Please Add the Ability to See Squad Composition Before Joining

[Tizodd]

A countdown similar to the [Wait for group members] one would be nice when joining a a squad through matchmaking.  For instance, i just joined a public group for the first sortie (radiation hazard).  The group consisted of an Ash and a Saryn...needless to say, I left the group because i'm not in the mood to be Bladestormed and Spored all day.  I suppose leaving the group isn't THAT big of a deal, but it just feels like a waste of time to sit through the loading screen over and over trying to find a workable group makeup.  I could be wrong, but I don't think adding a timer would be too difficult from a programming standpoint, especially since there are already similar timers in the game.

Another example I run into often is Akkad: I want to level a melee weapon for the affinity bonus, but most groups seem to have an Ember, Ash, Equinox, Mirage, Simulor, Tonkor, etc that makes killing things with melee extremely difficult.  It would be nice if we were able to see the group composition first and be asked whether we want to join, instead of immediately loading into a group only to leave it seconds later.

edit: I added this to a post below but I figured I should add it here as well to clear up confusion.  In a radiation sortie, when you get procced with radiation, your attacks damage teammates.  So for aoe frames/weapons, this can be highly counterproductive.  Ash will literally Bladestorm teammates, Saryn will Spore them, Ember will set people on fire, etc.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Tizodd

[artemisfortune]

Oh no! People are using stuff they want!

If it really bothers you, make 3 friends and play with them exclusively. People shouldn't have to cater to what you think the squad should be comprised of.

[Shifted]

what warframe needs:

 

Spoiler

LFG tool:

 

[(PSN)Alphonso-Alonso]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Oh no! People are using stuff they want!

If it really bothers you, make 3 friends and play with them exclusively. People shouldn't have to cater to what you think the squad should be comprised of.

No, no. This is a PvE Co-op community. You clearly miss the point entirely.

We are SUPPOSED to micromanage and shun each other. It's harmless fun to shame a player for using a Warframe or weapon we don't like, it's not like Dev's take it to heart and nerf Warframes and Weapons if players don't care about being shamed by their critics teammates.

Oh wait,..._{Dev's totally do that}

Edited October 3, 2016 by (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco

[ashrah]

that would be abused and ppl would get kik frome game... if not use x frame nah...

[Me.KayOh]

9 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Oh no! People are using stuff they want!

If it really bothers you, make 3 friends and play with them exclusively. People shouldn't have to cater to what you think the squad should be comprised of.

this.

this also reminds me of a dude asking me not to use chaos on akkad. lol. I asked him why and he got emotional about it.

[Tizodd]

29 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Oh no! People are using stuff they want!

If it really bothers you, make 3 friends and play with them exclusively. People shouldn't have to cater to what you think the squad should be comprised of.

Very mature of you.

I prefer to know what frames people are bringing to a mission.  Especially when the mission can be failed or be made unnecessarily difficult because of a bad seed.  I was in a excavation sortie last week where a person said he brings Ash to radiation sorties for fun.  He killed everyone in the group multiple times and he got a kick out of it.  I'd like to be able to avoid people like this instead of joining a group and getting trolled by them.

edit: Also, i never said i wanted people to cater to what I think a squad should be compromised of.  i said I'd like a way to avoid being put into a group I'm ultimately going to leave.  If someone wants to bring Ash or Saryn to a radiation sortie for kicks that's their twisted priority, but I'd rather not be grouped with them.

Learn to read and comprehend before jumping to childish, ill informed conclusions.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Tizodd

[FierceRadiance]

The problem is, this addresses your concerns, but prolly doesn't work for your teammates (or potential teammates). You impose your preferences on them or you take your bat & ball and leave. They could very well want what they want, rather than what you would prefer, and your system doesn't address this (other than the old reliable argument "They might want exactly the same thing I want, so then it would work okay for them"). Yeah, no.

[Tizodd]

48 minutes ago, FierceRadiance said:

The problem is, this addresses your concerns, but prolly doesn't work for your teammates (or potential teammates). You impose your preferences on them or you take your bat & ball and leave. They could very well want what they want, rather than what you would prefer, and your system doesn't address this (other than the old reliable argument "They might want exactly the same thing I want, so then it would work okay for them"). Yeah, no.

