Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[NinjasPlay4Fun]

My idea of rework is not only in ash, but in the whole system of warframes ... in the long run of course ...

I'll start with ash, my idea for the new BS is:
Ash enters the mod blade storm, as it is now, all damage done by both the weapons of ash and their skill not only mark the target, but also accumulate damage ... (Just like the 4th of Equinox), so mark no It would be more boring and meaningless, because even if your friends kill their targeted targets, you still have the damage they've accumulated; When Ash uses his 4 again, his clones will automatically attack targets within X Meters ... (This part is the choice, or he becomes invisible standing, while his clones attack, but the camera will rotate 360 degrees quickly showing clones of Ash killing ... [This solves the bug problem and long waiting in the skill] .. or Ash stays in free mode to continue the fight and accumulate more damage and help his friends)

Now the system I talked about before ... I believe Warframe needs a lot of sorting system .. Ex: Assassin, Tank, suport, etc .... I know, I know ..
The game will lose some of the flexibility of you to make a Oberon killer ...
You can even laugh, but at medium levels he has damage, sustain and group control to keep ... The point is he has a little of each and nothing helps a lot; Trinity is only focused on suport and it's good enough on that ... That's enough proof to see the need for such a system. Still do not understand where I want to go?
Okay ... What was Rhino supposed to be? A tank? DPS? Buffer?
 I think I already said a lot, I'll explain the idea of the system ...

This system would have sub-classes like: Tank, Killer, DPS, suport, Stealth.
Tank: Warframes with life / shield higher than the other classes, skills based on self-protection (Like Iron Skin)
(Barriers or forms of team protection) (Light group control)

Assassins: Fast and with a lot of damage in their abilities, but with very little life / shield. Skills based on clearing quickly (as the equinox ult when accumulating a lot of damage using range mods) (expose enemies' weaknesses) (some kind of counter attack to escape certain death)

Dps: A hybrid, Life / Medium Shield deals damage per second with your skills and
Has level group control. (Buff itself to cause damage to nearby enemies and long range) (apply status as: cut, toxico)

Suport: healing abilities, mana regen, and buffs, many buffs as well as titania

Stealth: Just like assassins, they are roles, but they have a lot of group control, distraction skills, invisibility and so on ...

Phew ... Well this not only helps in the creation of new warframes ... but also helps when equipping your mods!

[NinjasPlay4Fun]

My idea of rework is not only in ash, but in the whole system of warframes ... in the long run of course ...

I'll start with ash, my idea for the new BS is:
Ash enters the mod blade storm, as it is now, all damage done by both the weapons of ash and their skill not only mark the target, but also accumulate damage ... (Just like the 4th of Equinox), so mark no It would be more boring and meaningless, because even if your friends kill their targeted targets, you still have the damage they've accumulated; When Ash uses his 4 again, his clones will automatically attack targets within X Meters ... (This part is the choice, or he becomes invisible standing, while his clones attack, but the camera will rotate 360 degrees quickly showing clones of Ash killing ... [This solves the bug problem and long waiting in the skill] .. or Ash stays in free mode to continue the fight and accumulate more damage and help his friends)

Now the system I talked about before ... I believe Warframe needs a lot of sorting system .. Ex: Assassin, Tank, suport, etc .... I know, I know ..
The game will lose some of the flexibility of you to make a Oberon killer ...
You can even laugh, but at medium levels he has damage, sustain and group control to keep ... The point is he has a little of each and nothing helps a lot; Trinity is only focused on suport and it's good enough on that ... That's enough proof to see the need for such a system. Still do not understand where I want to go?
Okay ... What was Rhino supposed to be? A tank? DPS? Buffer?
 I think I already said a lot, I'll explain the idea of the system ...

