[Spoilers] Wrapping up the Helminth Charger's bugs/issues and Community thoughts (constructed post)

[Rush95]

This thread is meant to sum up the problems with the Helminth Charger and the Community's thoughts on the subject in a very explicit and helpful manner for DE. While there are some things I may or may not agree with, I think we all need to think calmly and try to rationalize the current problems. So, at the moment:

 

Known bugs/Issues

-The Helminth Charger's model is using the same animations as Kubrows, which makes the model clip, glitch and do abnormal movements. 

-Sound effects are copied from Kubrows as well. It sometimes barks or howls.

-Walks abnormaly fast inside the ship, sometimes floats in missions instead of walking/running.

-Armor placement is severely dislocated, I'm not even sure if it was supposed to be equipable. Many times the armor floats or sticks inside the model.

-The collar is bugged; once your Helminth Charger is incubated, it won't be equipable until you re-log on Warframe. Forcing the pet into stasis and waking it up might also help.

-Spellcheck: The name ''Helminth'' shows up as ''Helminith'' on the mod descriptions and codex. The description also says it's ''A pet bread from the infestation'' instead of ''bred''.

-The Helminth Hunt mod description seems to have a bit of text that does not belong, specifically: ''An unused, unfused artifact. The kubrow charges ahead to attack an enemy, dealing 160 damage to all in its path''

 

Community thoughts

-A true 'infested Kubrow' model for the pet is preferred. While the Community has been asking for an infested dog for a while, it makes no sense lore-wise (it's an infested Grineer that was born out of a Kubrow egg?). Many of us would be delighted with a more suited model for the pet. Already solved: DE showcased some new Helminth Charger Models in Devstream #85, which will then be implemented in-game to replace the current one. For those of us who like the current model, it will probably be automatically available as a skin. No other info at the moment!

-Specific sound effects for the infested pet. We know it's somewhat of a rushed thing since DE was exhausted at the time, so maybe we could have some nasty/disgusting infested sounds for it once you come back?

-Although getting infected isn't difficult, getting rid of the cyst or ''curing'' every frame means we have to incubate a Charger for every cyst we have. This is very worksome, and the cyst is somewhat annoying/disgusting to see for some of us. It'd be quite nice if we could hide it or optionally be immune to it through some method after the first removal.  Already solved:

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/814144275265056768?ref_src=twsrc^tfw. Credit to schilds on the forum for the link and to Jenra on Twitter for bringing up the issue directly with Steve.

-Small nitpicking here, we know it was rushed, but the abillities are exactly the same as the ones from Huras and Sunika. Would it be possible to have a mod specifically designed for the Helminth Charger? Something that'd make us think ''Wow, that is truly an infested and disgusting pet''.

 

There are many things that I don't agree with related to the Helminth Charger (comparison to Kubrows: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/742276-spoilers-powercreep-again-kubrows-and-helminth-chargers/), like the rushed model and all that placeholder stuff, but I think making a post about it where we can rationally discuss fixes and suggestions is a nice step forward to convince DE to do some changes (besides maybe some 'touch ups' mentioned by Steve in his Twitter post, since it sounds more like a few fixes: https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/814576040815316992). 

 

Share your thoughts bellow, and please correct me if there are any mistakes on the post. Have a good one, Tenno!

 

TLDR; Model, sounds and animations need a fix, armor placement is disjointed. There are also some spelling errors on the mods and bits of text that don't belong. Would be great if we could have some of the changes mentioned above, and not just cutting out the Grineer head and leaving it at that. The objective of the post is to refine this awesome pet idea, which can be made into something cool and worth working on.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Rush95

[lightdragon64]

i believe literally everything about the helminth charger is placeholder, i'd imagine that it is going to get a new model, animations, and sounds, (skill set?).

in fact i'm sure it's confirmed to be place holder

[Rush95]

1 minute ago, lightdragon64 said:

i believe literally everything about the helminth charger is placeholder, i'd imagine that it is going to get a new model, animations, and sounds, (skill set?).

in fact i'm sure it's confirmed to be place holder

Not exactly confirmed, I actually fear it's the opposite. I think they'll add the sounds and fix the animations/armor placements, but leave the model and skills on. It'd be really bad if they just cut off the Grineer head and called it a day, and that's why I made this post, to help them convince it's a good concept that can be refined and turned into something unique and not just something to please the fans.

[Genitive]

I agree with what you wrote. This whole thing seems to me like it has been put into the game just for the sake of having it, with little thought. I don't think slight touch-ups will be enough and I hope the devs will at least consider making a more unique model for the pet. Because right now breeding it is not really worth the effort, everything screams 'not done yet'.