Read my edit right above your post.

My intention is NOT to impose my will on others.  My intention is to be able to AVOID them altogether instead of joining their group and aborting.

[RedDirtTrooper]

If you are that picky the option to avoid them already exists. It's called not playing in public mode.

[FierceRadiance]

2 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

Read my edit right above your post.

My intention is NOT to impose my will on others.  My intention is to be able to AVOID them altogether instead of joining their group and aborting.

How is asking for the ability to more quickly and efficiently abandon your team, even if you do it before the level starts, not imposing your will on others?  You're going to run into jerks everywhere, in gaming just like in RL.  It's no excuse to change the game.  Jerks will be jerks.

Just out of curiosity, how would your suggestion avoid running into the player you described?  Sounds like he was just an a$$, which is not currently detectable AFAIK.

[-Kryptyk-]

1 hour ago, Tizodd said:

Also, i never said i wanted people to cater to what I think a squad should be compromised of.  i said I'd like a way to avoid being put into a group I'm ultimately going to leave.  If someone wants to bring Ash or Saryn to a radiation sortie for kicks that's their twisted priority, but I'd rather not be grouped with them.

Learn to read and comprehend before jumping to childish, ill informed conclusions.

"if you're not running what I want you to run, then you're trash, and I'm not going to be around you"

Yes do tell me more about how anyone should cater to that kind of narcissistic thinking.  If you're running on public, then how the hell do you expect everyone to do exactly what you want?  If you want to feed your ego, go to recruiting chat, host a squad, and then you get to make people do what you want.

But seriously, an option like this isn't going to be available for the sole reason that going into public means exactly that.  And you didn't even know what kinds of builds those players were using... the ash could have been using a shurikan/teleport melee build; the saryn could have been using a melee build.  You don't know, and the fact that you assumed anything about those people before even knowing what they were doing still says more about you than anything else.

If going into public is really that much of an issue, go into recruiting chat.  That's how you avoid public.  Simple.  Don't ask for something that already exists.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Firefly0037

[KirukaChan]

Isn't joining a pug for a Radiation Hazard mission sort of like trying to recruit members of the local mohawk syndicate to volunteer at a homeless shelter soup kitchen?

[Solstrome]

Seems like a reasonable request to me, it's not fun to get shanked by your own team members. This is why I don't do pugs and play with people I know or people who at least have a common goal of not killing each other. Having the option to see who's bringing what ahead of time and getting the chance to politely bow out before loading into the game seems like a fine idea.

[Tizodd]

5 hours ago, FierceRadiance said:

How is asking for the ability to more quickly and efficiently abandon your team, even if you do it before the level starts, not imposing your will on others?  You're going to run into jerks everywhere, in gaming just like in RL.  It's no excuse to change the game.  Jerks will be jerks...

 

5 hours ago, Firefly0037 said:

"if you're not running what I want you to run, then you're trash, and I'm not going to be around you"

Yes do tell me more about how anyone should cater to that kind of narcissistic thinking.  If you're running on public, then how the hell do you expect everyone to do exactly what you want?  If you want to feed your ego, go to recruiting chat, host a squad, and then you get to make people do what you want...

I feel like some of you are just looking for an argument for the sake of arguing.  Either that or you're just not too bright.

Instead of putting words in mouth, please take a second to objectively read my post.  Imposing my will on someone would be me telling them how I want them to play.  I'm not requesting that at all...I'm requesting a way to avoid them entirely.  They can bring Ash and Saryn to radiation sorties until their little hearts are content...I just prefer not to be in the group with them wasting my time and getting frustrated because they keep killing the team.

I'm not sure how else I can explain this for you to understand.

[EinheriarJudith]

i see some people are confused. op is not asking about seeing composition while joining hes talking about  seeing it BEFORE joining this helps to avoid possible toxicity like a squad that has 2 mirages using tonkor or simulor. nothing wrong with knowing what you are getting into before you get into it. there is no imposing of anything

id like to know if a squad already has a frost in it or a necros in it helps me when deciding on what frame to bring as well. like having 2 frosts on excavation sure one can spam avalanch while the other defends but imo a different frame could help with squad synergy.

