Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I remember that I would use tipedo with prime fury and quickening. A full BS would take 1 animation, and 18 enemies would be dead. Now it's just slow, clumsy, expensive and completely irrelevant. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

 

 Ah good old fashioned DENIAL. He wasn't the best at clearing crowds, but he was decent at clearing crowds, now BS is pointless. And Ash only got nerfed, the only positive change he got was be able to cast Smoke Screen on the move.

Why not P4TW? simple: it's terrible game design, but current Failstorm is even WORSE than old BS, because at least Old BS did it's job for a reasonable cost instead of being pointless AND with inflated cost.

The word you looking for is "Nostalgia", but this is not that, it's actually my mathematical proof and cold hard logic vs your delusional bullcr*p that I can debunk pretty much on every comment.

Heh, who is in denial here exactly? Was Saryn not part of a fixed meta back then? Did mesa not NoScope360 each and every one of his targets by the time he got his Bladestorm Augument and thus gained access to multipliers at all? It was decent, in an envirement where he was the absolute worst choice for the job. You say it's crap? I say i provided mathematical proof that he's now the best at his job in the current envirement where none of these P4TW playstyles were allowed to stay.

Except you come around and find some actuall proof for this 90% cap which doesn't include your UI showing numbers under the influence of mods that do not affect it that is.

[Nazrethim]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Heh, who is in denial here exactly? Was Saryn not part of a fixed meta back then? Did mesa not NoScope360 each and every one of his targets by the time he got his Bladestorm Augument and thus gained access to multipliers at all? It was decent, in an envirement where he was the absolute worst choice for the job. You say it's crap? I say i provided mathematical proof that he's now the best at his job in the current envirement where none of these P4TW playstyles were allowed to stay.

He is cr*p in the CURRENT enviroment. Sure, Saryn needs a setup, but once she uses her Miasma she wipes the floor, Mesa now requires aiming, but she also clears the floor and Peacemaker's damage was buffed. BS is less effective than casting Smoke Screen and using a goodish melee, not Riven-powered melee, just goodish melee. Blade Storm is effectively pointless to use besides highlighting enemies in dark areas to make easier to shoot them or to take screenshots of it's animations (provided you aren't a faintly visible blob of smoke or other invisibility related buff is on at the time of casting).

You have yet to prove mathematically that current iteration is better than the previous, which you can't because it's worse in every aspect.

Quote

Except you come around and find some actuall proof for this 90% cap which doesn't include your UI showing numbers under the influence of mods that do not affect it that is.

I'm scouting 2yo threads looking for it, or was it a chat I had in game? Whatever, it's moot really because just accounting for Primed Fury is enough (or hell, not even that, as many still don't have that mod), as most players won't have a double set of Arcane Strike, and nobody on their sane mind would use Quickening, Rivens are worthless for balance comparisons because they aren't balanced and accounting for Warcry and Speed is pointless because Ash himself cannot cast those abilities.

And I didn't say berserker affected it, read again the comment, I wrote that as an hypotethical situation, which you failed to understand because you aren't thinking logically.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I mean if DE won't fix current BS or give ash a completely new 4? Then at least a good comprise could be DE should increase the range of the smoke screen stagger and after smoke screen is cast enemies are auto marked that are within range? Also revert BS energy usage back to the way it was before. 

In conclave in could be the old BS. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

He is cr*p in the CURRENT enviroment. Sure, Saryn needs a setup, but once she uses her Miasma she wipes the floor, Mesa now requires aiming, but she also clears the floor and Peacemaker's damage was buffed. BS is less effective than casting Smoke Screen and using a goodish melee, not Riven-powered melee, just goodish melee. Blade Storm is effectively pointless to use besides highlighting enemies in dark areas to make easier to shoot them or to take screenshots of it's animations (provided you aren't a faintly visible blob of smoke or other invisibility related buff is on at the time of casting).

You have yet to prove mathematically that current iteration is better than the previous, which you can't because it's worse in every aspect.

