Bladestorm rework feedback

[(XBOX)Shodian]

Not sure if this has been suggested but instead of holding the button down to target and then releasing to activate I think that tapping the button to give an enemy a mark and then holding the button down to activate it would flow a little more smoothly. 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

10 hours ago, Pyrosicle said:

This rework is going to ruin Ash, just like they did Mesa.

The old Mesa was so cool, a complete badass. When they changed her, they took most of the cool element away.

Now they are going to do this this Ash. The change is going to be impractical. If you have time to mark an enemy, you have time to shoot them. When I was watching them on Devstream playing the changed Bladestorm, I noticed they would be just running past them marking them and then executing it at once. What a waste of time. Instead of marking them, she could have shot them instead. Manual aiming will make it much tougher to play, impractical and I believe it will be a large nerf.

Bladestorm does need to change a little bit, but they don't have to completely change it. They should just make the marked enemies killable and have an option to exit Bladestorm early.

Ash is my main, and since I never build him around his Bladestorm it won't really change much for me. Like with Mesa, it only hurts Ash users that don't have skill and only spam his nuke. I think this hurt Mesa (my opinion) because no one felt she was worth the frame slot without it, due to her other abilities so they depended on her OP 4th power. 

With Ash I rarely use his 4th power because i have use for his other 3 commonly. I mainly use bows in my primary weapon slot for most frames, especially Ash (another reason Mesa was never a favorite of mine) so I can do immense damage to enemies in a straight line but i can't spray shots across the field. With his new 4th power rework I can easily mark large groups in a horizontal line to take them out when my bow isn't an option and when I'm not already in the fray using melee (which would be most common for me as Ash). 

I don't know if you watched the devstream but she marked enemies incredibly fast. Just hold down the button and swing your cursor across the screen and let go. Everyone that your cursor passed over was automatically marked and then attacked once the button was released. I don't see it being an issue for anyone that actually plays Ash instead of playing the all too common game with many frames of "Who can press number 4 the most". 

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Another BS thread.  Full of BS posts.  XD

Edited October 13, 2016 by sushidubya

[(XBOX)EntrTheLight]

Alright so back on topic... what are your thoughts on my rework idea?

I know it wont happen as he is getting a change already, but that doesnt stop creativity.

Edited October 13, 2016 by (XB1)SAOxSonicKirito

[LunarEdge7]

11 hours ago, ZombieLorde91 said:

A funny thing I've always thought of... why not make the Blade Storm target only 1 enemy but he ninja slashes the ever loving **** out of that target really fast and really hard from different directions? Keep Ash invulnerable but the target stunned and well... dying.

Slightly increase the damage potential... maybe by actually allowing melee mods to affect Bladestorm? Currently only very few melee mods affect it.

Ash is based on ninjas... which are assassins in feudal era Japan... so it would make since that it be a very strong offensive ultimate.

I've thought of that too. But then there are a lot of people who might be against that idea. They want BS to still do what it does, but remove the invulnerability period enemies go through. Which, I think if they do that again, will glitch and bug Ash like it did before they applied the invulnerability period.

My solution is simple and clear, make it toggled, cancel-able after a few Blade Storms, not last forever until the enemy dies and/or let it drain energy over time finishing enemies to emphasize on not spamming it.

Maybe buff its dmg to balance the "nerf".

The BS change they're making now, I actually look forward to. Just wish you could also cancel/stop doing finishers on marked enemies halfway through. (As in halfway through a finisher, you press 4 again and your clones and you will stop Blade Storming and just let the BS'd enemies bleed to death.)

 

[PrVonTuckIII]

Aside from the fact that there's no need for this, why the hek is Ash Prime getting this, and not Ash? There's supposed to be zero difference in Prime and normal frames.

[Azamagon]

A very simple idea:

Why not let enemies struck by Shuriken be additional targets for Bladestorm (only attacked by Shadow clones though)? These marks should still count towards the "max amount of targets markable per cast" of course.
Considering the homing properties of Shuriken, that'd give some ease of use for players with controllers along with giving the two abilities some synergy.
Smoke Screen is already useful (Smoke => Safe targetting with BS). And as others have said: Make Bladestorm a togglebased ability: "Toggle on - Mark enemies - Toggle off to attack", rather than a hold-based ability, further helping those with controllers.