Edited October 4, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[-Kryptyk-]

8 hours ago, Tizodd said:

 

I feel like some of you are just looking for an argument for the sake of arguing.  Either that or you're just not too bright.

Instead of putting words in mouth, please take a second to objectively read my post.  Imposing my will on someone would be me telling them how I want them to play.  I'm not requesting that at all...I'm requesting a way to avoid them entirely.  They can bring Ash and Saryn to radiation sorties until their little hearts are content...I just prefer not to be in the group with them wasting my time and getting frustrated because they keep killing the team.

I'm not sure how else I can explain this for you to understand.

It's not that we don't understand - it's that you're requesting an option for something that only caters to what you want at the expense of an entire matchmaking mode that is working as intended.  If it's public, it's going to be public, and the downside to that is that you're going to get just about anything that's random as far as squad compositions.  We even gave you the way to get around that - recruiting chat or setting it to "invite only" and inviting friends or clanmates.  The fact that you're putting us down, just like the players that were mentioned in the OP, for not agreeing with you further confirms that this is only for your benefit when nobody else is doing what you want them to do.  It's self-centered arrogance, and it's not even remotely close to a team-player mindset at best.  You don't have to verbally tell someone to do anything to impose your will on them - it's a passive aggressive move of imposing will when you avoid them for the exact same reasons.  Doing so conveys literally the exact same message, and you have the same exact intentions, just with a different course of action.

Now, the only way to go about your request, if we're talking objectively without looking at initial intention and mindset, is to have dedicated servers.  That's on DE's radar, but it's only in the beginning conceptualization phases of having those servers be player-hosted.  It would be beneficial, yes, but only for the right intentions and reasons.  You can't look at any decision without looking at the reason behind it.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Firefly0037

[Tizodd]

1 hour ago, Firefly0037 said:

It's not that we don't understand - it's that you're requesting an option for something that only caters to what you want at the expense of an entire matchmaking mode that is working as intended.  If it's public, it's going to be public, and the downside to that is that you're going to get just about anything that's random as far as squad compositions.  We even gave you the way to get around that - recruiting chat or setting it to "invite only" and inviting friends or clanmates.  The fact that you're putting us down, just like the players that were mentioned in the OP, for not agreeing with you further confirms that this is only for your benefit when nobody else is doing what you want them to do.  It's self-centered arrogance, and it's not even remotely close to a team-player mindset at best.  You don't have to verbally tell someone to do anything to impose your will on them - it's a passive aggressive move of imposing will when you avoid them for the exact same reasons.  Doing so conveys literally the exact same message, and you have the same exact intentions, just with a different course of action.

Now, the only way to go about your request, if we're talking objectively without looking at initial intention and mindset, is to have dedicated servers.  That's on DE's radar, but it's only in the beginning conceptualization phases of having those servers be player-hosted.  It would be beneficial, yes, but only for the right intentions and reasons.  You can't look at any decision without looking at the reason behind it.

There's no point in continuing this discussion if you're going to keep blindly stating I'm imposing my will.  But for the last time...avoiding a certain frame entirely is not me imposing my will on them...in fact, it's almost the complete opposite.  The current system is actually closer to imposing my will because I leave the group gimped with only 3 members.  If I had the option of seeing someone was bringing Ash to a radiation sortie, I wouldn't have joined the group in the first place and they would have a full group of people who have fun getting trolled by their teammates.  It's not "self-centered arrogance" at all.  It's me asking for an option to be able to avoid headaches and time wasted.  I don't see an issue with that.  Most human advancement is based on this very mindset.  People got tired of walking so they rode horses; they got tired of their butts hurting and having to jump on a horse so they made the wheel; they decided pedaling was too tiresome so they made the car; etc.  Seeing how something can be made better and more efficient is not "self-centered arrogance".

You didn't "give" me any way to "work around" it either.  I know how to use recruiting.  I was simply requesting a quicker way to avoid certain frames for certain mission types.  A ten to fifteen second countdown before loading into a mission would satisfy this.

