body diversity in lady frames

[tnccs215]

51 minutes ago, kasalaba said:

I know right? The lore excuse is just too lazy, if you ask me. The DE could make any type of frame and support it by lore. Female looking ones included.

That's another thing. Truth is, since there isnt nothing explicitly saying that warframes abide to our gender beauty standards, and since DE have (for the better and the worse) always put rule-of-cool over lore, there is nothing preventing them from putting large, bulky female frames in the game.

I mean we have Inaros for crying out loud, that guy isn't attractive even by male beauty standards, how can we expect for them to enforced?

[Ibro156]

1 hour ago, Achaix said:

Oh, right. Still, you have to wonder what kind of standards the Orokin had if they saw scarred children as monsters and technocytic golems as beautiful.

It was more about the fact that kids had newly found powers from the void that they didn't understand. Some of kids even badly hurts their cares. For example, the woman from Ember Prime's Codex and Marglius.

[(PSN)skip2435]

I wouldn't mind a tanky female frame or two but I also agree with the argument about the different body types compensating the frames power and honestly I don't really care how DE handles female frames as long as they are powerful or useful for that matter.

[Blakrana]

3 hours ago, Achaix said:

Oh, right. Still, you have to wonder what kind of standards the Orokin had if they saw scarred children as monsters and technocytic golems as beautiful.

I suppose part of it may be more down to whether they could control them than anything else.

Children with uncontrollable powers and no real particular grasp of them, endangering those around them? A problem to be resolved/disposed of.

Designed weapon systems that can be controlled and directed? These can be useful.

And this is before we start wondering just what the Orokin deemed 'human' and thus 'valuable', what with part of Ballas' argument against the Tenno being their supposed loss of humanity. Considering this comes from an individual with physical improvements to have symmetrical features, flawless skin etc...trying to base any argument on the Orokin definition of 'Humanity' would be somewhat farcical.

I mean, on the simple grounds of symmetry, the Orokin would instantly flag the Uncanny Valley if that's, as I interpret, to mean facial symmetry. Something that the human face is not and any 'symmetrical' faces are just really close, not truly symmetrical. Certainly something I'll be disappointed about being missing if we ever see an actual Orokin, be it past or present...Personally, that's what I find most ironic about the Orokin really; their inhuman description and natures, whilst hiding behind this supposed identity as being the culmination of being human.

Humanity and Perfection may just be no more than facets of the Orokin's true aim: Control.

Granted, this is all theoretical musing, so may be entirely wrong with future canon input.

13 hours ago, senatorspade said:

because it shows that boobs and curves can't define gender

Not to be pedantic, but that definition of gender is a uniquely human concern. Much of the animal kingdom runs the gamut from patterns, colouration, size differences, more/less of certain things...Heck, we're the odd one's out compared to the rest of the Mammalia order alone.

Much as it makes sense (to a point) humans fixate on the whole presence/lack of mammaries to determine gender, it's not for nothing it's a nuisance when it comes to supposedly alien/inhuman creature designs being awfully...similar...to the human female. Rather boring, honestly. Just see the trope Non-Mammal Mammaries for a good look at how often it happens. Can be done well mind, but...the anthropocentric approach to gender is royally tiresome. Though that is of course, personal opinion.

Good exception to that trend though is the Spellsinger series by Alan Dean Foster, which is nicely refreshing. It's nice when the inhuman are inhuman, and not just 'inhuman because we say so'.

Apologies for going on; in short, I am more than open to arguing in favour of the frames with strong animal motifs having their 'gender' more akin to how the creature themselves do. I mean, Zephyr's relatively good in that regard I think.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

This still going on?

Ok,whatever.

 

We got 3 frames

 

We got Bulwick-A Roman Solider/Athena themed warframe. Who's center focus is around using a shield.

 

We got Goliath-A Loin.wrestle warframe who uses a lot of grappling moves.

