Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[S0V3REiGN]

The issue is more simulor then mirage. They need to lower the mag size or total ammo may be even a little of both. The main issue is that it's too easily spammable.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Reduce Simmulor explosion radius to 25% of it's current range, or make it a slow charge-up weapon like Opticor. That is how you can fix the weapon. The issue isn't Mirage specifically, it's the weapon that's broken and always has been.

It's amazing how many people arguing in here are the xp leeches and "must use broken meta because they don't actually have skill" people. You can tell because their solution is for you to run solo or quit the team every time a Simmulor Mirage enters the mission even when that's half the missions. Why wasn't the recommendation for all Simmulor Mirages to play solo? Clearly they don't need the rest of the team to kill the enemies, so wouldn't that make more sense?

[Coaa]

Cut the guns ammo down to 50-60. Make people actually have to think before shooting it or suck down ammo pods constantly or be forced to use carrier.

It should be a strategic weapon with power. Not a weapon of power and 0 downside. Being able to just run in a straight line clicking endlessly and win any mission isn't good design. Then you have bows and rifles that actually have to line up your shots perfectly to get a kill on a single enemy, while the other 70 enemies in the group are still shooting at you. Or just use simulor and take out a group of 70 while just kinda spraying somewhere next to them.

[Dragazer]

10 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

They nerfed Ash, and now he's actually better. Who knew?

 

Old Blade storm: 100 energy for 18 targets, targets were attacked until killed

Now: 270 energy for 18 targets or 215 with smokescreen, targets can only be attacked 3 times max with each mark costing 15 or 10 energy.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Dragazer

[ThunderZsolt]

1 hour ago, Thundervision said:

Spoiler

 

2 cups of greedy milk to Nazrethim and this sir.

 

Sadly, Mirage & Spamulor is the current epicenter of toxicity from both sides: players who use it, players who don't use it but encounter players who use it.

I'll be straight about this.

Playstyle of typical Cancerage with Spamulor is a pretty damn simple:

• it joins, it doesn't care of you or objectives, it casts 1&3 and runs around constantly spamming orbs. Mission type doesn't matter.
• It doesn't use Prism to blind nearby enemies when someone is down, it doesn't use [2] on Corpus Doorways, it does nothing but running & spamming LMB (heck, all those times I politely asked them to detonate Orbs so we could get the cores and datamass -- ignored)
• all they have to care about is not getting killed (and yet Cancerages can't even...).
• Spamulor doesn't require aiming
• Spamulor regens energy
• Spamulor doesn't consume 10 rounds per shot
• Mirage clones and Spamulor orbs are completely broken in terms of dealing damage

And this is the pinnacle of a brain-dead game and I don't get why DE do nothing while their statement regarding Homer's bird is exactly the current mess that's happening with Spamulor and Mirage. Same goes for Vauban/Banshee Ulti augs and Telos Boltace. It encourages things to play the game for you.

This is my experience with 9/10 Cancerages I see, 1/10 Mirages plays with anything but AoE weapon, uses Eclipse augment and Prism (for kills and blind) and actually can into teamplay.

 

...so sad to see so many folks defending & justifying it. There's more than just effortlessly pressing something to kill everything in range you can find and try in WF, no matter how hard you try to prove otherwise.

Inb4 I get accused for something stupid, like something I don't get or don't know:

  Reveal hidden contents

Glad I hate everything about this space magic-infused stick, from its design and sound to its mechanics.

People saying that everyone has right to play and get fun the way they want are right, however, please, do not forget that it works both ways, folks. And by exterminating everything in range before others players can even react -- or intentionally running in in front of melee-ing players to spam orbs (that's the thing, own experience and flaming chat) -- you're ruining their fun, their desire to play and experience. So don't be those Tenno using the first sentence to justify their selfishness. Amen.

 

As much as I want Mirage + Spamulor combo being balanced out, there's still Telos Boltace. There's still Sonicor/Staticor/Tonkor (now with Multishot Rivens) and now Zarr. If before the problem was about just Mirage being OP with AoE weapons, now it lies between player's behavior and broken synergy with Mirage/Clones and certain weapons. There's also a [2] power which is useless unless you play on Corpus tiles or mod Mirage for Eclipse augment to be useful for others. The current state basically begs you to abuse AoE/Spamulor.