Teleport needs something extra though. Like, a brief, but powerful melee attackspeed bonus after use? Do the finisherstun in an area around the place you land? Make it freeaim (and freeaim teleporting targetting a wall = short autowall-latch?)

[shindame]

This rework is essentially a modified Fatal Teleport. I don't see the point in it, other than nerfing the Bladestorm mechanic just for the sake of it. Yeah, it IS a nerf since currently, it's a hands-free instakill AOE. You have to hold 4 and drag your reticle to mark - lemme guess, there's potential for shoehorning in a delay for marking a target. I have a feeling there's gonna be a delay for each mark. I'd be okay if it's not a hold skill. I'd rather see it as hands-free channel targeting like Focus (5) usage.

[(XBOX)EntrTheLight]

3 hours ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Aside from the fact that there's no need for this, why the hek is Ash Prime getting this, and not Ash? There's supposed to be zero difference in Prime and normal frames.

Sorry force of habit lol. Both would recieve this update.  

[McBalth]

I'm wondering about the marking draining energy. Since this is going to take time to mark targets, if a marked target dies before you activate bladestorm, do you get the energy refunded since you didn't use bladestorm on him, or are you just out of luck ifthe enemy dies? making the ability slower and more cumbersome to use, plus making it so allies can make it a waste of your enegy really seems like you are saying don't bother with #4, use the other abilities. I guess it could also be trying to deter players from using ash in the first place. I know some players see bladestorm as brokenly-op, but there are many abilities that simply nuke large areas or become major force multipliers. I could see toning down the damage by reducing or eliminating the bonuses inherited from ash's melee weapon, this would make it not always an instakill on every target in range. 

All of that said, I liked the option to hit an "oh S#&$e" button in case of emergency, though i personally enjoyed working my way around via 'fatal teleport'. The other major time i'd bladestorm other than when being overwhelmed was to cover for someone reviving a downed player.

[Azrael]

27 minutes ago, McBalth said:

I'm wondering about the marking draining energy. Since this is going to take time to mark targets, if a marked target dies before you activate bladestorm, do you get the energy refunded since you didn't use bladestorm on him

yes. They covered this in the stream when they showed the ability.

[Nazrethim]

On 11/10/2016 at 4:46 PM, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

-snip-

While it's not a nerf in the literal sense, the change doesn't really solve anything other than switching the issue "Press42Win" to "Annoying targeting system"

Other issues DE didn't even mention:

-Shuriken tracking is cr*p

-Shuriken is still pretty much pointless outside of it's augment's effect

-Smoke Screen is going to be the same "invisibility with stun" instead of an actual smoke screen

-Teleport has been officially made 100% pointless by comparison to the new bladestorm (since they are going to buff damage, why cast teleport at all?)

-Ash's abilities will still be sh*t in Conclave

-DE pretty much murdered the idea of synergy or confused it with "Use invisibility Smoke Screen to not get killed while you try to mark targets who aren't close to a nullifier or that haven't been killed by your squad mates with miramulors"

-The ability, other than adding a seemingly annoying target system, is exactly the same camera sh*tshow.

So yeah, while not a nerf per se, it's not really a good or meaningful change, and they will probably leave Ash to rot after that because they will probably file it as a "rework" instead of "power tweak" and will never adress all the other stuff I listed.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

20 hours ago, Profit62 said:

Great ideas an to help with shuriken,it would be cool if he threw a barrage of shuriken like in ninja assassin.  It would be great in high level gameplay, and that way we don't have to worry  about the targeting bugs and still be able to hit  multiple targets

That's a terrible idea since each shuriken will deal extra damage from his passive.

Also in the movie, it was multiple assassins throwing the shurikens so therefore a ninja can't throw that many unless modded with firerate and fast reload.

[Renovakunumaru]

On 10/11/2016 at 3:31 PM, SolaireTheSunWalker said:

How is Ash getting a nerf?

Currently Ash can target 18 enemies that doesn't include LoS For as Low As 25 energy.