I'm scouting 2yo threads looking for it, or was it a chat I had in game? Whatever, it's moot really because just accounting for Primed Fury is enough (or hell, not even that, as many still don't have that mod), as most players won't have a double set of Arcane Strike, and nobody on their sane mind would use Quickening, Rivens are worthless for balance comparisons because they aren't balanced and accounting for Warcry and Speed is pointless because Ash himself cannot cast those abilities.

And I didn't say berserker affected it, read again the comment, I wrote that as an hypotethical situation, which you failed to understand because you aren't thinking logically.

Saryn? How would she do that in your oppinion? Sure her concept is great but all the poison scaling which is still described in the wiki is entirely broken, what brings her damage, no, rather the entirety of her kit down to minor ticks and arguably nice status and Mesa is about as effective as ash is without the finisher damage backing her up. But ye. "Cr*p".

One set is enough rly. Bought one for an average of 20p/strike just recently...

And the details are important on that one since you're actually trying to argue with pseudo caps using hypothetical values here...

[Nazrethim]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 

One set is enough rly. Bought one for an average of 20p/strike just recently...

Because the arcane is "optional",, right?

Quote

And the details are important on that one since you're actually trying to argue with pseudo caps using hypothetical values here...

Oh yeah, the ONLY hypotetical part I mentioned, and you think've won. Meanwhile, keep ignoring all the other actual data and math I previously mentioned. 200 to 800% cost increase and 200% increase in cutscene aren't hypothetical, those are the actual values of the nerf.

You whole argument boils down to "Ash is fine because he's fine" and "But with a [very specific mod set up] he can do fine"

Where IS your proof that he is "good" as it is now? Nowhere, I proved you wrong time and time again.

Also:

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 Mesa is about as effective as ash is without the finisher damage backing her up. But ye. "Cr*p".

Except Mesa can do that for a fraction of the energy, in about 2-4s instead of 15+

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

Because the arcane is "optional",, right?

Oh yeah, the ONLY hypotetical part I mentioned, and you think've won. Meanwhile, keep ignoring all the other actual data and math I previously mentioned. 200 to 800% cost increase and 200% increase in cutscene aren't hypothetical, those are the actual values of the nerf.

You whole argument boils down to "Ash is fine because he's fine" and "But with a [very specific mod set up] he can do fine"

Where IS your proof that he is "good" as it is now? Nowhere, I proved you wrong time and time again.

up to 175% speed buff vs 50% you had back then with 2 clones and energy cost that is just as manageable as it was back then if you're not defying logic ~

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

up to 175% speed buff vs 50% you had back then with 2 clones and energy cost that is just as manageable as it was back then if you're not defying logic ~

Show the math behind your claim kid. It's the only way to find out.

Also, on different set ups. Max Efficiency, Default and Lowest Possible Efficiency. VS at least 3 situations: 10 enemies, 18 enemies (old bs cap) and 50 enemies (current BS cap), calculate the Attack Time of both applying the same benefits to both (otherwise any comparison is pointless) both on Maximum attack speed, default attack speed and lowest attack speed. Account for both 1 2 and 3 marks cost. Also account the average energy per enemy used and the total energy used.

Let's see if your argument holds up to actual math.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Show the math behind your claim kid. It's the only way to find out.

Also, on different set ups. Max Efficiency, Default and Lowest Possible Efficiency. VS at least 3 situations: 10 enemies, 18 enemies (old bs cap) and 50 enemies (current BS cap), calculate the Attack Time of both applying the same benefits to both (otherwise any comparison is pointless) both on Maximum attack speed, default attack speed and lowest attack speed. Account for both 1 2 and 3 marks cost. Also account the average energy per enemy used and the total energy used.

Let's see if your argument holds up to actual math.

 

18 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 

 

Those add up to a bonus to 50% attack speed and would you regulary get stuck on some kinda eximus unit, what slowed you down A LOT on anything above low levels. But screw Finisher damage for mid-high level content am i right?

