HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[2ply]

2 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

And we will continue working towards getting an improvement on the excessive Hema costs.

When you have nothing left but ad-hominems, you really should give up rather than make a fool of yourself.

I don't think so, you've only pointed out the ad-hominems in my response, my point was laced with them and I'll give you that, this whole outcry over the hema cost is DEAD, and anyone still complaining about it needs to learn to deal with it and move on.

The argument in my response is completely valid, but you can't seem to refute that with any logical substance. Rather than just hide behind your grasp of adjective usage, perhaps you can produce something of merit, to explain how those of you, who are so distraught about having to farm in a game based on farming, is not simply an absurdity.

 

[toafarmer]

10 minutes ago, 2ply said:

anyone still complaining about it needs to learn to deal with it and move on.

 

My way to deal with it was stop spending money on the game. Didn't change the Hema cost, but I saved a lot of cash skipping 5 times the 75% off and also the last prime access.

[CBAROG]

34 minutes ago, 2ply said:

The argument in my response is completely valid, but you can't seem to refute that with any logical substance. Rather than just hide behind your grasp of adjective usage, perhaps you can produce something of merit, to explain how those of you, who are so distraught about having to farm in a game based on farming, is not simply an absurdity.

 

What argument? That Hema is as valuable as a gold skin? It's nothing like that. Hema is a pretty mediocre weapon for it's cost. It's one thing when you have to farm for weapons, but Hema requires more effort than the whole Bio lab required before it. Maybe more than Bio and Corpus labs combined. So no, you don't have any arguments that "produce something of merit". Like at all.

[ChuckMaverick]

29 minutes ago, 2ply said:

I don't think so, you've only pointed out the ad-hominems in my response, my point was laced with them and I'll give you that, this whole outcry over the hema cost is DEAD, and anyone still complaining about it needs to learn to deal with it and move on.

The argument in my response is completely valid, but you can't seem to refute that with any logical substance. Rather than just hide behind your grasp of adjective usage, perhaps you can produce something of merit, to explain how those of you, who are so distraught about having to farm in a game based on farming, is not simply an absurdity.

With 2017 being the year of clans and big changes on the way including clan ranking and affinity, the Hema costs and the response to them are an important sign to DE of what not to do, and shouldn't be forgotten. For now this thread is as good a reminder as any.

DE seem to have taken this on board, the swift reduction in the participation target for the last clan event was a good sign and very welcome, but constant vigilance at this stage is a sensible precaution.

Clan research would benefit from a complete overhaul; costs before the Hema were largely trivial, the Hema costs were too high, re-balancing them all would be a better way forward.

I'm not distraught at having to farm, I completed the Hema research back when my clan was still a solo clan, some time ago now, starting from less than 500 mutagen samples in my inventory.

I've played some Minecraft with my nephews, although I've not built a giant phallus, so I can't speak to how much effort would be involved in that.

'Work' is a confusing, ambiguous word when applied to games. Tasks requiring effort are obviously not inherently bad, it depends on how much fun you're having while doing them.

Above all, my main objection to the Hema costs are the way they disproportionately affect different players, and clan research in general isn't a good mechanism to achieve DE's stated goal of requiring contemporaneous effort to acquire the weapon while providing a real choice between buying it with plat or 'earning' it in game.

DE can do better, and I want them to, for the sake of the future of a game I love.

[2ply]

4 hours ago, CBAROG said:

What argument? That Hema is as valuable as a gold skin? It's nothing like that. Hema is a pretty mediocre weapon for it's cost. It's one thing when you have to farm for weapons, but Hema requires more effort than the whole Bio lab required before it. Maybe more than Bio and Corpus labs combined. So no, you don't have any arguments that "produce something of merit". Like at all.

You missed the point. It has nothing to do with the actual rewards other games provide.

Let me frame it differently.

Problem: Clan Tech items are in general extremely easy to start research on.

Case in Point: The Ferrox, just released a few days ago. I'm in a Mountain Clan. There are 300 people that could (should) be responsible for contributing to this research. Yet, as soon as the Ferrox was released within minutes of deployment, before 98% of the clan could even log into the game and donate anything, it was already researching. This required 1 maybe 2 people to drop resources into the tech lab to complete it's requirements.