Unless this new method charges less than 2 energy per mark then its an efficiency nerf. Since its LoS now, its also a considerable nerf to range as your are limited to enemies in your forward perspective. 

Since the AI doesn't determine how many times a target must be hit to kill its as you will target an enemy thinking you will kill it only to have it shoot you because you didn't provide enough marks . Also, the only effective manner to launch this technique is through smokescreen now as Reb demonstrated, or prepare to be killed. The effective power build Ash players use will be neutered for duration.

A rework was necessary but this rework doesn't make sense. It just makes bladestorm harder to cast and less effective rather than intuitive and engaging.

[DasBlues]

DISCLAIMER: ALL OF THIS IS MY THOUGHTS ON THE PROPOSED REWORK, NONE OF THIS IS MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE OR BASH ANYONE AT ALL. THANK YOU!

That said, lets get started on my thoughts about the Ash "rework" why not? First of all I think that this "rework" is pointless, now before you start saying "It's to stop the 4 Spam" or "Get good" listen please. I love playing Ash (Prime is my used WF) and I just cannot stand how slow and boring his ult is. I don't usually press 4 to win unless my team needs cover when reviving someone or something like that. But from the likes of the demo from Devstream 81 It seems that DE doesn't really understand some of the other smaller but still important problems with Ash so I'll list some of them.

-They still kept the same boring and slow ult animations

-They still didn't add ANY synergy besides Smokescreen then Press and Hold/Toggle (if changed) 4

-Shuriken is still useless compared to everything else
 - Damage is low

 - Tracking is not very accurate 

 - Other abilities COMPLETELY outshine it

As I said these are some of the ones I can think off the top of my head, there are probably 1 or 2 more problems. But the point of this is it seems like DE hasn't learned that Ash's bladestorm isn't the only problem, it's the entire kit synergy itself. The only reason people use ash is because it's so easy to kill a lot of enemies without even trying and to be completely honesty it's not fun at all pressing one button only. DE has fixed the easy part but has forgotten that Ash needs to be fun also, that's why I think DE needs to go back and revise a newer kit for Ash, one where one ability is supposed to outshine the others (ult) but not so much to the point where all synergy and general fun is just gone. Ash to me is a warframe that is centered around killing enemies effectively and efficiently while also being able to stealth in and out of the fight.

Please remember these are MY thoughts on the rework, any and all content in this feedback post is not meant to just bash DE at all. If you also have thoughts please leave them in the comments respectfully. 

P.S My grammar isn't the best in this thought as English is a second language to me, sorry for the inconvenience

Edited October 14, 2016 by DasBlues

[GinKenshin]

kinda agree with you, it seems it's easier and faster to just focus on the 'main problem' and forget about the rest, same thing with nekros, desecrate and SotD were the biggest issues to DE and that's what they touched, have synergy with his other abilities doesn't really matter anymore I guess 

and tbh, this whole thing DE went for, the 'marked for death' is plain boring and dumb (no offense). I really expected more of this 


also to add to the changes of BS, let it use the melee mods, since people will still bring an ash to a 'weapon' only sorties, which is total bull since every other ability like BS (aka: involves some kind of a weapon) takes in the mods from the weapon we have on. it'll still have finisher dmg, just make it scale off of pressure point and mods like that, attack speed is already there

[Tsoe]

if only they could buff shuriken giving it some utility and remove the tracking system as trade of

if only they make teleport not needing target

if only they make smokescreen a real smoke screen (and ash actually turning into smoke) giving all mobs aiming at you -50% accuracy and giving Ash 50% damage reduction

that would enlarge the gape between Ash and Loki and would make Ash actually fun to play

i would play Ash with joy in the heart

Edited October 14, 2016 by Tsoe

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

Ash needs to be made to require skill on all aspects of his gameplay without crippling him, beyond all else. It's irresponsible to leave him as is, but it's a very temperamental position to be in because he's a fan-favorite and needs proper care and justice done to his rework. Anything less than a proper alternative to spam-4-to-win will be a slap in the face to die-hard fans.

[Kappa64]

On 10/12/2016 at 5:33 PM, S.C. said:

I'd say it'd make it about just as obsolete as Valkyr's Ripline ability or Zephyr's Tail Wind. And it can easily be balanced by changing the energy cost depending on target or no target.

