Mirage DPS storming

[TheONLYHamster]

Mirage + Synoid Simulor.......

The combo just makes me want to puke......

Yes it gives really nice DPS with her clones and the simulor itself, but what really T's me off is the fact it gives players a basically push to win button..... 

i often find myself losing out on XP in exterminate and survival missions (especially in sorties where i deliberately bring a weapon below rank 20 to level it up) because these players have ran on ahead or i'm basically out of range of the XP sharing zone from the kills they get. (as far as i was told by a friend theres a certain radius that the XP is shared in from kills forgive me if i am wrong)

either way i end up losing XP and often find me and the other team mates being stuck rock bottom for damage delt and often getting complained and being called (to quote from one player, not mentioning their name) an "Inferior noob", because we couldn't keep up with the stupidly fast pace these players work at or because we didn't deal much damage.

i don't find this very fair IMO, players work at different paces in game granted and these players may just like working at a fast shoot 2 kill rate to finish sorties or mission ASAP. but its getting to a point where its almost as bad or annoying as limbo himself. 

I personally like to heal my allies and give them energy, and i use tigris prime or fragor prime to get me out of sticky situations if i'm surrounded. so i don't expect to deal much dps as it is, but what i don't expect is players over-shadowing other players just because they want to get the mission over and done with, not all players work at the same pace and like to play the game to their own.

The only time i see this working is where its a defense mission and you're surrounded by masses of enemies and you have separate players focusing on separate things, e.g. mirage + simulor for dps killing, Trinity for health/energy support, and possibly 2 other frames for CC or something else. But thats about it.

Just as a reminder this is just my opinion on the mirage + simulor combo, idk if a re-work is needed or a nerf for that matter.

but this is causing a rift between the people i've seen using mirage and other players who try to dps, support (like me) or CC.

idk if i need to broaden my skills at all and i would be very appreciative for any help if i do need to, but i would like to see other peoples opinions on this.

Many thanks TheONLYHamster

 

p.s. I respectfully request that we don't get any rage responses or anything along the lines of "get good" i don't want this turning into a war zone

 

  

Edited December 7, 2016 by TheONLYHamster
mispelt a couple of words

[TheONLYHamster]

10 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

removed by moderator

pal i asked specifically for no rage responses -_- so why?

i agree tigris prime is OP 24k slash is too much but it can't really be spammed as much as the simulor can as its only a 2 bullet capacity, i'm not expecting a paradise for any mission but what i do expect is players to be a little more open minded about other people's play style, yes you are correct someone has to deal dps, but not to the point where there is little to no point in the 3 other players being in the mission with the mirage using said simulor.

i saw at one time where a mirage stormed a whole sortie exterminate (80-100), i didn't really need to heal my allies, couldn't shoot many enemies really....... nor was there any point to using my trinity's energy syphon.....

at the end this guy managed to succeed in getting 79% (impressive i must admit) of the total dps of the mission getting around 200+ kills out of the total 261 to my memory.

not to mention MOST of the people i see playing mirage complain at me for having either such low damage or failing to keep up...... , i don't have a "palace" as you say, but don't you think its a little unfair? 

Edited December 7, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed quoted comment for COC violation

[Xzorn]

It seems like you're trying to play a way the game isn't really built for anymore. Maybe long ago but not these days.

Trinity is only useful on endless missions or Nightmare Raids and I use that term loosely since some players have no energy problems and also don't need her healing. Her biggest value is her mitigation and overshields between levels 30-300. Outside that range she's kinda just trying to fill a role that doesn't exist.

In case or Mirage. She really doesn't do anything else but damage, so nerfing her just makes a useless frame.

In case of Simulor the weapon has limitations and though powerful isn't exactly game breaking. It stumbles hard against heavy armor.

 

The only sensible options would be to alter how Simulor interacts with Mirage's clones. I've though having the orbs not interact with each other would be a decent tweak  It doesn't lower her damage output but it slows her down as she would not create a Vortex any quicker than normal but would create multiples as usual.

[Takkov]

Play with friends, play solo, look for groups in recruiting, there are so many ways to get to the playstyle you want. Also, its been a long time for me since I have seen a Mirage with simulor

[TheONLYHamster]

5 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

It seems like you're trying to play a way the game isn't really built for anymore. Maybe long ago but not these days.

