T. Boltace: quality of life Nerfed

[Harloq]

Why remove the best feature of this weapon, destroying containers, for no reason other than a couple of people complaining someone is "kill stealing" them in low level missions?

You guys could have removed the damage to enemies instead, but no. I mean why was this needed; they have done this for longer with other melees, why remove this amazing quality of live feature from the quick melee of this weapon.

Or are we not expending time enough in mission? I'm a no melee kind of player and even then this nerf gives me a sour taste.

[Misgenesis]

It was not intended. It certainly was not a 'QoL' feature.

[Gelkor]

Does that mean it wont break corpus class or cryo containers?

[(PSN)Elctrcstel]

5 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

Does that mean it wont break corpus class or cryo containers?

you probably still can if it actually connects with the objects in question, but from what i can tell from the hotfix, the extra passive from the spin attack not only activates while the T.Boltace is out

[Omega-ZX]

Equip the Telos Boltace and have fun with spin. :)

[Inarticulate]

None of the other syndicate melee unique effects are able to be activated from a quick melee option. It was very clear that the ability to activate the Telos Boltace's spin attack effect from a quick melee spin attack was unintended.

[Chipputer]

5 hours ago, Harloq said:

for no reason other than a couple of people complaining someone is "kill stealing" them in low level missions?

Kiddo, I (and many others besides myself) was complaining about it because I was able to slide attack spam my way through Sorties with very little difficulty. Don't assume or generalize. You look bad.

[Skaleek]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Kiddo, I (and many others besides myself) was complaining about it because I was able to slide attack spam my way through Sorties with very little difficulty. Don't assume or generalize. You look bad.

So now people go back to mirage simulor'ing through sorties. Another day another aoe.

[Chipputer]

Just now, Skaleek said:

So now people go back to mirage simulor'ing through sorties. Another day another aoe.

Yeah, because Mirage is another problem, entirely. Note my word choice, there. Mirage is a problem. Mirage needs to be fixed but the second they touch Mirage people will freak out just as they did with her overpowered blindspam.

AoE is fine. AoE that leaves you essentially invulnerable due to excessive mobility isn't. T.Boltace wasn't overpowered because of its power at lower levels, it was overpowered because of its power and utility at all levels.

[Skaleek]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Yeah, because Mirage is another problem, entirely. Note my word choice, there. Mirage is a problem. Mirage needs to be fixed but the second they touch Mirage people will freak out just as they did with her overpowered blindspam.

AoE is fine. AoE that leaves you essentially invulnerable due to excessive mobility isn't. T.Boltace wasn't overpowered because of its power at lower levels, it was overpowered because of its power and utility at all levels.

I dunno... I'm not sure if i feel like "AoE is fine", the fact that all of these aoe's are so spammable has made warframe so much more a hoard shooter and so much less a tactical shooter. I hope they take a look at it when they do damage 2.0. I miss the days of killing enemies one by one, honestly. Not sure if this sentiment is shared throughout the community, though.

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, Skaleek said:

I dunno... I'm not sure if i feel like "AoE is fine", the fact that all of these aoe's are so spammable has made warframe so much more a hoard shooter and so much less a tactical shooter. I hope they take a look at it when they do damage 2.0. I miss the days of killing enemies one by one, honestly. Not sure if this sentiment is shared throughout the community, though.

You can have those days back by running with people who think like you do or running solo. I use bows and throwing knives as my main weaponry. I know the pain. Trust me.

AoE is absolutely fine. The power could be looked at in some cases, sure. I've always used Final Fantasy as a great way to balance AoE. Fire on one enemy does 500 damage. Fire on all enemies does 100 damage to each enemy. 5 or more enemies will make an AoE Fire worth the same or worth more, respectively. AoE weaponry should be balanced in this manner. The issue is finding the sweet spot to tool the AoE damage to. 15 enemies? 20 enemies? 10 enemies?

Retooling how AoE works would also cause people to think about their secondary weapons, bringing good single target secondaries to use until large groups approach. Lookie there! A great way to increase loadout diversity and bring balance to the game!

Regardless, Mirage will still be the main problem with AoE weaponry. Mirage, herself, multiplies weapon damage to such an extent that until she's reigned in AoE weaponry will always be much more powerful on her, to the point of pretty much just pressing 1 and pointing and clicking.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Chipputer

[Skaleek]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

You can have those days back by running with people who think like you do or running solo. I use bows and throwing knives as my main weaponry. I know the pain. Trust me.

AoE is absolutely fine. The power could be looked at in some cases, sure. I've always used Final Fantasy as a great way to balance AoE. Fire one one enemy does 500 damage. Fire on all enemies does 100 damage to each enemy. 5 or more enemies will make an AoE Fire worth the same or worth more, respectively. AoE weaponry should be balanced in this manner. The issue is finding the sweet spot to tool the AoE damage to. 15 enemies? 20 enemies? 10 enemies?

Retooling how AoE works would also cause people to think about their secondary weapons, bringing good single target secondaries to use until large groups approach. Lookie there! A great way to increase loadout diversity and bring balance to the game!

Regardless, Mirage will still be the main problem with AoE weaponry. Mirage, herself, multiplies weapon damage to such an extent that until she's reigned in AoE weaponry will always be much more powerful on her, to the point of pretty much just pressing 1 and pointing and clicking.

Wow! I actually really like the idea of diminishing returns based on how much the AoE is hitting. Like let's say i bladestorm one guy, i do 100k finisher damage, but if i bladestorm ten guys, 10k, 20 guys 5k, etc etc. Numbers not withstanding. I really think that's a smart idea. Have you suggested this before on the forums?