 

We also got a idea that may as well go out the pooper. Lock, a sea-monster themed warframe, who actually threw around levels instead of walking.

[senatorspade]

7 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

True, but we do not know what perfection meant to the Orokin. Just because right now in human history, the dominant idea of perfect is one thing, does not exclude the possibility of it being different in the far future -- particularly given that these standards have been different in another period of human history.

And just because there is a current dominant cultural standard, does not mean there are not others.

  

And just because these are not currently the dominant standard of beauty, does not exclude the possibility that these could very well be more prevalent cultural views in the future. Because who is to say that the post-Modernity, post-European-colonial, post Cold-War world we live in now is even going exist into the distant, or even near, future. Perhaps the advent of genetic and body modification would completely change the idea of "perfect" and "normal".

Just saying XD

Thank you so much for this, it's a great example of why frames shouldn't be limited to the "ideal" vision of perfection we see in our lives right now. There's so many different cultures and so many different beauty standards, trying to find a reason NOT to welcome tanky/bulky/fat lady frames is redundant at this point. It would make a really really great creative decision to welcome this sort of diversity. 

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

8 minutes ago, senatorspade said:

Thank you so much for this, it's a great example of why frames shouldn't be limited to the "ideal" vision of perfection we see in our lives right now. There's so many different cultures and so many different beauty standards, trying to find a reason NOT to welcome tanky/bulky/fat lady frames is redundant at this point. It would make a really really great creative decision to welcome this sort of diversity. 

 Wait  sec

Wait a sec...

 

 

No body noticed? Ok

 

Here, let me help you.Deversity for Devesrities sake never turns out well. This is why no body just wants a massive muscled russian lady frame*Which ironically enough is a stereotype)

 

And yes and no.

 

The truth is a small % would care If a tanky lady frame would happen If done right.

 

But,once again the problem is,you are doing the thing people hate,you are treated everyone who does agree with you as backwords and doing the samething the last guy did.

Acting like their is no Diversity in the female roaster.

 

Like only size matters..geez.

[Maqabir]

There's nothing wrong with releasing a bulky or fat frame, what I see a lot of people arguing against not just here is the mentality that everyone's bodytype needs to be included for the sake of immersion.

Why do people nowadays suddenly need to play themselves in videogames? I've played athletic characters, women, people of other cultures and even anthropomorphic animals and never have I felt that if only the character I was playing looked more like me the game would be so much better. In fact I find the opposite more fun.

This is not however an argument against frames of different proportions than the ones we currently have, variation is always fun.

[senatorspade]

Just now, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

 Wait  sec

Wait a sec...

 

 

No body noticed? Ok

 

Here, let me help you.Deversity for Devesrities sake never turns out well. This is why no body just wants a massive muscled russian lady frame*Which ironically enough is a stereotype)

 

And yes and no.

 

The truth is a small % would care If a tanky lady frame would happen If done right.

 

But,once again the problem is,you are doing the thing people hate,you are treated everyone who does agree with you as backwords and doing the samething the last guy did.

Acting like their is no Diversity in the female roaster.

 

Like only size matters..geez.

 I was perfectly aware of the Nova Prime thing, I thought that was pretty much well known among all of us, but we're talking mainly about tanky lady frames, Those were just examples of differences in a culture's view of perfection. Ok, and so, if warframe can do this, then it sure as heck can give us tanky ladies. I'm talking about body diversity, a character's figure. Because it does seem repetitive that female frames are all quite small. Nobody said the frame was gonna be a Russian stereotype. Don't give me examples of the contrast between saryn and equinox, those are changes in height, hips, thighs, and busts. That does NOT define a tanky warframe. 

[Eathian]

Personally I'm surprised people feel there's a lack of body diversity in the frames. They're fairly different. There are tons of games that just recycle the models for most of their female characters which doesn't happen here. That being said a larger female I don't feel would seem out of place.

 

I'm all for a defensive/bunker female frame ala Frost. 

