Mesa possible 'rework'

[ReniLuce]

When Mesa got a rework about Peacemaker, the change was more than necessary, cause the way Peacemaker worked was OP with no means.

The Problem is how Peacemaker works now. With every enemy killed her Circle of attention gets smaller

Range Mods are useless in this case:

1. They only help for 2-3 more enemies
2. They are useless for all 4 abilities in any other way!

Furthermore Mesa's first ability is pretty much useless. I know with high Crit Weapons its potential is over 1.6k Dmg, but with Power-creep being so strong it is only a waste of Energy.

Ability 2-3 work perfectly fine from my point of view.

Possible suggestions for Solution

Peacemaker:
Most important is, Peacemaker shall never get as OP as it was again... My Suggestions:

1. Make the Circle midsize from the start, but static from there on.
2. OR give us the possibility to zoom in while using peacemaker (Zoom-Mods on Secondaries should influence this).
3. OR add a Syndicate Augment Mod with the following effect: Peacemakers-Circle is small from the start but grows with every enemie killed. When no enemies killed it shrinks again until it is at the smallest again
    

Additional adds for Peacemaker:

• Syndicate Augment Mod or general rework, that let us move while in Peacemaker (Just let us move with no additional down or upsides, one wasted Mod slot is enough if not a generall rework at all)
• Furis with Lifesteall Mod: This Mod doesnt work on Mesa, would be great if it would, but might be to OP .... but it would be great

Ballistic Battery:
My only suggestion here would a great rework, based on the Abilities from Ivara and Vaubans after rework.

Make her 1 a cycled ability where we add additional effects to our Secondary. (Secondary would be enough and the most balanced here and at the same time work in symbioses with Peacemaker)

Ability Costs and mechanics:

Circle by holding down the 1 Button and activate with a single click on 1.
Activation-cost: 50 energy
Duration: 15s / 20s / 25s / 30s

Possible effects:

• Concussion Rounds, hits may ragdoll enemies (5% / 10% / 15% / 20%)
• Heat/Cold/Toxic/Electric Rounds (Element Rounds), no additional damage but one of the base element effect may occurs with every shot (15% / 20% / 25% / 30%)
• Ricochet Rounds, shots may ricochet to other enemies close to the target (15% / 20% / 25% / 30%)
• Punch Through Rounds, shots may pierce through the target and hit enemies in line (1.2 / 1.5 / 1.8 / 2.1)
• Healing Rounds, shots may heal your Teammates when shot on them (5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of Weapon damage healed)

It would be astonishing if this could become a thing.

Please let me hear your Opinion and possible suggestion, I may add them to the top post ;) But most importantly keep it constructive and balanced :)

 

P.S.: I am not a nativ english speaker, which means I am sry for every single mistake in my post :(

Edited November 24, 2016 by ReniMuffin

[Xaero]

21 minutes ago, ReniMuffin said:

Peacemaker:

Most important is, Peacemaker shall never get as OP as it was again...

Press 4, hold LMB, open steam overlay and go get yourself a tea. It's not OP, it's just broken.

Being able to wipe out every single enemy in your sight in less than a second before they even reach their shooting range at a small energy cost (with the right modding) is OP. That's what Peacemaker is now. One of the most powerful ultimates in the game. Ash is getting nerfed partly because of players crying they don't get to kill anyone with Ash player in their team. Well Mesa leaves Ash players crying because she kills everyone before Ash even starts jumping.

 

Mesa is perfectly fine as she is now.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Ksaero

[TARINunit9]

25 minutes ago, ReniMuffin said:

1. They are useless for all 4 abilities in any other way!

Power Range helps her 2 by snagging enemies from further away

[ReniLuce]

2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

Power Range helps her 2 by snagging enemies from further away

That is not true, Peacemaker is maxed on 50m, no modding possible

[Pro3Display]

13 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Mesa is perfectly fine as she is now.

Mesa was perfectly fine even before nerf, it's a matter of point of view

Edited November 24, 2016 by Pro3Display

[TARINunit9]

6 minutes ago, ReniMuffin said:

That is not true, Peacemaker is maxed on 50m, no modding possible

I said "her 2", not "her, too". Her 2 is Shooting Gallery

[Xaero]

4 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

Mesa was perfectly fine even before nerf, it's a matter of point of view

Two facts: it didn't require actual playing (that is a problem to DE as seen in every rework so far) and it was useless in high levels because of moderate damage. I don't understand why moving the crosshair (just moving, no precise aiming needed) is such a problem to many players.

