Are rivens good for the game?

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

many people seem to like them but overall doesn't this impossible to obtain set of mods detract from collectors experience in the game (which there are many of) and circular progression is never a good thing worst of all is the already meta weapons becoming better. but on the other hand many like the increased power that is obtainable and it does promote more diverse weapon choices. what do you think?

[Zedasfogueiras]

I think they could be good if we could customize them even so I have my doubts, but I can tell you some rivens can make some weapons really shine, since I got a riven for my braton I am having a lot of fun with it, but It still weaker than a soma so I think rivens need a better balance at least

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the part about Rivens that was wrong was making them available for already Meta weapons, like The Simulor, Tonkor and Dread just to name a few. they were supposed to make less powerful weapons almost as viable as the top-tier stuff, but instead we got more power creep. they should have just been exclusive to weapons that are barely used and underpowered. to some degree, it's not even worth putting Rivens on Meta weapons as their Faint Disposition minimizes the benefits. all Rivens for the most powerful weapons do is make people go crazy for them in trade chat.

your Synoid Simulor will still kill things just as well without a Riven mod, there's no need to spend hundreds of plat for like a 50% damage increase. and just to prove I practice what I preach, I got rid of my Tonkor and Simulor Rivens that I were "lucky" to get. I only want Rivens for my favourite weapons, ones that I enjoy and need the extra boost.

[hellomynameismerk]

I think rivens broke this game theyre too op and ultimately consume the market place and just ruin other stuff. don't get me wrong they make otherwise unusable guns usuable but dread doesn't need a riven, tonkor doesn't need a riven like some stuff is just a hot knife through butter level 100 butter

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the part about Rivens that was wrong was making them available for already Meta weapons, like The Simulor, Tonkor and Dread just to name a few. they were supposed to make less powerful weapons almost as viable as the top-tier stuff, but instead we got more power creep. they should have just been exclusive to weapons that are barely used and underpowered. to some degree, it's not even worth putting Rivens on Meta weapons as their Faint Disposition minimizes the benefits. all Rivens for the most powerful weapons do is make people go crazy for them in trade chat.

your Synoid Simulor will still kill things just as well without a Riven mod, there's no need to spend hundreds of plat for like a 50% damage increase. and just to prove I practice what I preach, I got rid of my Tonkor and Simulor Rivens that I were "lucky" to get. I only want Rivens for my favourite weapons, ones that I enjoy and need the extra boost.

This is true. I have a friend that's been salivating over the prospect of a Soma Riven mod. I'm over here like, cool, I guess. It's too bad I don't really like many assault rifles. My favorite being the Ignis which has a faint distortion, which I don't think is fair. It's not a meta weapon, at least I don't think so. I definitely haven't seen it as much as say, tonkor, Simulor or Soma.

that being said I can't wait for shotgun and pistol rivens. I main the Hek, but I've always had a soft spot for the Sobek.

and my two favorite pistols are the embolist and the angstrum, both of which have strong dispositions. Can't wait.

[(PSN)zero1872001]

I use rivens for one thing. plat. Hell. I still dont even use the arcanes. lol.

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

I have personally bought Rivens for the Zhuge, Zarr, Gorgon, Vulkar, and Supra.  Good weapons that would have otherwise been Mastery Rank fodder.  Having the Rivens inspired me to spend lots of forma and playing time on these second tier weapons to make them end game capable.  Now can bring something besides Hek and Simulor to the hardest sorties.  I paid 170p for the Zarr and less than 100p for the others.  I sold a Panthera Riven as well for 25p, so even the crappy and obscure guns are getting love from someone.

Rivens are working as intended.  The only change I would like would be to make them much more common to keep the price gouging down on trade chat.

Edited January 2, 2017 by (XB1)ThermalStone

[-N7-Leonhart]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the part about Rivens that was wrong was making them available for already Meta weapons, like The Simulor, Tonkor and Dread just to name a few. they were supposed to make less powerful weapons almost as viable as the top-tier stuff, but instead we got more power creep. they should have just been exclusive to weapons that are barely used and underpowered. to some degree, it's not even worth putting Rivens on Meta weapons as their Faint Disposition minimizes the benefits. all Rivens for the most powerful weapons do is make people go crazy for them in trade chat.

your Synoid Simulor will still kill things just as well without a Riven mod, there's no need to spend hundreds of plat for like a 50% damage increase. and just to prove I practice what I preach, I got rid of my Tonkor and Simulor Rivens that I were "lucky" to get. I only want Rivens for my favourite weapons, ones that I enjoy and need the extra boost.

