Bladestorm rework feedback

[Gameverseman]

20 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

To my knowledge, DE hasn't finalized what Blade Storm will be yet, they only released one of their potential options for it. Until they officially release their set course of action for Blade Storm's rework, there's no use in complaining, "don't nerf Blade Storm because I can't live without a Press-4-To-Instantly-Win ability," because it's not constructive and is only senseless ranting.

The whole reason why DE showed the potential rework was for feedback.... if you think feedback is "senseless ranting" that's your prerogative... nothing more, nothing less.

[Heckzu]

21 minutes ago, KnightCole said:

Wait what? Tankier then maybe Vauban, but tanky?  Not really..Hes not exactly as soft as I first though, but hes not that tough.

Ash and Ash Prime has the second highest hp pool, only beaten by Inaros. In addition to that, Ash Prime has more armor than most frames, and has the Invisibility mechanic, the same one which makes Loki so viable despite having so little health and shields.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Heckzu

[Heckzu]

16 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

The whole reason why DE showed the potential rework was for feedback.... if you think feedback is "senseless ranting" that's your prerogative... nothing more, nothing less.

And I'm sure they've received plenty of feedback, considering that all of the 'feedback' now is mostly the same sentence "don't nerf Blade Storm, and here's a few questionable reasons which have been repeated over and over." This "feedback" should really stop being redundant because redundancy brings no new points into the issue, and instead, should be things such as suggestions on what the reworked Blade Storm should be like, i.e.:

 Blade Storm should work similar to Atlas's Rumblers, where Ash summons specters who have their own AI. Except make these Ash specters initiate on enemies with Teleport and allow them to use Ash's hidden blades, but with all of Ash's melee weapon's mods on them, that way their strength rivals if not surpasses the current Blade Storm, and eliminates the problems the current Blade Storm has: zero interaction due to the ability essentially being a cut-scene, the locking of enemies into a finisher animation and rendering them invulnerable until the animations are over, and the overpoweredness of Ash being invincible while everything else just dies. 

We all know why Blade Storm is getting reworked, so your suggestion:

1 hour ago, Gameverseman said:

IF there's no going back on this "rework" I suggest changing the Bladestorm augment so that it could change Bladestorm back to how it is now.

is a terrible idea and solves nothing, because then there would have been no point in the rework if you can just slap on a mod to gain regain the pre-rework issues.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Heckzu

[Gameverseman]

5 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

And I'm sure they've received plenty of feedback, considering that all of the 'feedback' now is mostly the same sentence "don't nerf Blade Storm, and here's a few questionable reasons which have been repeated over and over." This "feedback" should really stop being redundant because redundancy brings no new points into the issue, and instead, should be things such as suggestions on what the reworked Blade Storm should be like, i.e.:

 Blade Storm should work similar to Atlas's Rumblers, where Ash summons specters who have their own AI. Except make these Ash specters initiate on enemies with Teleport and allow them to use Ash's hidden blades, but with all of Ash's melee weapon's mods on them, that way their strength rivals if not surpasses the current Blade Storm, and eliminates the problems the current Blade Storm has: zero interaction due to the ability essentially being a cut-scene, the locking of enemies into a finisher animation and rendering them invulnerable until the animations are over, and the overpoweredness of Ash being invincible while everything else just dies. 

We all know why Blade Storm is getting reworked, so your suggestion:

is a terrible idea and solves nothing, because then there would have been no point in the rework if you can just slap on a mod to gain regain the pre-rework issues.

Only because the suggested rework has no viability at higher levels with Ash's current energy pool... even with Primed Flow. Your idea is better than the suggested rework but is impractical to develop given how far DE has already gotten with their current rework.... honestly their rework is fine if you take away the fact that you have to mark the target and it's associated cost. This is assuming they implement a damage buff. However, how is it these specters won't put enemies in the same lock the current Bladestorm does?

[Heckzu]

11 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

Only because the suggested rework has no viability at higher levels with Ash's current energy pool... even with Primed Flow. Your idea is better than the suggested rework but is impractical to develop given how far DE has already gotten with their current rework.... honestly their rework is fine if you take away the fact that you have to mark the target and it's associated cost. This is assuming they implement a damage buff. However, how is it these specters won't put enemies in the same lock the current Bladestorm does?

