Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

32 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

yes it does

No it doesn't, what ash are u playing with? Activating his BS does not proc trickery during it.

Edit: You need a massive combo counter to proc anything in BS. Unless you just like to solo low level for fun lol never tried run away ash on low level missions 😂 he might be viable there.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

7 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

This is the kind of dialogue we need though, not any of this "Ash is totally useless now" exaggeration. 

There is plenty of rework dialogue, read the first 80 pages. lol

[Hypernaut1]

34 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

No it doesn't, what ash are u playing with? Activating his BS does not proc trickery during it.

I play Ash daily and use arcane trickery all the time. Unless it's different in Xbox, arcane trickery definitely works. 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[Nazrethim]

25 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

There is plenty of rework dialogue, read the first 80 pages. lol

I discard "ash is nerfed" comments, which make most of the megathread sadly. Blade Storm "may" be nerfed, but Ash is stronger and more enjoyable now. He just needs a few QoL tweaks, particularly to SS&BS interaction, Rising Storm and maybe making Shuriken work off the combo counter, so if you rack a good counter even shuriken gets a buff.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I play Ash daily and use arcane trickery all the time. Unless it's different in Xbox, arcane trickery definitely works. Honestly, based on a lot of what you say...I sometimes doubt you play much at all and just make up stuff. 

 

 

Whatever u say chief 👍 keep pretending u do what u say u do with ash.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

15 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I discard "ash is nerfed" comments, which make most of the megathread sadly. Blade Storm "may" be nerfed, but Ash is stronger and more enjoyable now. He just needs a few QoL tweaks, particularly to SS&BS interaction, Rising Storm and maybe making Shuriken work off the combo counter, so if you rack a good counter even shuriken gets a buff.

I agree with shuriken buffing the combo counter, makes sense. Would make BS more viable and easier to manipulate. Essentially you'd be marking your targets with shuriken. And would be a setup for BS alot like Saryn with her 1,4 combo.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Roadle32111]

I feel as though ash barely fits into either category. DPS or stealth. Could we please get either more damage out of the new bladestorm of some form of stealth bonus other than lower energy cost? Right now, teleport is the only viable endgame ability. 

[OHKOBunny]

Ash is pretty okay the way he is, as far as quality of life changes go...

Make his 4 a bit stronger

Remove the cutscene effect from his 4

Make Shuriken scale with Secondary mods

I don't play ash, like, at all. I never liked him, these suggestions are from the standpoint of someone who casually plays ash for fun once in a blue moon and has to deal with friends and companions constantly rage over the rework. He'll never be as strong as he was because the strength he had before should never have happened, the best anyone can hope for a slightly stronger, more versatile ash.

[Nazrethim]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

I agree with shuriken buffing the combo counter, makes sense. Would make BS more viable and easier to manipulate. Essentially you'd be marking your targets with shuriken. And would be a setup for BS alot like Saryn with her 1,4 combo.

I meant Shuriken damage being affected by the combo counter, not so much as marking as dealing actual damage. Another posibility would be to only apply the Bleed to alerted targets, and unalerted targets take instant Finisher damage equal to the Bleed damage.

BS is fine, Rising Storm is the weak link.

5 hours ago, OHKOBunny said:

Make Shuriken scale with Secondary mods

I would prefer the combo counter since he is a melee oriented frame, but secondary mods also make sense.

[Buzkyl]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Yeah trickery will not proc anymore during his BS lol, Leaving Ash vary vulnerable. That "godly melee" build wont help you there. My new nickname for ash is "runaway ash" lol Thats all i see when i do see a ash player..😂

Arcane trickery works fine with Ash, there was no change to it. If it was present it would be fix. My trickery set procs invisibility fine.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

Arcane trickery works fine with Ash, there was no change to it. If it was present it would be fix. My trickery set procs invisibility fine.

To be more specific, Higher tier enemies 80+ if the initial BS does not kill them it wont proc, to kill top tier enemies that requires a massive combo counter which also requires combo duration mods to be effective. Ash is not a melee frame(as ash should not be required to use life strike to make him a melee frame). Ash is a ninja, not a samurai. In my opinion thats what is broken with BS. 

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

unalerted targets take instant Finisher damage

equal to his 3, especially using dagger covert lethality combo

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

It makes me mad Everytime I see a comment saying, "bladestorm nerf is not a nerf, because now you can prioritize enemies" like why do people pretend that ash doesn't already have a priority ability(teleport), sorry for the rant but I see to many people who never played ash before telling me how to use bladestorm.