This system would have sub-classes like: Tank, Killer, DPS, suport, Stealth.
Tank: Warframes with life / shield higher than the other classes, skills based on self-protection (Like Iron Skin)
(Barriers or forms of team protection) (Light group control)

Assassins: Fast and with a lot of damage in their abilities, but with very little life / shield. Skills based on clearing quickly (as the equinox ult when accumulating a lot of damage using range mods) (expose enemies' weaknesses) (some kind of counter attack to escape certain death)

Dps: A hybrid, Life / Medium Shield deals damage per second with your skills and
Has level group control. (Buff itself to cause damage to nearby enemies and long range) (apply status as: cut, toxico)

Suport: healing abilities, mana regen, and buffs, many buffs as well as titania

Stealth: Just like assassins, they are roles, but they have a lot of group control, distraction skills, invisibility and so on ...

Phew ... Well this not only helps in the creation of new warframes ... but also helps when equipping your mods!

[UrielColtan]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Look guys you might as well hear this now. As much as I hate to say this, let’s just call this situation it what it is. DE will not change ash, think about it when do you know of a time DE did a re-work and we didn`t like it then they changed it back? It`s never happened. When DE showed Ash in the dev stream, was it any different to how it is now? Once they changes something they won`t change it back so them asking for feedback is a lie and everyone of you should remember this when future reworks come out whether is good or bad, the only way they will change a re-work is to de-buff it like Excalibur.

The only thing they changed is how to activate bs from hold to press because of console players but even now they are not thinking about console players, at least with pc players when marking they are using their hand which is quicker but console players have to use their thumbs. If it was me I would make the aimer in the middle bigger so that it’s easier to mark enemies (this doesn’t mean I like this new bs because I don`t). Sometime it makes me wonder, I’m not even a game developer but I can come up with simple solutions.

My opinion on Bladestorm.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/728645-how-i-would-have-changed-bladestorm/#comment-8111567

That's because you give up, because you listened to the same defeatist comments that are always spouted in these topics. The key is to never let up.

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Hans.Yulian]

this is the 66th page of the feedback and i am really confused and dont get the point of what ALL people trying to suggest here, so i think i suggest that we make some kind of voting pool, like facebook. so we can get the summary of the feedback. Now the feedback:

- increase damage

- reduce marking energy

- let clone do the killing

- 1 mark to attack up to 3 time

- 1 mark will mark 2 nearby also?

[UrielColtan]

21 hours ago, DMercer said:

My idea of rework is not only in ash, but in the whole system of warframes ... in the long run of course ...

I'll start with ash, my idea for the new BS is:
Ash enters the mod blade storm, as it is now, all damage done by both the weapons of ash and their skill not only mark the target, but also accumulate damage ... (Just like the 4th of Equinox), so mark no It would be more boring and meaningless, because even if your friends kill their targeted targets, you still have the damage they've accumulated; When Ash uses his 4 again, his clones will automatically attack targets within X Meters ... (This part is the choice, or he becomes invisible standing, while his clones attack, but the camera will rotate 360 degrees quickly showing clones of Ash killing ... [This solves the bug problem and long waiting in the skill] .. or Ash stays in free mode to continue the fight and accumulate more damage and help his friends)

Now the system I talked about before ... I believe Warframe needs a lot of sorting system .. Ex: Assassin, Tank, suport, etc .... I know, I know ..
The game will lose some of the flexibility of you to make a Oberon killer ...
You can even laugh, but at medium levels he has damage, sustain and group control to keep ... The point is he has a little of each and nothing helps a lot; Trinity is only focused on suport and it's good enough on that ... That's enough proof to see the need for such a system. Still do not understand where I want to go?
Okay ... What was Rhino supposed to be? A tank? DPS? Buffer?
 I think I already said a lot, I'll explain the idea of the system ...

This system would have sub-classes like: Tank, Killer, DPS, suport, Stealth.
Tank: Warframes with life / shield higher than the other classes, skills based on self-protection (Like Iron Skin)
(Barriers or forms of team protection) (Light group control)

Assassins: Fast and with a lot of damage in their abilities, but with very little life / shield. Skills based on clearing quickly (as the equinox ult when accumulating a lot of damage using range mods) (expose enemies' weaknesses) (some kind of counter attack to escape certain death)

Dps: A hybrid, Life / Medium Shield deals damage per second with your skills and
Has level group control. (Buff itself to cause damage to nearby enemies and long range) (apply status as: cut, toxico)

Suport: healing abilities, mana regen, and buffs, many buffs as well as titania

Stealth: Just like assassins, they are roles, but they have a lot of group control, distraction skills, invisibility and so on ...

