I am no Masochist - so I am not re-rolling Riven Mods

[Vicious_Vipa]

should grind in Video games actually make you feel miserable?

1.) the chance of getting the Riven Mod you want from a Sortie is 0,??%  ONCE per day          (?%  x  1/number of weapons)
But this is not even what I want to talk about here.

Because after this craziness the true pain is just starting!!

The system of increasing costs for a completely new SET of all stats, each with completely random amounts and with a chance of getting negative stats is just insane and CAN ONLY MAKE YOU FEEL MISERABLE unless you belong to 0,0??? % of the population.

I already know how bad it can feel when you re-roll ONE particular stat on a weapon in the Division. But as mentioned: this is just ONE stat and then you get to choose between several possible options.  And besides, these weapons and resources/credits in general are much easier to come by!

But what we have now in Warframe is just.... I have no words.   The chance of getting disappointed - and then with even MORE costs for the next roll is just too great.
Besides - even if you got lucky and get a good roll:   you'll always know that it could be better.

How can an experienced developer team publish such a system??

I am asking the question again:
should the grind in Video games actually make you feel miserable?

Like said in another thread: there are different types of grind.  Some give you the pleasant feeling of working towards something but the Riven-type will only lead to frustration.
And the small small percentage of people who got something great will be able to sell it for thousands of platinum. 
Either DE does not have experience or they just don't care what they are doing to players. Players who possibly have invested so much time and platinum in this (their) game

EDIT:
if someone says that words like "miserable" should have nothing to do in a video game because only real-life can be miserable, then please consider that we are talking about hours, days, for some even weeks (!) of real-life time here. And of course you'll feel like sh**t  everytime you re-roll these mods and get crap.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[Chewarette]

5 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

1.) the chance of getting the Riven Mod you want from a Sortie is 0,0??%  ONCE PER DAY.

Dunno. One guy in my clan had 3 in a row (on 4 Sorties). So I'd say the chances are quite respectable, probably the highest after Endos and Lenses. I'll give it another week of Sorties before assessing their loot rate. :P

Edited November 16, 2016 by Chewarette

[Sirabot]

Riven means Fractured or torn apart. I think it means us more than the mod.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Sirabot

[Vicious_Vipa]

.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[RedDirtTrooper]

personally, I'd like to see all variation on the stats magnitude removed completely. I wouldn't mind it being completely random what set of stats you get, as long as those stats were always a set amount. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

I don't see myself re-rolling Riven mods either...if I get one that is decent, I'll use it, otherwise I'll do fine without. I don't care for the 15 mod limit though, that has to go...

[Vicious_Vipa]

11 minutes ago, Chewarette said:

Dunno. One guy in my clan had 3 in a row (on 4 Sorties). So I'd say the chances are quite respectable, probably the highest after Endos and Lenses. I'll give it another week of Sorties before assessing their loot rate. :P

I did 2 sorties so far - of course each with 2000 Endo.
And judging from my friend's experiences - I'd say the chances to get a Riven mod are quite low.

and then multiply this chance with 1/number of weapons    and you'll get to a chance of 0,??? ONCE PER DAY

Edited November 16, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[KirukaChan]

I'd love to be just getting Riven mods at all. Sorties apparently feel like I should be getting Endo instead.

[Emulad0or]

Riven mods are not necessary to begin with. DERebecca said it was made to give other and possibilities to weapons that are not used often. It was never to help top tier weapons like the tonkor or the soma. The random stats and increasing cost are there to stop people from getting a "perfect mod" on purpose. And admit it, we are so powerful already, we don't need even more powercreep. If getting the best possible mod for the best weapons in game is your goal, good luck, you will need it, since that was never the idea of these new mods.

[Vicious_Vipa]

19 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Riven mods are not necessary to begin with. DERebecca said it was made to give other and possibilities to weapons that are not used often.

I heard that, too.  And I like the idea of this, I really do.

But this does not explain why they have carried out this idea so poorly (see above).

Please tell me:  who would litterally invest days of farming to make a mediocre weapon viable in endgame and most likely go through a "vale of tears" in the process?

and needless to mention that if DE really wanted that, then why have they published those mods for the Meta weapons like the Tonkor, Soma, Simulor, Dread in the first place ?