[senatorspade]

7 minutes ago, Eathian said:

Personally I'm surprised people feel there's a lack of body diversity in the frames. They're fairly different. There are tons of games that just recycle the models for most of their female characters which doesn't happen here. That being said a larger female I don't feel would seem out of place.

 

I'm all for a defensive/bunker female frame ala Frost. 

There is diversity, it's just very one sided. As in, thin waist, small figure. They ARE all different. It's just very one-sided, tdlr, not as diverse as the male frames when looking at the bigger side of things. You don't see the equivalent of rhino, chroma, vauban, frost, in the female warframes.

Edited October 11, 2016 by senatorspade

[Ibro156]

48 minutes ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

 Wait  sec

Wait a sec...

 

 

No body noticed? Ok

 

Here, let me help you.Deversity for Devesrities sake never turns out well. This is why no body just wants a massive muscled russian lady frame*Which ironically enough is a stereotype)

 

And yes and no.

 

The truth is a small % would care If a tanky lady frame would happen If done right.

 

But,once again the problem is,you are doing the thing people hate,you are treated everyone who does agree with you as backwords and doing the samething the last guy did.

Acting like their is no Diversity in the female roaster.

 

Like only size matters..geez.

Well you do make a point. Female Frame have diverse visuals. While they have somewhat familiar bodies types to one and another.

It's the opposite for Male Frames. All them have diverse body types, as well a distinct shape to them. But most of them, if not all don't has as a powerful distinct visual difference to them.

While Female Frames like somewhat a bit diverse bodies, they make it up with visual distinction to each individual. Basically, opposite to male frames.

[Syln]

I won't mind that as long as i have the choice to change it since my tastes are kind of generic (slim body with a little curve here and there but not too much) the actual "diversity" suit me and i would be annoyed to be introduced with a bulky female frame with no possibility to change it.

[senatorspade]

2 hours ago, Syln said:

I won't mind that as long as i have the choice to change it since my tastes are kind of generic (slim body with a little curve here and there but not too much) the actual "diversity" suit me and i would be annoyed to be introduced with a bulky female frame with no possibility to change it.

you can't change the body type of bulky male frames so why make that apply to bulky female frames????? if you don't like the bulky lady frames, don't play them. you'll always have the frames you like to choose from. 

It could be really problematic making it an option at all.

Edited October 11, 2016 by senatorspade

[RNGesuskills]

DE just needs one frame that looks like this:

Then people will have no excuse(still would complain) about catering to the PC.

[arch111]

This is really good i think.

 

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

5 hours ago, Ibro156 said:

Well you do make a point. Female Frame have diverse visuals. While they have somewhat familiar bodies types to one and another.

It's the opposite for Male Frames. All them have diverse body types, as well a distinct shape to them. But most of them, if not all don't has as a powerful distinct visual difference to them.

While Female Frames like somewhat a bit diverse bodies, they make it up with visual distinction to each individual. Basically, opposite to male frames.

Actually, their is 3 types of bodies in warframes,humandoid,monsterous and Limbo

 

I think the truth is the only monstrous body that is female is Zphry. While Atlas and Inaros and Nercos are the 3 males (Would say chroma but once again..) So,maybe we need more monsterous body types,which they have been doing more of.

[(XBOX)TheRoflLizard]

5 hours ago, Ibro156 said:

Well you do make a point. Female Frame have diverse visuals. While they have somewhat familiar bodies types to one and another.

It's the opposite for Male Frames. All them have diverse body types, as well a distinct shape to them. But most of them, if not all don't has as a powerful distinct visual difference to them.

While Female Frames like somewhat a bit diverse bodies, they make it up with visual distinction to each individual. Basically, opposite to male frames.

Most of the body types, are very similir and most (Even the males) only have slight size changes other then the extremes. Most changes to both groups is focused around the suits, or the bigger changes that come with Prime.

 

To be far, the visial Diverse is more appealing. Cause size can not make up for good old fanshion..glitter.