[Somethinglurks]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

It makes me mad Everytime I see a comment saying, "bladestorm nerf is not a nerf, because now you can prioritize enemies" like why do people pretend that ash doesn't already have a priority ability(teleport), sorry for the rant but I see to many people who never played ash before telling me how to use bladestorm.

Plus the increase in energy consumption makes it a double slap in the face!  Ash isn't allowed to kill multiple enemies at once efficiently, I guess.

[(PSN)Faustx19]

So many comments for ideas that would change ash completely , that makes no sense.There are many others if someone has a problem with ash.Ideas with shuriken marks for other skills sounds more terrible as the aoe ability ideas for ult, many other frames already have that. To switch into mark mode works great.No energy cost,shoot a bit,if it gets hard just press again,for my experience there are already many targets marked. For low to mid lv i see no use in bladestorm,if i aim for the enemys i can also shoot em , its faster as aim and execute bladestorm . However.If there are to many enemys and the gun can not shoot em down fast on higher difficulty and bs mark mode is active it is also ready to execute on many targets and great.Just activate it soon enough,it do not hurt or cost anything . 

[Hypernaut1]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

So many comments for ideas that would change ash completely , that makes no sense.There are many others if someone has a problem with ash.Ideas with shuriken marks for other skills sounds more terrible as the aoe ability ideas for ult, many other frames already have that. To switch into mark mode works great.No energy cost,shoot a bit,if it gets hard just press again,for my experience there are already many targets marked. For low to mid lv i see no use in bladestorm,if i aim for the enemys i can also shoot em , its faster as aim and execute bladestorm . However.If there are to many enemys and the gun can not shoot em down fast on higher difficulty and bs mark mode is active it is also ready to execute on many targets and great.Just activate it soon enough,it do not hurt or cost anything . 

I don't get when people complain about teammates killing enemies faster than they can bladestorm. If the enemy's are that easy, then I see no problem with Ash not needing to BS all the time. In fact, the was the problem with the old BS, it wasn't helping, it was just deleting enemies that people weren't having trouble with anyway. 

The way you play if similar to how I play. I activate BS, use my primary and activate BS to clean up. When it starts getting tough, then BS definitely comes in handy and actually does kill multiple enemies faster than most primaries. 

I definitely won't say it WASN'T a nerf, but Ash is definitely not useless now.

[DatDarkOne]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ash is a ninja, not a samurai.

It is possible to be both.  History has a few examples but one stands out the most.  Hattori Hanzo

Just adding little bits of data for fun.  No harm intended fellow Tenno.  :D

I still consider Ivara to be more "ninja" than all of them.  LOL

[Nazrethim]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Ash is not a melee frame(as ash should not be required to use life strike to make him a melee frame). Ash is a ninja, not a samurai

Ash IS a melee frame. 3 of his abilities are melee oriented, he has good ehp (unlike the other frames with invisibility which are squishy modded for ehp or not) which is typical of melee units and 3 of his abilities boost melee potential. Ash is a hollywood ninja, read: He can be stealthy or be combat ready rambo with a katana. Hattori Hanzo was both a daimyo and a shinobi, and shinobi training was pretty much "Samurai Training+Ninja stuff (stealth, deception, poisoning, etc)". Ash Prime pays homage to this by being a visual mix of both.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Edited December 20, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash IS a melee frame.

How? he only has 65 points more armor than Loki Prime, thats not a melee frame in my opinion. Rhino, Valkyr, Excal, Atlas even Wukong are your melee frames 225 plus armor. Ash doesnt not fit that tier. There is nothing Samurai (Bushido) about Ash in my opinion. Samurai were noble, royalty, honorable. Ninja were viewed as cowardly, attacking from the shadows, assassins. Two completely different codes. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

3 of his abilities are melee oriented

in short, well no

His 1,3,4

1. is a shuriken (not bushido)

3. is a ninja kill move (not bushido)

4. pretends to be his 3 but for multiple enemies.(not bushido)

He is a ninja, not samurai.

Edited December 20, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DatDarkOne]

26 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

There is nothing Samurai (Bushido) about Ash in my opinion. Samurai were noble, royalty, honorable. Ninja were viewed as cowardly, attacking from the shadows, assassins. Two completely different codes. 