With what DE has showed us, Blade Storm would still lock enemies into an animation, which is why i hope they don't choose that course of action regarding the rework. But still, by having to target the enemies to initiate Blade Storm, you can choose which targets to strike, and which to not strike. One of the common complaints about Blade Storm was that many players were spamming Blade Storm, even onto Ancient Disruptors, locking down the enemies for anywhere from 15 seconds to 5+ minutes (if they legit did nothing but press 4), but if the mark and execute system were put in place, players could avoid such scenarios whereas the current Blade Storm will attack enemies at random which results in the aforementioned scenario. 

[Gameverseman]

14 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

With what DE has showed us, Blade Storm would still lock enemies into an animation, which is why i hope they don't choose that course of action regarding the rework. But still, by having to target the enemies to initiate Blade Storm, you can choose which targets to strike, and which to not strike. One of the common complaints about Blade Storm was that many players were spamming Blade Storm, even onto Ancient Disruptors, locking down the enemies for anywhere from 15 seconds to 5+ minutes (if they legit did nothing but press 4), but if the mark and execute system were put in place, players could avoid such scenarios whereas the current Blade Storm will attack enemies at random which results in the aforementioned scenario. 

Well an easy way to remove the lockout would be to buff Bladestorm to the point where the death of any given mob is more or less instantaneous..... but this is beyond overpowered. Although the marking system is more strategic in that it allows players to alleviate this issue, it doesn't mean they will..... especially the press 4 spammers. Moreover, the game is a bit too fast paced to practically mark targets although it makes sense given the nature and lore of Ash. I think the specters are definitely the right way to go. But I believe there should definitely be an emphasis on damage and lethality with them. Otherwise players might seem them as Ash's Hall of Mirrors.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Gameverseman

[Heckzu]

6 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

Moreover, the game is a bit too fast paced to practically mark targets

That is simply not true. PvE enemies are slow and have very predictable and dumb AI. The only part of the game that can truly be called fast paced is Conclave due to the fact that everyone, allies and enemies, has access to full parkour. From watching the DevStream part on how Rebecca used Blade Storm, it seems that enemies are instantly marked once your crosshair goes over them, which means that if you want to Blade Storm an entire room, all you have to do is press 4 and quickly sweep your mouse to the left or right, and you'll end up marking all enemies in sight. That would only require .25~.5 seconds to do so, so it's as fast as, possibly even faster, than manually targeting one opponent and executing Blade Storm while your crosshair is on that enemy.

[Heckzu]

19 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

I think the specters are definitely the right way to go. But I believe there should definitely e an emphasis on damage and lethality with them. Otherwise players might seem them as Ash's Hall of Mirrors.

Well, to add onto my suggestion, the emphasis on damage and lethality could be done by having the Fatal Teleport augment usable by the specters if your Ash has it equipped. This way, when the specters use teleport, it'll become a fatal teleport, which executes a finisher using the Ash specters' hidden blades as weapons. And if Ancient Disruptors are being attacked by weapon damage from the specters, as opposed to ability damage which we have now, then Disruptors can't reduce the specters' damage and we won't have the issue of perpetual finishing animations. Additionally, if the specters are to gain the benefits of Fatal Teleport, then Ash players would run Fatal Teleport which then promotes the use of Teleport and leading to a larger variety of Ash's abilities being put to use in actual game play.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Heckzu
grammatical error

[Gameverseman]

38 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

That is simply not true. PvE enemies are slow and have very predictable and dumb AI. The only part of the game that can truly be called fast paced is Conclave due to the fact that everyone, allies and enemies, has access to full parkour. From watching the DevStream part on how Rebecca used Blade Storm, it seems that enemies are instantly marked once your crosshair goes over them, which means that if you want to Blade Storm an entire room, all you have to do is press 4 and quickly sweep your mouse to the left or right, and you'll end up marking all enemies in sight. That would only require .25~.5 seconds to do so, so it's as fast as, possibly even faster, than manually targeting one opponent and executing Blade Storm while your crosshair is on that enemy.

True, but who's going to with the added energy cost? So it forces players to take time to mark their targets whilst both not being overwhelmed and whilst not getting blow ups bombards or grappled by ancients or scorpions etc etc.

