DE, No More Frame Reworks Please. Just Stop

[(XBOX)RVN World News]

Agreed :/

[(XBOX)Oussii]

I have to admit that this rework falls on us.

It's our mistake

there were a lot of topics asking to rework Ash BS, and we failed to stop it.

Once they announced the rework, they couldn't just back out, and i believe even if we keep on protesting till kingdom done, DE will never go back to the previous version of ASH.

What is done is done, and sadly we have to live with it.

I just hope that those horns who wanted Ash to be nerfed are happy now.

[Naqel]

On 11/26/2016 at 9:18 AM, Xylyssa said:

Either change how you think about certain frames or stop reworking them.

There should be a change not just in how certain frames are looked at, but how all of them are looked at and what kind of impact their abilities should have.

One of the many problems that contributed towards Warframe becoming increasingly less fun to play was the overt focus on ultimate abilities being "ultimate".

Ideally ultimate abilities shouldn't even exist, being instead replaced by signature ones, meaning no ability is explicitly stronger than any other, especially when correcting for their energy cost), and there should have been(or at least there was supposed to be at some point) a pool of abilities that all warframes can use.

[Ryouhi]

I don't understand why people keep complaining about the reworks.

I love Saryn's Rework.
Yeah, they nerfed her 4, but all her other skills became much more useful.

Same with Mag, though her Pull is still a bit underwhelming.

 

Ash does seem to miss the point of his rework however, since nothing really changed other than making his ult more clunky, good thing i dont play him anyway lul

[hukurokuju5]

how much kuva to cycle the design team?

[Circle_of_Psi]

22 hours ago, Madway7 said:

At the very least leaving out possible issues with his Bladestorm changes would you at least agree that his Smoke Screen augment needs a range buff?

Yes

[NoLazyShadow]

23 hours ago, Keltik0ne said:

The problem with bladestorm was it locked the player in an animation sequence, created invulnerability frames that impede team mates and was considered very cheesy in the whole 1 button nukes a room regard.

The changes only looked at the last part, and even then all that was done was making it clunky and a bit reliant on smokescreen.

As far as reworks go, it was pointless.

Its ez: you mark enemy's and your clones will take care of them. But DE foget about clone part of rework..and armor set to Valkyr + her rework

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

If the Ash rework is a bad as Saryn and Nekros, I can't wait.

[Demon.King]

Personally I disagree.

Most of the reworks were 'good' (Excalibur, Frost, Ember, Rhino, Vauban, Volt),

some mediocre (Valkyr due to later nerfs on reworked 4 and refusing to get rid of invulnerability, Nekros due to SotD issues not being fixed, Mesa because 4 still lacks the ability to zoom while aiming, Saryn fixed p42w but being turned into an ability spammer instead),

and only a few were bad (Mag due to nullifier buffs, Ash because his 4 is now nearly unusable outside of solo or spread groups and takes too long anyway)

 

Mag was indirectly rendered useless versus corpus due to nullifiers making all her abilities unusable, which is stupid since she's a Magnetic themed frame.

Ash 4 is too slow to use and in most content slower than just shooting things dead, which is what your team does, wasting your energy. I disliked ash before due to being stuck in animation frames, that still happens so rework is a failure.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Demon.King

[Culaio]

21 hours ago, bubbabenali said:

Instead of braving you killing skills you'd should thank that Saryn to take 50% of every enemies health in a map-wide radius.

Nova can with single button double damage of team to enemies(which pretty much means removing half of their health) WHILE slowing them down, so ?

and added to that nova has amazing antimatter drop which deals MASIVE damage

Edited November 27, 2016 by Culaio

[Skollolol]

5 hours ago, Naqel said:

There should be a change not just in how certain frames are looked at, but how all of them are looked at and what kind of impact their abilities should have.

One of the many problems that contributed towards Warframe becoming increasingly less fun to play was the overt focus on ultimate abilities being "ultimate".

