Ash Rework [Tactics & Strategy]

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, Souldend78 said:

As much as any other press 4 to nuke frame does. Besides Trinity, all other frames are pretty much irrelevant, I mean, who needs a shield/globe/buff, when you can constantly regen health/shields/energy, keeping all enemies dead or cced.

Hehe, you left out a few frames.  Trinity isn't the only frame that doesn't need any help with surviving, CCing, and killing.  Ivara doesn't need any help either.  I could even throw Titania in there as well.  Those frames are almost completely self reliant while also being able to contribute to team play.

What I meant with Ash is that before the rework, his BladeStorm could be just as helpful as it could be an annoyance for a team (Radiation hazard anyone).   I'm perfectly fine with Ash and some other frames being solo friendly or not team related.  I had always envisioned Ash as a loner anyway.  Assassins usually are.  He fits that role much better now after the rework IMO.  :D

[Soulden]

2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Hehe, you left out a few frames.  Trinity isn't the only frame that doesn't need any help with surviving, CCing, and killing.  Ivara doesn't need any help either.  I could even throw Titania in there as well.  Those frames are almost completely self reliant while also being able to contribute to team play.

What I meant with Ash is that before the rework, his BladeStorm could be just as helpful as it could be an annoyance for a team (Radiation hazard anyone).   I'm perfectly fine with Ash and some other frames being solo friendly or not team related.  I had always envisioned Ash as a loner anyway.  Assassins usually are.  He fits that role much better now after the rework IMO.  :D

As long as he can clear a room before a Blessing is needed, thats teamwork on my book.

XD

[Merrowen]

Nice strategy suggestions, thank you.

There's just one problem with bladestorm now. Drop a smoke. Mark, say, 30 or so targets...end of storm, no energy left. Not a problem on regular missions, but on late stage survivals or defenses, being left without ability to drop smoke can be...unhealthy. That's my problem with new bladestorm. Extreme energy cost. Using bladestorm to kill 10-15 baddies isn't really needed, sliding through it with telos boltace, for instance, will do the job much faster and energy free. Bladestorm was useful for larger crowds. Now, even with primed flow, using bladestorm requires some extreme way of getting your energy back. I can understand that de wanted to address the concerns of people playing low level missions, where bladestorm might have made it boring for them (can't wait for the cries of anguish when ember gets rework of the world on fire, it's way worse than bladestorm ever was), but the way they approached it made it into last resort, preferably don't use it at all skill.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Merrowen

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

On 11/26/2016 at 6:26 PM, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

obviously you dont play mag ... 

nuke  maps without much energy or effort

 

 

Mag used to have infinite scaling against anything with a shield. Now she is just kind of there.

[Akavakaku]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Mag used to have infinite scaling against anything with a shield. Now she is just kind of there.

Her new second and third abilities can combine to do immense damage to single targets and groups, block enemy gunfire, halt enemy movement, and reduce enemy armor and shields while replenishing yours. 

[Hypernaut1]

On 11/26/2016 at 0:44 AM, Vindicative said:

Does Blade Storm still activate Arcane Trickery?

yes it does. Its even more essential to a serious ash player now since you cant just BS youre way out of an ambush now

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

7 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

Her new second and third abilities can combine to do immense damage to single targets and groups, block enemy gunfire, halt enemy movement, and reduce enemy armor and shields while replenishing yours. 

Or I can slow every enemy to a crawl, double damage, and suck up bullets with Nova. Reduce all enemy armor to zero with 4xCP, and do obscene amounts of damage with my Tigris Prime.

Mag's damage no longer scales infinitely, G-Pull is nerfed into uselessness, Pull and her skill that sucks up bullets only ruins other players shots. Etc.

She's in the same boat or worse than Ash.

[Maki0r]

On 26/11/2016 at 1:44 AM, Vindicative said:

Does Blade Storm still activate Arcane Trickery?

yes

[thekurama13]

played with a team. before i could press 4 again my teammates would kill the enemy i had marked so......... teleport ftw

[Ailissa]

7 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

This is quite true. Then again Ash never really has been known as much of a team player. Just think about it for a bit. What did Ash really contribute to a team? :D

You make a fair point.

 

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

16 hours ago, Akavakaku said:

Her new second and third abilities can combine to do immense damage to single targets and groups, block enemy gunfire, halt enemy movement, and reduce enemy armor and shields while replenishing yours. 

IKR? i keep running into people who dont seem to get this ...

[Evanescent]

I was always a smoke-screen and Teleport player, so I like this a lot. Blade storm feels kinda more fun now, in a way? You mark enemies and then execute them, making you feel more in control...I would prefer Ash not be involved in the execution stage, leaving it to the clones. As it is right now locking him up in animations seems to not solve the problem of taking player control out of their hands.

Also finally, Ash can not auto kill teammates in rad sorties. 

[Evanescent]

17 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Mag used to have infinite scaling against anything with a shield. Now she is just kind of there.

She also used to be kind of useless against all but the corpus, yeah? I don't comment on the rework since I don't play Mag, but from friends who do play her, she seems better now than she was before against other factions. Not quite there yet, but better.

[ashrah]

On 11/26/2016 at 6:44 AM, Vindicative said:

Does Blade Storm still activate Arcane Trickery?

yes its dose...

[(PSN)AL_Ximik]

i thought ash would like http://joxi.ru/8239XjDhJnpN7r . With ult like a excal or ivara.. with handdaggers (exalted daggers?) or something like that. Activating 4 ability still activate shadow mode, but give 4 ability synergy with 3, 1 jump 1 animation of ult on 1 mob. Each melee hit in the ult (shadow mode) we get 1 charge for the jump+hit (3 - button) and start old ult animation on 1 mob.Sorry for my English, I hope I was able to convey the idea.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)AL_Nosferatu

[(PSN)lhbuch]

My end game build for Ash already had duration because at really high levels, if my double Trickery didnt activate, a low duration SC would mean death. The energy consumption portion is how ¨reworks¨ for ults happen: Mesa PM, Valkyr Hyst, Ash bladestorm...