And press 4 to win abilities generally have a much larger area of effect, like, for example, current Ash. Nova being another great example. And anything that would be 'off' about the toggle could, once again, easily be fixed by changing up the energy cost per second vs energy cost regained per combo. So you'll have, like, a race against time kind of situation. Similar to trying to keep yourself alive with Life Strike while getting swamped with enemies.

So I don't think what you're saying is quite accurate.

What I'm saying is that if every frame has a "press-4-super-mode" then it's no different than them having what they had before. There would be no variety whatsoever.

[StealthyCARNAGE]

6 hours ago, Kappa64 said:

What I'm saying is that if every frame has a "press-4-super-mode" then it's no different than them having what they had before. There would be no variety whatsoever.

Well, out of the current 30 frames, about 6 have exalted abilities. So I'm not quite sure, but I think one more is still pretty darn far from every frame. Nor is it going to remove any variety whatsoever.

[Klayms]

My Ash Rework Idea:

Shuriken: Fine as is (maybe change animation a bit).

Augment: Leeching Stars: the shurikens stick to the targets making the bleed damage on the target heal Ash for % of the damage. (Could also make bleed procs from other sources heal ash). Power strength increases the % healed and duration increases the amount of time the shuriken stays on the target.

 

Smoke Screen: Ash throws down a smoke bomb which staggers enemies and increases avoidability on Ash and allies in the smoke screen, the closer the enemy is to you while in the smoke screen the higher chance of the enemy hitting. Power duration is increases how long the smoke screen is in place and range increases the radius of the smoke screen and the radius of the emeny accuracy rate. (Lets say Ash has 100% avoidablity while in smoke screen at a 20m active radius, while enemies are past 20m they wont be able to hit ash or allies in the smoke screen but when they come closer the % chance to hit will become higher based on power range. aka the higher the power range the closer the enemies can come with lower hit accuracy).

Augment: Traveling Smoke: Smoke screen has an extremely reduced radius but it now travels with Ash.

 

Teleport: Fine as is just change the animation and maybe make it teleport behind the target.

Augment: Shadow Slip: Teleporting to an ally turns Ash and/or the ally invisible for set duration. Power duration increases the invisibility duration.

Shadow Steal: When teleporting to an enemy Ash steals something from the target based on the target and gains a buff. Power strength increases amount stolen and duration increases buff duration. Power Strength increases the stolen amount and duration increases the buff duration. (could also be based off of codex entries

Shielded Target: Gains an overshield based on amount of shields stolen.

Armor: Gains increased armor based on armor stolen.

Non-Armor: Gains health based on health stolen. (Could heal and/or increase base health).

 

Marked for Death: Ash marks all targets (or set amount) within a radius for death making all melee attacks on these targets finishers (includes allies) with increased damage and guaranteed bleed proc. Ash's finishers will do the bladestorm animation and create up to 2 clones to attack 2 other marked targets. Casting teleport on a marked target will perform the finisher from range and teleporting you to the corpse after the animation (could also cost less energy on marked targets). Power strength increases finisher damage and bleed damage, range increasing the cast range and radius of the ability and duration increases the amount of time the target is marked.

Augments: Slowing Shadows: Marked targets are slowed for a % but the ability has increased cost rate and/or reduced radius.

Marked Knowledge: Reduces Shields/ armor/ max hp based on the targets. (Could be affected by codex entries aswell).

 

Feel free to say you like it or hate it and/or improvements. This is just what i think will be nice for Ash to make him more of a team player and not some ashhole stealing everyones kills because even as an Ash main i know the feels of being ashholed by another player. I wasnt really going to say anything about my ideas for Ash improvements/rework but i really really do not like the new idea for bladestorm. btw i havent read anyone elses improvements/reworks so if i have suggested ideas already rejected then by all means say so and im sorry.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, S.C. said:

Well, out of the current 30 frames, about 6 have exalted abilities. So I'm not quite sure, but I think one more is still pretty darn far from every frame. Nor is it going to remove any variety whatsoever.