Body count wasn't a thing eather so no, also no propper melee multipliers for old ash. Just a lousy argument that couldn't compare.

 

The melee i now have includes  speed bonus from primed Fury (55%), Quickening (20%), Arcane strike (20%) and my riven (80%) at all times if i wish to, what adds up to a totall boost of 175%.

Be aware that the shadows are still a thing that do hits per second on enemys that require them in the first place. Also Boosted.

 

 

Simple addition bro.

[Nazrethim]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 

Simple addition bro.

Nope, give me the actual numbers. If you really think you are right and I'm wrong, show me the numbers to prove it.

What's wrong McFly? Chicken?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Nope, give me the actual numbers. If you really think you are right and I'm wrong, show me the numbers to prove it.

What's wrong McFly? Chicken?

Actuall numbers? Do you need an explenation how percentuall numbers affect time intervalls?

 

Ok, real simple.

An animation that takes 3 seconds to play at 100% speed.

You add about 200%, you're at 300% now.

The same animation takes 1 second to play.

 

[Nazrethim]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Actuall numbers? Do you need an explenation how percentuall numbers affect time intervalls?

 

Ok, real simple.

An animation that takes 3 seconds to play at 100% speed.

You add about 200%, you're at 300% now.

The same animation takes 1 second to play.

 

Bravo, now do that with the actual data from both old and current bs. Using all the stuff I mentioned before, and in case you cannot scroll up for some reason:

--

Also, on different set ups. Max Efficiency, Default and Lowest Possible Efficiency. VS at least 3 situations: 10 enemies, 18 enemies (old bs cap) and 50 enemies (current BS cap), calculate the Attack Time of both applying the same benefits to both (otherwise any comparison is pointless) both on Maximum attack speed, default attack speed and lowest attack speed. Account for both 1 2 and 3 marks cost. Also account the average energy per enemy used and the total energy used.

--

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

23 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Bravo, now do that with the actual data from both old and current bs. Using all the stuff I mentioned before, and in case you cannot scroll up for some reason:

--

Also, on different set ups. Max Efficiency, Default and Lowest Possible Efficiency. VS at least 3 situations: 10 enemies, 18 enemies (old bs cap) and 50 enemies (current BS cap), calculate the Attack Time of both applying the same benefits to both (otherwise any comparison is pointless) both on Maximum attack speed, default attack speed and lowest attack speed. Account for both 1 2 and 3 marks cost. Also account the average energy per enemy used and the total energy used.

--

^^ My my, why don't i make a realistic example instead

 

Old ash is running a group with a mesa

Mesa kills the entire map except for a single eximus unit by the time he's done with his first attack.

He hits twice and then continues to attack the single eximus unit over and over again, for the totallity of 16 additional times, for the power cost of 25 energy. He regains the energy from an orb.

Meanwhile current ash marks like 10 with a simple camera movement as he melee's the first. He triggers naramon, the cost is lowered to 2,5 energy/mark.

He activates bladestorm as Mesa furiously attacks the eximus, the priority target. He kills 8 with 10 hits (eximus was hit 3times due to mesas effort), the melee and marking consumed time but we'll set it at about 5-8 hits so the whole thing didn't only kill more enemys but it also took about 1/3 of the time old ash was stuck on the eximus unit. It cost him 25energy. He collects 3 orbs and regains more then he started with.

 

"Math". You're permanently refering to ideal situations that were impossible to acchieve for ash in the old envirement. That's Nostalgia(thx). Not Math.

Edited August 13, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

^^ My my, why don't i make a realistic example instead

 

Old ash is running a group with a mesa

Mesa kills the entire map except for a single eximus unit by the time he's done with his first attack.

He hits twice and then continues to attack the single eximus unit over and over again, for the totallity of 16 additional times, for the power cost of 25 energy. He regains the energy from an orb.

Meanwhile current ash marks like 10 with a simple camera movement as he melee's the first. He triggers naramon, the cost is lowered to 2,5 energy/mark.

