Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[SaurusRex]

I don't know about should, but I'd prefer without. It clashes with the iliac syandana :[

[Guest]

Valkyrie prime uses the same gold-bits-tacked-onto-the-standard-frame art design as all the other primes because that permits DE to make the most money.  It's that simple.  Basing the prime on the gersemi skin would mean that all tennogen and market skins for the normal frame would not work on the prime variant because the gersemi uses its own high poly model.  It'd disincentivize people from buying any skin for valkyr, deluxe, immortal, or tennogen.  For DE, profit > retcons. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by Guest

[DarthValkyr]

Meh, I am sticking with Gersemi anyways. They should just make that tail an attachment. Two birds, one stone that way.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

slapping gold parts onto gersemi could have been just as easy , and tennogen has problems with primes in general already so meh 

the gersemi skin is actually close in design as it was derived from vanilla model , in dev we even saw i think steve make it or start to last year, could be simpler if de on all tennogen revert the model to vanilla instead of hosting it onto prime model 

[BrazilianJoe]

added partial results to OP.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Domesticon said:

You do realize the Orokin were dead hundreds, if not thousands of years before the Corpus were even really a thing, yes? Valkyr Prime existed long before the Corpus were around, and that the order of Valkyr would essentially be: Valkyr Prime>Gersemi Valkyr (When the Tenno attempted to recreate Valkyr Prime with inferior technology)> Valkyr (AFTER the Corpus, namely Alad V, partially dissassembled her).

Actually, some of the lore in the symaris targets shows that the corpus were around at the end of the Orokin era and in fact designed the original occulists as weapons against the sentients, before the empire resorted to tenno.  The occulists are the stronger technology that got turned against the orokin by their enemies.

[Kinetos]

Valkyr Prime wasn't tortured by the Orokin. 

"A proud fighter emerges unscarred by time or malice."

[Unbeholden]

Looking at the announcement thread for Valkyr prime I think it's safe to say that some people are not too enthused at the design of Valkyr prime with a common theme being it's lack of resemblence to the Gersemi skin and the bonds etc, etc.

In my opinion offering a "prime deluxe skin" would be a win-win situation:

On twitter a dev said it wouldn't be fair to make the Gersemi skin look "Primy" and I'm interpreting that as being making an additional skin for the frame.

Tweet is here if you want the source:

However if you consider that no other warframe has a deluxe skin that differs so vastly from the default AND has a lore significance to it (that i know of), you easily have the justification to why this could be an exception to the standard or a starting point to offer new prime skins.

Now it doesn't take a genius to deduce I am no fan of the current prime skin but offering this proposed "Gersemi Prime" as a deluxe skin on the Valkyr Prime could come with a hefty platinum price tag, 500 just to throw out a number for an example.

 

Ingame descriptions could be as follows:

Valkyr Prime: "Resassembled based on accumulated knowledge Valkyr Prime was rebuilt to the best of Ordis's ability but time and Alad V's experimentation have taken a toll."

"Gersemi" Prime: "Extrapolating the prime modifications of Valkyr over the Gersemi pattern reveals her true form unblemished by Alad V's experimentation, unfortunately the rage still remains."

Obviously the "Gersemi Prime" skin could only be bought if you own Valkyr Prime and making another pre-requisite of having the standard Gersemi skin could fit into the mini-lore/story of Valkyr.

 

In short you get to sell Valkyr Prime in the Prime access, not be committed to making more alternate prime skins unless you want to, have people who like the standard Valkyr and Gersemi happy and you get to sell the new skin for more profit. Also it would completely showcase Valkyr from Prime to fall and get rid of the lore conflict that wasn't exactly addressed in the dev stream.

 

[OniDax]

They aren't going to make a deluxe skin for the Prime version.

[NightmareT12]

There's no need for one, it's still explainable, it's still salvable.

Man, I really wish that skin never released at all now, jeez.

[Stonehenge]

I reaaally doubt they would ever try this, the "Prime Deluxe" concept skin. And i m honnestly not so convinced it's a good idea.

I would prefer they add a better compatibility between Tennogen and prime, like removing prime parts when we swapp to another skin. (Hi Rhino Graxx Prime :P)

I'm also a bit disappointed that the lore behind Valkyr is basically smashed by market law, but what's done is done.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Stonehenge

[Kyryo]

Basically you are suggesting them to create a platinum farm. Interesting point ! lets make them pay 500 plats for a skin, and make them have a 250plat skin as requisite to use it ! PROFIT

[Azur_Fenix]

4 hours ago, pauli133 said:

I think people have an unhealthy fascination with that tail.