The 3 Exalted melee weapons we have are almost the same because DE choose to make them that way. Ash was the FIRST warframe with his own signature weapon, it's natural. The problem from what I can see troughout all exalted bladestorm reworks is the same: it's exactly the f*cking same as EB or Hysteria,  players need to make it different mechanically from the "mindlessly mash E to win" that the other exalted weapons are.

Now on the topic.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, S.C. said:

As probably quite a few others, I'm not too big of a fan of what was demo'd during the 81st livestream.

While I think the idea of making Bladestorm require more user input is not fundamentally bad, it's kinda not enough. All it really does in the end is make the ability more cumbersome to use but doesn't actually do anything to make up for it. It's just a nerf, and nothing else. And considering that in the current state his 4 basically carries his kit... yeah. So seeing how his other abilities could also use some changes, might as well, right?

Absolutely agree, the "rework" (actually a targeting tweak) is not bad per se, but doesn't really solve ANY issue Ash has other than "press42win" by replacing it with an annoying targeting system, which pretty much makes Teleport pointless.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, S.C. said:

So without further ado, let's get to it:

Shuriken - Too be honest, I'm not quite sure how to change this one (bad start, I know). I only have, like, a vague idea. That would be to change it into something similar to the Glaive in Dark Sector (the game, not the mode in Warframe), and let's you take control of it. Overall, it would work like this: You'll throw a single, highly spammable projectile with the same basic targeting as it has now. Just by holding the button for half a second, or whatever, longer you'll be able to "assume direct control" of your current projectile. Controls work the same as Ivara's Navigator ability (mayhaps even with the same or similar bonuses/multipliers). Pressing the ability button again will result in the Shuriken detonating, causing damage in a certain radius. Furthermore, should the control aspect come with damage multipliers, similar to Navigator, the detonation will also benefit from said multipliers. For balance's sake, it could also work more like Equinox' maim, where it 'stores' up more damage the more damage is done. Range could, for example, also be increased by it. Lastly, Shuriken benefits from melee mods.

That could be interesting, though you would need to hide. Remember, Ash is NOT a squishy frame that relies on hiding like Ivara, Ash is a melee frame that can go with stealth or go full on battle. Having to hide out of enemy reach to control Shuriken would be even more annoying than what BS tweak will be.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, S.C. said:

Smoke Screen - This one is a bit less thorough. Simply put, the ability becomes recastable and the augment innate. Meanwhile, the new augment would remove the ability to recast but in turn either A: allows you to perform a certain action (for example: headshots, crits, etc.) in order to extend duration and not require energy; or B: allows you to maintain a certain state (for example: don't lose x amount of shield, keep your stealth kill multiplier, etc.) in order to extend duration and not require energy.

Not really like this one, it's still invisibility with a stun, and making the Augment inate IMO is a no-no unless the new augment is really interesting.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, S.C. said:

Teleport - This change is even smaller and is simply an addition to the targeting systems. That is, pressing and holding the button will allow you to directly teleport to whatever place you're currently aiming at. No target required.

Simpler solution: Teleport to surface you are aiming, which could be a wall, another location or an enemy's face. Stun (open to finisher) enemies in a short radius (about 2-3m)

No hold mechanic required.

On 12/10/2016 at 4:57 PM, S.C. said:

Bladestorm - And finally, the crux of the whole change. This actually has two parts to it. Firstly, it's changed into a toggle ability. So when you toggle it on, much like Excalibros Exalted Blade or Valkyrs Hysteria ability, doing so will reveal your assassin blades, whatever. Difference is, rather than having a normal melee mode, pressing melee will cause you to teleport to to your target and perform a Bladestorm finisher animation. After the animation is performed, you'll get a little combo window, just like Atlas' Landslide ability. Attacking another target while the window is open will allow you to regain some of your energy and also grant you the usual bonuses. Additionally, should previous targets still be alive, they'll be atacked by up to two clones. So while you jump to a next target, a clone will appear and atack the previous target. Jump to another one, and your first target will be jumped by a second clone, while your second target will be jumped by your first clone. So they'll basically follow you around like a pair of ducklings, taking apart everything you pecked at first (god i'm so punny muhahaha). Alternatively, you could also just spam one target, causing you to take turns with your two clones to butcher one guy. The second part is essentially what DE has shown during the stream. The interesting part about this is that it works completely independently of whether you're toggled in or not, kinda like a second passive. So by holding right click you'll mark targets, and by holding the ability button you cast it. As an example, you could use it in the middle of a firefight, or you could also be toggled in, then mark one group of dudes and have your clones slaughter them, while you yourself combo-pounce from one guy to the next in another direction. So you have something like internal ability synergy with that.