Also, if you think i was putting you down, I wasn't.  I was simply making an observation.  I made this observation based on the fact that no matter how many times I tell you I'm not imposing my will on someone, you continue to say I am.  I even gave an example of what it would look like if I truly was imposing my will...yet you still say I'm imposing my will.  An intelligent person would listen to reason instead of simply trying to win an argument.

edit: As I reread some of these replies, I'm beginning to wonder if people understand what happens in a radiation sortie: when you get procced with radiation, your attacks damage teammates.  So for aoe frames/weapons, this can be highly counterproductive.  Ash will literally Bladestorm teammates, Saryn will Spore them, Ember will set people on fire, etc.

Maybe now there's a better understanding of what I'm requesting and why?

Edited October 4, 2016 by Tizodd

[Gilmaesh]

I wouldn't mind something like that. I find it very annoying that mission start without the possibility to cancel in public matchmaking(iam talking when the other squad members are already in mission not in lobby). If it make it possible to preview the team composition, then all the better. So a small countdown that you can skip to do all of the above would be nice. 

By the way,  we had an increase to the timer in solo mode from 4 to 11 sec when there was absolutly no need for it.

[-Kryptyk-]

20 hours ago, Tizodd said:

There's no point in continuing this discussion if you're going to keep blindly stating I'm imposing my will.  But for the last time...avoiding a certain frame entirely is not me imposing my will on them...in fact, it's almost the complete opposite.  The current system is actually closer to imposing my will because I leave the group gimped with only 3 members.  If I had the option of seeing someone was bringing Ash to a radiation sortie, I wouldn't have joined the group in the first place and they would have a full group of people who have fun getting trolled by their teammates.  It's not "self-centered arrogance" at all.  It's me asking for an option to be able to avoid headaches and time wasted.  I don't see an issue with that.  Most human advancement is based on this very mindset.  People got tired of walking so they rode horses; they got tired of their butts hurting and having to jump on a horse so they made the wheel; they decided pedaling was too tiresome so they made the car; etc.  Seeing how something can be made better and more efficient is not "self-centered arrogance".

You didn't "give" me any way to "work around" it either.  I know how to use recruiting.  I was simply requesting a quicker way to avoid certain frames for certain mission types.  A ten to fifteen second countdown before loading into a mission would satisfy this.

Also, if you think i was putting you down, I wasn't.  I was simply making an observation.  I made this observation based on the fact that no matter how many times I tell you I'm not imposing my will on someone, you continue to say I am.  I even gave an example of what it would look like if I truly was imposing my will...yet you still say I'm imposing my will.  An intelligent person would listen to reason instead of simply trying to win an argument.

edit: As I reread some of these replies, I'm beginning to wonder if people understand what happens in a radiation sortie: when you get procced with radiation, your attacks damage teammates.  So for aoe frames/weapons, this can be highly counterproductive.  Ash will literally Bladestorm teammates, Saryn will Spore them, Ember will set people on fire, etc.

Maybe now there's a better understanding of what I'm requesting and why?

there was never a misunderstanding to begin with.  There are a few of us who have been looking at the intentions behind your reasons and are presenting on that level, as core intentions are the direct reason why you request things.  You have been arguing on only the byproduct level, only the actual request instead of taking a step back and asking yourself the real reason why you're presenting it.  That's why there will never be a common understanding between you and the people who are looking beyond the request.  You don't take the time to understand your own core reasoning before presenting it, and when we attempt to shed some light on things, you reject it due to not understanding.  So I'm going to say this one last time for you and leave it at that, so pay attention.

Your initial request came out of a self-centered mindset, one that prevents you from working with what other people have brought.  You're literally jeopardizing an entire matchmaking mode at the expense of your lack of ability to adapt to what other people bring.  There's nothing but selfishness there, and choosing not to work with someone because they brought something contrary to what you want is imposing your will - passive aggressively - by saying unless they do what you want, you won't work with them.  That's also called manipulation.  The system in place right now works exactly as intended - a public match will give you anyone with any piece of equipment that they choose.  The reason recruiting chat exists is for the reason you want: to create a squad of people who will work with you to make a good synergy.