Tail jobs my man, tail jobs.

 

[Fast_98]

So couldn't it be possible that Valkyr Prime had those arm attachments to  make her claws stronger (orkin technology) and the Gersemi version of her being the mass production version didn't have them because of them being to expensive or something. Maybe  when Alad experimented on Valkyr he was trying to replicate the primed version? May that why scarred valkyr has those arm attachments? 

PS: OR DE smart enough to make sure Valkyr Primes doesn't look exactly like the  Gersemi version because they want people to buy the skin with the primed version. Like why would I buy a frame skin when I could just farm the primed version that look like the 200 plat skin?

Edited November 21, 2016 by Fast_98

[Sanngridr]

I don't think that a new skin is necessary.
In my vision:
> Gersemi skin reffers to the ~vanilla~ Valkyr that got captured and tortured by Alad, the Valkyr created by Tennos.
> Prime Valkyr comes from a time before Gersemi Valkyr, as a Orokin creation, so they don't have the same model, like we have now Primes and Regular warframes with a bit of modification in its design from Orokin to Tenno technology.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

So couldn't it be possible that Valkyr Prime had those arm attachments to  make her claws stronger (orkin technology) and the Gersemi version of her being the mass production version didn't have them because of them being to expensive or something. Maybe  when Alad experimented on Valkyr he was trying to replicate the primed version? May that why scarred valkyr has those arm attachments? 

PS: OR DE smart enough to make sure Valkyr Primes doesn't look exactly like the  Gersemi version because they want people to buy the skin with the primed version. Like why would I buy a frame skin when I could just farm the primed version that look like the 200 plat skin?

last part makes sense

[ZodiacShinryu]

They could simply add an accessory slot to add a long tail (maybe remove the arm attachments though unlikely because they are probably part of the model), then it will more or less be close enough. Maybe give it to Baro... (along with Nekros Mortos Prime...)

[Fast_98]

1 minute ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

last part makes sense

Thx and I know Ithat consider harsh that DE would do that but in the end of the day they are a business (a nice one but a business).

[Qianna]

13 minutes ago, Sanngridr said:

I don't think that a new skin is necessary.
In my vision:
> Gersemi skin reffers to the ~vanilla~ Valkyr that got captured and tortured by Alad, the Valkyr created by Tennos.
> Prime Valkyr comes from a time before Gersemi Valkyr, as a Orokin creation, so they don't have the same model, like we have now Primes and Regular warframes with a bit of modification in its design from Orokin to Tenno technology.

Then it makes absolutely no sense as to why the Prime Valkyr that preceded the "Alad V Valkyr" is a look-a-like in so many ways. It would make more sense that the Prime Valkyr would resemble a more refined version of the Gersemi Valkyr, since the Tenno are always inspired by Orokin in weaponcraft and armorcraft.

To my belief the Prime versions of our "regular" frames are built by found blueprints of the original Orokin templates, and the "regular" ones are built close to them by 'memory'. That explains why the Prime versions and their counterparts are so similar. And that, again, returns us to why the Prime version is so similar to the reassembled copy of the "regular" Valkyr, and not the Tenno original - Gersemi?

Edited November 21, 2016 by Qianna

[NightmareT12]

I think that people should stop and stare at Gersemi and compare it to base Valkyr. To be honest, I think the issue here is pretending that cool skin is pre-Corpus Valkyr... Let me explain why:

If you take a good look between those, you'd expect the pre-Corpus look to be built on top of what we got as base model. Instead of that, there's various changes throughout her mesh that make no sense, the feet one being the weirdest of all.

If you take a look at her shoulders too, you'll see the back part is built on top of it, but the front's round part is missing.

And if you look further, you'll notice her helmet is smaller than the base Valkyr one, and in fact there are curves where there shouldn't be.

To be honest, I think they got a bit too carried away with the original premise, and then even more while trying to make the skin something "canon".

TL;DR: It's not Valkyr Prime the one breaking the trend, it's Gersemi Valkyr.

Edited November 21, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Stoner]

Can't wait to see what DE is going to come up with tomorrow, and hear from the trailer, if there's any. 

1 hour ago, NightmareT12 said:

It's not Valkyr Prime the one breaking the trend, it's Gersemi Valkyr.