This left the other 298 people in the clan with NOTHING to contribute, nothing required to help. You might think this is great, so easy right? It's so easy it's pathetic. This creates the mentality that we have here in this thread.

Now, what is the problem you may think, I'm sure the vast majority of you are still confused. Let's go deeper. 

The Hema research, 150,000 Mutagen Samples (for our clan)....this wasn't done in minutes, it wasn't done overnight, it took a few weeks and it even required the clan to talk to each other! We had to form squads, create farming builds, we even had to use HYDROID!!!! That's blasphemy! People in a clan, talking to each other and having to form squads to produce the required resources to start research on a weapon and even use one of the least used Warframes to do it?...how could this be DE? When everything in the past was so easy...most people never having to donate anything, they could just let the veterans do it all for them instead.

Now lets look at the big picture.

Anyone who plays Warframe can start a clan, but does this mean that everyone who starts a clan can actually do a good job and ensure their clan is healthy?

There are far too many clans in this game, many of them are empty, mostly dead or very inactive. Do you want to join a clan that is dead, mostly inactive, or empty?

It's never really been a problem until the HEMA came around.

The real problem in my opinion is that DE allowed for the HEMA to be purchased with platinum on the market.

I support the resource cost of the HEMA to research, but I strongly disagree with DE placing it on the market for purchase with platinum and hope DE stops putting clan tech items on the market completely.

Consider this, when you look at the forums, most clans like to promote and advertise "100% Dojo research completed"

As a matter of fact, so many clans can use that sales pitch to market their clan, it no longer holds weight, it's a moot point.

Recently I've seen clans that used to say "100% Dojo research complete" adding "Hema almost done" next to it.

Think about it....

If DE continues to produce Clan tech items with LARGE resource costs to research like the HEMA, it will actually improve the player experience overall.

Here are a few points to validate that:

1.) Smaller, dead clans will evaporate, those "Warlords" who aren't active, don't put in the effort and make their clan's something great for the members will retreat.

2.) "100% Dojo reseach complete" will actually be a thing of merit...an actual marketable pitch again. Players will want to join these clans because they spell "success"

3.) The healthier clans, those with Warlords and upper management and members who contribute, communicate and work together are HAPPIER clans. And setting the bar on clan tech items promotes communication, clan wide contribution and clan members working together.

4.) Those crappy clans that have poor leadership will be phased over time due to supply and demand driven by clan tech.

5.) The EX-members of clans with poor leadership who failed, will gravitate towards the clans that are actually functional and healthy with sustained numbers.

6.) The "burden" of farming for higher cost research items such as the HEMA will not be an issue, the "burden" should be shared among the members of those healthy clans. And people will form social bonds through the experiences they share working together.

7.) These resource farms will require less time per individual, producing enriching experiences for clan members of all levels instead of dread. Facilitating a time and place to socialize and work together. This creates systemic unity and will have positive effects in other areas. 

8.) Consider the Future content, with the additions of the future CLAN focused content to come, we need to become better organized and concentrated as clans, these increased costs will do that, through the necessity to learn effective methods of teamwork.

In the past, everything was so easily acquired, excessive farming was for individual wants and needs, but Clans were created to produce a community of players working together to achieve greater things that could not be accomplished alone, while providing an atmosphere of support and community.

When a Mountain Clan's  dojo tech research can be completed by 1 or 2 members of the (should be) 300 members, this system needs a rework.

The problem is, we have too many scarcely populated clans of all sizes and we have become complacent with everything being easily obtainable in the clan tech supply of those clans.

The research costs of all clan tech items aside from the HEMA has been comparatively too low for the intended number of members per capita in each clan tier. 

Those of you who are upset, are in shock due to what is the reality of what Clan tech research cost should actually be. These items aren't gold trophies but they should be something Clans are proud of, they should be marketable to the community in order to garner and sustain membership into the clans that have earned them. 

