[Spoiler ]Concerns on the incoming riven nerf.

[Dat_Krawg]

Honestly i feel that if people where willing to spend that much plat on mods from a new UNTESTED system that was bound to have nerfs really soon after the release just so there meta gun could have more dakka deserve what they get.

Im interested to see what the future holds for it.

But to the dummys who dived in and power bomed their plat i say HAHAHA

[Dat_Krawg]

12 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

Some volatility should be expected, but if the changes will be bigger than say a -damage% stat or something, the mods will lose their value, making them worthless in relation to the platinum paid for them. The buyers should be compensated in some way, that is only fair. 

Unfortunately they purchased them off players not de so de owes them nothing. if they had purchased it off the market then yes compensation is i  order but as the prices where decided apon by the players for experimental mods then they are up S#&$e creek without a paddle

[CarrotSalad]

Compensation would be a minor thing i think, its just a matter of distributing another Riven mod to those players who have finished the quest. Thats if the nerf to these meta weapon riven mods is substantial. If its just a small snip of stat % or a lower max % rate then i think theres no need for compensation.

It reminds me of that bug we had a few years ago with Steel Charge where DE's compensation was a Legendary mod.

[Rin01]

To any players who spent a ton of plat on clearly overpowered mods for clearly overpowered weapons: I have no sympathy for you. You took the risk, that's on you not DE.

This riven mod system is clearly not finished, hence why there are only rifle mods at the moment. And the rolls some people were getting were clearly broken and need to be changed. If you could not see that then that is your problem and you deserve to lose money. Sorry, but you should be more careful with your spending on such things.

Do you want the system to remain broken just because you spent some money? I'm sorry, but the rest of the playerbase want a balanced system and don't care about your financial loss. The system needs to be balanced. That is blantantly obvious to anyone with eyes and a few brain cells. DE should not stop balancing this system just because some impatient players rushed out to pay for an unbalanced advantage.

At the end of the day, even after these nerfs, these mods will still be a buff. They are not going to make them useless. OP weapons are already able to trivialize a lot of content, so why are you worried if the riven mod doesn't make it as crazy OP as it is now? Are you really that bad at the game that you need your OP weapon to be even more OP?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rin01

[Snowbluff]

I'm worried they won't be worth the slot anymore. My dex syb's mod is modest (80% crit damage, 110% crit chance), but it's only MR 12 and for the Sybaris, so it might get nerfed to the ground. D:

[Rin01]

9 minutes ago, Snowbluff said:

I'm worried they won't be worth the slot anymore. My dex syb's mod is modest (80% crit damage, 110% crit chance), but it's only MR 12 and for the Sybaris, so it might get nerfed to the ground. D:

It may just be that they change the potential maximums, and if your mod is below the new maximums you may not even notice a difference. We just have to wait and see how they balance them. No point in worrying about it now. The riven mods need changing, this is clear, and DE is going to change them, which is a good thing for the game and the playerbase as a whole. How much they nerf it? We will just have to wait and see, but I doubt very much they will nerf them to the point where they become useless.

Even if your particular mod was nerfed down to 60% crit dam and 80% crit chance (a ~25% reduction, which is not an unreasonable expectation), it would still be more useful than a lot of other mods and well worth slotting. The riven mods do not need to be crazy OP to be worth slotting, especially if they are for a weapon that is already top tier. It would be ridiculous to have such an expectation in my opinion.

[GhostlightX]

15 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

Some volatility should be expected, but if the changes will be bigger than say a -damage% stat or something, the mods will lose their value, making them worthless in relation to the platinum paid for them. The buyers should be compensated in some way, that is only fair. 

Compensated by whom? DE didn't set the price nor force the sale. DE also warned all players in advance that the content was subject to change at any time, so they really are in the clear over this. (other than the fact that their credibility is shot because the design of these mods appears so very very bad and amateurish that their reputation as designers for their own game is surely down the toilet?). 

And given the OP-ness Riven mods can reach, the nerf was 100% totally expected tbh. So the buyers must have known the risk. If anyone who spent 1000+plat on one of these tries to say there was no way they expected a nerf, then I simply don't believe them.

The only person that could possibly be required to compensate these buyers is (just maybe) the seller. Good luck with that.

Edited November 16, 2016 by GhostlightX

[Xaero]

I think DE should nerf meta weapons, not the mods. This will eliminate the problem of angry players who bought their mods for ridiculous prices, right? And will also bring many weps in line.

[Toran]

Are Riven mods really that overpowered?

