Conclave mods in PvE

[Fukushu]

13 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Just as pathetic as the excuse "I want Conclave rewards but I don't wanna do Conclave so it should drop everywhere else!".

Well, maybe DE could put them into Hieracon along with Arcanes too, or make Exterminates in Earth reward everything, mods, augments, primes, relics, synd stuff,  everything, since Exterminate seems to be very popular.

Now you're just being childish. Conclave is a tacked on mode that should remain separate, but if the mods become available in PVE, they should be obtainable through PVP or PVE.

Here, let me walk you through what has happened already, and maybe then you'll understand:

DE added PVP that used the mods we earn through PVE, and it was an unbalanced mess of one shotting, spawn killing, cross map sniping chaos. What'd DE do? They created separate mods for Conclave (which some players think is still a bad idea since even those mods take away from the skill needed for Conclave). Players saw these mods and said "Hey, those are pretty cool. Will we ever get to use them in PVE?" At the time, DE said they wanted to keep PVE and PVP completely separated, and while there were still players asking for the mods to be used in PVE, all was good.

Then, out of nowhere, DE made certain PVP mods available in PVE, but with no way to get them other than Conclave or trade chat!

Players were upset and immediately took to the forums, saying DE was forcing us to play Conclave or buy plat to trade for these new mods. They demanded that if PVP was worming its way into PVE with these mods, they should be earned through PVE as well!

And DE listened. We were given The Second Dream, and with this quest, a whole new species was added: the old enemy of the Orokin and nemesis of the Tenno, the Sentients. These new enemies were fearsome and powerful, and their damage adaptation made them difficult to put down if you didn't come prepared. Then, once the moon was torn from the Void, these Sentients began appearing on these new maps as well, and we fought hard to put them down.

It was a hard fight, but eventually one Tenno managed to take down one of these Sentients, and there, amongst the techno-organic debris and Neurodes, laid a single mod, its golden beam shining brightly against the cold white of Lua. That Tenno crept over to the mod and gingerly lifted it from the ground, and there, in his hands, lay the most beautiful thing they had ever seen:

A Conclave mod, earned through PVE.

Now, I hope you enjoyed that bedtime story, little Nazrethim. Tuck yourself in, and I might just tell you another story of how the Tenno learned of what they truly were.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Fukushu

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Now you're just being childish. Conclave is a tacked on mode that should remain separate, but if the mods become available in PVE, they should be obtainable through PVP or PVE.

Here, let me walk you through what has happened already, and maybe then you'll understand:

DE added PVP that used the mods we earn through PVE, and it was an unbalanced mess of one shotting, spawn killing, cross map sniping chaos. What'd DE do? They created separate mods for Conclave (which some players think is still a bad idea since even those mods take away from the skill needed for Conclave). Players saw these mods and said "Hey, those are pretty cool. Will we ever get to use them in PVE?" At the time, DE said they wanted to keep PVE and PVP completely separated, and while there were still players asking for the mods to be used in PVE, all was good.

Then, out of nowhere, DE made certain PVP mods available in PVE, but with no way to get them other than Conclave or trade chat!

Players were upset and immediately took to the forums, saying DE was forcing us to play Conclave or buy plat to trade for these new mods. They demanded that if PVP was worming its way into PVE with these mods, they should be earned through PVE as well!

And DE listened. We were given The Second Dream, and with this quest, a whole new species was added: the old enemy of the Orokin and nemesis of the Tenno, the Sentients. These new enemies were fearsome and powerful, and their damage adaptation made them difficult to put down if you didn't come prepared. Then, once the moon was torn from the Void, these Sentients began appearing on these new maps as well, and we fought hard to put them down.

It was a hard fight, but eventually one Tenno managed to take down one of these Sentients, and there, amongst the techno-organic debris and Neurodes, laid a single mod, its golden beam shining brightly against the cold white of Lua. That Tenno crept over to the mod and gingerly lifted it from the ground, and there, in his hands, lay the most beautiful thing they had ever seen:

A Conclave mod, earned through PVE.