Right now, you're no better than the people who say "I won't play in squads where there's an ember, because she's boring".  It's entirely self-centered, and you refuse to understand all the ways that not only that ember can be played, but how to play WITH her.  As mentioned before, you assumed the ash and saryn's playstyle.  You didn't even get time to learn how to play with them before taking action - self-centered arrogance.  The headache you're trying to avoid is a headache you're only creating for yourself, and it can't be solved by inputting any system, but rather by taking a step back and either learning to use the systems already given to you or re-prioritizing yourself to where you are others-oriented instead of self-oriented.  It's the only way you can thrive in this game and in irl.  An intelligent person learns to understand intentions instead of reasons.

Oh btw, if you're concerned about a bladestorm ash in radiation, there's an easy trick to avoiding it.  Don't run into the radiation.  ~shrug~

 

[Chewarette]

I think atleast the last 5 radiation sorties didn't even have radiation anywhere around the targets...

But I think the idea of being able to change something is still a good one. When I want to tag in a Sortie, Hieracon or whatever and I pick Trinity for example, the simple fact of seeing another Trini in the group will mean I'll have to leave or just do nothing the complete mission.

Would love to have some kind of "buffer area" where you can switch equipment at the beginning of a mission, for a limited amount of time, to allow some coordination without forcing people to look for groups everytime.

[Tizodd]

2 hours ago, Firefly0037 said:

there was never a misunderstanding to begin with.  There are a few of us who have been looking at the intentions behind your reasons and are presenting on that level, as core intentions are the direct reason why you request things.  You have been arguing on only the byproduct level, only the actual request instead of taking a step back and asking yourself the real reason why you're presenting it.  That's why there will never be a common understanding between you and the people who are looking beyond the request.  You don't take the time to understand your own core reasoning before presenting it, and when we attempt to shed some light on things, you reject it due to not understanding.  So I'm going to say this one last time for you and leave it at that, so pay attention.

Your initial request came out of a self-centered mindset, one that prevents you from working with what other people have brought.  You're literally jeopardizing an entire matchmaking mode at the expense of your lack of ability to adapt to what other people bring.  There's nothing but selfishness there, and choosing not to work with someone because they brought something contrary to what you want is imposing your will - passive aggressively - by saying unless they do what you want, you won't work with them.  That's also called manipulation.  The system in place right now works exactly as intended - a public match will give you anyone with any piece of equipment that they choose.  The reason recruiting chat exists is for the reason you want: to create a squad of people who will work with you to make a good synergy.

Right now, you're no better than the people who say "I won't play in squads where there's an ember, because she's boring".  It's entirely self-centered, and you refuse to understand all the ways that not only that ember can be played, but how to play WITH her.  As mentioned before, you assumed the ash and saryn's playstyle.  You didn't even get time to learn how to play with them before taking action - self-centered arrogance.  The headache you're trying to avoid is a headache you're only creating for yourself, and it can't be solved by inputting any system, but rather by taking a step back and either learning to use the systems already given to you or re-prioritizing yourself to where you are others-oriented instead of self-oriented.  It's the only way you can thrive in this game and in irl.  An intelligent person learns to understand intentions instead of reasons.

Oh btw, if you're concerned about a bladestorm ash in radiation, there's an easy trick to avoiding it.  Don't run into the radiation.  ~shrug~

 

You clearly still don't get it.  A person using Ash will kill me if they get radiation procced and use Bladestorm.  The person I mentioned in my example said he uses Ash on radiation sorties because he likes to troll teammates.  Now I ask you...how can I avoid this behavior other than to avoid the player/frame entirely or abort the mission?  To reiterate: some people bring aoe damage frames/weapons to radiation sorties for the sole purpose of trolling other players...this is the reason I would like a way to avoid certain frames in certain missions.  It has absolutely nothing to do with me being self-centered and/or arrogant as you keep repeating.

I gave the other example regarding Akkad as an added bonus of having the ability to avoid certain frames, but it was just a side-note, and not my primary reason for the post.

Now please stop telling me what my intentions are.  I know my intentions far better than you can hope to, especially given the fact that you want to see me as a self-centered, arrogant person who wants to impose my will on everyone.  If you would take the time to read my post objectively and unbiased you'll see I'm not coming from a self-centered arrogant standpoint at all.  I'm simply asking for a more efficient way to avoid being trolled.

edit: As a couple of others have pointed out, a countdown would also help avoid duplicating frames.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Tizodd