 

^{Seriously, it's like Kavat abominations, only deliberate.}

Edited December 31, 2016 by Genitive

[A7xConnor]

14 minutes ago, lightdragon64 said:

i believe literally everything about the helminth charger is placeholder, i'd imagine that it is going to get a new model, animations, and sounds, (skill set?).

in fact i'm sure it's confirmed to be place holder

Steve said on Twitter everything was intended and not placeholder though. But did say they may make some tweaks/changes next year when the team is back.

[Rush95]

3 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I agree with what you wrote. This whole thing seems to me like it has been put into the game just for the sake of having it, with little thought. I don't think slight touch-ups will be enough and I hope the devs will at least consider making a more unique model for the pet. Because right now breeding it is not really worth the effort, everything screams 'not done yet'.

 

^{Seriously, it's like Kavat abominations, only deliberate.}

Yes exactly, which is why I thought of writting every known issue and propose some changes (including the ones the Community wanted). I hope we can help them and convince them to do some proper refining to the pet. Any help would be appreciated, even bumping the thread! :) 

[nyxos]

17 minutes ago, Rush95 said:

-Although getting infected isn't difficult, getting rid of the cyst or ''curing'' every frame means we have to incubate a charger for every cyst we have. It is somewhat annoying to have, and while it's not the end of the world (like some players have said because of FashionFrame), it'd be quite great if we could hide it, or be immune to it through some method.

Personal opinions are different on this. I'm a founder that comes and goes to the game with breaks in between. I'll drop the game completely if this disgusting thing I don't even want to look at will stay on my warframe.

[Rush95]

6 minutes ago, nyxos said:

Personal opinions are different on this. I'm a founder that comes and goes to the game with breaks in between. I'll drop the game completely if this disgusting thing I don't even want to look at will stay on my warframe.

I did take that into consideration, but I don't think mentioning extreme cases would help here (as it'd sound more like a warning than a suggestion). But I will update the main post to reflect it better though, this way I should be able to cover more opinions. After all, endgame is basically just FashionFrame, since we burn through content easily. Thanks for the input!

Edited December 31, 2016 by Rush95

[nyxos]

Just now, Rush95 said:

I did take that into consideration, but I don't think mentioning extreme cases would help here (as it'd sound more like a warning than a suggestion). But I will update the main post to reflect it better though, this way I should be able to cover more opinions. After all, endgame is basically just FashionFrame, since we burn through content easily. Thanks for the input!

It's not just about fashionframe. I can't look at it without feeling physically ill.

[schilds]

 

[Rush95]

Just now, schilds said:

 

Wonderful! I didn't know about this, so I'll add it to the post along with your names :) thanks man!

[Fast_98]

I'm just hoping for a mini juggy skin now lol.

[Maceariex]

Judging by how bad the clipping is and such with being able to equip Kubrow armours onto the Helminth Charger, I really want to say it is a placeholder an as for being infected again after I made it and such I haven't seen a new cyst appear on my frame since and I know a few of my friends I team up with daily still are infected.

[nyxos]

3 minutes ago, Maceariex said:

Judging by how bad the clipping is and such with being able to equip Kubrow armours onto the Helminth Charger, I really want to say it is a placeholder an as for being infected again after I made it and such I haven't seen a new cyst appear on my frame since and I know a few of my friends I team up with daily still are infected.

Friend has another cyst after draining it from his Nidus.

[Rush95]

On 31/12/2016 at 2:52 AM, nyxos said:

Friend has another cyst after draining it from his Nidus.

It's not curable. Rather, you will always be infected until we get a quest about the cure (as teased by Steve). Another thing worth mentioning is that the Cyst has a hidden, final form that we do not know of yet. I've been infection-free ever since Helminth was revealed, so I'm curious if it'll affect other players aswell.

[Shards-of-a-Soul]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:38 PM, schilds said:

 

So Nidus was made to piss people off. That actually makes sense, given the quality of anything that came from this update.

[HunRii]

The mods for the pet are not bad.  They go along with what an infested charger does.  I doubt they will be changed.

 

Tweaks are not needed for the helminth model.  A total re-work so that whatever skin is used fits the skeletal frame properly needs to be the starting point.  The re-use of the kubrow sounds does NOT fit the model being used.  However, those sounds might work with a proper model.

 

A proper model would also make it so that any armor used would fit properly too.  Also, regalia would show properly too.