Now, I hope you enjoyed that bedtime story, little Nazrethim. Tuck yourself in, and I might just tell you another story of how the Tenno learned of what they truly were.

And from that story you get something important: DE had to create very difficult enemies to drop middle ground Conclave mods. I think I remember someone saying something along the lines of "yes make obtainable from pve as long as it's difficult"

Also, I've seen more people complainig about those mods in that droptable because they make getting VR even more difficult. Imagine if the Silver grove specters had the "- zoom while airborne" and "+ movement speed while aiming" clogging the droptables. 

I have a idea that favors both sides:

-Make all Conclave mods usable in pve.

-Conclave Rank 1-3  mods and common/uncommon  EndofMatch reward mods obtainable from PvE from various surces (Stances as Rathuum rewards for example)

-Conclave high tier mods (rank 4-5) and rare End of Match reward mods obtainable by participating in the Conclave.

-All mods tradable.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Nazrethim

[Fukushu]

25 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

And from that story you get something important: DE had to create very difficult enemies to drop middle ground Conclave mods. I think I remember someone saying something along the lines of "yes make obtainable from pve as long as it's difficult"

Also, I've seen more people complainig about those mods in that droptable because they make getting VR even more difficult. Imagine if the Silver grove specters had the "- zoom while airborne" and "+ movement speed while aiming" clogging the droptables. 

I have a idea that favors both sides:

-Make all Conclave mods usable in pve.

-Conclave Rank 1-3  mods and common/uncommon  EndofMatch reward mods obtainable from PvE from various surces (Stances as Rathuum rewards for example)

-Conclave high tier mods (rank 4-5) and rare End of Match reward mods obtainable by participating in the Conclave.

-All mods tradable.

All Conclave mods usable in PVE? Only if you can also get them in PVE.

Making Conclave mods end of match rewards? I could deal with it, but they could also be potential drops from Spy and Sabotage missions (all three caches found). That way you still need to farm and rely on RNG to get them. As for Rathuum, the end of match rewards are so rare they could use a slight buff in their drops anyway. Why should I waste my time killing 25 level 85 Executioners if I'm not guaranteed a reward that's equal to the effort I put in? I've already made an entire thread on that issue alone.

Make rank 4 and 5 mods only available through Conclave? No. As has been said many, many times before, if it can be used in PVE, it should drop in PVE.

And again with the "trading", always with the trading with you! If they all drop in PVE as well, trade away, but if certain ones stay locked behind PVP, there's no way in Hell I'm giving you any of my plat for those "exclusives".

All in all, your suggestion does not "please both sides"; it's more like a snob throwing scraps to the poor while keeping the best for their own gain.

Stop looking at Warframe with the eyes of a PVP only players and start realizing Conclave is not the soul of Warframe and should not be required for PVE content. I've played games that are primarily PVP with a dash of PVE, and while the PVE gives a tiny amount of what the PVP gives, you need to actually go out and kill some players to get the most of your play time. Warframe, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. A vast majority of the content is available through PVE, while some content should be available through PVP, but with the Conclave mods slowly worming their way into PVE, the only things that should stay locked behind PVP are the skins Teshin has to offer, and even then, those have proven to not be enough to keep players interested.

Locking PVE content behind Conclave or forcing players to buy the mods from those who play Conclave does not sit well with the large PVE majority, and with the Sentient race still being worked on, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually saw a full race that dropped both their own mods and Conclave mods.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Fukushu

[Nazrethim]

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

All Conclave mods usable in PVE? Only if you can also get them in PVE.

Sure, because I can get a Sancti Tigris or a Simulor blueprint without working for New Loka or Simaris.

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Making Conclave mods end of match rewards? I could deal with it, but they could also be potential drops from Spy and Sabotage missions (all three caches found). That way you still need to farm and rely on RNG to get them. As for Rathuum, the end of match rewards are so rare they could use a slight buff in their drops anyway. Why should I waste my time killing 25 level 85 Executioners if I'm not guaranteed a reward that's equal to the effort I put in? I've already made an entire thread on that issue alone.

Rathuum could be made to always reward a Stance, with the pool being ALL stances, both PvE and Conclave.