Ideally ultimate abilities shouldn't even exist, being instead replaced by signature ones, meaning no ability is explicitly stronger than any other, especially when correcting for their energy cost), and there should have been(or at least there was supposed to be at some point) a pool of abilities that all warframes can use.

 

I fundamentally disagree.

What you are asking for is homogenisation, which a lot of games do/have done, and I think it was a great failure in all of them.

[Dragazer]

On 26/11/2016 at 6:50 AM, Hesyol said:

Muahaha, no, no. Ash rework is an AWESOME thing and I really hope Ember is next. We don't need braindead gamplay and one-trick frames.

Before: 100 energy for 18 targets, each target was attack until they died

Now: 180 energy for 18 targets, each target can only be attacked once per 10 energy.

Funny thing you mention one trick ponies because Ash is now a 1 trick frame with only fatal teleport actually useful for damage while also not eating a fckton of your energy.

On 26/11/2016 at 6:50 AM, Hesyol said:

Muahaha, no, no. Ash rework is an AWESOME thing

Edited November 27, 2016 by Dragazer

[tnccs215]

18 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Funny thing you mention one trick ponies because Ash is now a 1 trick frame with only fatal teleport actually useful for damage while also not eating a fckton of your energy.

Cause Smoke Screen doesn't exist, seeking shuriken is an illusion, and the fact that you can target multiple enemies with BladeStorm is, too, irrelevant.

[Dragazer]

6 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Cause Smoke Screen doesn't exist, seeking shuriken is an illusion, and the fact that you can target multiple enemies with BladeStorm is, too, irrelevant.

Naramon, or Trickery, armor is irrelevant when you insta kill with CL, BS not worth it due to less dmg, and using a fckton of energy when compared to fatal teleport and CL.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Dragazer

[tnccs215]

Just now, Dragazer said:

Naramon, or Trickery, armor is irrelevant when you insta kill with CL, BS not worth it due to less dmg, and using a fckton of energy.

wanting to use anything othr than naramon or trickery, armor being relevant to your allies, BS scaling with combo counter, and dealing sh!ttons of finisher damage.

[Dragazer]

8 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

wanting to use anything othr than naramon or trickery, armor being relevant to your allies, BS scaling with combo counter, and dealing sh!ttons of finisher damage.

ATM only relevant focus schools are Naramon and zenurik, not really much of choice especially for Ash, same with arcanes you dont have anything else worthwhile other than trickery and strike. The scaling isnt enough to compete with insta kills that scale infinitely while also without having to wait for any buildup to reach it.

CP x4 is a thing too

Edited November 27, 2016 by Dragazer

[venon23]

23 hours ago, bubbabenali said:

No Viral doesn't stack, another proc only prolongs its duration, but Saryn can give both viral and toxic map wide thats normal good enough in a good team.

if the first finish it stacks mate u reduce the hp permenent when the proc timer gos zero

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

there were a lot of topics asking to rework Ash BS, and we failed to stop it.

Speak for yourself. I tried. I don't even like Ash, but even I could see what this would do to him and so I tried.

It wouldn't have been so bad if the change at least appeared to work on paper then just failed when implemented, but you could clearly see that this was going to fail right from the onset. It was clearly flawed right from the design point. I made that clear on the forums, repeatedly, but like always, it fell on deaf ears.

And people wonder why the player base is becoming jaded and bitter.

10 hours ago, Ryouhi said:

I don't understand why people keep complaining about the reworks.

I love Saryn's Rework.
Yeah, they nerfed her 4, but all her other skills became much more useful.

Same with Mag, though her Pull is still a bit underwhelming.

 

Ash does seem to miss the point of his rework however, since nothing really changed other than making his ult more clunky, good thing i dont play him anyway lul

Because:

1. They are bad. (They are half thought out and don't address the core issues with the frames)
2. They make the frame worse. (see: Mag, Ash, etc)
3. They are unneeded. (Saryn was fine, Ash was fine, Mag was niche but at least had a purpose)
4. They change the focus of the frames. (e.g. Saryn was never melee focused before the rework).

etc.

