kekkonen No, a few of you are just acting like kids who won't shut up till they get their way ... regardless of whether you're right or wrong ... the few or the many ... given reasons for/against. Some parents have failed.

@(XB1)Twinna25 What if nullifiers were split into different "flavors" where one type removed and protected against our "offensive" powers and the other flavor removed our "defensive" powers?

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 I do that all the time. Please see my posts in the various relic threads ... unless doing a Radiant share, you won't see me doing a fissure unless it is Spy because I want to get more relics ... stretch one Axi into 3 more relics ... stretch one Neo into 2 more ... and so on. It has not been a problem.

It is a l2p issue in this case. Once you've gotten to that console, there is nothing preventing you from killing that nullifier without setting off an alarm. It's stupidly easy. Even then, setting off the alarm once you're at the console ... that's not a problem. You're at the console ... even an average hacker could get it done in that time as the time you have left should be enough to fail the hack via timing out at least once if not twice.

You're acting like something I find stupidly trivial is some insurmountable thing because of nullifiers. I find it baffling.

What would we class utility as then?

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

4 minutes ago, Sebrent said:

 

@(PS4)shadowwraith_666 I do that all the time. Please see my posts in the various relic threads ... unless doing a Radiant share, you won't see me doing a fissure unless it is Spy because I want to get more relics ... stretch one Axi into 3 more relics ... stretch one Neo into 2 more ... and so on. It has not been a problem.

It is a l2p issue in this case. Once you've gotten to that console, there is nothing preventing you from killing that nullifier without setting off an alarm. It's stupidly easy. Even then, setting off the alarm once you're at the console ... that's not a problem. You're at the console ... even an average hacker could get it done in that time as the time you have left should be enough to fail the hack via timing out at least once if not twice.

You're acting like something I find stupidly trivial is some insurmountable thing because of nullifiers. I find it baffling.

Ciphers. Don't forget ciphers. It isn't a Sortie, you can actually use a Cipher. I, too, have no issue with Spy fissures. I cipher the whole damn thing.

[LabMan95]

Nullifiers themselves are not bad. In the void, where they can house 2 bombards and a heavy gunner is where things get less fun. They're challenging like they are, but the bubble layers and the fact only high RoF weapons can get through them is kinda bothersome and bringing an "assault rifle/simulor only" meta. Just turning the bubble into an actual bubble and less like multiple bubbles stacked on each other would help a lot, but I'm sure this has been said a bunch already. Maybe just making it an aura instead of a bubble would be even better. I'm sure DE is thinking of something to release to the public in 3 months or so, since big changes and updates to the game (not hotfixes) take a long time, and something like this will probably happen with a big update because it's such a publicized issue