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Make rank 4 and 5 mods only available through Conclave? No. As has been said many, many times before, if it can be used in PVE, it should drop in PVE.

Look at it like Syndicate Augments and Weapons (which they are, as Conclave IS a syndicate, just a neutral one with it's own gimmick, which is PvP). You either work for them or trade for them. Quid Pro Quo

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

And again with the "trading", always with the trading with you! If they all drop in PVE as well, trade away, but if certain ones stay locked behind PVP, there's no way in Hell I'm giving you any of my plat for those "exclusives".

You are not forced to play Conclave OR trade for them. You DON'T need them, because they are sidegrades or gimmick mods, and not a single one of them is balanced around PvE's inflated numbers and metabuilds.

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

All in all, your suggestion does not "please both sides"; it's more like a snob throwing scraps to the poor while keeping the best for their own gain.

So far I'm the only one doing reasonable suggestions and trying to favor the other side, if you want a reward, you work for it or trade for it. That you don't want to do either of those would be YOUR problem, not a problem with the system.

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Stop looking at Warframe with the eyes of a PVP only players and start realizing Conclave is not the soul of Warframe and should not be required for PVE content. I've played games that are primarily PVP with a dash of PVE, and while the PVE gives a tiny amount of what the PVP gives, you need to actually go out and kill some players to get the most of your play time. Warframe, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. A vast majority of the content is available through PVE, while some content should be available through PVP, but with the Conclave mods slowly worming their way into PVE, the only things that should stay locked behind PVP are the skins Teshin has to offer, and even then, those have proven to not be enough to keep players interested.

I don't look at Warframe as "PvP-only" or "PvE-only" or "Archwing-only" or whatever other "X-only" you somehow think I think. I see Warframe as a whole. Many people hate Archwing, so what? I'm not complaining to DE that something is locked behind AW (which I hope they add eventually, so all those babies can outrage they are "forced" to do archwing for something they want and has effect on "regular" gameplay) oh wait, we already have that, it's the Jordas Veredict Arcanes, which can only be obtained there, trough AW, which many people hate, which few people play, and yet they are still locked behind AW, and you can trade for them. And PvP is not only "kill other players", we have Lunaro, where you don't kill anyone, Teshin himself says "Those awakened who have refused the blood of the Conclave, I call to you". Archwing Racing has also being suggested, again, not a mode where you kill.

9 hours ago, Fukushu said:

Locking PVE content behind Conclave or forcing players to buy the mods from those who play Conclave does not sit well with the large PVE majority, and with the Sentient race still being worked on, I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually saw a full race that dropped both their own mods and Conclave mods.

Sure, why not, clogging the droptables of a faction still in development with stuff that can easily be acquired trough other mode sounds like an awesome idea!

This reminds me of Frankenstein. Remember the monster of Frankenstein?

 

[Nazrethim]

Okay, I promise this is the last thread.

After being pummeled to near death by the Tonkor dudes in the recent Nightwatch Tac Alert I came to realise that it would be awesome to have [Anti-flak Plating] to reduce their Blast damage, and like that there are other cases where a niche Conclave mod would have been helpful or Fun. Conclave Stances and Augments are also Fun to use and may find some niche.

Edit: Also, we now have a new Machete, but no new Machete stance. Since Rending Wind is more comfortable to use than Sundering Weave, I think it's time to make Conclave Stances and other mods usable outside of it's gamemode.

The Suggestion:

Make all Conclave mods usable in PvE.

-End of match reward mods (which are obtained trough RNG) are added to several droptables in PvE (like Sentients, Rathuum and probably Derelict Caches or something, places that don't really have good rewards to begin with)

-Syndicate mods (obtained trough Conclave Syndicate standing) remain obtainable trough Conclave Syndicate Standing (and the standing mods that are already in Sentient droptables are replaced by End-of-match reward mods)

 

I read from several players that Cosmetics alone don't really make Conclave attractive because they would prefer something that can be used in PvE for some build, not just a shiny syadanna or armor or skin.