Trinity is only useful on endless missions or Nightmare Raids and I use that term loosely since some players have no energy problems and also don't need her healing. Her biggest value is her mitigation and overshields between levels 30-300. Outside that range she's kinda just trying to fill a role that doesn't exist.

In case or Mirage. She really doesn't do anything else but damage, so nerfing her just makes a useless frame.

In case of Simulor the weapon has limitations and though powerful isn't exactly game breaking. It stumbles hard against heavy armor.

 

The only sensible options would be to alter how Simulor interacts with Mirage's clones. I've though having the orbs not interact with each other would be a decent tweak  It doesn't lower her damage output but it slows her down as she would not create a Vortex any quicker than normal but would create multiples as usual.

 

5 minutes ago, Takkov said:

Play with friends, play solo, look for groups in recruiting, there are so many ways to get to the playstyle you want. Also, its been a long time for me since I have seen a Mirage with simulor

Fair points, i'll have to admit i don't like rushing missions, gives me a headache.

i don't like solo-ing missions apart from spy missions really as that means if there are any mistakes made they're my own and i can learn from them, and i do often play with my friends.

it sounds its time i did adapt to how sorties and high ends are played a bit, but i still fail to see how this warrants players to over-shadow others.

[-KyloRen-]

1 minute ago, TheONLYHamster said:

 i'll have to admit i don't like rushing missions, gives me a headache.

 

I don't like slow missions, that gives me a headache.

[Flirk2]

11 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

i often find myself losing out on XP in exterminate and survival missions (especially in sorties where i deliberately bring a weapon below rank 20 to level it up)

Sorry, what?

You bring a weapon below level 20 to a sortie and then complain about a Simulorage stealing your kills?

Just...

Before people will go all ''I quit as soon as I see Mirage'' (and probably wreck the whole team with host migration, but that's another thing), what possible loss of XP is there? Keep up with the damage dealer (that is, within 50 meters in any direction will do). Or go solo, take all the time you want, and get all the XP for yourself.

16 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

being called (to quote from one player, not mentioning their name) an "Inferior noob",

It's them beeing silly. No excuse for that. One does not simply outdamage or outkll any of the ''DPS'' configurations. They go with that gear specificaly to be on top in damage and kills. People like that need teammates only for the added enemy spawns. But why do you think that the opposite stance that you take - ''don't let them kill everything'' is any better?

Playing with other people you need to be ready to compromise. And, I'm sorry to say it, but the option to get mission done the quickest way possible is the better one. Because if they do the mission quickly, you have to suffer for a short time. You can always replay the mission (if it's not an alert) as you see fit. And if they have to do the mission slowly? They have to suffer for a long time. But time you want them to spend will never get back to them in any way, shape or form.

If you don't respect other people enough to not waste their time without their express permission, why would they respect your sensibilities to low damage and kill score in an after mission report?

Frankly, with how long it takes to kill stuff in sorties even with things like a moded to the gills Lex Prime (5 forma, 3 maxed primed mods included), expecting people to wait for someone to kill those things with a level 20 weapon is just unreasonable.

[Takkov]

Well, looking at the possible rewards, I complete understand why someone would cheese the sorties, as getting nitain is pretty bad, the same goes for the exilus adapter blueprint and some other things in the droptable, I personally am not playing sorties anymore/only rarely, because there is no reward that would make me stay 15mins+10waves defense for it

[Drufo]

That's the reason I play solo whenever I can. People often forget that this is a game and should be played for fun, not rushed in such a way. If I see a Mirage+Synoid Simulor, or a Telos Boltace spammer, I already know in that mission I can only keep up to the objective. If you want to play at your pace, your only hope is to find a clan/friends who play like you.

BTW why everyone complained that Ash stealed all the kills up to the point DE reworked him, but Mirage+Simulor is untouchable? Bah

[TheONLYHamster]

8 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Sorry, what?

You bring a weapon below level 20 to a sortie and then complain about a Simulorage stealing your kills?

i just don't use said weapon i'm leveling, doing akkad or Stofler just gets boring at times, plus i don't class this as kill stealing.

8 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Playing with other people you need to be ready to compromise. And, I'm sorry to say it, but the option to get mission done the quickest way possible is the better one. Because if they do the mission quickly, you have to suffer for a short time. You can always replay the mission (if it's not an alert) as you see fit. And if they have to do the mission slowly? They have to suffer for a long time. But time you want them to spend will never get back to them in any way, shape or form.