[Gameverseman]

32 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Well, to add onto my suggestion, the emphasis on damage and lethality could be done by having the Fatal Teleport augment usable by the specters if your Ash has it equipped. This way, when the specters use teleport, it'll become a fatal teleport, which executes a finisher using the Ash specters' hidden blades as weapons. And if Ancient Disruptors are being attacked by weapon damage from the specters, as opposed to ability damage which we have now, then Disruptors can't reduce the specters' damage and we won't have the issue of perpetual finishing animations. Additionally, if the specters are to gain the benefits of Fatal Teleport, then Ash players would run Fatal Teleport which then promotes the use of Teleport and leading to a larger variety of Ash's abilities being put to use in actual game play.

How would energy cost be addressed?

[Heckzu]

3 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

How would energy cost be addressed?

The Blade Storm showed on the Dev Stream supposedly used energy for each mark, so if I had to guess, they'd set to energy cost to 25 per mark, just like how Teleport is 25 energy per cast. Since almost every Ash runs 175% power efficiency, energy cost shouldn't be an issue.

[(PSN)Raider_Duece]

On 10/26/2016 at 2:06 PM, Heckzu said:

With what DE has showed us, Blade Storm would still lock enemies into an animation, which is why i hope they don't choose that course of action regarding the rework. But still, by having to target the enemies to initiate Blade Storm, you can choose which targets to strike, and which to not strike. One of the common complaints about Blade Storm was that many players were spamming Blade Storm, even onto Ancient Disruptors, locking down the enemies for anywhere from 15 seconds to 5+ minutes (if they legit did nothing but press 4), but if the mark and execute system were put in place, players could avoid such scenarios whereas the current Blade Storm will attack enemies at random which results in the aforementioned scenario. 

I really dislike how people say "you just spam Ash" how can you spam a ability that makes you go in animation for 30secs-1min (depending how many enemies n lvl) S#&$tt right now going past 60 waves on odd i bring Mag n spam the S#&$t outta her abilitys but i never got a compliant yet and i was stealing every ones kill literary had 3k at wave 40.

Its part of warframe spamming youre abilitys using one or more abilitys from other frames to be the best squad sorry people this aint CALL OF DUTY ITS WARFRAME you actually dont just walk around you jump wall glide do back flips rolls all that free running parkour you see crazy people doing and you definitely dont go around trying to kill or survive without using youre abilitys 

Probably didnt read my first comment on this post , but hekka master, ancients, corpus tech all are Ash favorite to get stuck bladestorming on. So with that its not just disruptors he gets stuck on and its not really bladestorms fault or Ashes fault DE either wantes it that way or messed up and it should seriously be changed. You should also never bring Ash to that type of enemy infested in particular.

Edited October 28, 2016 by (PS4)Raider_Duece

[aerosoul1337]

As an Ash lover I prefer a full Ash rework instead of just blade storm.
The blade storm rework prototype doesn't solve the current issues for me:
1.The enemies are still invulnerable to others.
2.The camera issue... it zooms in too much, weird fov and Ash is misplaced.
3.Ash's abilities still not synergy well with each other.

There are several solid rework ideas around the forums, some are really creative and require skill to be lethal.

DE stuck in the concept of finisher animations. It ends up something nondescript.

At first I was against "the stance rework", but after reading some solid posts, I saw some ideas with creative abilities synergy, more variations for Ash's play style, and also solves the issues we have now.

But it requires a full rework for Ash.

Edited October 26, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[Gameverseman]

I think if Ash were to have any of his abilities reworked, all of them should be reworked or none at all given how little the suggested rework alleviates gripes players have about how Bladestorm currently works.

[aerosoul1337]

6 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

I think if Ash were to have any of his abilities reworked, all of them should be reworked or none at all given how little the suggested rework alleviates gripes players have about how Bladestorm currently works.

This, almost 1 year ago... very very detailed.

 

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, aerosoul1337 said:

This, almost 1 year ago... very very detailed.

 

Thats one of the best reworks threads around. 

I think DE should hold back the bs rework or deploy it temporarily and release a full ash rework after they are done with TWW. Making a pointless and rushed tweak to an ability is a bad thing, even moreso when it's to a popular frame like ash.

[ssh83]

Standing still and painting target is very UN-Ninja for the super-ninja frame.  Really really dislike this.