This suggestion aims to acomplish these:

-Give Conclave utility outside of it's own gamemodes, similar to how you can get non-archwing rewards (arcanes, Atlas warframe) from Archwing content (Jordas Veredict and Eris boss)

-Make some of the rewards (the RNG based ones) a place in PvE's RNG so players who don't like, care or participate in the Conclave can get some of the goodies. Since both rewards are RNG based there's no much of a difference.

-Keeps consistency with the other Syndicate rewards (you can't get a Synd weapon or mod if you don't work for a Syndicate that offers them or trade for them)

Edited October 6, 2016 by Nazrethim
Removed Insult

[TheScytale]

I like conclave mods as well, like the + armor - mobility, or the physical damage conversion ones, they give room for a ton more modding possibilities. However I don't know it's a good idea to include them in PvE drop lists, because when two players play against each other in their first conclave match, they're standing on equal grounds when it comes to mods and equipment. If those same conclave mods were added to PvE, a MR22 player would have an advantage over that newbie, even though it's the first match for both of them.

I don't mind them being added as corrupted mods or something like that, I was even going to post that idea on the forums, then a week later I saw they were available in conclave already.

[V45H]

i want conclave stances too :c

[Nazrethim]

3 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

I like conclave mods as well, like the + armor - mobility, or the physical damage conversion ones, they give room for a ton more modding possibilities. However I don't know it's a good idea to include them in PvE drop lists, because when two players play against each other in their first conclave match, they're standing on equal grounds when it comes to mods and equipment. If those same conclave mods were added to PvE, a MR22 player would have an advantage over that newbie, even though it's the first match for both of them.

I don't mind them being added as corrupted mods or something like that, I was even going to post that idea on the forums, then a week later I saw they were available in conclave already.

Yeah, I also thought about Conclave mods being obtainable trough Conclave only, but then DE added some of those mods to Sentients, so what the hell? But for the sake of reward consistency I would now prefer RNG-obtained mods be allowed in PvE, since it's also an RNG-reward system, and Rathuum is somewhat similar or at least uses the same tilesets and lacks worthy rewards outside of a remote chance to get a stance.

Well, there's recruit conditioning, which disables all rare mods, that is, most of the end of match reward mods, so new players aren't really at much of a disadvantage.

So far the only opposition to make Conclave mods usable comes from people who hate Conclave and don't want to work for rewards nor trade for them  hence the rant at the begining of the thread.

[_Vortus_]

No.   What's done in Conclave stays in Conclave.   Only if they were to drop in PvE should they be allowed in PvE. 

[Nazrethim]

17 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

No.   What's done in Conclave stays in Conclave.   Only if they were to drop in PvE should they be allowed in PvE. 

Read again: RNG rewards drop in PvE-rng tables. The only ones you would have to work for are the Syndicate Rewards, which would work like any other Syndicate.

[----Dante----]

1 hour ago, _Vortus_ said:

No.   What's done in Conclave stays in Conclave.   Only if they were to drop in PvE should they be allowed in PvE. 

as i said in prevorious thread let them drop in pve with 00.01% chance and all ill be fine

[_Vortus_]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Read again: RNG rewards drop in PvE-rng tables. The only ones you would have to work for are the Syndicate Rewards, which would work like any other Syndicate.

 

Then ill restate.   If it cannot be earned running PvE, no.

37 minutes ago, ----Dante---- said:

as i said in prevorious thread let them drop in pve with 00.01% chance and all ill be fine

So those that want those mods from Conclave can farm the PvE version of the mod with that .01 then if it drops for them they can use it.   Now that will work.  Having a PvE version and a PvP version.   Yeah, that would work.

 

[Nazrethim]

As this adorable chart displays:

PvP is slightly less popular than raids (which truth be told are a sh*tshow worse than what Conclave could ever be). So it stands to reason that if something powerful (arcanes) is locked behind a not very played mode then there's no problem to locking something marginally useful behind another not very played mode.

Again, I'm not opposed to RNG obtained Conclave mods being drops in PvE, just the ones obtained trough the Conclave Syndicate Standing. Hell, that 0.001% drop is sadistic, I was thinking something like 5% like all other rare mods placed on enemies that make sense (like Techs dropping the Supra mod, Nightwatch Lancers droping the grinlok mod, and so on) or Sentients or as rewards from tables that don't have worthy rewards yet (like Derelict Sab caches).