Be honest: 98% are crap as they are for crap weapons. Even if you get an exceptionally good one it will bring the weapon only in the range of the actual top weapons. There are only few weapons that will be overpowered, but those already are in the first place.

And next point: who needs them really? They are locked behind a high mastery rank and guys of that MR usually got badass stuff already. With the days of long-runs of Defense & Survival gone, Sorties are the last bastion you already take out easily.

Why Riven mods look perfectly wrong to me? The guys that could use them the most (newcomers) are locked out of getting them without intense help from others.

 

 

[Rin01]

12 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

I think DE should nerf meta weapons, not the mods. This will eliminate the problem of angry players who bought their mods for ridiculous prices, right? And will also bring many weps in line.

I agree. I would have preferred this as well and then have Riven mods give extra effects (such as life steal, affinity bonus, energy regen, etc.), rather than just straight up stat buffs.

 

These extra effect could still be randomized (e.g.: +0.1 to +1 Life steal) and weapon specific. But the stat bonuses, if any, would be much lower.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Rin01

[Snowbluff]

35 minutes ago, Rin01 said:

It may just be that they change the potential maximums, and if your mod is below the new maximums you may not even notice a difference. We just have to wait and see how they balance them. No point in worrying about it now. The riven mods need changing, this is clear, and DE is going to change them, which is a good thing for the game and the playerbase as a whole. How much they nerf it? We will just have to wait and see, but I doubt very much they will nerf them to the point where they become useless.

Even if your particular mod was nerfed down to 60% crit dam and 80% crit chance (a ~25% reduction, which is not an unreasonable expectation), it would still be more useful than a lot of other mods and well worth slotting. The riven mods do not need to be crazy OP to be worth slotting, especially if they are for a weapon that is already top tier. It would be ridiculous to have such an expectation in my opinion.

I hope it's just the maximum. T.T
And It costs a forma to have it on my gun, and a mod slot. It's got to compete with primed cryo!

Edited November 16, 2016 by Snowbluff

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

16 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

how are they going to take the trades that have been already made into consideration?

They aren't. That's why people try to sell them quickly after the system releases. It's how you make the most plat.

It's also why players that don't have the plat to waste should wait.

16 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

I'm worried that they will nerf the mods poorly,

Expect them to be worthless; DE doesn't do subtle.

[kuchn]

ingame darwinism 
those with brains will always dominate over a simulor mirage 
muahahha (insert superevil meme)

[TaylorsContraction]

DE said nothing in the upcoming changes that existing mods would be modified retroactively. There's a good chance your mods won't even be affected unless you reroll them.

From my understanding, once the changes kick in, there maximum values on rolls for meta weapons will be weighed toward the lower spectrum or capped at a certain maximum. Nothing was said about existing mods changing, how about you save the salt for actual legitimate complaints.

[RedDirtTrooper]

7 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

DE said nothing in the upcoming changes that existing mods would be modified retroactively. There's a good chance your mods won't even be affected unless you reroll them.

From my understanding, once the changes kick in, there maximum values on rolls for meta weapons will be weighed toward the lower spectrum or capped at a certain maximum. Nothing was said about existing mods changing, how about you save the salt for actual legitimate complaints.

I'd think they'd have to retroactively cap them, or make them so they can't be traded unless re-rolled. Otherwise, you just end up making these 2000 plat mods worth 10000 plat.

[Nox_Terminus]

This is what I feared would happen, though it is to be expected. I just hope it doesnt ruin the Ogris mod I got, its relatively tame, and only had 2 benefits.

Ogris-Visipha

• +101.8% Heat
• +224.4% Damage
• -68.7% Critical Chance

Even with this mod the weapon isn't better than the Tonkor, as in the time it takes to fire 1 rocket, the Tonkor user has fired several grenades. However it does make the weapon more viable at higher levels, which should be the purpose of mods like these.

[kreftet]

17 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

I'm going to start by saying that I got really lucky with my riven roll, so my opinion might be a bit biased.

Now that Rebecca clarified that they are indeed nerfing the riven mods for the meta guns, a few concerns come to my mind, which all have to do with how good the mods are. 