Phew ... Well this not only helps in the creation of new warframes ... but also helps when equipping your mods!

 Flexibility is better. Stuff the casual, narrow, Evolve sorting back into the stuffy and boring filing cabinet. That may seem important for the casual games that only let you play if you form a team and give you only a singular weapon or tool, but not here in Warframe, where you can go either way.

Making Ash stand in place at any point? Some people are not getting  the reason for complaints in the first place. It's not about simply not wanting to see a cutscene, it's about Ash having control taken away for this ability.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(XBOX)Oussii]

The fact that we have 66 pages so far on this subject, it shows that Ash was really popular.

Some liked the re-work, some were against it.. and some in the middle between the two.

I think DE should step in and do something, fix the rework, cancel it, adjust it, whatever, but just step in and do something.

staying neutral to this issue will not do any good  to you DE

[Nazrethim]

11 hours ago, Implodingbanana said:

I think they considered it, but it felt to much like Ember's world on fire.

And pretty much every Ash player worth the blades recognized it was the dvmbest idea ever.

I think Blade Storm is in a good position now, not too cheese and not too weak. DE needs to rework or scrap Teleport or make Fatal Teleport autofinisher and refund on kill baseline to the ability, also increase baseline range, and make update the augment with some other effect. Rising Storm is woefully behind the times, 3s duration isn't good now that we have BC and DC. Shuriken just needs a simple tweak: scale off the melee combo counter or secondary mods, I would prefer the first as Ash is a melee frame.

 

[NinjaZeku]

49 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I think Blade Storm is in a good position now, not too cheese and not too weak.

That is entirely beside the point of the topic, manual sweep-sweep-sweep BS is annoying / not Ninja at all
and having to sit through the non-interactive animation afterwards is no less boring than old P4TW.

[UrielColtan]

On 12/2/2016 at 8:50 AM, UrielColtan said:

An example of how ninja teleporting should be improved. Smooth, seemless and usable without a target. Targetted enemies/team-mates/and other specific items can just be reserved for teleporting greater distances than the base, and stealth kills of course.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a concept on executing an exalted state for Ash, to replace the non interactive slideshow his fourth currently is, while still looking cinematic and stylish. Just add Ash's two clones to a concept like this for a more literal blade-storm. 

Obviously it does not have to look exactly like this, but the potential of a similar concept would be great.

 

 

 

Adding to this, extend Smokescreen duration, and give it confusion status to nearbye enemies it staggers, causing them to shoot at each other.

Afflicted enemies will have a smoke cloud around their head to signify this. Also, get rid of the damage multiplier reset that Smokescreen gets whenever your body physically touches an enemy. No reason this soft nerf should exist while DE keeps the drunken and teflon like connection of the redundantly activated combos in their melee system. Spruce the melee hit connections up and make combo implementation a bit more dynamic in activation(Allowing the likes of the reload key to be used, since it currently does nothing while you are in stance mode), while we are at it.

Edited December 7, 2016 by UrielColtan

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

That is entirely beside the point of the topic, manual sweep-sweep-sweep BS is annoying / not Ninja at all
and having to sit through the non-interactive animation afterwards is no less boring than old P4TW.

But it's very rare to require all 3 marks on a target to kill it below lvl 100. And even then just the most hardarse enemies endure a single combo powered bladestorm stab.

[NinjaZeku]

5 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

But it's very rare to require all 3 marks on a target to kill it below lvl 100. And even then just the most hardarse enemies endure a single combo powered bladestorm stab.

Dood ... come on, nobody is saying Blade Storm is weak, this is about everything else that's wrong with it.