If you don't respect other people enough to not waste their time without their express permission, why would they respect your sensibilities to low damage and kill score in an after mission report?

but isn't this game about team work? whats the point in me being in said mission when they could easily go into a solo themselves if they want to get a job done quickly? i do respect my team mates, but not to the point where they're just plain rude at the end just because they want to get the mission done, its not a one way street where i give and they take and i get nothing back. plus i wouldn't want them to suffer either.

Edited December 7, 2016 by TheONLYHamster

[Spiritfarer]

2 minutes ago, Drufo said:

That's the reason I play solo whenever I can. People often forget that this is a game and should be played for fun, not rushed in such a way. If I see a Mirage+Synoid Simulor, or a Telos Boltace spammer, I already know in that mission I can only keep up to the objective. If you want to play at your pace, your only hope is to find a clan/friends who play like you.

BTW why everyone complained that Ash stealed all the kills up to the point DE reworked him, but Mirage+Simulor is untouchable? Bah

Both Mirage and Simulor have been nerfed (I think Mirage about 3 times now..?)

It's kinda like another poster said... there's no middle ground with Mirage. Either she's a DPS frame and can DPS, or she'll become a garbage bin DPS frame that can't DPS.

Oddly one of the nerfs was to Mirage's now almost useless CC...

[TheONLYHamster]

2 minutes ago, AllSystemsGo said:

Both Mirage and Simulor have been nerfed (I think Mirage about 3 times now..?)

It's kinda like another poster said... there's no middle ground with Mirage. Either she's a DPS frame and can DPS, or she'll become a garbage bin DPS frame that can't DPS.

Oddly one of the nerfs was to Mirage's now almost useless CC...

Tbh i actually didn't know that she'd been nerfed already. 

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

 

Fair points, i'll have to admit i don't like rushing missions, gives me a headache.

i don't like solo-ing missions apart from spy missions really as that means if there are any mistakes made they're my own and i can learn from them, and i do often play with my friends.

it sounds its time i did adapt to how sorties and high ends are played a bit, but i still fail to see how this warrants players to over-shadow others.

 

There's a lot of things in play that create a situation where one player hogs the game over others. When it comes to Sorties I myself just want it over with. I do endurance runs where I take up a lot of time theory crafting things and often fight enemies well above Sorties level range so to me Sorties aren't usually much fun. Just another daily quest.

I usually do Sorties and other missions solo when possible so I don't have to deal with other players and they don't have to deal with me. In today's Sorties I accidentally still had it on public and I was "that guy" for sure. I jumped in the Alad V assassination with Mesa and killed him in 3 seconds before the team even got in the room.

One of the biggest contributors to the rush method of game play is that there's no reward for taking your time. Enemies don't drop anything worth while anymore.

This is why I tend to favor endless missions and hang out long term. You can keep a high kill rate of course but it doesn't have that "Just get it over with" feeling.

[Spiritfarer]

Just now, TheONLYHamster said:

Tbh i actually didn't know that she'd been nerfed already. 

Yep. The big one was that all of her clones used to fire.

[TheONLYHamster]

3 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

This is why I tend to favor endless missions and hang out long term. You can keep a high kill rate of course but it doesn't have that "Just get it over with" feeling.

I do like endless missions makes me feel like my reward was earned for.

perhaps the longer missions go on for, perhaps DE might reward higher credits or maybe even small amounts of platnum as an insentive, don't think that would be pretty for endless missions if that got implemented though :L

[Flirk2]

3 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

i just don't use said weapon i'm leveling, doing akkad or Stofler just gets boring at times, plus i don't class this as kill stealing.

Then what is it with ''loss of XP''? Passivly leveng weapon benefits from teammate's kills, not from yours.

5 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

but isn't this game about team work? whats the point in me being in said mission when they could easily go into a solo themselves if they want to get a job done quickly? i do respect my team mates, but not to the point where they're just plain rude at the end just because they want to get the mission done, its not a one way street where i give and they take and i get nothing back.

Going public don't expect teamwork. You get random people. Competent players from that radom group taking gear with them that will let them solo the mission just in case of a discnnect, other randoms in the squad falling, invasion happening in the wrong moment and so on.

You can expect teamwork from people you know well. And sometimes from people in pre-made group.