[DxAdder]

23 hours ago, Ailissa said:

Ash is still okay .,..... for solo play.

 

If you are in a group those mobs would be dead before you've finished marking.

^^^ This is Big Issue ^^^

And the fact unless you Mod for long Duration Smokescreen your pretty much a Pinata while your marking.

It's just way too much work... there are just too many other frames that are more efficient killers.

The Frame is now Mastery Fodder, Ash has no place in a Meta 4 man anymore.

 

 

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

Just now, DxAdder said:

^^^ This is Big Issue ^^^

And the fact unless you Mod for long Duration Smokescreen your pretty much a Pinata while your marking.

It's just way too much work... there are just too many other frames that are more efficient killers.

The Frame is now Mastery Fodder, Ash has no place in a Meta 4 man anymore.

 

 

 

think that was the point of the rework to get him to be less meta 4 

quick casting 4/decast can be a effective offensive plan , like how mesa can still nuke maps, just spin in a circle with 4 up ?

 

[DxAdder]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

think that was the point of the rework to get him to be less meta 4 

quick casting 4/decast can be a effective offensive plan , like how mesa can still nuke maps, just spin in a circle with 4 up ?

 

But Mesa works differently, If a target come up in your sights it dies instantly and Mesa is constantly burning energy in Peacemaker Mode.

The re-work is just too slow and cumbersome.

 

 

 

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

12 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

But Mesa works differently, If a target come up in your sights it dies instantly and Mesa is constantly burning energy in Peacemaker Mode.

The re-work is just too slow and cumbersome.

 

 

 

i believe it was to push players to play more stealthily, less spam attack

simple tap on /off of 4 can kill fast , but again its not as effective as say a equinox maim in overall damage output, or something like  mesa peacemaker, she is stationary [unless on console..]

ash is more to kill on demand or when needed , pulling him a bit away from dmg type to be promote more damage/stealth capability  

 

[Noobverest]

1 minute ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

i believe it was to push players to play more stealthily, less spam attack

simple tap on /off of 4 can kill fast , but again its not as effective as say a equinox maim in overall damage output, or something like  mesa peacemaker, she is stationary [unless on console..]

ash is more to kill on demand or when needed , pulling him a bit away from dmg type to be promote more damage/stealth capability  

 

Ash's bladestorm doesn't actually really work stealthily.

When you stab the enemy it alerts them and that gets rid of the Stealth multiplier :(

Better off using Fatal Teleport. Getting tons of exp for stealth is amazing

[RunningTree3]

Thanks to OP for a refreshing topic. While critical feedback and even venting is useful, I think there is plenty enough threads for "can't use Ash any more" posts.

 

I have found that using Bladestorm in smaller bursts have been most useful and enjoyable.

The fun part has been marking and casting in the middle of a reload. After a short Bladestorm burst, the gun has a fresh clip ready to go again.

That question about "why don't I just shoot them instead?". Well why not both. There is no need to withhold gunfire while marking -- whittle down health, throw in some Viral status, use fewer marks, finish the job.

Smokescreen and Teleport are on the improve, but personally have always trusted evasion over invisibility -- especially if running around with noisy weapons; enemies will still know where to fire.

[Noobverest]

5 minutes ago, RunningTree3 said:

Thanks to OP for a refreshing topic. While critical feedback and even venting is useful, I think there is plenty enough threads for "can't use Ash any more" posts.

 

I have found that using Bladestorm in smaller bursts have been most useful and enjoyable.

The fun part has been marking and casting in the middle of a reload. After a short Bladestorm burst, the gun has a fresh clip ready to go again.

That question about "why don't I just shoot them instead?". Well why not both. There is no need to withhold gunfire while marking -- whittle down health, throw in some Viral status, use fewer marks, finish the job.

Smokescreen and Teleport are on the improve, but personally have always trusted evasion over invisibility -- especially if running around with noisy weapons; enemies will still know where to fire.

I usually just throw shurikens and invis while I'm reloading

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

8 minutes ago, RunningTree3 said:

Thanks to OP for a refreshing topic. While critical feedback and even venting is useful, I think there is plenty enough threads for "can't use Ash any more" posts.

 

I have found that using Bladestorm in smaller bursts have been most useful and enjoyable.

The fun part has been marking and casting in the middle of a reload. After a short Bladestorm burst, the gun has a fresh clip ready to go again.

That question about "why don't I just shoot them instead?". Well why not both. There is no need to withhold gunfire while marking -- whittle down health, throw in some Viral status, use fewer marks, finish the job.

Smokescreen and Teleport are on the improve, but personally have always trusted evasion over invisibility -- especially if running around with noisy weapons; enemies will still know where to fire.

^ this 

the burst idea is what i found to be the most fun, and its easy to quick spam cast it 

 the viral shooting concept is a nice touch, why not be actively killing and casting in union to deliver the most in terms of damage, as you saw, shoot , hit reload, cast 4, pop out shoot as its reloaded during BS 

i still feel  smoke , teleport need more addressed to make more use of the stealth factors but this is a nice direction

19 minutes ago, Noobverest said:

Ash's bladestorm doesn't actually really work stealthily.

When you stab the enemy it alerts them and that gets rid of the Stealth multiplier :(

Better off using Fatal Teleport. Getting tons of exp for stealth is amazing

 more often in groups i was spam casting , but for stealth activity FT all the way