Edited November 27, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

5 hours ago, Culaio said:

Nova can with single button double damage of team to enemies(which pretty much means removing half of their health) WHILE slowing them down, so ?

and added to that nova has amazing antimatter drop which deals MASIVE damage

I am already predicting that Nova is the next to meet the nerf, *ahem*, excuse me, the rework hammer.

[Skollolol]

39 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I am already predicting that Nova is the next to meet the nerf, *ahem*, excuse me, the rework hammer.

 

I would agree with a Nova rework, not because of any power nonsense, but because she's boring to play.

At least buff her movement speed or sth

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

20 minutes ago, Skollolol said:

but because she's boring to play.

Except she isn't. She is the only frame I regularly play anymore.

[dregomz]

On 26/11/2016 at 0:30 PM, Mingnit said:

Well...my Saryn still destroys rooms on sorties...don't know about that "bad rework" mine is working just fine.

 

 

Oh wait...I don't just press 4 anymore, I also use 1, 2, 3, and of course 4. Maybe that's why...I should go back and use 4 all the time and complain how it's crap and it's no where as easy to use as it used to be. 

Ash just needs synergy, nothing else his 4 is where it should be.

Her only usable skill now are 1 and 4. Second, Third are worthless.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

On 11/26/2016 at 6:40 AM, Noobverest said:

Instead of spamming 4, now you spam her 1.

Wow so different, holy crap it's a new world now.

I'm spamming 1 instead of 4.

VERY GOOD REWORK CONFIRMED, GOTTA SPAM ANOTHER BUTTON.

It's funny because it is true.

[Naqel]

6 hours ago, Skollolol said:

I fundamentally disagree.

What you are asking for is homogenisation, which a lot of games do/have done, and I think it was a great failure in all of them.

Consistency =/= homeganisation.

I can also assure you that the game would be infinitely better if things like accessing Rip-Line were a matter of flavor, and not tied permanently to Valkyr.

The whole problem people have with most of the current changes stems from the fact that DE wants to move away from "push button to not play the grind" ultimates, but it's really hard to do that while pleasing the crowd that they appealed to in the first place.

There is literally nothing having ultimates in the game brings to the table in terms of variety, that couldn't be achieved with smart use of weaker abilities. Hell for some frames(like Loki), the ultimate was so irrelevant to their identity or performance, that people wouldn't even slot it in, back when it was possible.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Naqel

[shootaman777]

On 11/26/2016 at 3:18 AM, Xylyssa said:

Ever since Saryn you guys have made terrible decisions regarding reworks (sans Nekros). Saryn's abilities don't synergize the way they are supposed to, she can't survive in ANYTHING without the use of very specific setups, and now Ash's ultimate takes too long to even be useful at anything but Solo and even then he will get gunned down unless he uses his now mandatory Smoke Bomb.

I am honestly willing to accept the cheap and potentially broken aspects of frames you plan to rework if this is the kind of quality we are going to get in them. Take a very hard long think about what you've done wrong and rectify it or you will end up purposely ruining most of your frames.

Either change how you think about certain frames or stop reworking them. I'd rather have broken legacy frames than unusable reworked ones.

Though, I'd certainly like to see reworks to currently 'useless' Warframes (I define 'useless' as 'serves no purpose in an endgame squad'), such as Hydroid, Broberon, Chroma, Atlas,  Mag, Mirage, and Zephyr.  Mag, I'd call for a reversion of the most recent set of 'reworks' (nerfs).  Mirage, I'd call for a more reliable light/dark form mode.  Hydroid, Broberon, Chroma, and Atlas, I'd call for a complete rework of.  Zephyr just needs some lovin', it was heartbreaking to see her nerfed with Movement/Parkour 2.0 with a massive reduction to Tailwind and her gravity reduction passive.  

Other than those who actually need reworks, I'd completely agree with you, DE needs to stop destroying or at least stop worsening Warframes with 'reworks' (nerfs), like what they did with Trinity, Saryn, Ember, Mag, Valkyr, and Ash.