The idea is not "internal ability synergy" but his abilities synergizing with each other while not making any of them a mandatory active. Toggles encourage having them on all the time. The attacking mechanic you propose essentially makes mindless E spam the go-to, we have 3 f*cking exalted weapons with mindless E-spam. The go target by target seems good on paper but is actually worse than what DE has in store as you will BS one target at a time. The second part just makes the first part pointless, and given your description, the likely scenario will be full effi metabuilds that rely on casting BS, mark targets and let the copies do the dirty work, like a ninja-ish version of Mesa's peacemaker.

 

For the whole kit: How does it exactly work in Conclave?

I recomend you to read this useful thread and rethink and work on your idea:

 

[StealthyCARNAGE]

11 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

That could be interesting, though you would need to hide. Remember, Ash is NOT a squishy frame that relies on hiding like Ivara, Ash is a melee frame that can go with stealth or go full on battle. Having to hide out of enemy reach to control Shuriken would be even more annoying than what BS tweak will be.

Well, the idea is that you could use it either way and not be restricted whether you want to go fast paced or stealth. And Ninja's are kind of stealthy focused, no matter how you look at it.

13 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Not really like this one, it's still invisibility with a stun, and making the Augment inate IMO is a no-no unless the new augment is really interesting.

The idea behind that is to give it something to further differentiate it from Loki's invisibility. Because I don't really think that adding a mini stun is really something someone would want over Loki's increased duration. And because Smoke Shadow is so situational I'm not really convinced it's really worth the augment slot.

21 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Simpler solution: Teleport to surface you are aiming, which could be a wall, another location or an enemy's face. Stun (open to finisher) enemies in a short radius (about 2-3m)

No hold mechanic required.

The reason I went for hold is because of how wonky free ability targeting can be at times. Your solution would basically make it so that you'd have to carefully take aim when you're trying to target a specific dude, which would actually force your pace to slow down. But with a hold mechanic on top you'd be able to choose whether you want to specifically use it in combat or to traverse the map.

27 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

The idea is not "internal ability synergy" but his abilities synergizing with each other while not making any of them a mandatory active. Toggles encourage having them on all the time. The attacking mechanic you propose essentially makes mindless E spam the go-to, we have 3 f*cking exalted weapons with mindless E-spam. The go target by target seems good on paper but is actually worse than what DE has in store as you will BS one target at a time. The second part just makes the first part pointless, and given your description, the likely scenario will be full effi metabuilds that rely on casting BS, mark targets and let the copies do the dirty work, like a ninja-ish version of Mesa's peacemaker.

Well, in my headcanon, it worked actually more like Atlas' Landslide, really. Just with the energy consumption vs gain being a very important aspect of it. So, like, the more energy you consume the more energy you regain and vice versa. So efficacy builds will only be marginally effective.

Umm, well, on the topic of mindless spam...: Primal Fury works essentially like a normal melee, Exalted Blade is a melee with passive long range attacks and Hysteria is a melee with invincibility on top. While this would be, not even a proper melee and more of a combo charge attack. Moreover, you actually need to aim at people for it to work.

The second bit is really just trying to incorporate DE's idea. Which is in order to prevent encouraging people from keeping it toggled on at all times and give you freedom of choice. And again, balancing can easily be done by fiddling with time it takes to mark, duration of marks, range of marking ability, line of sight, multi marking, etc. So in the end it might be more realistic to use it mainly against priority targets, for example.

Nor did I really try to revolutionize the entire thing or anything, but merely update it a little to match the current state of the game.

53 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

For the whole kit: How does it exactly work in Conclave?