IF Conclave Syndicate rewards  obtained trough standing become drops, then by logic all other Syndicate exclusives (Synd weapons like Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Marelok or Synoid Simulor and Syndicate mods like  Gilded Truth or warframe augments) should become drops too. So those who don't want to work for Loka can get Sancti weapons without working for New Loka or trading.

If that last paragraph sounds like madness, well that's exactly what you are asking.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Nazrethim

[EmptyDevil]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

As this adorable chart displays:

PvP is slightly less popular than raids (which truth be told are a sh*tshow worse than what Conclave could ever be). So it stands to reason that if something powerful (arcanes) is locked behind a not very played mode then there's no problem to locking something marginally useful behind another not very played mode.

Again, I'm not opposed to RNG obtained Conclave mods being drops in PvE, just the ones obtained trough the Conclave Syndicate Standing. Hell, that 0.001% drop is sadistic, I was thinking something like 5% like all other rare mods placed on enemies that make sense (like Techs dropping the Supra mod, Nightwatch Lancers droping the grinlok mod, and so on) or Sentients or as rewards from tables that don't have worthy rewards yet (like Derelict Sab caches).

IF Conclave Syndicate rewards  obtained trough standing become drops, then by logic all other Syndicate exclusives (Synd weapons like Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Marelok or Synoid Simulor and Syndicate mods like  Gilded Truth or warframe augments) should become drops too. So those who don't want to work for Loka can get Sancti weapons without working for New Loka or trading.

If that last paragraph sounds like madness, well that's exactly what you are asking.

+1

I agree that it would be ok for DE to put something useful or very nice in Conclave as a reward. DE shouldn't have to tiptoe through a minefield while trying to figure out how to fix AND make Conclave more enticing, without making people that do not like any form of PVP jealous. 

I would be totally fine with seeing Teshin offer these as reward, as long as they can be traded like other syndicate weapons:

 

[Nazrethim]

7 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

+1

I agree that it would be ok for DE to put something useful or very nice in Conclave as a reward. DE shouldn't have to tiptoe through a minefield while trying to figure out how to fix AND make Conclave more enticing, without making people that do not like any form of PVP jealous. 

I would be totally fine with seeing Teshin offer these as reward, as long as they can be traded like other syndicate weapons:

Normally I would say "no weapons" due to not causing a big outrage, but honestly seeing anti-conclave haters whine about any sort of Conclave development, yeah, why not, Simaris is a neutral Syndicate and he has two b*tching weapons. Consistency in rewards. To RNG what belongs to RNG, to Syndicates what belongs to Syndicates.

[Voltage]

9 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

As this adorable chart displays:

PvP is slightly less popular than raids (which truth be told are a sh*tshow worse than what Conclave could ever be). So it stands to reason that if something powerful (arcanes) is locked behind a not very played mode then there's no problem to locking something marginally useful behind another not very played mode.

Again, I'm not opposed to RNG obtained Conclave mods being drops in PvE, just the ones obtained trough the Conclave Syndicate Standing. Hell, that 0.001% drop is sadistic, I was thinking something like 5% like all other rare mods placed on enemies that make sense (like Techs dropping the Supra mod, Nightwatch Lancers droping the grinlok mod, and so on) or Sentients or as rewards from tables that don't have worthy rewards yet (like Derelict Sab caches).

IF Conclave Syndicate rewards  obtained trough standing become drops, then by logic all other Syndicate exclusives (Synd weapons like Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Marelok or Synoid Simulor and Syndicate mods like  Gilded Truth or warframe augments) should become drops too. So those who don't want to work for Loka can get Sancti weapons without working for New Loka or trading.