People wiling to go for teamwork won't call you names for low damage score... But they also more often than not will bring best gear for the mission to ensure a success.

14 minutes ago, Drufo said:

BTW why everyone complained that Ash stealed all the kills up to the point DE reworked him, but Mirage+Simulor is untouchable? Bah

Have you ever got shot by a level 40 Corrupted Bombard under Ancient Healer's damage reduction and could not kill that Ancient because of an Ash Blade Storming that thinig for what felt like half an hour? That's why a lot of people dislike Blade Storm. (and it still gives a target immunity AFAIK)

Now, can Mirage make her squad that miserable? No. She could make a defense a little longer by blinding the map and making teammates go find and kill blinded enemies in remote locations one by one. But even that got a nerf.

[TheONLYHamster]

1 minute ago, Flirk2 said:

Then what is it with ''loss of XP''? Passivly leveng weapon benefits from teammate's kills, not from yours.

i believe that might be down to either my own fault by being outside of the Xp share zone or them running on ahead.

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Going public don't expect teamwork. You get random people. Competent players from that radom group taking gear with them that will let them solo the mission just in case of a discnnect, other randoms in the squad falling, invasion happening in the wrong moment and so on.

Perhaps that's where the game needs to change then, rather than allowing random players to join up and some players getting left behind because others just want to get a mission over and done with perhaps there needs to be something to enforce players to be supportive towards each-other, rather than looking out for themselves, something i personally would fully support. Going solo then would probably be a very viable solution if you want something over and done with rather quickly.

5 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Have you ever got shot by a level 40 Corrupted Bombard under Ancient Healer's damage reduction and could not kill that Ancient because of an Ash Blade Storming that thinig for what felt like half an hour? That's why a lot of people dislike Blade Storm. (and it still gives a target immunity AFAIK)

Now, can Mirage make her squad that miserable? No. She could make a defense a little longer by blinding the map and making teammates go find and kill blinded enemies in remote locations one by one. But even that got a nerf.

 Not sure where this is coming from, but i've seen mirages with synoid simulors wrecking level 50-60 ish heavy gunners in about 4 shots. and yes i have been shot by corrupted bombards with ancient healers near by, its annoying but killing the ancient then the bombard would've been my logical option first. this is why i don't like rushing certain missions. 

[Flirk2]

23 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

i believe that might be down to either my own fault by being outside of the Xp share zone or them running on ahead.

There is a UI indcator for that now. And still you'll get a hard time convincing people to stay in range.

Even Trinity's Blessing nerf did not manage to force people to stay within 50 meters of each other.

23 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

Perhaps that's where the game needs to change then, rather than allowing random players to join up and some players getting left behind because others just want to get a mission over and done with perhaps there needs to be something to enforce players to be supportive towards each-other, rather than looking out for themselves, something i personally would fully support. Going solo then would probably be a very viable solution if you want something over and done with rather quickly.

There was. The old void defense and somewhat interception.

To get the most out of their keys, people wanted to stay as long as they could. And had to work as a team. It even came to a point that after getting down once or twice some people started to actually stick with their team!

Now there is nothing similar.

No one in their right mind will do void defense now. And the nullifier buff that lets them collapse Frost's Snow Globe just by touching it with their bubble will not let endless fissures to take that place. With how enemies spawn inside the globe. Half of them - nulliiers, which collapse it instantly. No more ''20 waves of t3D solo on an unmodded Frost with a modded Dread''.

Not to mention, that you have to open relics to get anything from those. You can't even farm traces that way.

And anythng that will force teamwork will make solo play impossible.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Flirk2

[EinheriarJudith]

25 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

i believe that might be down to either my own fault by being outside of the Xp share zone or them running on ahead.

Perhaps that's where the game needs to change then, rather than allowing random players to join up and some players getting left behind because others just want to get a mission over and done with perhaps there needs to be something to enforce players to be supportive towards each-other, rather than looking out for themselves, something i personally would fully support. Going solo then would probably be a very viable solution if you want something over and done with rather quickly.