He activates bladestorm as Mesa furiously attacks the eximus, the priority target. He kills 8 with 10 hits (eximus was hit 3times due to mesas effort), the melee and marking consumed time but we'll set it at about 5-8 hits so the whole thing didn't only kill more enemys but it also took about 1/3 of the time old ash was stuck on the eximus unit. It cost him 25energy. He collects 3 orbs and regains more then he started with.

 

"Math". You're permanently refering to ideal situations that were impossible to acchieve for ash in the old envirement. That's Nostalgia(thx). Not Math.

Chicken. Also, do you ALWAYS run with a Mesa on your team? and a Volt and Valkyr to give you Speed and Warcry? I find that unlikely.

So far you have demostrated only two things: you can't do math for sh*t and don't really know what "good game design" actually is. Stop embarrasing yourself, and other Ash fans for that matter. You are the kind of idiot who unleashed BS when there was an Eximus, instead of dispatching it with guns or a well aimed teleport.

I did that a lot because I knew if I was careless and used it with an eximus I would be stuck.

 

The ability is utter garbage in it's current stat. The old version was broken and needed to be scrapped, but was actually better in design than current one.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

It was the meta back then for public runs. That's something you can't deny if you really lived trough that time.

 

Or are we describing him in a fantastic scenario? In a different game maybe? Did you fight demons back then? You sure you ain't mixing that one up with Ninja Gaiden?

Btw, anything above essencially preschool math indeed takes the actuall envirement, rather then ideal scenarios into consideration~

Edited August 13, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It was the meta back then for public runs. That's something you can't deny if you really lived trough that time.

Because Solo play and, y'know, anything that isn't Hieracon or Akkad or (old) Draco weren't a thing.

12 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Or are we describing him in a fantastic scenario? In a different game maybe?

Nope, same game, realistic scenarios that you would know if you played something other than Bladespam Bot, which clearly you didn't, because you were (and still are) just another bladespammer (who didn't really got nerfed as they should have been, have DE bothered to rework the ability instead of nerfing it into the ground)

12 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Btw, anything above essencially preschool math indeed takes the actuall envirement, rather then ideal scenarios into consideration~

Okay. Actual enviroment. You Solo or in a group of randoms who go down all the time because they are squishy as hell. Assuming you have the intelligence to dispatch Eximi with guns or teleport.

Go ahead, do the math. Oh wait, I forgot you cannot even do basic preschool math!

[Azamagon]

Jeez @(PS4)CoolD2108, can you lay it off? You are just embarrasing yourself.

Look, Bladestorm is generally MUCH worse than before, as @Nazrethim has proven many times now; It costs WAY more energy (to the point of being unusable with default efficiency), takes way longer to perform (due to the clones not appearing immediately) and is slower to execute (due to marking), and not to mention can be nauseating to use well.

The only thing the new Bladestorm truly does better is that you don't get stuck for so long on one tough target (like Ancient Disruptors).

Conclusion: Ash needs a new and thorough rework / revisit.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Azamagon said:

Jeez @(PS4)CoolD2108, can you lay it off? You are just embarrasing yourself.

Look, Bladestorm is generally MUCH worse than before, as @Nazrethim has proven many times now; It costs WAY more energy (to the point of being unusable with default efficiency), takes way longer to perform (due to the clones not appearing immediately) and is slower to execute (due to marking), and not to mention can be nauseating to use well.

The only thing the new Bladestorm truly does better is that you don't get stuck for so long on one tough target (like Ancient Disruptors).

Conclusion: Ash needs a new and thorough rework / revisit.

name a P4TW frame that isn't, that wasn't changed from the time Ash was one as well. Ash, in contrast to all the others just remained at his core.

They, the people from DE themselfes had a different plan with the game that isn't a selection of P4TW but they liked the unique traits of Ash so they put him in a state where he provides interactivity while remaining himself and they rooted out any issues, just like the scenario i mentioned above, in the process while setting the energy cost to an adequate level for the damage, while really not making a major difference to what it cost back then since one hardly EVER got 18 hits on enemys.