From the player perspective, when you join a clan, when you donate your time and your effort into building up your Warlord's clan, do you not hope and expect the founder, and upper management of those clans to protect YOUR investment?

Wouldn't you feel better knowing that your time is not squandered? Wouldn't it be horrible to know all your work has been done in vain, building up the selfish desires of an ineffective and neglectful Warlord who will eventually drive your investments into the ground?

You should be selective in your choice of Clan, and you shouldn't accept anything less than a clan with proven dedication to prosperity and achievement through serious involvement in the community you are a part of.

Let the research cost go up and stay, and watch the ineffective and neglectful Warlord's clans fall. Let the resource costs clear the weeds who have been choking the bloom of greater clans in this garden.

Let the community gravitate towards a clear path to sound investments of their own in those clans that can withstand the test of time and endurance of which can only be attained through truly good leadership and positive direction.

Additionally, a point to note, with the NEW clan content that is to come, there has been clear mention that Clans will be Graded based on clan tech accomplishments. This is a scoring system that one can only assume will be used as a marketing point to show the community what your clan is worth in terms of quality.

DE Steve said in a recent devstream that clans will be RANKED depending on their accomplishments, including but not limited to clan tech research completed.

This means that it would be in the best interest of all clans and their members to actually have higher resource costs on clan tech research. This way Clans can be fairly and clearly Ranked in order to stand out among the clans that aren't in the same league regardless of clan size but rather in accomplishment through quality.

We need a clear defining line between the good, bad and ugly Clans, with so many clans to choose from. My hope is that we obtain that through this ranking system.

However, with these current pathetically low costs for clan tech research, this grading system cannot work based on this metric, so why not make the pitch "100% Dojo research completed" actually mean something for once.

If we set the bar higher to obtain these clan tech items, the quality of clans must improve to reach it and those clans of quality will emerge while those clans that will ultimately be a waste of your time will sink. This I feel is the true intent of the increased cost of the HEMA research and hopefully it will be a trend we see become standard practice, for the betterment of the game at large.

....unless DE just wanted a cash grab from the market with the HEMA, and if that was the case, and these clan tech items of absorbent resource cost to research continue to be deployed along side a platinum buy-out option through the market...we're screwed.

So if you really feel like protesting anything, protest the fact the HEMA was made available for platinum, and that alone.

Edited March 15, 2017 by 2ply

[2ply]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

With 2017 being the year of clans and big changes on the way including clan ranking and affinity, the Hema costs and the response to them are an important sign to DE of what not to do, and shouldn't be forgotten. For now this thread is as good a reminder as any.

<snip>

DE can do better, and I want them to, for the sake of the future of a game I love.

Well said man, I appreciate the response.

[TenGaugeBoson]

I am never going to build this weapon....Getting bored with the game too.

But I gave DE a couple hundred dollars over the years on ps4 and PC and had fun so....

Might stick around for bard frame  who knows

[CBAROG]

3 hours ago, 2ply said:

You should be selective in your choice of Clan, and you shouldn't accept anything less than a clan with proven dedication to prosperity and achievement through serious involvement in the community you are a part of.

Let the research cost go up and stay, and watch the ineffective and neglectful Warlord's clans fall. Let the resource costs clear the weeds who have been choking the bloom of greater clans in this garden.

Let the community gravitate towards a clear path to sound investments of their own in those clans that can withstand the test of time and endurance of which can only be attained through truly good leadership and positive direction.

No. And no. You see,  I'd understand if such price was for something big. Like a giant observatory. Or the greatest greater grand hall. Because this amount of effort for ONE weapon is absolutely ridiculous.

Also, not every clan has to be what you described. We can have laid-back clans with people who play for fun, not because of their duty for the warlords. 

And yes, having Hema on the market is disgusting and proves that it is first and foremost a cash grab. And all this talk about making clans more united and important is only an afterthought to make it go down our throats easier.

Well, you do make a fair point and I do agree that research requirements are a bit too small and that clan system needs its own 2.0 but you make these points defending a cash grab so no.  This Hema situation is total BS. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by CBAROG

[EvilChaosKnight]

As I said before, I have a work IRL. I don't need another boring chore in my life, thank you. 

