My personal Apology to the Fans

[Ternski]

1 minute ago, xFrostKnightx said:

Welcome to warframe. If you think this is bad, you should see other game forums. People literally support being dumped on by other companys, at least here theres some sensible discussions. It's just posts like these bring out players who just want to get angry about everything. 

Some sad things going on. Well, now i understand a bit more, thank you =(

[xFrostKnightx]

2 minutes ago, unknow99 said:

Bonne chance pour la suite, on regrettera tes choix artistiques!

Translation for those of us that are weebs and don't know french/italian?

[kubbi]

34 minutes ago, Ternski said:

I am. But i also can divide my job and things I'm doing for myself.
Such minor changes do not change the design at all. Everything remained almost exactly the same.
I don't see ANY reasons for all this drama.

He did admit he got too passionate yes. Even though you do it for a job as an artist you cant help but do it for yourself as well. I cant imagine a passionate artist doing things where there is no love, effort and a lot of thought involved in any work that you do, let it be for others or yourself. And minor changes can make a big difference. 

Its unfortunate it ended this way but I can understand his frustrations pretty well.

[rapt0rman]

Honestly, the artist in me understands that it sucks to have your artistic integrity compromised, but incidentally that same artist in me agrees with every single change they made to the design.

[LazerusKI]

4 minutes ago, VermillionScourge said:

So what you are saying is we don't matter? Our opinions don't matter and how we view this situation doesn't matter because we will eat it up like the good 26 million registered "users" "loosers" we are?

FTFY

sadly thats usually how it is. the larges mass doesnt care about it

[Ternski]

2 minutes ago, VermillionScourge said:

So what you are saying is we don't matter? Our opinions don't matter and how we view this situation doesn't matter because we will eat it up like the good 26 million registered "users" we are?

You really want to do drama from nothing, aren't you? Just don't eat it and don't support it. if you don't want. Wow. Nobody stop you.

Still it's not you who makes decisions, it's DE and they have that right, you like it or not.

[unknow99]

1 minute ago, xFrostKnightx said:

Translation for those of us that are weebs and don't know french/italian?

Oh sorry ( I know Ignus is a french speaker,so seeing a message in your mother tongue seems more personal) :

Bonne chance pour la suite, on regrettera tes choix artistiques!

"Good luck for the future, we'll regret your artistic choices!"

[Vilemyre]

Just now, rapt0rman said:

Honestly, the artist in me understands that it sucks to have your artistic integrity compromised, but incidentally that same artist in me agrees with every single change they made to the design.

When you take a contract you should be ready to give up that artistic integrity. But also its understand how someone can get into a heated argument about something they worked on being change din a way that they feel ruins the design.

People view this differently be it commissioners or full contracts. Some wont care as much. Others might actually get bothered and there is a lot of factors to go into it as well such a dedication and the effort put it. Can quickly feel awful a piece you may have worked on that you feel proud of quickly edited and people praising the edits more than the piece you worked on.

[Vilemyre]

2 minutes ago, Ternski said:

You really want to do drama from nothing, aren't you? Just don't eat it and don't support it. if you don't want. Wow. Nobody stop you.

Still it's not you who makes decisions, it's DE and they have that right, you like it or not.

That doesn't mean I don't have my right to disagree with it. Just as you still have your right to support it.

Frankly I don't care what choice DE does at the end of the day the skin doesn't affect me because i'm not going to buy it or be forced to buy it. But I am still entitled to my opinion to say dropping someone from the dev team because he was upset about changes he felt ruined the design a little extreme and outright bad.

[fredaven]

It feels like this thread is starting to suffer from some hyperbol. This entire thing is a non-issue. This stuff happens *all the time* in the creative industry.


If a freelancer was giving me trouble in a project I would drop them like a rock.

Edit for clarification: It's a non issue because freelancers move on, companies move on. If DE was really keen on keep on going with this specific style for their deluxe skins they would have found a way. In the end I *suspect* it was time to turn the page. That combined with some..heated? communication sealed the deal.

Edited December 14, 2016 by fredaven
clarification

[Ternski]

1 minute ago, VermillionScourge said:

That doesn't mean I don't have my right to disagree with it. Just as you still have your right to support it.

Frankly I don't care what choice DE does at the end of the day the skin doesn't affect me because i'm not going to buy it or be forced to buy it. But I am still entitled to my opinion to say dropping someone from the dev team because he was upset about changes he felt ruined the design a little extreme and outright bad.