[jfhsanseiIII]

If there is a good/fun reason for a body type then I'm all for it. Also, diversity just for the sake of diversity is fine as well.  However, if there's an agenda for the diversity then no.

 

I wouldn't mind a 'dwarf frame' if it was because the devs had a thing for the marvel character Puck.  However, if DE made a dwarf frame because there wasn't enough body type diversity that represented dwarves in gaming, then I'd be suspicious.  I dont think gaming is really the place to take our social agendas. 

That said a large muscular female frame would be pretty cool. Give her a  conal hand clap stun, a jump to enemy ability, achargeable heavy weapon (like Mesa/Equinox) after it hits a certain point she can use it to unload some mini guns in a giant spray, and an AoE that reduces enemies ability to hit because they're intimidated. That'd be cool, heavy sounding, and not too OP. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by jfhsanseiIII

[RunningTree3]

8 hours ago, Freakiq said:

There's nothing wrong with releasing a bulky or fat frame, what I see a lot of people arguing against not just here is the mentality that everyone's bodytype needs to be included for the sake of immersion.

Why do people nowadays suddenly need to play themselves in videogames? I've played athletic characters, women, people of other cultures and even anthropomorphic animals and never have I felt that if only the character I was playing looked more like me the game would be so much better. In fact I find the opposite more fun.

This is not however an argument against frames of different proportions than the ones we currently have, variation is always fun.

I think it is not so much 'playing as themselves' but rather playing with choices as varied as in both everyday life as well as fantasy. It can also be about this form of art giving the means to experience another person's reality. And even if playing a body-type different than your own has no bearing on your gameplay -- that in itself is an experience, as in "oh. i can feel like a hero regardless of body type."

7 hours ago, Syln said:

I won't mind that as long as i have the choice to change it since my tastes are kind of generic (slim body with a little curve here and there but not too much) the actual "diversity" suit me and i would be annoyed to be introduced with a bulky female frame with no possibility to change it.

Thats understandable. So I hope its also understandable that, in the same way, there may be those whose tastes are not represented in the current roster and also have no way to change this.

8 hours ago, Eathian said:

Personally I'm surprised people feel there's a lack of body diversity in the frames. They're fairly different. There are tons of games that just recycle the models for most of their female characters which doesn't happen here. That being said a larger female I don't feel would seem out of place.

I think we are abke to voice all this because Warframe does diversity in characters and story very well compared to other games. So we in the community actually trust in the creators to continue offering more nuanced portrayals. In any other game, I would just not bother giving my time and feedback if there was no chance that those creators even cared.

[texrei]

11 hours ago, (XB1)TheRoflLizard said:

Actually, their is 3 types of bodies in warframes,humandoid,monsterous and Limbo

 

I think the truth is the only monstrous body that is female is Zphry. While Atlas and Inaros and Nercos are the 3 males (Would say chroma but once again..) So,maybe we need more monsterous body types,which they have been doing more of.

Actually, Zephyr has normal body. Equinox and Titania are obviously disproportioned. Mirage has pretty weird body too.

[Ibro156]

12 minutes ago, texrei said:

Actually, Zephyr has normal body. Equinox and Titania are obviously disproportioned. Mirage has pretty weird body too.

Mirage upper body seems normal. That extra bit on the kneel caps just changes it really.

[Mak_Gohae]

20 minutes ago, texrei said:

 Mirage has pretty weird body too.

What's weird about her body? She is one of the 3 frames that has curves and it's not the slim standard. .

Is it the missile boobs? That's classic 1950's.

[texrei]

18 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

What's weird about her body? She is one of the 3 frames that has curves and it's not the slim standard. .

Is it the missile boobs? That's classic 1950's.

She's very slim, but butt 

[Mak_Gohae]

15 minutes ago, texrei said:

She's very slim, but butt 

If she is "very slim" then Mesa and ivara are what? None-existent?