That said, most of other games which require you to "work" either still value your time by setting up reasonable goals or make the process at least somewhat fun. Or both. Warframe does neither and seems to have 0 intentions to.

[Helljack84]

Such a lengthy text...lacking any content.

So snowflake loves mindnumbing grind and elitism. Doesn't have anything to contribute but rudeness.

Since there's nothing for you to gain from this I'll just assume you're bored now. Why don't you grind another 5 million more nanospores and crawl back under your rock?

 

 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 hours ago, 2ply said:

You missed the point. It has nothing to do with the actual rewards other games provide.

Let me frame it differently.

Problem: Clan Tech items are in general extremely easy to start research on.

Case in Point: The Ferrox, just released a few days ago. I'm in a Mountain Clan. There are 300 people that could (should) be responsible for contributing to this research. Yet, as soon as the Ferrox was released within minutes of deployment, before 98% of the clan could even log into the game and donate anything, it was already researching. This required 1 maybe 2 people to drop resources into the tech lab to complete it's requirements.

This left the other 298 people in the clan with NOTHING to contribute, nothing required to help. You might think this is great, so easy right? It's so easy it's pathetic. This creates the mentality that we have here in this thread.

Now, what is the problem you may think, I'm sure the vast majority of you are still confused. Let's go deeper. 

The Hema research, 150,000 Mutagen Samples (for our clan)....this wasn't done in minutes, it wasn't done overnight, it took a few weeks and it even required the clan to talk to each other! We had to form squads, create farming builds, we even had to use HYDROID!!!! That's blasphemy! People in a clan, talking to each other and having to form squads to produce the required resources to start research on a weapon and even use one of the least used Warframes to do it?...how could this be DE? When everything in the past was so easy...most people never having to donate anything, they could just let the veterans do it all for them instead.

Now lets look at the big picture.

Anyone who plays Warframe can start a clan, but does this mean that everyone who starts a clan can actually do a good job and ensure their clan is healthy?

There are far too many clans in this game, many of them are empty, mostly dead or very inactive. Do you want to join a clan that is dead, mostly inactive, or empty?

It's never really been a problem until the HEMA came around.

The real problem in my opinion is that DE allowed for the HEMA to be purchased with platinum on the market.

I support the resource cost of the HEMA to research, but I strongly disagree with DE placing it on the market for purchase with platinum and hope DE stops putting clan tech items on the market completely.

Consider this, when you look at the forums, most clans like to promote and advertise "100% Dojo research completed"

As a matter of fact, so many clans can use that sales pitch to market their clan, it no longer holds weight, it's a moot point.

Recently I've seen clans that used to say "100% Dojo research complete" adding "Hema almost done" next to it.

Think about it....

If DE continues to produce Clan tech items with LARGE resource costs to research like the HEMA, it will actually improve the player experience overall.

Here are a few points to validate that:

1.) Smaller, dead clans will evaporate, those "Warlords" who aren't active, don't put in the effort and make their clan's something great for the members will retreat.

2.) "100% Dojo reseach complete" will actually be a thing of merit...an actual marketable pitch again. Players will want to join these clans because they spell "success"

3.) The healthier clans, those with Warlords and upper management and members who contribute, communicate and work together are HAPPIER clans. And setting the bar on clan tech items promotes communication, clan wide contribution and clan members working together.

4.) Those crappy clans that have poor leadership will be phased over time due to supply and demand driven by clan tech.

5.) The EX-members of clans with poor leadership who failed, will gravitate towards the clans that are actually functional and healthy with sustained numbers.

6.) The "burden" of farming for higher cost research items such as the HEMA will not be an issue, the "burden" should be shared among the members of those healthy clans. And people will form social bonds through the experiences they share working together.

7.) These resource farms will require less time per individual, producing enriching experiences for clan members of all levels instead of dread. Facilitating a time and place to socialize and work together. This creates systemic unity and will have positive effects in other areas. 

8.) Consider the Future content, with the additions of the future CLAN focused content to come, we need to become better organized and concentrated as clans, these increased costs will do that, through the necessity to learn effective methods of teamwork.