 

Let's not mention the fact that every charger uses exactly the same model with the same energy color.  You can't even properly customize the color scheme to make them look all that personal to you.  Something that is important to many of us who play the game which is evident in the whole rage at the visible space herpes outbreak.

[Delta-Epsilon_Limit]

7 hours ago, LeighWong said:

The mods for the pet are not bad.  They go along with what an infested charger does.  I doubt they will be changed.

Idk we're getting our third kubrow finisher attack. I want to see something more along the lines of spine strike 

[HunRii]

Honestly, the mods being updated/replaced still is secondary to the model being re-done.  It's just done poorly at this point.  Which is opposite of how the kavats and kubrows were handled model wise.

[CandyDragon]

My top five complaints about the Charger:

1. would have been okay with it had they used the juggernaut model. Looks more thematically grown than it is a cannibalized corpse that somehow came from a kubrow egg.
2. lazy rigging process of simply using the kubrow rigging with the Charger model, the in game chargers have a much more distinctive animation, and seeing this tiptoeing version of it is jarring.
3. Color mapping on the charger feels rushed, given the painted over look in for the other colors beyond the armor, its pretty clear that this was a quick pass and didn't receive much focus. 
4. The pet in general, the cyst has no explanation, no lore reasoning, given all the hoops because of "muh lore" we've had to jump through in the past... This just seems last minute due to it.
5. Same as 4, but there was no real story tying the Nidus or Charger to the game, we literally gambled for human prisoners and got told to go to a specialized node, with no backstory, to farm for drops. The end. Very anticlimactic for all the hype around the infested frame. 

[Delta-Epsilon_Limit]

6 minutes ago, Nariala said:

My top five complaints about the Charger:

1. would have been okay with it had they used the juggernaut model. Looks more thematically grown than it is a cannibalized corpse that somehow came from a kubrow egg.
2. lazy rigging process of simply using the kubrow rigging with the Charger model, the in game chargers have a much more distinctive animation, and seeing this tiptoeing version of it is jarring.
3. Color mapping on the charger feels rushed, given the painted over look in for the other colors beyond the armor, its pretty clear that this was a quick pass and didn't receive much focus. 
4. The pet in general, the cyst has no explanation, no lore reasoning, given all the hoops because of "muh lore" we've had to jump through in the past... This just seems last minute due to it.
5. Same as 4, but there was no real story tying the Nidus or Charger to the game, we literally gambled for human prisoners and got told to go to a specialized node, with no backstory, to farm for drops. The end. Very anticlimactic for all the hype around the infested frame. 

I think the rest of the lore will come soon enough (with Steve talking about that secret final stage). But I definitely agree with all the rest of your points.

[ReaverKane]

The whole Nidus release seems more of a cop-out to appease the hype than a proper release. Everything in it seems rushed:

- Nidus is SERIOUSLY overpowered, its a fun warframe, but it's simply too strong;

- The cyst spreading to warframes that didn't play Glast Gambit or completed Nidus is both a poorly thought mechanic, and a BIG SPOILER for people looking for why is there a purple thing on my freaking neck!?

- As far as i can tell there's an Alignment change linked to the cyst that isn't correlated with a proper choice since we can't choose or not to be infected.

- Not having yet completed my Nidus (still need to farm the parts) i can't really confirm this, but players seem to mention that allowing yourselves to get infected is a pure leap of faith, so we're pretty much allowing a creepy voice to simply inject something in us that we don't know what it does, and yet people went ahead with it?!

- The charger is stupid, how does a cyst made from what has to be mutated warframe "DNA" and Kubrow DNA (from the egg) give us what is essentially an amalgam of Grineer and Infested flesh?! The model is a obvious, lazy cop-out copy pasted from the Infested charger. The attachments don't work, colours barely work, and the skills aren't that novel.

What it looks like is DE having 2 problems: A new game-type that had a poor reception, and a warframe without a release quest. So they concocted a weird story to promote the new game type and put out the warframe as a reward, and then added some tie-ins to give the "infested" aspect some relevance since we only contact infested creatures on the whole quest for the infested frame on the very first quest. But those tie-ins were so appallingly rushed that the obvious result would be player backlash.

 

The longest playing player of my clan just told me he isn't going to play Warframe for a while... So thanks for the update.

[Mak_Gohae]

On 12/30/2016 at 9:03 PM, Rush95 said:

Community thoughts

YOUR thoughts

On 12/30/2016 at 9:03 PM, Rush95 said:

-A true 'infested Kubrow' model for the pet is preferred. While the Community has been asking for an infested dog for a while, it makes no sense lore-wise (it's an infested Grineer that was born out of a Kubrow egg?). Many of us would be delighted with a more suited model for the pet.