[Ravenwulfe]

28 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Two facts: it didn't require actual playing (that is a problem to DE as seen in every rework so far) and it was useless in high levels because of moderate damage. I don't understand why moving the crosshair (just moving, no precise aiming needed) is such a problem to many players.

From what I've learned, people seem to have this idea that if something is fun it must be OP. Despite the fact that once enemies start getting some strength to them even if your weapons are decently geared, you are not mowing them down with peacemaker at any decent rate, especially with the energy cost concerns, then add into that the focus lens that results in a smaller area you effect, and the idea that you can kill enemies before they begin shooting; maybe if you are only going until the first time you are told you can extract that might be true, but when you are staring down the 25 or 30 minute mark, that's a whole other ballgame at that point.

 

I've noted a few times that when I get called OP it's usually by people that never stick around past the first extraction opportunity even if I hardly used peacemaker or I was using it in one area covering a location. Mesa is my favorite frame, no doubt about that, but that's cause I love the whole cowgirl aesthetic since I always loved the old west. Though, with the crying about her now, I am sure there will be some reworking again because having fun with something is not allowed unless you are throwing tons of blades or making tons of lag I guess.

[Pro3Display]

49 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Two facts: it didn't require actual playing (that is a problem to DE as seen in every rework so far) and it was useless in high levels because of moderate damage. I don't understand why moving the crosshair (just moving, no precise aiming needed) is such a problem to many players.

fact: moving mouse is not a problem, problem was people who was annoyed that they needed to move the mouse while mesa can do without it =D

Edited November 24, 2016 by Pro3Display

[ReniLuce]

3 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I said "her 2", not "her, too". Her 2 is Shooting Gallery

Okay my fault :)

SADLY you all only talk about the "Peacemaker" thing in order to state your Opinion on Mesa in general, but I wrote more than that :(
I didn't wanted this tobe a "OP this ...Not OP that ..." more constructive talk about the states changes itself would be great :) Mostly about Ballistic Battery ;)

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

mesa sure could use a rework.

secondary weapon effects on peacemaker made it over the top OP imo. mechanic wise it's much better than before, tho. its field of view rewidening when pausing mouse button press would be fair i think.

ballistic battery is pretty much just there. it hardly even feels like a "skill". i guess this one most would agree upon.

shatter shield is OP, too... yep, i said it. especially for such a high DPS frame it's just unwarranted. it's a rather uninspried defensive skill (press 3 and forget) which makes you almost invinvible to most factions just like that.

overall she needs a tad toning down. once ash will be nerfed she will be the new ez mode everyone will flock to. you'll see...

[ReniLuce]

7 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

shatter shield is OP, too... yep, i said it. especially for such a high DPS frame it's just unwarranted. it's a rather uninspried defensive skill (press 3 and forget) which makes you almost invinvible to most factions just like that.

This can only be base on MidTerm Mission, cause in Endcontent this ability is perfectly balanced. Bombards one hit you even with it, ALL Status effects bypass this ability, Melee aswell and more ... no this ability is with no means OP from my point of view

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just wait for ash's rework to launch, everybody who spammed ash's bladestorm are going to go to mesa and spam peacemaker and complain she needs a nerf like a bunch of Idiots.

[ReniLuce]

1 hour ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

Just wait for ash's rework to launch, everybody who spammed ash's bladestorm are going to go to mesa and spam peacemaker and complain she needs a nerf like a bunch of Idiots.

I never understood why Ash needed a rework, he is only "OP" in Missions with MidTear Enemies to be honest (i never had fun playing Ash anyway) ... -.- They should just leave him as he is

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

12 hours ago, ReniMuffin said:

Peacemaker:

It should work exactly like it does, except it should not root you in place.

13 minutes ago, ReniMuffin said:

I never understood why Ash needed a rework, he is only "OP" in Missions with MidTear Enemies to be honest (i never had fun playing Ash anyway) ... -.- They should just leave him as he is

DE wants to get rid on anything resembling a nuke so they can increase grind. I am predicting that they will be coming for Speed Nova next.

[Insizer]

14 hours ago, Pro3Display said:

Mesa was perfectly fine even before nerf, it's a matter of point of view

I agree, the only issue I have is her first ability which I say has terrible mechanics.

[Yonm]

It's perfect the way it is now. It scales better and requires actual effort to use rather than holding LMB brainlessly. The reticle decrease comes with a damage multiplier so you can single out high-priority targets. You can also just move your cursor more to kill the things you want or simply recast Peacemaker to get the wider range. Also, range benefits shooting gallery which is pretty much essential on Mesa for CC.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Yonm

[tris1]

I like the ballistic battery idea, I would defiantly start using it if it had something like that.