If that last paragraph sounds like madness, well that's exactly what you are asking.

ok the reason conclave is played less than raids is because of how recruiting raids is (which is getting better thanks to the raid schoolbus and such). Also, people only raid once a day, so that chart representing 1 weekend only displays 9 raids per person assuming they did all 3 each day. Now you have conclave, a game mode that isn't played more than junctions (sad), and it isn't the rewards or cosmetics that don't incentivize people to play it. The problems are:

Connection (need dedicated servers or something)

Balance (MK1 Braton and Link trinity run around melting anything)

Forced gameplay (MUST play every week for the syandana to actually look decent)

Conclave is played less than raids because raids are hard to get into. Conclave isn't hard to start playing, just no one plays it UNLESS THEY ARE BOOSTING REP

 

[DoomFruit]

16 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

IF Conclave Syndicate rewards  obtained trough standing become drops, then by logic all other Syndicate exclusives (Synd weapons like Sancti Tigris, Vaykor Marelok or Synoid Simulor and Syndicate mods like  Gilded Truth or warframe augments) should become drops too. So those who don't want to work for Loka can get Sancti weapons without working for New Loka or trading.

If that last paragraph sounds like madness, well that's exactly what you are asking.

The only reason why I don't get loka weapons is because obtaining loka (and perrin) points would actively reduce my meridian and suda points. So - which syndicate would conclave oppose?

There is also the other issue that PvP gameplay is completely and fundamentally different to PvE gameplay, almost to the point of being a completely separate game. So if we're on this track, how about we introduce some mods which require you to have a rank 50 NC character in Planetside 2? I mean, they're both shooters, right. And you can always trade for them, right?

[Nazrethim]

7 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

ok the reason conclave is played less than raids is because of how recruiting raids is (which is getting better thanks to the raid schoolbus and such). Also, people only raid once a day, so that chart representing 1 weekend only displays 9 raids per person assuming they did all 3 each day.

Conclave has the Discord community which also improves in the area of finding matches. And while people do raid once a day, consider the sucess rate of your average non-premade run. And yes, that represents one weekend, I would like DE to release a chart of say, a full week or maybe a month to have a more accurate info.

Quote

 

Now you have conclave, a game mode that isn't played more than junctions (sad), and it isn't the rewards or cosmetics that don't incentivize people to play it. The problems are:

Connection (need dedicated servers or something)

Then you have Hive Sabotage, that it's the only way to get electric+status mods outside of Baro's visit (and only if he decides to bring them) and it's even less played than Conclave. Player Hosted dedicated servers are on the works.

Quote

Balance (MK1 Braton and Link trinity run around melting anything)

Mk-1 Braton isn't as broken as some people think, yes it's strong, but not broken, you need at least steady aim to make the most out of it. If you see a Trinity with Link, you get the hell away from her.

Quote

Forced gameplay (MUST play every week for the syandana to actually look decent)

That's the whole point of the Syadanna. I honestly would like the other Syndicate Syadannas to work like that, shining depending on daily mission completion and lasting a day with a way to keep it mostly lit the whole week, instead of reseting per mission.

Quote

Conclave is played less than raids because raids are hard to get into. Conclave isn't hard to start playing, just no one plays it UNLESS THEY ARE BOOSTING REP

That depends on region and hour. There are many people who play it for Fun or because they are bored of killing mindless grunts over and over and seek something more challenging to do.

 

1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

The only reason why I don't get loka weapons is because obtaining loka (and perrin) points would actively reduce my meridian and suda points. So - which syndicate would conclave oppose?

It's a neutral Syndicate. If anything, Conclave could follow Simaris path: untradable Weapon blueprint or a tradable built weapon, with the option to get it for platinum in the market.

Quote

There is also the other issue that PvP gameplay is completely and fundamentally different to PvE gameplay, almost to the point of being a completely separate game. So if we're on this track, how about we introduce some mods which require you to have a rank 50 NC character in Planetside 2? I mean, they're both shooters, right. And you can always trade for them, right?

Hello! Archwing my old friend, just equal to the "regular" PvE gameplay! Which definetly doesn't have useful things like Arcanes or a godam Warframe locked behind it! And doesn't use a totally different set of mods and powers!