 Not sure where this is coming from, but i've seen mirages with synoid simulors wrecking level 50-60 ish heavy gunners in about 4 shots. and yes i have been shot by corrupted bombards with ancient healers near by, its annoying but killing the ancient then the bombard would've been my logical option first. this is why i don't like rushing certain missions. 

the issue is not with mirage. dont let anyone tell you the majority of mirages in pubs dont use simulor because i have yet to see one not use that weapon. i removed that weapon from my own inventory because of my digust with it. boltace is one you dont see too often but DE tried to lessen the annoyance of it by making the AOE melee stance only. the sad part is maybe DE thought the weapon was cool but forgot how human beings are. path of least resistance and all. abusers are exactly why we cannot have nice things.

to the people saying well you can just form groups. people have been growing quite unwilling to do things that dont profit them say going full rotation on most endless missions unless drop table nets them something they think is worth it. DE punishes solo play. how? look at spawn rate, look at rewards, look at how affinity is handled. some aspects definitely need a change so im in agreement with op its already out of hand.

Edited December 7, 2016 by EinheriarJudith

[Xzorn]

35 minutes ago, TheONLYHamster said:

I do like endless missions makes me feel like my reward was earned for.

perhaps the longer missions go on for, perhaps DE might reward higher credits or maybe even small amounts of platnum as an insentive, don't think that would be pretty for endless missions if that got implemented though :L

 

Technically most anything you do can reward plat. So endless missions reward plat but yea people have been asking for scaling rewards forever. We got a little bit with Void Fissures but unless  you're doing an Axi, it's a waste of time and the traces don't scale up to equal a Capture/Exterminate spam until the 1 hour mark.  So if an Axi endless isn't up the scaling rewards thing might as well not exist.

[TheONLYHamster]

8 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

the issue is not with mirage. dont let anyone tell you the majority of mirages in pubs dont use simulor because i have yet to see one not use that weapon. i removed that weapon from my own inventory because of my digust with it. boltace is one you dont see too often but DE tried to lessen the annoyance of it by making the AOE melee stance only. the sad part is maybe DE thought the weapon was cool but forgot how human beings are. path of least resistance and all. abusers are exactly why we cannot have nice things.

to the people saying well you can just form groups. people have been growing quite unwilling to do things that dont profit them say going full rotation on most endless missions unless drop table nets them something they think is worth it. DE punishes solo play. how? look at spawn rate, look at rewards, look at how affinity is handled. some aspects definitely need a change so im in agreement with op its already out of hand.

a more ridiculous solution would be to ban mirage from using the simulor until a reworks introduced, but we can all agree that would be pointless and would be restricting the player on their build possibilities.

tbh though i an one of those players who doesn't really care about farming in game and more about having fun and helping out where i can. i think we need a fairer system than something that's more rewarding perhaps platinum could be rewards for the number of allies your heal/revive or stay next to within something like a 10 meter radius.

[Artekkor]

I'm surprised people are actually defending Simulor Mirage.

She's on the same plane of existence as Tonkor, and Tonkor requires at least SOME aiming. Simulor on the other hand just requires to shoot in general direction of the enemy. I mean... So does Ignis, but Ignis eats ammo like hell and doesn't even do that much.

Simulor Mirage is the same thing as P42W only instead it's LMB.

Not Mirage nor Simulor must be nerfed as a result of this, but the way they interact with each other (instant combination and following explosion of orbs) must be denied. This little mechanical oversight is what causes the issues.

And for those who don't get it: the issue is S.M. robbing her squad of gameplay and participation (just like Old Saryn and Old Ash). Why have infantry standing by when you droped nuke on enemy's head anyway?

[TheONLYHamster]

8 minutes ago, Artek94 said:

I'm surprised people are actually defending Simulor Mirage.

She's on the same plane of existence as Tonkor, and Tonkor requires at least SOME aiming. Simulor on the other hand just requires to shoot in general direction of the enemy. I mean... So does Ignis, but Ignis eats ammo like hell and doesn't even do that much.

Simulor Mirage is the same thing as P42W only instead it's LMB.

Not Mirage nor Simulor must be nerfed as a result of this, but the way they interact with each other (instant combination and following explosion of orbs) must be denied. This little mechanical oversight is what causes the issues.

And for those who don't get it: the issue is S.M. robbing her squad of gameplay and participation (just like Old Saryn and Old Ash). Why have infantry standing by when you droped nuke on enemy's head anyway?

thank you for backing up my point man! this is exactly what i am on about

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

[TheONLYHamster]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)HSomDevil said:

Best response of this whole forum yet XD 

GG good sir, GG