Can you define what is in the category "meta weapon"? Because for me the the concept is very murky at best. Therefore, the Devs concluded they cannot let any weapon out of this. However, they can see more clearly which weapons are more powerful, and which are less so, so they decided upon the Riven Disposition concept, which does brilliantly IMO.

Soma and co have very unimpressive Rivens, so much that even a standard mod provides more advantages most of the time. Right now, you can't say that any of the "meta" weapons got any meaningful boost from the Rivens.

12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DRG JupiterIvan said:

This is true. I have a friend that's been salivating over the prospect of a Soma Riven mod. I'm over here like, cool, I guess. It's too bad I don't really like many assault rifles. My favorite being the Ignis which has a faint distortion, which I don't think is fair. It's not a meta weapon, at least I don't think so. I definitely haven't seen it as much as say, tonkor, Simulor or Soma.

that being said I can't wait for shotgun and pistol rivens. I main the Hek, but I've always had a soft spot for the Sobek.

and my two favorite pistols are the embolist and the angstrum, both of which have strong dispositions. Can't wait.

There you go, can you see that? The concept of "meta" weapons is very cloudy, you can just exclude completely a weapon because of that. 

BTW, although Ignis is Faint, it's a higher value than the 0.5 of the Soma and Co.

Edited January 2, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[hellomynameismerk]

i just find it ridicules that argon scope for example is now out priced by a mod that anybody can get, reroll, and use (if mastery rank worthy) and how the weapons listed aren't bad at all and unless u plan to use those weapons on a survival for an hour they will do just fine in a mission

 

[DiosGX]

Step 1> Sell veiled rivens for 50 plat. 

Step 2> Repeat step 1 until 200 plat has been acquired

Step 3> Buy desired Riven for 200~ plat.

 

Any time rivens drop in a sortie, that's 4 different guns that are getting rivens added into circulation. There are more than enough being added, but if there's one you want, then you trade for it. Just like how if you want a certain prime, you sell off parts of other higher-priced things and buy the last 1 or 2 parts you need to build something.

 

I like just getting and earning everything myself, so this is hypocritical advice since I don't do this. I unveil all my rivens and find people who truly like those weapons and just give them away. I'm not an internet capitalist and don't care to be.

[-Raul-]

1 minute ago, hellomynameismerk said:

i just find it ridicules that argon scope for example is now out priced by a mod that anybody can get, reroll, and use (if mastery rank worthy) and how the weapons listed aren't bad at all and unless u plan to use those weapons on a survival for an hour they will do just fine in a mission

 

Remember that Argon scope is universal for primaries, with riven you need to get a specific one, also just 7 of mod capacity while rivens are 18.

[hellomynameismerk]

1 minute ago, -Raul- said:

Remember that Argon scope is universal for primaries, with riven you need to get a specific one, also just 7 of mod capacity while rivens are 18.

tell me if I'm wrong but argon scope sounds better in that situation rather than spending 150+ platinum on a mod that will only be useful for higher level missions because it can already kill that lower levels in that case, and because argon scope is universal not just for 1 weapon

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

2 minutes ago, hellomynameismerk said:

i just find it ridicules that argon scope for example is now out priced by a mod that anybody can get, reroll, and use (if mastery rank worthy) and how the weapons listed aren't bad at all and unless u plan to use those weapons on a survival for an hour they will do just fine in a mission

 

To be fair people aren't pricing in the value of the mod. They're preying on the impatient and unlucky. I've gotten rivens for "cheap". My friend wanted an Attika Riven so he went to trade chat. 200 plat. I got one for him for 50. It's just people being greedy and people not realizing that these rivens, while great, are somewhat easily obtainable, if you're devoted enough.

ive bought ALL of my rivens for under 100 plat and 50 or over. So that's what I believe they're worth. Sure certain rivens with god rolls can go for a lot, but unrolled or even veiled rivens should go for cheap.

[achromos]

as long as they keep rivens to weapons and sentinels or other companions, yes.  It aids the devs in maintaining the balance between all the weapons we have available, if you get a good riven anyway.

 

I feel like if they were to add rivens to the warframes however it would take away a huge reason for the devs to give each frame individual TLC when their turn comes up.

[NativeKiller]

1) Buy reroll-fodder Riven mod for ~100p.

 

2) Farm your brains out with Kuva missions and reroll the reroll-fodder until you get good rolls.

 

3) Sell rerolled Riven mod for something like 1500p.

 

4) ???

 

5) Profit!!!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

...Gotta admit that Riven mods introduce ridiculous levels of power creep.

 

It doesn't seem that healthy for the game.