I have to admit though that I'm completely clueless on this part. The only time I ever played Conclave was when it was first introduced to the game, a few years ago. Lost interest after a few rounds and never bothered with it again. I don't even know how most current abilities work in it.

So as you can probably imagine, I have absolutely no clue how to balance anything around that.

[radastir]

I think the new BS needs to be cast off more quickly to be able to match up with the fast pace of the game.

My suggestion would be that the clones should already attack the marked targets while the player is still in the marking process. Ash himself would then attack the surviving targets when the marking is done.

Edited October 14, 2016 by radastir

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, S.C. said:

Well, the idea is that you could use it either way and not be restricted whether you want to go fast paced or stealth. And Ninja's are kind of stealthy focused, no matter how you look at it.

Ninjas are all about stealth, Hollywood ninjas are as much about stealth as direct combat, Ash is inclined to the latter. But the navigator shuriken looks nice.

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The idea behind that is to give it something to further differentiate it from Loki's invisibility. Because I don't really think that adding a mini stun is really something someone would want over Loki's increased duration. And because Smoke Shadow is so situational I'm not really convinced it's really worth the augment slot.

Smoke Shadow is worth, as long as you don't use Narrow Minded, because unlike what many believe, Smoke Shadow range is affected by power range. Honestly I think DE made the augments for people who don't use Corrupted Mods. I would like your idea if you added a Smoke Screen Augment to replace Smoke Shadow.

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The reason I went for hold is because of how wonky free ability targeting can be at times. Your solution would basically make it so that you'd have to carefully take aim when you're trying to target a specific dude, which would actually force your pace to slow down. But with a hold mechanic on top you'd be able to choose whether you want to specifically use it in combat or to traverse the map.

Not really, since it's would be a 3m AoE stun, so you could teleport to your objective or right beside him/her and execute it and then get out with a quickaimed teleport somewhere else. It mostly boils down to how good is your aim on the move, if you are used to stand still to aim you may find problems, but if you are used to fast paced battles where you parkour and shoot at the same time aiming a 3m radius finisher opener should be a cakewalk.

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Umm, well, on the topic of mindless spam...: Primal Fury works essentially like a normal melee, Exalted Blade is a melee with passive long range attacks and Hysteria is a melee with invincibility on top. While this would be, not even a proper melee and more of a combo charge attack. Moreover, you actually need to aim at people for it to work.

And that's why BS shouldn't be about mashing a key until something dies. Imagine if the window not only featured having to aim but also a randomly selected E-R two-key system. Aim>BS>E or R show up >press the right key it continues, press the wrong key it stops.

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Nor did I really try to revolutionize the entire thing or anything, but merely update it a little to match the current state of the game.

I see.

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I have to admit though that I'm completely clueless on this part. The only time I ever played Conclave was when it was first introduced to the game, a few years ago. Lost interest after a few rounds and never bothered with it again. I don't even know how most current abilities work in it.

EHP (effective hit points) in Conclave:

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A quick summary of Ash in Conclave:

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Passive: Nothing

Shuriken: 25 energy cost. 30p Puncture damage per shuriken, no Bleed, wonky tracking that works 30% of the time unless you have good aim. Casting it at pointblank causes it to go into walls, ceiling, floor or past your target.

Smoke Screen: 35 energy cost. Lasts 5s. Increases Mobility by 0.1 (that's like 10% bulletjump). Breaks if you attack, take enough damage, collect any pickup or sneeze. You are partially visible unless you use Black Energy. Tear Gas (Augment) blinds enemies in 3m radius who are looking at you for 3s.

Teleport: 25 energy cost. Teleports you to your aimed target, slightly faster casting animation than in PvE. Does nothing to the target.

Blade Storm: 100 energy on cast, the cast goes off when you press the button, if you don't aim or are out of range you waste the energy. About 5m effective range. About 150-200 Conclave Finisher (ignores armor but not shields) damage. Has a "soft-lock" which means you don't need pinpoint accuracy, though is rather wonky so you better have pinpoint accuracy in practice. Overall the weakest offensive ultimate on the whole Conclave.

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So as you can probably imagine, I have absolutely no clue how to balance anything around that.

There you have data. Hope you find it useful ^_^

Edited October 14, 2016 by Nazrethim