Conclave has more in common with "regular" pve than archwing has, some people just refuse to play in a way different than "stand still or walk/run a bit mowing down hordes of mindless grunts until the bombards start oneshoting them". If someone signed for the "space ninja" acrobatic shooter/hack&slash the Warframe trailer advertise chances are they are going to see it more in Conclave than in PvE, mostly because Conclave actually encourages to be a space acrobatic ninja. So the "great difference in gameplay" can be boiled down to "some people refuse to master the game's combat system"

Edited October 4, 2016 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

20 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

No.   What's done in Conclave stays in Conclave.   Only if they were to drop in PvE should they be allowed in PvE. 

<3

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

<3

And if you watch closely, you will notice hat Excalibur is trying to block with an invisible sword.

[DoomFruit]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

It's a neutral Syndicate. If anything, Conclave could follow Simaris path: untradable Weapon blueprint or a tradable built weapon, with the option to get it for platinum in the market.

Right, so stop comparing it to loka and meridian.

 

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Hello! Archwing my old friend, just equal to the "regular" PvE gameplay! Which definetly doesn't have useful things like Arcanes or a godam Warframe locked behind it! And doesn't use a totally different set of mods and powers!

Conclave has more in common with "regular" pve than archwing has, some people just refuse to play in a way different than "stand still or walk/run a bit mowing down hordes of mindless grunts until the bombards start oneshoting them". If someone signed for the "space ninja" acrobatic shooter/hack&slash the Warframe trailer advertise chances are they are going to see it more in Conclave than in PvE, mostly because Conclave actually encourages to be a space acrobatic ninja. So the "great difference in gameplay" can be boiled down to "some people refuse to master the game's combat system"

The difference between PvE and PvP gameplay is far greater than than between PvE ground and PvE archwing. This game's core is about players versus hordes of mindless grunts and has been for a very long time now. For a while, at least, archwing was not a dependency for other things - anything obtained through archwing was usable only for archwing (weapons), or was something you found everywhere else (resources, fusion cores). That changed with limbo, atlas and the infested raid, but I'm not exactly trying to defend those either.

 

But in that case, how about we add a crapton more things to archwing which are useable in the base PvE game, and another crapton of things to Simaris which work in both PvE and PvP? That's fair, right?

Edited October 4, 2016 by DoomFruit

[Phasedragon]

To be fair, those mobility mods would be completely unsuited to pve. It'd be better to have their own versions with stats more suited to pve anyway similar thing with most of the others. If that's the only issue there is, there's no need to get defensive.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Phasedragon

[Nazrethim]

17 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Right, so stop comparing it to loka and meridian.

The comparison is still valid in the sense that you need to work for the Syndicate or trade for whatever reward they have, or buy them for platinum in the case of neutral synds.

17 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

But in that case, how about we add a crapton more things to archwing which are useable in the base PvE game, and another crapton of things to Simaris which work in both PvE and PvP? That's fair, right?

I wouldn't mind more AW-obtained stuff being usable outside of it. AW is part of the game, those who want the rewards would either have to work for the rewards by doing archwing or trade for them with other players. It's totally fair.

Both Simulor and Heliocolor are usable in PvP. I really hope DE adds more goods to Simaris that only him can provide so each Syndicate/Gamemode  has it's own set of rewards, therefore the way to get everything on your own without trading would be to experiment all the content DE have created.

[DoomFruit]

50 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

The comparison is still valid in the sense that you need to work for the Syndicate or trade for whatever reward they have, or buy them for platinum in the case of neutral synds.

Not really - the only thing preventing me from working for loka is their opposition to my main syndicate. I don't need to play what's basically a completely different game to rank them up. My loka/perrin items come from a clanmate who picked them, said items coming from us both playing the exact same missions together and only differing in which picture we paint on our backs.

EDIT: and so, until we can get conclave standing by putting another picture on our back and playing the exact same missions that we do normally in the normal game, the comparison is completely invalid.

Edited October 4, 2016 by DoomFruit

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, DoomFruit said:

Not really - the only thing preventing me from working for loka is their opposition to my main syndicate. I don't need to play what's basically a completely different game to rank them up.

That's the gimmick of the original 6 syndicates: You work for A or B, working with A makes B hate you.

Conclave gimmick is PvP

Simaris Gimmick is Synthesis.