I would advise doing a little more research.  Bushido is similar to a code of honor like chivalry.  That doesn't mean all Samurai followed it.  It also doesn't exclude one with shinobi training from following it.  Check out the true history of Hattori Hanzo.  You will see that he qualifies as both samurai and ninja even by your definitions.  Ash's Deluxe skin does pay tribute to both groups. 

edit: this isn't meant as an argument.  Just more a offering of more insight and suggestions.  Also, sorry for the slightly off topic posts.

Edited December 20, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added info

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

36 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I would advise doing a little more research.  Bushido is similar to a code of honor like chivalry.  That doesn't mean all Samurai followed it.  It also doesn't exclude one with shinobi training from following it.  Check out the true history of Hattori Hanzo.  You will see that he qualifies as both samurai and ninja even by your definitions.  Ash's Deluxe skin does pay tribute to both groups. 

edit: this isn't meant as an argument.  Just more a offering of more insight and suggestions.  Also, sorry for the slightly off topic posts.

Granted, we are off topic. 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

How? he only has 65 points more armor than Loki Prime, thats not a melee frame in my opinion. Rhino, Valkyr, Excal, Atlas even Wukong are your melee frames 225 plus armor. Ash doesnt not fit that tier. There is nothing Samurai (Bushido) about Ash in my opinion. Samurai were noble, royalty, honorable. Ninja were viewed as cowardly, attacking from the shadows, assassins. Two completely different codes. 

He has one of the highest HP pools. Ash Prime has decent armor.

Do some research about history. Samurai were nobles in the sense they wanted to conquer the whole country or were just soldiers, and the great daimyos were pretty much scheming backstabbers ready to betray one another at a moments notice, and were blade-happy killers. Ninja were completely loyal, they never betrayed their masters, they used stealth and "dirty tactics" but that's born out of pragmatism, they were ready to enter combat or face impossible odds or sacrifice themselves. Ninja were The most trustworthy people around the Sengoku Jidai. And again, many Shinobi were also Samurai. Most of the Samurai as honorable warriors comes from legends or novels made by retired samurais after they were no longer needed and society moved on, sure there were honorable samurai, but saying all of them were is like saying all ninjas had actual invisibility and assassinated their targets (Ninjas only killed when there wasn't any other option, they were mostly spies and saboteurs)

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

in short, well no

His 1,3,4

1. is a shuriken (not bushido)

3. is a ninja kill move (not bushido)

4. pretends to be his 3 but for multiple enemies.(not bushido)

He is a ninja, not samurai.

1- Yeah, shuriken were mostly used for distraction or to wound/cripple a chasing opponent, in Warframe is used to wound and kill.

2- Boosts melee damage and stagger enemies in a short radius, meaning it's a close quarters disengage.

3- It brings you close to the enemy and creates an opening for a powerful melee takedown.

4- Ash uses his wristblades (melee weapons) to stab enemies, mixed in the action are some sweeping kicks and roundhouses. It contributes and benefits from, the Combo counter, it's also affected by Steel Charge Aura, and aura meant for melee weapons.

 

Bushido was a code of conduct, like the code of chivalry, and had as much weight on Samurai in general as the pirate code in Pirates of the Caribean, meaning they followed them when it was convenient or when someone "insulted" their honor, which could range from an actual insult to something irrelevant taken too seriously. Shinobi had a similar code and were in fact completely loyal to their masters.

Shinobi training emcompassed most of the samurai training (mostly the part that was useful for war)+ their own special training with tools and techniques.

 

Final note: In the Warframe universe, tenno are in general both ninja and samurai at the same time, combined with some thematic magic.

[Riley207]

As being a dedicated Ash Player returning to this game to experience the new ash bladestorm, I'm confused as why I must give more effort to find my targets to rerun the very same animation.

Granted the ash blade storm was in my opinion an exploit to not be damaged by perma blade storm when you are being pumped with energy through the vacuum pet.

I appreciate the attempt at making it more action focused, but at the same time you have created more work to achieve the same result.

It's a cool idea to fragment your targets you want to attack for limiting the idle time during the blade storm, but you should also provide a generic aoe targeting function which provides less damage at a shorter range, a panic button if you will to allow less micromanaging at a penalty.

Personally, if you want this power to not take over the camera for so long, you should make the bladestorm a charge up power, with more charge increasing the radius, and upon releasing you stab all the targets inside the radius within 2 seconds of amazing visuals. The larger the radius, the greater the consumption of power.

 

At this current state. I'm turned off from this move as it makes using ashes bladestorm a chore to figure out who I have targeted and how many times. This is an undesirable effect towards a fix against a perma blade storm control.