We don't know what really happened.

Anyhow, to each his own.

[Vilemyre]

Just now, Ternski said:

We don't know what really happened.

Anyhow, to each his own.

And until DE says something about it our opinions will stay the same. So yeah to each their own.

[Ryhaal]

1 hour ago, unknow99 said:

From one of our reddit brothers, tyrannoAdjudica :

As a Indie game designer I understand why Ignus did this and his amazing work will surely be missed, but I simply cannot get why the DE art team had to make the changes. What I don't understand the most is why going against the flow of the design.

I mean, okay, there's is less detailed spikes and they changed the hip to look less choppy/burnt and more "soft", which is bad but not as bad as some people see it. The addition of cloth is really a not needed change but both version could work if DE could make it more fitting to the overall design. And last we have that tumor-like bulge on the elbow which is a big no and the head spike.

Personally? The head spike could actually work. If it followed the flow, the streamlined design, it would remind of the Ember's Pheonix helmet in my opinion. That's the problem with the spike. It's not bad per se, is just badly placed. Putted there just for the sake of it without no rime or reason or thought. 

And then there is my main complain with this:
What. Have they done. To the anatomy.

THAT WHITE ARM IS COMPLETELY MESSED UP. It's longer than the black one! The legs are bigger, yes but they're also longer and they changed the position of her crotch??? Why?? The head is smaller?! Why DE? Why? Is there nobody there that understands anatomy? Or do we need to make the doll sized proportions you see in Korean MMOs?

[polarity]

The design has this whole lava/smoke/ash motif going on, and then someone comes along and sticks a bloody great knife blade in the top of its head.

"Put spikes on it!"  That's the kind of design idea I'd expect from a 10 year old boy.

If they wanted some kind of crest like on the other Ember helmets, then they should have asked the original artist to add one, then at least it would have fit in with the rest of the theme, instead of sticking out like a sore thumb, and ruining an otherwise very elegant design.

[xFrostKnightx]

6 minutes ago, Ryhaal said:

-snip-

Prime example of somebody complaining for the sake of complaining. You act as if the 3D modeler is going to copy the body proportions to the dot. Also don't bandwagon on the hate train just for the sake of the opotunity presenting itself, swearing makes everything you say invalid and not worth even considering. 

[RazulDarkwood]

Oh man why you had to stop before you make one for Volt :(

[fredaven]

8 minutes ago, xFrostKnightx said:

Prime example of somebody complaining for the sake of complaining. You act as if the 3D modeler is going to copy the body proportions to the dot. Also don't bandwagon on the hate train just for the sake of the opotunity presenting itself, swearing makes everything you say invalid and not worth even considering. 

This pretty much

[Hidari]

53 minutes ago, Ryhaal said:

As a Indie game designer I understand why Ignus did this and his amazing work will surely be missed, but I simply cannot get why the DE art team had to make the changes. What I don't understand the most is why going against the flow of the design.

I mean, okay, there's is less detailed spikes and they changed the hip to look less choppy/burnt and more "soft", which is bad but not as bad as some people see it. The addition of cloth is really a not needed change but both version could work if DE could make it more fitting to the overall design. And last we have that tumor-like bulge on the elbow which is a big no and the head spike.

Personally? The head spike could actually work. If it followed the flow, the streamlined design, it would remind of the Ember's Pheonix helmet in my opinion. That's the problem with the spike. It's not bad per se, is just badly placed. Putted there just for the sake of it without no rime or reason or thought. 

And then there is my main complain with this:
What. Have they done. To the anatomy.

THAT WHITE ARM IS COMPLETELY MESSED UP. It's longer than the black one! The legs are bigger, yes but they're also longer and they changed the position of her crotch??? Why?? The head is smaller?! Why DE? Why? Is there nobody there that understands anatomy? Or do we need to make the doll sized proportions you see in Korean MMOs?

Okay, and as someone that has worked in between multiple indie dev groups as both a freelancer making renders for the game to helping oversee workflow and even observing what both directors and especially producers are asking of the game; I can wholeheartedly say that you do not understand CONCEPT ART.

 

If you had any kind of actual idea of what you were talking about you would understand why the edits were made that way, but since you clearly do not understand the core concept, I will explain.