 

 

I agree with most of the stuff you wrote, but I would like to point out, why 2, 4 and the 3 augment aren1T used.

short: narrow minded

long:
2 is useless to begin with, because as you've said, it has very few effects, the most notable is disabling corpus laser doors. However, the door is easily countered by doing dodge roll, it is faster and requires no energy - everyone can get used to roll through corpus doors, problem solved (i catch myself regularly doing a roll even after the camera is destroyed)
And, everyone uses narrow minded, which makes the ability even more useless

4 has so long cast time that unless you build for it (natural talent and/or speed drift) you get downed before you finish the animation. The LoS nerf didn't help it either. And while playing mirage, it is generally faster to kill the enemies around, and revive after. (but I bet half of the posters in this thread would say "that bloody selfish mirage only cares about killing, not rezzing the teammate") We seem to agree that ignoring enemies and starting reviving means suicide most of the time.

Total eclipse isn't like rhino roar or volt speed, you need to hug each other for it to work the whole duration. It only works on defense mission (or old draco where everyone was standing in one place) which is why you only see the augment in organized/recruited squads only.

 

As a mirage user, I'd like to see a rework of her, because I use her for the freedom of weapon selection (eclipse makes literally every weapon good in the game) and fashionframe

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, Krumplifej said:

 

4 has so long cast time that unless you build for it (natural talent and/or speed drift) you get downed before you finish the animation. The LoS nerf didn't help it either. And while playing mirage, it is generally faster to kill the enemies around, and revive after. (but I bet half of the posters in this thread would say "that bloody selfish mirage only cares about killing, not rezzing the teammate") We seem to agree that ignoring enemies and starting reviving means suicide most of the time.

Well, that was a feature of old Blade Storm, it both killed and had some CC attached to it. Clearing the area of enemies is good, but flat out ignoring the bleeding player is a very different thing, which is something that happens regularly, the Miramulor goes around kiling and hopes the others (who may or may not be 1km away) go and do the revive stuff, instead of casting a prisma and use the opportunity to rezz. Right now Mirage is in the same position  Bladespam Ash was, so you must have an idea of what's to come.

2 minutes ago, Krumplifej said:

Total eclipse isn't like rhino roar or volt speed, you need to hug each other for it to work the whole duration. It only works on defense mission (or old draco where everyone was standing in one place) which is why you only see the augment in organized/recruited squads only.

So many parallels with Ash, this time with Smoke Shadow, the augment rarely used due to lack of range and that usual bladespammers had zero duration.

2 minutes ago, Krumplifej said:

 

As a mirage user, I'd like to see a rework of her, because I use her for the freedom of weapon selection (eclipse makes literally every weapon good in the game) and fashionframe

"Rework" is the key word here. DE needs to nerf HoM offensive potential with AoE weapons and make up for it by improving her other abilities.

[Katharsis]

Simulor is annoying without Mirage, leave Mirage alone.

Nerf the travel speed of Simulor projectiles, and maybe the rate of fire.

That's all that should be done as I see it.

[Dizzle22]

If you are defending the combo because you genuinely think it's a legitimate play style and not broken at all... then I really have nothing to say to you. I will not convince you, and you will not convince me.

If you are defending the combo because you've invested heavily (time, forma, etc) into it. You really only have yourself to blame. Well, that's not 100% true, you also have DE to blame for being so historically slow to fix abusive things in their game. It only took them three years to fix Blade Storm after all....

Have some insight/foresight, if something feels broken and cheesy you really have one of two options if you are going to use it. Buy into it and abuse it anyway, only to be upset when they finally do nerf it. Or, accept from the beginning that it is cheese and be okay with them fixing it, AKA the enjoy it while you can concept.

Or, you could just avoid abusive meta completely.

I'm about as non-meta as they come, and even I'm guilty. I had a GPULL Mag. Even though I loathed the play style of Mag + Mesa camping, I built one because it was a great way to get free key invites. I still feel like they went a bit overboard in nerfing gpull, but it is what it is. The combo needed to be removed from the game. I was happy when it was.

I went on to build Mag for a max range Corpus nuke. This was so broken that I knew from the onset that once it caught on enough, it would be nerfed. I was okay with that, and you won't see any post in my history coming here to complain about that nerf. I couldn't possibly defend it with a straight face. It was broken as hell to be able to wipe the map even at sortie levels.

I had my fun with it, and accepted that it was removed with no issues. Even though I never was a spammer, and used it tactically, I'm sure I still ruined someone's mission at some point, so I'm sure they were happy to see it go too. (Even though, more often than not I would be asked why I wasn't spamming it... and would have to explain to people - even other Mag's! - why Polarize didn't work that way anyway...)

Directly on topic, in addition to other suggestion's in the thread specific to Mirage + Simulor. What if the clones consumed extra ammo? Not out of the current magazine, that would suck, but out of the reserve pool? That would mean Mirage players would have to at least care about ammo consumption a bit.