Also: they spoke of interesting new ways.   but mere stats and numbers are not interesting.  New properties like "percentage of armor destruction" would be interesting.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[Snowbluff]

If you guys don't want them, I'll take them. I've a bit of an addictive personality. I don't care if they're for crap weapons like the panthera, either

[notlamprey]

I am not even touching them.

Riven Mods were a mistake.

Spoiler

 

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

26 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

Riven mods are not necessary to begin with. DERebecca said it was made to give other and possibilities to weapons that are not used often. It was never to help top tier weapons like the tonkor or the soma. The random stats and increasing cost are there to stop people from getting a "perfect mod" on purpose. And admit it, we are so powerful already, we don't need even more powercreep. If getting the best possible mod for the best weapons in game is your goal, good luck, you will need it, since that was never the idea of these new mods.

That doesn't even make sense. Getting the best mod is the only point of this system. Plus, if they wanted it to make people use non-meta weapons? why do they exist for meta weapons. And why they make people want to use unused weapons if they get bad rolls and are discouraged from rerolling?

Edited November 16, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Emulad0or]

11 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

Also: they spoke of interesting new ways.   but mere stats and numbers are not interesting.  New properties like "percentage of armor destruction" would be interesting.

I do agree with this, new mechanics for some mods would actually be really cool. But they are still testing this system, they will make changes, including in mods you already own.

10 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That doesn't even make sense. Getting the best mod is the only point of this system. Plus, if they wanted it to make people use non-meta weapons, why do they exist for meta weapons. And why they make people want to use unused weapons if they get bad rolls?

I get you are probably one of those people who just run BS Ash or Mirage + Simulor because it's more powerful. But why do you need more damage for, let's say, the tonkor? It already 1 shots everything, what a couple more 0s are gonna do for you? More damage that comes with "the best mod" is, actually, useless. And as I said, they are field testing and are going to change a lot of things in those mods.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

7 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

I do agree with this, new mechanics for some mods would actually be really cool. But they are still testing this system, they will make changes, including in mods you already own.

I get you are probably one of those people who just run BS Ash or Mirage + Simulor because it's more powerful. But why do you need more damage for, let's say, the tonkor? It already 1 shots everything, what a couple more 0s are gonna do for you? More damage that comes with "the best mod" is, actually, useless. And as I said, they are field testing and are going to change a lot of things in those mods.

I play Nova. I played Trinity before the Blessing range nerf.

Edited November 16, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Emulad0or]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I play Nova. I played Trinity before the Blessing range nerf.

What you play with or not is not the point (even if I guessed it wrong). The point is that we don't need "the best mod" because, even if in theory the are beautiful, in practical terms they are useless (you will still be one shoting anything with or without a +dmg +crit tonkor mod)

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

What you play with or not is not the point (even if I guessed it wrong). The point is that we don't need "the best mod" because, even if in theory the are beautiful, in practical terms they are useless (you will still be one shoting anything with or without a +dmg +crit tonkor mod)

It is the point because you were trying to dismiss my argument with it.

Warframe having no challenge and no endgame anymore is a-whole-nother argument.

[Vicious_Vipa]

people will always want the best possible build.  

it is the developer's task to provide endgame missions with suitable difficulty (which they fail doing) 

besides, if we don't farm for better gear - what else would we be doing in this game? 

I get your point Emulad0or, but do you have an answer for my question? 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[----Dante----]

well im not rerolling either

get bad mod>sell it>save up> buy better with already decent stats

[Emulad0or]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

It is the point because you were trying to dismiss my argument with it.

Warframe having no challenge and no endgame anymore is a-whole-nother argument.

 

2 minutes ago, Vicious_Vipa said:

people will always want the best possible build.  

it is the developer's task to provide endgame missions with suitable difficulty (which they fail doing) 

It has endgame (void survival still exist, and at least now it gives you a relic that you can choose the reward later and not  a useless fang blade after 2 hours there), and if you are stronger than that, why do you even care for better mods? It's just more meaningless numbers that will still do the exact same thing. Try out some weaker and out the meta stuff on the endgame if you want some challenge.