I mean this rework concept...does it sound familiar to you? Is this not what people keep constantly asking for on any other rework thread? But it's bad for him to recieve the ideal? How come? ...

The power creep rose, he's just as good, if not better then he was at its peak where he was unbalanced to begin with and look at y'all people still complaining about how "bad it is".

Was it bad back then for you to have this oppinion?

You might want to lay if off yourself. Melee rivens gave him that big of a push that it just started to get ridiculous.

Edited August 13, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor etc.

·         He can`t kill in an AOE anymore.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

The corrected way to fix bladestorm is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

·         Enemies that are marked can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill as many enemies that are within his radius

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can come out of bs and revive the downed teammate.

·         Make bs set with an appropriate speed then make melee mods with fury speed up bs.

·         (OPTIONAL) Just to make 1^st ability better make it scale by melee mods e.g. toxic on melee weapon = toxic shuriken.

[(PSN)DBR87]

You know, I really like the look of Ash and the rest of his kit is fun. His only sort fall is Bladestorm, his 4. Bladestorm, as it is right now, is just a more expensive and more cumbersome version of his Teleport. I just changing Bladestorm into a Tap/Charge ability.

Tapping 4 would make Ash launch 5 extremely fast Shadow Clones in a straight line that inflict Finisher damage to everything 4 meter wide by 15 meter row for 50 Energy. Enemies caught in this attack would be knocked down and suffer bleed procs. Cost 50 energy. Castable in air.

Holding 4 would charge the ability and make the line expand out to a cone up to 180 degrees at max and extend the range to 20 meters. Damage would also increase. During the charge animation all damage from enemy attacks Ash receives is added to Bladestorm's final attack. In the charge stance Ash is immune to status effects. Ash also takes 95% reduced damage while charging Bladestorm (So he doesn't get one shotted in high levels standing there. But really, you could cast Smoke screen ahead of time.) Releasing 4 makes Ash launch Shadow Clones at all enemies in the cone instantly. Ash himself vanishes then reappears and attacks the enemy with the highest remaining health. Each clone attacks one enemy one time. Clones don't attack the enemy with the highest health. Number of Shadow Clones scales with number of enemies. Ash attacks one enemy, and always the enemy with the highest health. Ash attacks do x2 as much as his clones. Ash and Shadow Clones do finisher damage and enemies suffer bleed proc after attacks if they survive.

Bladestorm takes 2 seconds to charge and is affected by Natural Talent. Level 1 is the tap and cost 50 energy. Level 2 is the one second charge and cost 75 energy. Level 3 is the full 2 second charge and cost 100 energy.

This way Bladestorm isn't a cutscene you have to sit and watch. You can tap it quickly kill whatever is in front of you. Of you can charge it to take out a group but still don't have to have to watch Ash poke 20 enemies. Each clone hits one enemy for a ton of damage one time and so does Ash. Nice and quick.

[Nazrethim]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:

You know, I really like the look of Ash and the rest of his kit is fun. His only sort fall is Bladestorm, his 4. Bladestorm, as it is right now, is just a more expensive and more cumbersome version of his Teleport. I just changing Bladestorm into a Tap/Charge ability.

Tapping 4 would make Ash launch 5 extremely fast Shadow Clones in a straight line that inflict Finisher damage to everything 4 meter wide by 15 meter row for 50 Energy. Enemies caught in this attack would be knocked down and suffer bleed procs. Cost 50 energy. Castable in air.