Edited January 2, 2017 by NativeKiller

[Azrael]

51 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HenCeption said:

doesn't this impossible to obtain set of mods detract from collectors experience in the game

This sentence doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They aren't impossible to obtain, and their rarity makes the "collectors experience" better, not worse. I really enjoying building my collection of them, it gives me something to work for. I mainly collect them for weapons that aren't already op, so they breathe new life into weapons that I've always wished would get a buff. I also find myself making duplicates of weapons now, something that I didn't have any reason to do before. Honestly, I'm having loads of fun.

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

Just now, Azrael said:

This sentence doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They aren't impossible to obtain, and their rarity makes the "collectors experience" better, not worse. I really enjoying building my collection of them, it gives me something to work for. I mainly collect them for weapons that aren't already op, so they breathe new life into weapons that I've always wished would get a buff. I also find myself making duplicates of weapons now, something that I didn't have any reason to do before. Honestly, I'm having loads of fun.

 

my wording was a bit weird, my main point is previously with the exclusion of founders items you could go and obtain every item in the game if you played long enough and many people enjoyed that but now with rivens that is impossible, not to say that is a bad or good thing since many weapons can be personalized to a greater extent like you said. sorry for the confusion.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, (Xbox One)HenCeption said:

my wording was a bit weird, my main point is previously with the exclusion of founders items you could go and obtain every item in the game if you played long enough and many people enjoyed that but now with rivens that is impossible, not to say that is a bad or good thing since many weapons can be personalized to a greater extent like you said. sorry for the confusion.

Do you mean because of the limit on the number of them you can have? That's true I suppose, but these things are really fun to collect. I'm a collector and they definitely make things better for me and not worse. They are one of the main reasons I'm still playing.

[Insizer]

The fact that Rivens provided some content that can give players something to chew on is good.

In terms of balancing and such they are a terrible mistake which didn't even miss the mark, but completely avoided it. It didn't fix anything, but made the "arms race" more narrow rather than wide. Before, you had good guns outclassing bad guns. Now you have good guns outclassing the same guns simply on the basis of a mod with a less than 1/12k chance of getting per gun. It didn't address anything, it couldn't even try to. Many sub-par guns, even with the best Rivens, remain sub-par because their stats or mechanics are just that bad, and that's not taking into account how difficult it is to get a Riven that isn't garbage, useless, or worse.

The only thing that could even attempted to make difference in this "unused guns" issue was the scraped together 'Riven Disposition rating' hotfix which doesn't actually address why some guns were unused, but only reins in the abomination that the devs let loose.

And yet the devs decided to roll out this half-baked system (full of completely obvious and real issues) for all guns, making it even harder to get a decent riven for a decent gun. The only thing I have to say now is "where is Quality Control?" 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Insizer
grammar

[YouHaveShamedYoFamory]

I dont think they are good for the game. they seem to OP. what we needed was more actual content. not mods.

[CY13ERPUNK]

rivens basically just bring even more power creep into a game that already had power creep problems

they are not well enough balanced to do what the original intention was to do, ie make older/weaker pre-PC weapons on par with the newer post-PC weapons, since they dont fundamentally change anything except raw stats, so things like the tonkor/simulor are still going to shine becuz they do stupid AoE dmg while having zero friendly fire worries

and even tho the rivens are slightly adjusted to be a bit better for the older weapons and a bit weaker on the newer/OP/meta weapons, its just not enough

nevermind the fact that there was ZERO need to bring rivens into the game at all... all existing content can be destroyed with the current tools we have at our disposal, thus rivens just introduce more unnecessary power creep AND they bring it BEFORE we have the much needed upcoming hopefully huge dmg v3.0 overhaul to remove the core base dmg mods and integrate the +5% dmg per rank, but since the rivens already add more base dmg as a potential stat, now ppl will still just want to reroll rivens to get the best in slot mod possible for XXX dmg numbers...

its basically a half step forwards and 6 steps back, but clearly DE introduced rivens into the game becuz a vast majority of ppl cannot resist the power-creep and it will sell slots/plat and the grind/rerolling will keep ppl playing, thus keep them ingame, thus more opportunities to buy/sell ... =/

i dont hate on DE trying to make a $, this is a business after all, but i just wish i they could make more decisions with a positive customer interaction and more progressive game design instead of this manipulative/negative kind of BS =/