I kind of agree with that. Though, if she doesn't have those blocks on pre-corpus, then why does she need them on the prime? The prime is breaking the trend as much as gersemi. No blocks on her prime? Everything would be fine. But gersemi being pre-corpus, her prime should at least follow its lore and design.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Stoner74

[Kinetos]

9 hours ago, Domesticon said:

You do realize the Orokin were dead hundreds, if not thousands of years before the Corpus were even really a thing, yes? Valkyr Prime existed long before the Corpus were around, and that the order of Valkyr would essentially be: Valkyr Prime>Gersemi Valkyr (When the Tenno attempted to recreate Valkyr Prime with inferior technology)> Valkyr (AFTER the Corpus, namely Alad V, partially dissassembled her).

Vauban Prime was fighting Corpus in his trailer 

1 hour ago, TheDefenestrater said:

Valkyrie prime uses the same gold-bits-tacked-onto-the-standard-frame art design as all the other primes because that permits DE to make the most money.  It's that simple.  Basing the prime on the gersemi skin would mean that all tennogen and market skins for the normal frame would not work on the prime variant because the gersemi uses its own high poly model.  It'd disincentivize people from buying any skin for valkyr, deluxe, immortal, or tennogen.  For DE, profit > retcons. 

Those skins would just use the standard model. 

[NightmareT12]

32 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Can't wait to see what DE is going to come up with tomorrow, and ear from the trailer, if there's any. 

I kind of agree with that. Though, if she doesn't have those blocks on pre-corpus, then why does she need them on the prime? The prime is breaking the trend as much as gersemi. No blocks on her prime? Everything would be fine. But gersemi being pre-corpus, her prime should at least follow its lore and design.

I don't really expect anything from the trailer in that regard -- it's a cool marketing move with Ballas' actor giving you insight as to why the Warframe was created, why theme was chosen. Nothing less, nothing more. Voiceline must be recorded from God knows how long ago.

It's pretty simple: The design comes before the lore. We needed attachments for the attachments, so they transformed the restraints into ornaments/armor stuff.

The thing is, the deluxe skin is already not really following the visual elements presented by Valkyr, wheras the Prime is (again, I'm talking about her basic "anatomic" stuff). So it's easier to disregard the Deluxe Skin as something else, and then create something new for Valkyr, than it would be to turn crazy trying to explain all these differences.

In the end the biggest mistake was to make the deluxe skin pre-Prime, and not otherwise. If they had waited, we'd have a clear visual design of where to go in all regards.

Edited November 21, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Stoner]

31 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I don't really expect anything from the trailer in that regard -- it's a cool marketing move with Ballas' actor giving you insight as to why the Warframe was created, why theme was chosen. Nothing less, nothing more. Voiceline must be recorded from God knows how long ago.

It's pretty simple: The design comes before the lore. We needed attachments for the attachments, so they transformed the restraints into ornaments/armor stuff.

The thing is, the deluxe skin is already not really following the visual elements presented by Valkyr, wheras the Prime is (again, I'm talking about her basic "anatomic" stuff). So it's easier to disregard the Deluxe Skin as something else, and then create something new for Valkyr, than it would be to turn crazy trying to explain all these differences.

In the end the biggest mistake was to make the deluxe skin pre-Prime, and not otherwise. If they had waited, we'd have a clear visual design of where to go in all regards.

Gersemi being different anatomically from her regular is weird indeed. And is one of the reason why i didn't like it at first. But, following the lore, "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was Gersemi Valkyr.", even if it looks different, the prime should've looked like Gersemi. And like i said in a previous post, maybe if the artist had to redo Valkyr, she would look more similar to the pre-corpus skin

Oh and I found a neat Gif of Minky doing the Gersemi helmet: http://i.imgur.com/FcceWIh.mp4. I don't remember which Devstream that was though...

Edited November 21, 2016 by Stoner74

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Stoner74 said:

Gersemi being different anatomically from her regular is weird indeed. And is one of the reason why i didn't like it at first. But, following the lore, "Before Alad V, before the experiments, there was Gersemi Valkyr.", even if it looks different, the prime should've looked like Gersemi. And like i said in a previous post, maybe if the artist had to redo Valkyr, she would look more similar to the pre-corpus skin.

Yeah, but the Lore is made by DE and they have the power to change it. They're GODS. *kneels and bows before them*

No, but really, the lore comes after the design. In the end if our Lead Artist did design her after the base model... I'm going to trust that he made so for a good reason. Which is why I'm saying they should've waited and make the Prime first, then "tone it down" as I say.