If you want a skin ask for one. I'm fine with a standard charger.

On 12/30/2016 at 9:03 PM, Rush95 said:

-Small nitpicking here, we know it was rushed, but the abillities are exactly the same as the ones from Huras and Sunika. Would it be possible to have a mod specifically designed for the Helminth Charger? Something that'd make us think ''Wow, that is truly an infested and disgusting pet''.

you should just ask for a new pet.

Cause you are essentially saying to change everything.

[Angrados]

5 hours ago, ReaverKane said:

The whole Nidus release seems more of a cop-out to appease the hype than a proper release. Everything in it seems rushed:

- Nidus is SERIOUSLY overpowered, its a fun warframe, but it's simply too strong;

- The cyst spreading to warframes that didn't play Glast Gambit or completed Nidus is both a poorly thought mechanic, and a BIG SPOILER for people looking for why is there a purple thing on my freaking neck!?

- As far as i can tell there's an Alignment change linked to the cyst that isn't correlated with a proper choice since we can't choose or not to be infected.

- Not having yet completed my Nidus (still need to farm the parts) i can't really confirm this, but players seem to mention that allowing yourselves to get infected is a pure leap of faith, so we're pretty much allowing a creepy voice to simply inject something in us that we don't know what it does, and yet people went ahead with it?!

- The charger is stupid, how does a cyst made from what has to be mutated warframe "DNA" and Kubrow DNA (from the egg) give us what is essentially an amalgam of Grineer and Infested flesh?! The model is a obvious, lazy cop-out copy pasted from the Infested charger. The attachments don't work, colours barely work, and the skills aren't that novel.

What it looks like is DE having 2 problems: A new game-type that had a poor reception, and a warframe without a release quest. So they concocted a weird story to promote the new game type and put out the warframe as a reward, and then added some tie-ins to give the "infested" aspect some relevance since we only contact infested creatures on the whole quest for the infested frame on the very first quest. But those tie-ins were so appallingly rushed that the obvious result would be player backlash.

 

The longest playing player of my clan just told me he isn't going to play Warframe for a while... So thanks for the update.

Nidus doesn't feel overpowered to play. It's not like he's overpowered when he starts out, you actually have to build up to the point where he kills everything. For that reason, he's not like Ash with his OHKO Bladestorm before his nerf or Ember with her WoF. Nidus may be strong, but he doesn't do CC, he doesn't do DPS, and frankly his healing is pretty passive with his 4. I don't even think he buffs people with any of his abilities atm. In that regard, I wouldn't classify him as overpowered, but by himself he is very strong. However, I wouldn't call that strength game-breakingly OP, though, if you know what I mean. 

I just caught my second cyst (on Nidus, ironically) today, so I can understand the frustration. There obviously is a plan for it, though, as it hasn't been removed as of yet. I'm interested to see where it goes--it might even have a tie in with the next cinematic quest, which would be neat.

There might be. I don't know much about that personally, since I went out of my way not to infect people to the point of not using my Nidus when he first had the cyst so I could grind other Warframes. With this second cyst I'll probably find out at one point or another, but this isn't the first time I've heard about it. Wouldn't surprise me.

If you really take issue with people doing stupid stuff (i.e., trusting creepy voices coming from operating chairs) then that's more of a problem with people than it is with the lore or Warframe. That was their choice to make and they dun goof'd it up. Also, since you haven't even played Nidus, how would you have any right to judge whether or not he's broken in terms of strength? Just because he looks impressive and deals out tons of damage doesn't mean that he's functionally viable--or broken--in high-level play. In normal play, yes, he's very strong, but all of the frames do that to a degree. You take an Ember anywhere and nothing within her ability range survives if she has WoF on. Nova CCs the snot out of basically everything and makes it explode within her ability's AoE. I just don't understand why we pick on the new one even though none of his abilities have anywhere near that kind of strength.

The charger is also being reworked, as confirmed by Steve. There's a very interesting thread explaining the lore reason behind the charger the way that it is (grineer bits and all) by ObviousLee that I recommend you check out, it's an interesting read.

[Skaleek]

I didnt think about this till just now, but shouldnt the chargers not need genetic stabilizers? I mean, the infested flesh should regenerate your pet on its own, right? Isn't infested flesh like ultra regenerative and durable? Credit sink be-gone?