[ChuckMaverick]

6 minutes ago, Dizzle22 said:

Directly on topic, in addition to other suggestion's in the thread specific to Mirage + Simulor. What if the clones consumed extra ammo? Not out of the current magazine, that would suck, but out of the reserve pool? That would mean Mirage players would have to at least care about ammo consumption a bit.

I think that's a very reasonable suggestion, but it wouldn't affect the Simulor very much as it's one of the most ammo efficient weapons in the game.

[kaliazane]

Idk when people realize simulor mirage is old news and start complaining about gas/slash procs after blinds/sleeps.

[jjadned]

quick question is the normal simulor even worth buying if your not MR 12 or just wait?

 

[Tuxie]

52 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

 

Old Blade storm: 100 energy for 18 targets, targets were attacked until killed

Now: 270 energy for 18 targets or 215 with smokescreen, targets can only be attacked 3 times max with each mark costing 15 or 10 energy.

 

Thank you! I was waiting for someone with the numbers to point out his BS.

[Pro3Display]

1 minute ago, Tuxie said:

Thank you! I was waiting for someone with the numbers to point out his BS.

BS as in "Blade Storm" or the other one?

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

10 hours ago, AhziDahaka said:

Honestly the problem is more with the Simulor than with Mirage.

I can live with something like World on Fire or other methods because you generally have to at least use energy or have some kind of drawback to make it work (you might not be able to take down high-level enemies, or you might blow yourself up, etc.).

Simulor, on the other hand, basically rapid-fires Vauban's ult except it does a million times more damage to boot.  You don't even have to aim with it, people just fire it off and everything in the room dies because of the wide area of effect.  Then you've got the Synoid version that adds in ult-like AoE bursts on top of that!

Simulor should really require a charge-up time for the vortex effect, or suffer from a low rate of fire, or have very limited ammo, or something.

 

As for those who want to say "just don't play solo if you don't want to play with my Mirage/Simulor", how about you go play solo instead?  Playing online like that just ruins the experience for everyone else while having others with you does you literally no good, so go do your left-click-to-win snorefest by yourself.

Well. I personally have a 3 loss rule. if I find a sort it that beats me 3 times then f**k your feelings I'm mother losing again. simulor time. I want loot. I wanna use fun loot. that's how I have fun. when you constantly lose, simulor can feel pretty good. revenge is sweet ;)

[Dizzle22]

8 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I think that's a very reasonable suggestion, but it wouldn't affect the Simulor very much as it's one of the most ammo efficient weapons in the game.

Well, the issue here is really two fold. The Simulor itself needs to be be re-balanced, and Mirage's skill needs a tweak. As someone already said, there is nothing stopping a Mirage player from using a Tonkor or another launcher, but at least added ammo consumption would keep it from getting mindless and spammy.

The Simulor, as pointed out a few times here, needs it's ammo nerfed. Bring it in line with the other launchers, and categorize it officially as that while we are at it. Much smaller ammo pool, and uses sniper ammo. Still a powerful gun, spam problem solved.

[jjadned]

1 minute ago, Dizzle22 said:

Well, the issue here is really two fold. The Simulor itself needs to be be re-balanced, and Mirage's skill needs a tweak. As someone already said, there is nothing stopping a Mirage player from using a Tonkor or another launcher, but at least added ammo consumption would keep it from getting mindless and spammy.

The Simulor, as pointed out a few times here, needs it's ammo nerfed. Bring it in line with the other launchers, and categorize it officially as that while we are at it. Much smaller ammo pool, and uses sniper ammo. Still a powerful gun, spam problem solved.

Mirage with zarr and carrier prime will kill everything and anything that comes close gets a shotgun blast in the face powerful enough to give the tigress a run for its money.

[Dizzle22]

9 minutes ago, jjadned said:

Mirage with zarr and carrier prime will kill everything and anything that comes close gets a shotgun blast in the face powerful enough to give the tigress a run for its money.

Okay...

I haven't seen it in action, but that sounds like a powerful combination, however not necessarily a broken/cheesey/abusive one. One does not instantly mean the other.

People aren't really complaining that the Simulor + Mirage combo is powerful. They are complaining that it is mindless and annoying.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Dizzle22

[DxAdder]

2 hours ago, Thundervision said:

People saying that everyone has right to play and get fun the way they want are right, however, please, do not forget that it works both ways, folks. And by exterminating everything in range before others players can even react -- or intentionally running in in front of melee-ing players to spam orbs (that's the thing, own experience and flaming chat) -- you're ruining their fun, their desire to play and experience. So don't be those Tenno using the first sentence to justify their selfishness. Amen.