Some people have paid absurd amounts of platinum for the top-tier mods for weapons such as tonkor or simulor, hundreds of platinum can be exchanged for a single mod. When they decide to nerf the mods, how are they going to take the trades that have been already made into consideration? I.e someone pays 1k platinum for 200% dmg and 200% crit tonkor mod before DE nerfs the mods, after nerfing, the mod isn't going to be worth the same amount. A 1000p mod might plummet down to 300p, which obviously would anger the buyer. They should have figured the mods out beforehand, how are they going to balance the economy of the mods. If you would nerf the mods in a way that would make them drop a lot in price, you should offer some compensation at least for the buyers. The people like me, who decided to keep the mod are not affected so much, but still, knowing that the mod will drop in price would perhaps change the owner's decision whether to keep the mod or not. 

tl;dr

I'm worried that they will nerf the mods poorly, which would anger the people who have bought the mods for lots of platinum, practically making the mods worthless for the platinum spent on them.

never buy things when they just came out because of its testing phase its a common sense that some ppl dont understand plus if you w8 for a couple weeks the prices drop anyways so its not like its a must to have them atm because without them all content was already doable they just made is a little easier.

If it was the other way around like they got a buff you wouldnt post this so dont whine its your own fault if you bought them.

Edited November 16, 2016 by kreftet

[Callback]

18 hours ago, Diazin0n said:

I'm going to start by saying that I got really lucky with my riven roll, so my opinion might be a bit biased.

Now that Rebecca clarified that they are indeed nerfing the riven mods for the meta guns, a few concerns come to my mind, which all have to do with how good the mods are. 

Some people have paid absurd amounts of platinum for the top-tier mods for weapons such as tonkor or simulor, hundreds of platinum can be exchanged for a single mod. When they decide to nerf the mods, how are they going to take the trades that have been already made into consideration? I.e someone pays 1k platinum for 200% dmg and 200% crit tonkor mod before DE nerfs the mods, after nerfing, the mod isn't going to be worth the same amount. A 1000p mod might plummet down to 300p, which obviously would anger the buyer. They should have figured the mods out beforehand, how are they going to balance the economy of the mods. If you would nerf the mods in a way that would make them drop a lot in price, you should offer some compensation at least for the buyers. The people like me, who decided to keep the mod are not affected so much, but still, knowing that the mod will drop in price would perhaps change the owner's decision whether to keep the mod or not. 

tl;dr

I'm worried that they will nerf the mods poorly, which would anger the people who have bought the mods for lots of platinum, practically making the mods worthless for the platinum spent on them.

After the nerfs that 200% damage and crit tonkor mod will become a ~60% damage and crit tonkor mod.  Still a top tier tonkor riven.  The top tier will just be lower in stats.  It's still a tool for minmaxing, It's still the best in its class.  It puts the game back in somewhat relative balance while maintaining most of what makes the mod valuable (rarity and perfect stat alignment for the minmaxer).

 

It's just like if they buffed charged chamber to match primed chamber's stats, and had primed chamber add a golden tracer round to the buffed shot.  It balances the game, while maintaining the collector's rarity of the original.

 

It cannot by any means be suffered to remain as it is.  This nerf is mandatory if this game wants to continue on.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Callback

[TaylorsContraction]

2 hours ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

I'd think they'd have to retroactively cap them, or make them so they can't be traded unless re-rolled. Otherwise, you just end up making these 2000 plat mods worth 10000 plat.

So? Primed chamber is the exact same example of your concern but DE doesn't much care. It's still tradeable, and doesn't seem like it'll be releasing ever again. Perhaps there is a chance for a riven mod to get its stats though.

[RacerDelux]

Honestly, I would rather see them buff everything else to put it near the same level as weapons like the tonkor, then we would not need to nerf anything. (The buff can be applied in the form of large stat increases).

There is one thing I am very worried about. How is DE going to determine if a weapon is "meta" or not. This is an intangible attribute. Is the opticore "meta"? How about Paris/Dread? Latron? Dex Sybaris? How about penta (it does damage, but is outclassed by the tonkor due to self damage)?

How is this going to be decided?

I got a rather good mod for my Sybaris, which I don't consider meta, though it is certainly good. 

tldr

This is why I think they need to be buffing and not nerf. If they really want to do something about things like the tonkor, give it self damage. That by itself would make it balanced in my eyes.

Edited November 16, 2016 by RacerDelux

[RedDirtTrooper]

2 hours ago, TaylorsContraction said:

So? Primed chamber is the exact same example of your concern but DE doesn't much care. It's still tradeable, and doesn't seem like it'll be releasing ever again. Perhaps there is a chance for a riven mod to get its stats though.

You say they don't care, and yet they haven't done anything like it since the outcry about it. I'm not saying there's no chance that they won't leave current riven mods alone, just that I can see them applying the caps to them to make them the same as all the rest going forward.