[Buzkyl]

Bladestorm is one of the longest skills in the game, while i personally don't mind the cut-scenes there are moments the length of Bladestorm makes it more of a hindrance than an asset. Let's go through 2 scenarios

You target a group of enemies then you activate bladestorm

• An ally goes down
• Objective becomes endagered

There is absulutely nothing you can do because you're still in bladestorm. So here's proposed fix to that

Suggestion:While in bladestorm, if Ash press 4 again he will return to his original location. Ash's clones will continue to attack Marked targets until all the marks are used.

This should allow Ash to continue his rampage on enemies, however he can also stop to assist teammates and objectives when the moment needs. It's also a compromise to those who don't like the bladestorm animation. Target enemies with bladestorm then cancel it and allow his clones to finish up the work.

[Nazrethim]

Remove the "clones continue to attack marked targets" and I'm sold. Cancelable Bladestorm is a good idea, world on bladestorm isn't.

[Buzkyl]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Remove the "clones continue to attack marked targets" and I'm sold. Cancelable Bladestorm is a good idea, world on bladestorm isn't.

Ash is still paying the same amount of energy and still has to manually aim at targets. This only spares him from watching himself kill 15 enemies 1 by 1. Obviously while the clones attack the target he can't use bladestorm again as 1 instance is already active.

[Licitaqua]

why you are complaining about one of the most op and effective kill abilities in the game i have no idea. de has previewed a rework to ash enough times to think that any ability that is similar to the current one would be either as op or more op. stop complaining about a skill that makes you invulnerable to damage that they intend to rework and rather enjoy the ability while it lasts.

[leadwolf1]

I find it very funny that the whole bladestorm thing is from players that just did not want the ability, when ash went into public players got out as soon as they could because of spam 4 not because it was effective but because it took all the kills. now players are targeting ember with her 4 and frost with his 4 avalanche. look all of them kill everything in lower missions. these are instant kills. in higher missions not so much , and that is what ashes did. now it is crap , everyone wants it to stay now, but, I see no one using him anymore. So everyone of the no I do not want and he is good now should be playing him on a regular basis. Funny No one is . I can say this for I am semi retired and play about 11 hours a day and yet with all the public runs I have yet to see ash as, I believe besides myself trying to learn the new way I have seen 1 other 1 time. a shame that it has now become a thing of not wanting it because of players crying about it. face it. It had nothing to do with not being able to control it . For if it did ash would be  being used as much as it was before, and it is not. SO de the next time players complain take a better look at the data before listening to the same players on how to fix it and then fix it according to those who actually play that particular warframe.

thanks

reply if you want to but be honest you know I am right.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

33 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

why you are complaining about one of the most op and effective kill abilities in the game i have no idea. de has previewed a rework to ash enough times to think that any ability that is similar to the current one would be either as op or more op. stop complaining about a skill that makes you invulnerable to damage that they intend to rework and rather enjoy the ability while it lasts.

Not really that effective or OP because of this rework. Also the fact that current bladestorm still requires minimum effort to use, plus being overshadowed by decently modded weapons, kinda makes bladestorm pointless.

[Licitaqua]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Not really that effective or OP because of this rework. Also the fact that current bladestorm still requires minimum effort to use, plus being overshadowed by decently modded weapons, kinda makes bladestorm pointless.

yes and yet no matter where you go someone complains that its too op and asks for a nerf

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

Ash is still paying the same amount of energy and still has to manually aim at targets. This only spares him from watching himself kill 15 enemies 1 by 1. Obviously while the clones attack the target he can't use bladestorm again as 1 instance is already active.

Simple, keep the marks after canceling or remove them (so you have to target again) and refun the energy. No need for world on blade storm.