 

the elongated, thinner arm is to emphasize the elbow and bicep to show the changes made to both thickness and design. The edits to the crotch were made to both show the changes in design to the hips but also show that when rendering th hips need to be shorter than the previous build to help incorporate the additions they drew on. As for your opinions on the additions; they are irrelevant as they help Ember stick to her theme of having something on the hip and something on the head. It was bound to happen.

the idea of concept art is just that, a concept. It is not meant to represent the final product, but a rough draft of what is wanted. Changed parts are accentuated so that when the piece goes down the work line people can notice the changes made by simply switching between the new and previous works of art. 

As for your gripes on the anatomy, this can be anything from style choice to rigging limitations. Remember that most animations in the game are universal and it would take more than DE has staffed to make it "Anatomically correct" and cater to everyone that insignificant complaint, also taking things into considerations with the setting, surprise surprise, the game about space ninja robots is more stylized to comic book proportions.

what is a theme even?

[Ryhaal]

11 minutes ago, xFrostKnightx said:

Prime example of somebody complaining for the sake of complaining. You act as if the 3D modeler is going to copy the body proportions to the dot. Also don't bandwagon on the hate train just for the sake of the opotunity presenting itself, swearing makes everything you say invalid and not worth even considering. 

Okay. Let's change the tone then.

Even tho I think everything I said before the anatomy bit it's not "hating", again some of the parts of the design I said are pretty okay or could be if slightly tweaked.
And yes, you're right again, the 3D modeler is not gonna copy the anatomy fully. But that goes beyond my point. My point was that there was no need to change the anatomy in the concept art itself. What pisses me off is the fact that the art team wanted so much to alter stuff that they didn't even considered the anatomy of the subject correct. So they went and changed it, making it simply wrong. And this is not a matter of taste or anything, it's a matter of doing a limb bigger than another one or changing proportions with no clear reason. Where I can kinda guess why they made changes to the design, I can't even fathom the reasons that pushed them to change the body.

There, is this better?

[Valiant]

50 minutes ago, unknow99 said:

Hey hey hey hold on, that doesn't automatically make all the future skins rubbish...

Mynki & the others still manage to do good stuff, eventhough Ignusdei's designs are great!

Fashionframe took a hit, but next deluxe stuff won't necessarily look like a toddler's work aswell. Those who don't know who's behind their pixelated characters won't probably notice a huge difference. :p

Bonne chance pour la suite, on regrettera tes choix artistiques!

Nova deluxe says otherwise.

Others may be nice (questionable) but the difference was that the concept was coming from someone outside and independent of de with a fresh perspective. That changes things, especially if the next source isn't from elsewhere  

[Voghelm]

30 minutes ago, Ryhaal said:

-post-

Not to offend you, but if you really think that anatomy (we're talking about humans, right?) on the original artwork wasn't #*($%%@, I honestly doubt your knoweldge on the subject. 

In regards to the hand, all they did is basically edit the existing hand to look longer, like it should, which probably took 10 seconds, because that's a schematic edit of an existing concept artwork. 

Nobody's going to make an exact 1:1 copy of a conceptual artwork. It's up to the 3d modellers to make the magic happen.

Edited December 14, 2016 by LeCauchemare

[Nordenfelt_]

Well, it is really a shame to see. DE losing such a good artist.
I wish best of luck for you, Ignus, and I hope what we will see your creations in other game projects.
Stay cool, man!

[Ternski]

3 minutes ago, Naith said:

Nova deluxe says otherwise.

Others may be nice (questionable) but the difference was that the concept was coming from someone outside and independent of de with a fresh perspective. That changes things, especially if the next source isn't from elsewhere  

So much hate to Nova deluxe... 
Am I the only one who thinks that Nova delux looks very interesting (even with those strange colors) and have some original idea?
P.S. Nope, i am not the only one.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Ternski

[NightmareT12]

2 minutes ago, Naith said:

Nova deluxe says otherwise.

Others may be nice (questionable) but the difference was that the concept was coming from someone outside and independent of de with a fresh perspective. That changes things, especially if the next source isn't from elsewhere  

Not really though. It doesn't look bad, it's just different. Quality remains the same for it's the same people behind it.

[Voghelm]

2 minutes ago, Naith said:

Nova deluxe says otherwise.

Others may be nice (questionable) but the difference was that the concept was coming from someone outside and independent of de with a fresh perspective. That changes things, especially if the next source isn't from elsewhere  

Nova Deluxe is still a well made skin with questionable coloring (and even that is still subjective). Not liking something doesn't automatically make it rubbish.