[Phaxtolgia]

So I heard there's going to be a rework on Ash's Bladestorm, which everyone saw coming, but no one knew HOW it would be reworked. After I saw a curtailed devstream on the rework, I decided to give my two cents on DE's idea and further expand it.

I know there's already a megathread for Bladestorm, but posting a separate thread tends to attract more attention than a post drowning in other newer posts within a megathread.

For those that don't know, the upcoming rework for Ash's Bladestorm is that now you have to hold down 4, or respective ability button to mark enemies. Only marked enemies will be hit with bladestorm, while the rest is not. There's a problem with this idea however: since you have to hold down the ability button, it tends to restrict your movement, unless you're willing to put your hand in a weird position to move around. For consoles they won't be able to adjust their camera. I think marking enemies should be moved to Ash's 1-3 abilities to solve this problem, so they don't have to hold down a button, while trying to make weird adjustments to move or look around (IF they intend to do so.)

Enemies simply inflicted by Ash's Shuriken, Smoke Screen, or Teleport will be marked. The ability does not need to deal damage to the enemy to mark it. This means Smoke Screen simply has to blind enemies to be marked for Bladestorm, while Teleport only needs to stagger the enemy to be marked (no Fatal Teleport Augment mod required.)

This way players won't be hindered in any way (control-wise,) and gives players a reason to use other abilities more often.

[artemisfortune]

58 minutes ago, Phaxilion said:

I know there's already a megathread for Bladestorm, but posting a separate thread tends to attract more attention than a post drowning in other newer posts within a megathread.

Yeah don't do this.

Also, I don't like your idea. I'm generally interested in having to use 4, and I'm pretty sure they're going to change how it works to where you don't have to hold down 4, but still use 4 to mark enemies (because holding down 4 on a kb+m is a little unwieldy). Your suggestion would have people walking into groups of enemies, casting smoke screen, and then pressing 4. Not to mention it forces you to waste a lot of energy to get the most out of it. With someone like Saryn, spores spread automatically, and she has a huge energy pool, so if you're really building a 4 nuke you aren't having to go through a lot of energy to get there.

[Xekrin]

3 hours ago, Phaxilion said:

I know there's already a megathread for Bladestorm, but posting a separate thread tends to attract more attention than a post drowning in other newer posts within a megathread.

The thing about megathreads versus a dozen smaller threads so they "get noticed more" is yeah they get noticed by those who happen upon it while its fresh and new but then people eventually stop commenting and it gets buried under the newer threads that pop up daily.  

A Megathread, on the other hand, has a significant advantage in that developers are aware of the megathread, moderators can effectively scan a single thread for feedback, compile information from it and so on.  Instead of scouring an entire sub-forum looking for titles similar to the topic they want to check feedback for, opening every new and different thread and searching through what is likely already stated feedback by the same people in several different places.

---

Anyway, If you had checked the megathread you'd know that the 'holding 4 to mark then release' has been widely discussed and most dislike it also.  Quite a few people have suggested precisely what you have as well, allowing his other abilities to act as markers for his 4th to work from.  

---

Chances are this thread will be merged with the megathread anyway so it doesn't really matter a great deal. Merged.

 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Xekrin

[TMNT_WITH_TNT]

Honestly, I think i would have the most fun with ash if his wrist blades were like a seperate weapon, sorta like EB. You would unsheath your wrist blade things and you could press E for a close range attack, you would replace channeling with a ability to teleport and stab an enemy, which would deal damage, as well as knock them down, leaving them vulnerable to a lethal finisher with the wrist blades.

[Gameverseman]

What if Bladestorm became a storm of shurikens inflicting slash procs on all enemies followed by a series of fatal teleports?

[Azrael]

20 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

What if Bladestorm became a storm of shurikens inflicting slash procs on all enemies followed by a series of fatal teleports?

That would allow CL and be stupidly OP.

[Nazrethim]

51 minutes ago, Azrael said:

That would allow CL and be stupdidly OP.

No more op than miramulor or maim.

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

No more op than miramulor or maim.

Yeah, it kinda would be. A guaranteed instant kill on multiple enemies at a time with the press of a button, regardless of level, would be the most op thing in the game. At that point you may as well add a "kill everyone in the level" button.