Holding 4 would charge the ability and make the line expand out to a cone up to 180 degrees at max and extend the range to 20 meters. Damage would also increase. During the charge animation all damage from enemy attacks Ash receives is added to Bladestorm's final attack. In the charge stance Ash is immune to status effects. Ash also takes 95% reduced damage while charging Bladestorm (So he doesn't get one shotted in high levels standing there. But really, you could cast Smoke screen ahead of time.) Releasing 4 makes Ash launch Shadow Clones at all enemies in the cone instantly. Ash himself vanishes then reappears and attacks the enemy with the highest remaining health. Each clone attacks one enemy one time. Clones don't attack the enemy with the highest health. Number of Shadow Clones scales with number of enemies. Ash attacks one enemy, and always the enemy with the highest health. Ash attacks do x2 as much as his clones. Ash and Shadow Clones do finisher damage and enemies suffer bleed proc after attacks if they survive.

Bladestorm takes 2 seconds to charge and is affected by Natural Talent. Level 1 is the tap and cost 50 energy. Level 2 is the one second charge and cost 75 energy. Level 3 is the full 2 second charge and cost 100 energy.

This way Bladestorm isn't a cutscene you have to sit and watch. You can tap it quickly kill whatever is in front of you. Of you can charge it to take out a group but still don't have to have to watch Ash poke 20 enemies. Each clone hits one enemy for a ton of damage one time and so does Ash. Nice and quick.

Now THIS is a good nuke style Blade Storm rework idea! Well done.

A bit of nitpicking here but how would this work in Conclave? just the first uncharged part for 100 energy and damage in line with all the other ultimates?

Edited August 14, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Azamagon]

19 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

name a P4TW frame that isn't, that wasn't changed from the time Ash was one as well. Ash, in contrast to all the others just remained at his core.

They, the people from DE themselfes had a different plan with the game that isn't a selection of P4TW but they liked the unique traits of Ash so they put him in a state where he provides interactivity while remaining himself and they rooted out any issues, just like the scenario i mentioned above, in the process while setting the energy cost to an adequate level for the damage, while really not making a major difference to what it cost back then since one hardly EVER got 18 hits on enemys.

I mean this rework concept...does it sound familiar to you? Is this not what people keep constantly asking for on any other rework thread? But it's bad for him to recieve the ideal? How come? ...

The power creep rose, he's just as good, if not better then he was at its peak where he was unbalanced to begin with and look at y'all people still complaining about how "bad it is".

Was it bad back then for you to have this oppinion?

You might want to lay if off yourself. Melee rivens gave him that big of a push that it just started to get ridiculous.

Who said I was against the IDEA of the changes, or that I'm pro P4TW? It's the execution of the changes I don't like, as always.

As for some of your statemtents:
* Rooted out issues? Like allies being unable to attack the targets he and his clones are attacking? >_> Or that you can't stop the ability early?
* Energy cost is at an adequate level? You mean, like being unable to strike a reasonable amount of enemies without draining all your energy at regular power efficiency? It's far from ok in energycost, even its power considered. And I personally could OFTEN strike 18 hits in one BS; Max power range and an open area could even leave leftover targets...

That said, here are some changes I'd do to help the current Bladestorm a bit:
* When activated, the marking period has a max duration limit (say 8 seconds) and 100 energy is instantly consumed. Marking period is affected by Power Duration.
* The marking now has a slightly bigger marking reticle (think Mesa's firing reticle when at minimum size). The size of reticle could potentially (at a lesser degree than 1:1 ratio) be altered by Power Range. Same interactivity thus remains, just with a bit more aiming leeway so it can do its job (multikilling) a bit more easily (as single target killing is Teleport's job).
* When deactivated or when the marking time expires, Ash and at least 2 Shadow Clones go out to do the Bladestorming. Even better would be if there was 1 additional clone per each enemy marked beyond the first (the first which Ash himself attacks). If holdcasting while the marking period is active, the ability is cancelled instead (energy regranted?). With clones helping right away, this would bring back some of the speed it previously had, but without the easymode (due to still requiring manual marking).
* Once the ability is finished, Ash gains the ability to move IMMEDIATELY (no longer that brief moment of standing still, which is usually what makes this ability a deathsentence for him on higher levels if launched at an unfortunate moment)

And that's just for Bladestorm. Changes for his other abilities:

Smoke Screen
* Enemies staggered by Smoke Screen are also blinded (or at the very least suffer an accuracy debuff for a duration).
* Augment now causes a small smoke cloud to linger; Allies walking into it gain the invisibility (equal to the remaining cloud duration). Enemies can't see through the cloud (it breaks their LoS) and if they enter the cloud, they suffer the blinding debuff too (or the accuracy debuff) for the same duration as the remaining cloud's duration.