[LSG501]

4 hours ago, leadwolf1 said:

I find it very funny that the whole bladestorm thing is from players that just did not want the ability, when ash went into public players got out as soon as they could because of spam 4 not because it was effective but because it took all the kills. now players are targeting ember with her 4 and frost with his 4 avalanche. look all of them kill everything in lower missions. these are instant kills. in higher missions not so much , and that is what ashes did. now it is crap , everyone wants it to stay now, but, I see no one using him anymore. So everyone of the no I do not want and he is good now should be playing him on a regular basis. Funny No one is . I can say this for I am semi retired and play about 11 hours a day and yet with all the public runs I have yet to see ash as, I believe besides myself trying to learn the new way I have seen 1 other 1 time. a shame that it has now become a thing of not wanting it because of players crying about it. face it. It had nothing to do with not being able to control it . For if it did ash would be  being used as much as it was before, and it is not. SO de the next time players complain take a better look at the data before listening to the same players on how to fix it and then fix it according to those who actually play that particular warframe.

thanks

reply if you want to but be honest you know I am right.

I don't play ash now (wasn't a big player before hand) because it costs too much energy to use bladestorm if doing solo and it takes too long to mark stuff in multi so they get killed before 4 gets triggered again or it's just quicker to use our guns or melee.  If I want invisibility, which seems to be the main boosted ability on the rework, I can just use loki... 

Then there's the fact they kind of ignored what people wanted changing.... they wanted the animation to be stoppable and the marked enemies to be attackable but we get this 'half' fix in that they just restrict the number of hits we can do and make it so others can kill the marked enemies before we even get to attack them.... 

I made a suggestion in the megathread on how to fix bladestorm in my opinion, it was make it single cost like the old system, only attacks whats visible in line of sight (so on screen) up to a max of 18 high priority targets.  Each target, which can still be attacked by others (not sure on this bit though), is attacked a max of 3 times (may need buff or link with melee to boost strength) and can be stopped during attack sequence with a percentage being returned.  It's more focused in attack area and doesn't have psychic abilities, it doesn't get stuck killing ancients for ages due to 3 attacks max and it allows players to stop the animation sequence... and best of all it has a reasonable energy requirement. 

 

The thing is as well is that if the dev's keep taking away all these abilities due to people complaining the game is basically going to end up becoming call of duty in space... part of the reason we play the game is because of the abilities that the warframes have and taking them away or nerfing them to the point where they're useless will ultimately cause players to look elsewhere.

[UrielColtan]

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/653910748817719296

 

From last year, even DE hated the cutscenes junk. No reason to actually keep it, when it just kills the pace.

Edited December 8, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

24 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/653910748817719296

 

From last year, even DE hated the cutscenes junk. No reason to actually keep it, when it just kills the pace.

Yet they keep it... clearly they just said "F*** it, to much work" and gave us this crappy rework.

[Achromatic.]

Devstream thread is up, you can ask (and hope) for them to give their thoughts on the rework if you want.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Biter.

[dodyouserious]

6 hours ago, leadwolf1 said:

I find it very funny that the whole bladestorm thing is from players that just did not want the ability, when ash went into public players got out as soon as they could because of spam 4 not because it was effective but because it took all the kills. now players are targeting ember with her 4 and frost with his 4 avalanche. look all of them kill everything in lower missions. these are instant kills. in higher missions not so much , and that is what ashes did. now it is crap , everyone wants it to stay now, but, I see no one using him anymore. So everyone of the no I do not want and he is good now should be playing him on a regular basis. Funny No one is . I can say this for I am semi retired and play about 11 hours a day and yet with all the public runs I have yet to see ash as, I believe besides myself trying to learn the new way I have seen 1 other 1 time. a shame that it has now become a thing of not wanting it because of players crying about it. face it. It had nothing to do with not being able to control it . For if it did ash would be  being used as much as it was before, and it is not. SO de the next time players complain take a better look at the data before listening to the same players on how to fix it and then fix it according to those who actually play that particular warframe.

thanks

reply if you want to but be honest you know I am right.

you are right

[minidelight]

7 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/653910748817719296

 

From last year, even DE hated the cutscenes junk. No reason to actually keep it, when it just kills the pace.

lol nice catch, DE had to show some work  done to release the deluxe skin, so they ignored 1 year+ feedback and what we got was a rush job

Edited December 8, 2016 by minidelight