Defiantly needs something for that ability its not even worth a thought about it as it currently stands.

Not going to comment on peacemaker always causes problems with people saying its OP or NOT

[VonDodo]

On ‎24‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:36 AM, Ksaero said:

Press 4, hold LMB, open steam overlay and go get yourself a tea. It's not OP, it's just broken.

Being able to wipe out every single enemy in your sight in less than a second before they even reach their shooting range at a small energy cost (with the right modding) is OP. That's what Peacemaker is now. One of the most powerful ultimates in the game. Ash is getting nerfed partly because of players crying they don't get to kill anyone with Ash player in their team. Well Mesa leaves Ash players crying because she kills everyone before Ash even starts jumping.

 

Mesa is perfectly fine as she is now.

I won't debate if its OP or not.

But your point about being OP are wrong:

The ash comparison:

Ash complaint is about being invulnerable while performing it, and allowing to recover shields (it won t change) that makes you immortal. On top of that you have to add no movement impairing and MOST of all ignoring armor.

Add also stats and other more than viable skills that adds a lot.

 

Mesa is static, doesn t bypass armor and can still be hit while having no shield and needing LoS. Also there is an activation cost. She basically exists only for her 4 that ALSO doesn't work on many targets.

 

longstory short.

Ash is and will be more versatile for lot of reasons.

Mesa is a situational onetrickpony ... her lack of versatility makes her balanced as a frame.

Reason why  today as Tomorrow you will have plenty reasons to choose bertween Ash and Mesa according to missions

 

Its the same reason why you can't compare Loki to Ivara....their stealth serves different purposes when you learn it you stop using ivara as a bad loki replacement.

 

But OP is right also... i'd rather have a taunt on her 1st than  what she has now. and her 2 is actually so random to be UP.

[Xaero]

1 minute ago, VonDodo said:

I won't debate if its OP or not.

But your point about being OP are wrong:

The ash comparison:

Ash complaint is about being invulnerable while performing it, and allowing to recover shields (it won t change) that makes you immortal. On top of that you have to add no movement impairing and MOST of all ignoring armor.

Add also stats and other more than viable skills that adds a lot.

 

Mesa is static, doesn t bypass armor and can still be hit while having no shield and needing LoS. Also there is an activation cost. She basically exists only for her 4 that ALSO doesn't work on many targets.

 

longstory short.

Ash is and will be more versatile for lot of reasons.

Mesa is a situational onetrickpony ... her lack of versatility makes her balanced as a frame.

Reason why  today as Tomorrow you will have plenty reasons to choose bertween Ash and Mesa according to missions

 

Its the same reason why you can't compare Loki to Ivara....their stealth serves different purposes when you learn it you stop using ivara as a bad loki replacement.

 

But OP is right also... i'd rather have a taunt on her 1st than  what she has now. and her 2 is actually so random to be UP.

By OP I mean overpowered, her ult is very strong. But in a good way - as a reward for proper modding and active using. I don't want it to be nerfed.

[THegolo123]

Tenno you obviously have crappy aim so much so that you want aimbot on mesa and Ballistic Battery 1k+ dmg is added to the base of the guns dmg, for example if a gun does 10 base dmg it would do 1010 base dmg without any extra mods on pistol, if anything her 1 is op

[Pro3Display]

49 minutes ago, THegolo123 said:

Tenno you obviously have crappy aim so much so that you want aimbot on mesa and Ballistic Battery 1k+ dmg is added to the base of the guns dmg, for example if a gun does 10 base dmg it would do 1010 base dmg without any extra mods on pistol, if anything her 1 is op

oh look i empowered one bullet from my soma clip how useful versus all those 100 lvl140 chargers

Edited November 25, 2016 by Pro3Display

[RazrOutlaw]

She is fine as she is right now.

[THegolo123]

9 hours ago, Pro3Display said:

oh look i empowered one bullet from my soma clip how useful versus all those 100 lvl140 it's for heavier units damn it

[Matt89Connor]

 

Boy, every Warframe, has one of the 4 skills, weak and only useful against low levels (up to 40) (unfortunately some Frame morethen 1  ), if the DE did a rework of the first Mesa skills, then it would ruin the other two ability to balance,  the number 2 and number 3:
-the number two right now, is in the top 5 of the best CC skills, and if you want, you can even do a build focusing only on it.
-the number 3, is a life-saving, and without it, would not exist Mesa XD.
about the ulti, according to me, the only problem is the cost per second too excessive.
I hope I was explicit and that you have understood my point of view :).