Teleport
* Holdcast to teleport straight forward, up to a maximum distance (more akin to Itzal's Blink, not like the current Conclave version of Teleport which requires a surface within range). Doing this holdcast teleport while aiming at a wall, will (if you manage to reach the wall) let you cling to the wall immediately for some awesome ninja action!

Shuriken
Augment aside, Shuriken is rather useless compared to his other abilities. Since Teleport is for single target damage and/or mobility, and Bladestorm is for multitarget nuking, while Smoke Screen is for survivability, Shuriken could lend itself to be more utilityfocused instead, while also doing decent damage for stealthy players. Example:
* A third shuriken is added, but this one goes straight forward and has punchthrough, rewarding accuracy
* All enemies struck by Shuriken are staggered (same as an Impact-proc), puncture-proc'd and have their armor and shields reduced (similar to the augment, but baked into the ability itself)
* Seeking Shuriken now instead causes the two homing Shuriken to bounce to up to 1/2/3/4 new targets (target amount shared between the 2 Shuriken).
* Shuriken adds +1 to the melee combo counter per enemy struck
* Shuriken's bleed damage ticks 4x faster than other bleed effects (giving it much better nuking power), while enemies unaware of Ash suffer the total bleed damage instantly. If that's not enough incentive for stealthnuking, then Shuriken striking unaware enemies could also benefit (at least partially) from the stealth multiplier bonus. This lets the ability be a decent ranged stealthkilling tool.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Azamagon
Spelling and stuff

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, Azamagon said:

.snip

could ask too what gave you impression that i'm against change? The reticle, or like, ANY sort of targeting assist i 100%. Interrupt? Might as well.

Power is ok beein on par with other 4's on a similar power level (banshee for example...hear a lot people complaining about that one too but it's radial stunlock+ damage...stay on stock efficiency and add the augument and you're empty just as fast.)

Smokebomb...meh. Not well known fact is that it allready resets all your stealth multipliers when activated, what is a decent burst similar to a blind allready. If you share it or not matters little considering how many people actually go around playing melee. They might equip melee around a valkyr or a volt should he use speed but it's not really the case for blind users and the Cc he defys anyways.

Shuriken, might as well make it 5 or 6 that each try to search for individuall targets. (Ever played Zone of the Enders? The spreading laser, that kinda animation i'd wish for.) Plus anything you've recommendet.

 

Those changes make sense, those are healthy but just saying it sucks based on pseudo mathematics, argued with ideal circumstances, ignoring it's progress until now, coming from someone who's said himself multiple times that he doesn't play it ever since the rework, that's just BS. (not refering to Bladestorm.)

Edited August 14, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Those changes make sense, those are healthy but just saying it sucks based on pseudo mathematics, argued with ideal circumstances, ignoring it's progress until now, coming from someone who's said himself multiple times that he doesn't play it ever since the rework, that's just BS. (not refering to Bladestorm.)

Prove my math is wrong with your own math.

If you are right then the numbers should back you up, regardless of mod setups.

[(PSN)FCFxVenomfang]

I didn't really mind the sit back and watch BS. Could easily solo defense with ease and I like the animations. I liked the fact that I can quickly activate it and Ash would hit the most targets nearby but now I feel like I have to scan the field and it takes a while before I activate it having whatever I am defending take some damage. I would like if there was a choice meaning if you would hold #4 it would activate the old BS and if you would just press it or tap it, it would activate the new BS and you can prioritize your targets. This is just my opinion as a solo player(don't really play with anyone).