[Shockwave-]

1 hour ago, Chewarette said:

Dunno. One guy in my clan had 3 in a row (on 4 Sorties). So I'd say the chances are quite respectable, probably the highest after Endos and Lenses. I'll give it another week of Sorties before assessing their loot rate. :P

My group.. 15 sorties between us, no riven mods.

[Shockwave-]

34 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

What you play with or not is not the point (even if I guessed it wrong). The point is that we don't need "the best mod" because, even if in theory the are beautiful, in practical terms they are useless (you will still be one shoting anything with or without a +dmg +crit tonkor mod)

So one of the main draws of the game isn't farming for the best gear? I see this argument alot about Riven mods and I'll riposte with my usual reply. Prime frames aren't "required" either. What you play with isn't the point as you will be one shotting everything whether you are in Vauban or Vauban Prime. So why was old void RNG so bad that it was changed by DE? If it those items weren't "required" then people didn't HAVE to do the same mission over and over again farming for the prime they wanted.

But DE agreed that they wanted the item and the Grind was so bad we lost the void (arguably the best part of Warframe).  So the argument of "you don't need that shiney new thing you want" didn't work then and DE agreed that you DID need that shiny new thing.

 

Riven mods are the Shiny new thing. People want to have access to them. They don't want an endless repetitive method of farming them (kuva farming) just like they didn't want void. Now to Kuva farm you have to capture or exterminate over and over on Sedna (to be most effective). How is this not worse than old void farming?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Shockwave-

[Sloan441]

1 hour ago, Sirabot said:

Riven means Fractured or torn apart. I think it means us more than the mod.

Clever.

I unlocked my quest reward and it was for the Amprex, which was cool. It also had utterly crap stats, which was not so cool and not really unexpected.

So.

I'm not going to bother with this subsystem as it stands now. DE is already looking at changes, so we'll keep an eye on it and deal with it on that basis. In the meantime, I'm going to do what I normally do in the game and wait on the new PA, which interests me a great deal more than the riven mods.

Personally, I don't see them as necessary. I can do everything in the game as it is just fine right now. I don't need these. I wouldn't mind a few cool ones for some under-appreciated weapons, but the system is way too random and the kuva mechanics...ehhh...I haven't really made any attempt to farm this stuff, but not looking forward to it as it stands now.

I think the kuva should be a rare byproduct of stuff you already do in the game, not something discreet that has to be farmed in certain locations. I get the queen(s) and the siphon thing, but this is an orokin artifact and should have some method of access besides the very narrow presentation it has now /coughorokintowers/cough.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Sloan441
Second thoughts...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

22 minutes ago, Emulad0or said:

 

It has endgame (void survival still exist, and at least now it gives you a relic that you can choose the reward later and not  a useless fang blade after 2 hours there), and if you are stronger than that, why do you even care for better mods? It's just more meaningless numbers that will still do the exact same thing. Try out some weaker and out the meta stuff on the endgame if you want some challenge.

running survival for a few minutes to get a relic is not a proper end game. There isn't even a real benefit to staying long.

 

11 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

So one of the main draws of the game isn't farming for the best gear? I see this argument alot about Riven mods and I'll riposte with my usual reply. Prime frames aren't "required" either. What you play with isn't the point as you will be one shotting everything whether you are in Vauban or Vauban Prime. So why was old void RNG so bad that it was changed by DE? If it those items weren't "required" then people didn't HAVE to do the same mission over and over again farming for the prime they wanted.

But DE agreed that they wanted the item and the Grind was so bad we lost the void (arguably the best part of Warframe).  So the argument of "you don't need that shiney new thing you want" didn't work then and DE agreed that you DID need that shiny new thing.

 

Riven mods are the Shiny new thing. People want to have access to them. They don't want an endless repetitive method of farming them (kuva farming) just like they didn't want void. Now to Kuva farm you have to capture or exterminate over and over on Sedna (to be most effective). How is this not worse than old void farming?

Yep, farming isn't inherently bad. People tend to want to do it in looting games. The problem is bland, mindless, and overly long grinding.I want to farm tough enemies to get a new shiny; I don't want to farm push-overs for hours to get a forma blueprint.