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

3 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

rivens basically just bring even more power creep into a game that already had power creep problems

they are not well enough balanced to do what the original intention was to do, ie make older/weaker pre-PC weapons on par with the newer post-PC weapons, since they dont fundamentally change anything except raw stats, so things like the tonkor/simulor are still going to shine becuz they do stupid AoE dmg while having zero friendly fire worries

and even tho the rivens are slightly adjusted to be a bit better for the older weapons and a bit weaker on the newer/OP/meta weapons, its just not enough

nevermind the fact that there was ZERO need to bring rivens into the game at all... all existing content can be destroyed with the current tools we have at our disposal, thus rivens just introduce more unnecessary power creep AND they bring it BEFORE we have the much needed upcoming hopefully huge dmg v3.0 overhaul to remove the core base dmg mods and integrate the +5% dmg per rank, but since the rivens already add more base dmg as a potential stat, now ppl will still just want to reroll rivens to get the best in slot mod possible for XXX dmg numbers...

its basically a half step forwards and 6 steps back, but clearly DE introduced rivens into the game becuz a vast majority of ppl cannot resist the power-creep and it will sell slots/plat and the grind/rerolling will keep ppl playing, thus keep them ingame, thus more opportunities to buy/sell ... =/

i dont hate on DE trying to make a $, this is a business after all, but i just wish i they could make more decisions with a positive customer interaction and more progressive game design instead of this manipulative/negative kind of BS =/

 

You have a very good point with the power creep. what I want to see more of is unique weapons that don't just matter because of the damage they can put out but instead have unique features so that down the line when they don't do as much damage comparatively they are still relevant because of the special features and they seem to be doing this with the cernos prime (even if it's not good it is unique) syndicate melee, hema and the hirudo. these might mean more work to make but they would reduce reworks and the necessity to implement systems like riven  (even if riven is good for the game).

[Insizer]

2 minutes ago, CY13ERPUNK said:

rivens basically just bring even more power creep into a game that already had power creep problems

they are not well enough balanced to do what the original intention was to do, ie make older/weaker pre-PC weapons on par with the newer post-PC weapons, since they dont fundamentally change anything except raw stats, so things like the tonkor/simulor are still going to shine becuz they do stupid AoE dmg while having zero friendly fire worries

and even tho the rivens are slightly adjusted to be a bit better for the older weapons and a bit weaker on the newer/OP/meta weapons, its just not enough

nevermind the fact that there was ZERO need to bring rivens into the game at all... all existing content can be destroyed with the current tools we have at our disposal, thus rivens just introduce more unnecessary power creep AND they bring it BEFORE we have the much needed upcoming hopefully huge dmg v3.0 overhaul to remove the core base dmg mods and integrate the +5% dmg per rank, but since the rivens already add more base dmg as a potential stat, now ppl will still just want to reroll rivens to get the best in slot mod possible for XXX dmg numbers...

its basically a half step forwards and 6 steps back, but clearly DE introduced rivens into the game becuz a vast majority of ppl cannot resist the power-creep and it will sell slots/plat and the grind/rerolling will keep ppl playing, thus keep them ingame, thus more opportunities to buy/sell ... =/

i dont hate on DE trying to make a $, this is a business after all, but i just wish i they could make more decisions with a positive customer interaction and more progressive game design instead of this manipulative/negative kind of BS =/

I just wish that someone had given more than 2 minutes of thought on this Riven system before they proceeded from the concept generation phase. As you said, the system almost uniquely does not address the issue they set out to fix, and it never would have. Hilariously, it made the problem even worse. Now you have guns outclassing the same gun on the basis of a mod that is all but impossible to replicate. To make it even worse, they expanded this cancer into shotguns and secondaries, not only 'infecting' them, but worsening the situation by diluting the impossible tables even further.

The fact that Riven Dispositions came out after Rivens were introduced says to me that no one thought that making powerful weapons even more powerful wouldn't fix the unused guns issue. I've been pretty tolerant of the devs actions for a long time. Some things work, some things don't, and you can't predict everything that will go wrong. Some things that are good for the game, the community might not like. But I've been caught speechless how it seems that no one saw these obvious consequences ahead of time.

And now we're stuck with this disaster.

 

[NoelleAllogene]

Riven mods. Sounds nice in concept. Bad in field application. Even with disposition thingy, I've seen meta weapon riven mods cost more than primed mods and legendary core combined.

Edited January 2, 2017 by dataman88

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)HenCeption said:

many people seem to like them but overall doesn't this impossible to obtain set of mods detract from collectors experience in the game (which there are many of) and circular progression is never a good thing worst of all is the already meta weapons becoming better. but on the other hand many like the increased power that is obtainable and it does promote more diverse weapon choices. what do you think?

It's generating interest in older weapons and generating revenue.

I still believe weaker weapons need even more of a disposition boost.

I also believe a sister system - weapon specialization - should be introduced where Rivens don't work...choice, 2 systems that generate revenue and make players happy.