Edited October 21, 2016 by Skaleek

[Chipputer]

Just now, Skaleek said:

Wow! I actually really like the idea of Diminishing returns based on how much the AoE is hitting. Like let's say i bladestorm one guy, i do 100k finisher damage, but if i bladestorm ten guys, 10k, 20 guys 5k, etc etc. Numbers not withstanding. I really think that's a smart idea. Have you suggested this before on the forums?

I don't think you fully understood what I was saying. Not so much diminishing returns as the weapon being built assuming you're using it against a high volume of enemies. You take, say, a Tigris Prime and divide it's damage by, say, 15. You then take the Synoid Simulor and give it the same damage as Tigris Prime/15. This way you'd have the Tigris Prime excel in single target scenarios and the S.Simulor excel in high volume scenarios. They would struggle with the opposite situations.

Right now, AoE is so viable because it's great against absolutely every situation.

I've mentioned it on the forums before, but, as it was in someone else's topic it got ignored. It also aims to touch people's precious AoE weapons so you can imagine my apprehension for making a topic for it.

Diminishing returns is a whole other beast and also an interesting idea that could work but would make AoE become far less viable in higher levels due to enemy scaling.

[Skaleek]

2 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

I don't think you fully understood what I was saying. Not so much diminishing returns as the weapon being built assuming you're using it against a high volume of enemies. You take, say, a Tigris Prime and divide it's damage by, say, 15. You then take the Synoid Simulor and give it the same damage as Tigris Prime/15. This way you'd have the Tigris Prime excel in single target scenarios and the S.Simulor excel in high volume scenarios. They would struggle with the opposite situations.

Right now, AoE is so viable because it's great against absolutely every situation.

I've mentioned it on the forums before, but, as it was in someone else's topic it got ignored. It also aims to touch people's precious AoE weapons so you can imagine my apprehension for making a topic for it.

Diminishing returns is a whole other beast and also an interesting idea that could work but would make AoE become far less viable in higher levels due to enemy scaling.

Oh, I think i'd personally prefer the AoE to dynamically scale based upon number of enemies being hit, but I get your meaning. No matter what topic you make on these forums you will get backlash from someone. Anyways, i dont want to derail this thread so I'll leave it alone now.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Skaleek

[shyguyk]

You should be advocating for a Looter mod buff, not a weapon buff, if you're concerned with breaking boxes. Quit with that powercreep

[Soketsu]

48 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

Kiddo, I (and many others besides myself) was complaining about it because I was able to slide attack spam my way through Sorties with very little difficulty. Don't assume or generalize. You look bad.

lol did you just say that ? you who find this meaning offensive, but now you use it, I love it mwhahaha x)

[Harloq]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Kiddo, I (and many others besides myself) was complaining about it because I was able to slide attack spam my way through Sorties with very little difficulty. Don't assume or generalize. You look bad.

Nice one billy, you used it the abusive way and I used to destroy boxes. Have a lollipop.

[GrimAtrament]

what did they even nerf i dont get all the crying it seems just as good as it was before...

[Harloq]

9 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

what did they even nerf i dont get all the crying it seems just as good as it was before...

No more AoE damage in quick melee (spin).

For the players the use melee as a main weapon fine, but for those that use it as a support gear removed a lot of usefulness in having it.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Harloq
360 and walk away

[GrimAtrament]

44 minutes ago, Harloq said:

No more AoE damage in quick melee (spin).

For the players the use melee as a main weapon fine, but for those that use it as a support gear removed a lot of usefulness in having it.

press and hold f spin press and hold f... your guns back... its not that complex...

Edited October 21, 2016 by hazerddex

[Soketsu]

8 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

press and hold f spin press and hold f... your guns back... its not that complex...

or just take a weapon with a correct range, put (primed) reach on it, perform quick spin melee, same result if you using for cache, less efforts, less waisted time :)

[lyravega]

9 hours ago, Misgenesis said:

It was not intended.

What was not intended, please tell me? The passive of the weapon which supposed to trigger an AoE on "spin attacks" actually not triggering it with "quick spin attacks"? Riiight...

 

41 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

press and hold f spin press and hold f... your guns back... its not that complex...

Oh thanks, I didn't know that. Jesus christ...

[Insizer]

18 hours ago, lyravega said:

What was not intended, please tell me? The passive of the weapon which supposed to trigger an AoE on "spin attacks" actually not triggering it with "quick spin attacks"? Riiight...

What about the restrictions on the passives of the other syndicate melees?

[GinKenshin]

On 10/21/2016 at 6:54 PM, Inarticulate said:

None of the other syndicate melee unique effects are able to be activated from a quick melee option. It was very clear that the ability to activate the Telos Boltace's spin attack effect from a quick melee spin attack was unintended.

Because the others needed charge attacks, blocking, channeling...all of this can only be done if you equip the weapon 

 

spin attacks don't need the weapon to be equipped, so it was logical, but ofc, screw logic right? Kill steals in low lvl missions are more important :P

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, GinKenshin said:

Kill steals in low lvl missions are more important :P

This isn't just directed at you:

I wish you people would quit strawmanning with this.

The only time anyone addresses the "low level" point is when it's brought up as an absurd, "you're only mad because low level missions are easy with it." They neglect to mention that a good portion of the arguments, if not all, for nerfing the T.Boltace were made by people who used it in higher level missions, including Sorties, and discovered its power and utility to be ridiculous.

But nope, gotta make myself feel good and superior by making some, "oh your poor easy mode missions," quip.