 

As much as I want Mirage + Spamulor combo being balanced out, there's still Telos Boltace. There's still Sonicor/Staticor/Tonkor (now with Multishot Rivens) and now Zarr. If before the problem was about just Mirage being OP with AoE weapons, now it lies between player's behavior and broken synergy with Mirage/Clones and certain weapons. There's also a [2] power which is useless unless you play on Corpus tiles or mod Mirage for Eclipse augment to be useful for others. The current state basically begs you to abuse AoE/Spamulor.

I as soo tired of casual players trying to "balance" what happens in a PUG or any 4 man team.

I have soo many Meta /Frame weapons combo that will ensure that I pull 70%+ damage in a 4 man vs not meta setups.

Causal players need to deal with the fact there people that are way more powerful than them, no matter how many things you nerf Hardcore players

will ALWAYS Crush you in a 4 man PUG.

 

[DrBorris]

It is threads like these that destroy any chances of Damage 3.0. 

[(XBOX)Oussii]

5 hours ago, Ailissa said:

This, so much this.

 

Mirage would still be useful, it would only effect certain weapons so a lot of Mirage players wouldn't even notice it. 

 

A lot of people want it nerfed or removing completely. 

 

Mirage and Simulor is the single most annoying thing in the game for a good chunk of people. Sooner or later DE will look at it and it will get hit with the nerf bat. 

 

Your comment suggests otherwise.

 

I'm not exactly a spring chicken and my eldest just made me a grandmother but I don't go around calling people kiddo. I don't know anyone that does.

 

The only people that refer to other people as kids or kiddo are those in their teens to late 20's that are trying to sound far older than they actually are. 

now i know for sure ...... thks for clearing this

  

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 11:14 AM, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

I guess the simulor is still selling well.

i dont need to sell. not even for 70p. lol

got a lifetime supply of plat :)

 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

38 minutes ago, DxAdder said:

I as soo tired of casual players trying to "balance" what happens in a PUG or any 4 man team.

I have soo many Meta /Frame weapons combo that will ensure that I pull 70%+ damage in a 4 man vs not meta setups.

Causal players need to deal with the fact there people that are way more powerful than them, no matter how many things you nerf Hardcore players

will ALWAYS Crush you in a 4 man PUG.

 

Your usage of the words Casual and Hardcore are hilarious. It's not about the intensity of the player. I'm MR22. I've got well over a thousand hours in this game, and run sorties regularly and have killed the Stalker hundreds of times. I don't think that makes someone hardcore, others might. You'd have to elaborate on your definition of hardcore. I can say I refuse to use Mirage+Simulor combo because it's broken. I main Ash with a Teleport build...because Bladestorm was a broken meta.

It's about the fact that players gravitate towards the fastest method of killing that requires zero skill to either complete the objectives faster in a zerg-style rng game or to feel strong because they have no skill but still get the most kills by using a broken meta. This is fine for them regardless of the reason they do it...until it affects their teammates' quality of life. 

You like Mirage+Simulor to feel powerful and finish faster with the way it is now? Cool. Play solo. You want to be on teams, then the Simulor needs to be rebalanced. Paraphrasing a very smart player from another thread a while back, "Having a meta isn't an issue, unless that meta makes the next best thing useless by comparison".

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

38 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

i dont need to sell. not even for 70p. lol

got a lifetime supply of plat :)

 

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the DE cycle.

DE CYCLE

1. start
2. nerf previously OP things
3. introduce new things in an OP state
4. leave them alone as long as they are selling well
5. notice sales are starting to slow
6. go to start

We see this repeatedly. amprex -> gamacor -> simulor, or penta -> tonkor, or kohm -> tigris prime, etc.

 

[GhostlightX]

OP's screenshot proves nothing. I get the other players doing less than 5% of the damage very frequently, regardless of equipment I use. It's nothing to do with an OP gun, it's just lazy bums. Give me a couple of days, heck hours, and I could get you an equivalent screen shot with me using a Boltor. Happens all the time.

Edited December 5, 2016 by GhostlightX

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

4 minutes ago, GhostlightX said:

OP's screenshot proves nothing. I get the other players doing less than 5% of the damage very frequently, regardless of equipment I use. It's nothing to do with an OP gun, it's just lazy bums. Give me a couple of days, heck hours, and I could get you an equivalent screen shot with me using a Boltor. Happens all the time.

It proves quite a bit if they were actually trying to play though.