In the past, everything was so easily acquired, excessive farming was for individual wants and needs, but Clans were created to produce a community of players working together to achieve greater things that could not be accomplished alone, while providing an atmosphere of support and community.

When a Mountain Clan's  dojo tech research can be completed by 1 or 2 members of the (should be) 300 members, this system needs a rework.

The problem is, we have too many scarcely populated clans of all sizes and we have become complacent with everything being easily obtainable in the clan tech supply of those clans.

The research costs of all clan tech items aside from the HEMA has been comparatively too low for the intended number of members per capita in each clan tier. 

Those of you who are upset, are in shock due to what is the reality of what Clan tech research cost should actually be. These items aren't gold trophies but they should be something Clans are proud of, they should be marketable to the community in order to garner and sustain membership into the clans that have earned them. 

From the player perspective, when you join a clan, when you donate your time and your effort into building up your Warlord's clan, do you not hope and expect the founder, and upper management of those clans to protect YOUR investment?

Wouldn't you feel better knowing that your time is not squandered? Wouldn't it be horrible to know all your work has been done in vain, building up the selfish desires of an ineffective and neglectful Warlord who will eventually drive your investments into the ground?

You should be selective in your choice of Clan, and you shouldn't accept anything less than a clan with proven dedication to prosperity and achievement through serious involvement in the community you are a part of.

Let the research cost go up and stay, and watch the ineffective and neglectful Warlord's clans fall. Let the resource costs clear the weeds who have been choking the bloom of greater clans in this garden.

Let the community gravitate towards a clear path to sound investments of their own in those clans that can withstand the test of time and endurance of which can only be attained through truly good leadership and positive direction.

Additionally, a point to note, with the NEW clan content that is to come, there has been clear mention that Clans will be Graded based on clan tech accomplishments. This is a scoring system that one can only assume will be used as a marketing point to show the community what your clan is worth in terms of quality.

DE Steve said in a recent devstream that clans will be RANKED depending on their accomplishments, including but not limited to clan tech research completed.

This means that it would be in the best interest of all clans and their members to actually have higher resource costs on clan tech research. This way Clans can be fairly and clearly Ranked in order to stand out among the clans that aren't in the same league regardless of clan size but rather in accomplishment through quality.

We need a clear defining line between the good, bad and ugly Clans, with so many clans to choose from. My hope is that we obtain that through this ranking system.

However, with these current pathetically low costs for clan tech research, this grading system cannot work based on this metric, so why not make the pitch "100% Dojo research completed" actually mean something for once.

If we set the bar higher to obtain these clan tech items, the quality of clans must improve to reach it and those clans of quality will emerge while those clans that will ultimately be a waste of your time will sink. This I feel is the true intent of the increased cost of the HEMA research and hopefully it will be a trend we see become standard practice, for the betterment of the game at large.

....unless DE just wanted a cash grab from the market with the HEMA, and if that was the case, and these clan tech items of absorbent resource cost to research continue to be deployed along side a platinum buy-out option through the market...we're screwed.

So if you really feel like protesting anything, protest the fact the HEMA was made available for platinum, and that alone.

I have to say, a decent read if you do so with an open mind.

I'm seeing many of the things you mention happening in my clan this very moment.  One way or another, my clan will change.

I have two topics I'd like to get everyone's feedback on:

1.  "Where do I fit in?"

The "Hema Era", aka the crossroads conundrum.

I'm a paying, casual, consistent MR 22 player who has stayed just ahead of the curve.  I remember getting the last of the needed Prime Parts for Frost and Ember before the "Vault Era" commenced.

I log in daily and have run everything except Raids consistently.  Why?  Because having a career and family and responsibilities, the very things that give me a means to afford financial support for DE's Warframe, make it hard to guarantee an uninterrupted Timesink where teamwork is essential, start to finish.  And believe me, I want that content.

I may log in for 5 minutes one day and 25-45 the next, but at any moment I might need to go.

Enter the Hema.

On the surface, I'm a good clannie, and I like being a valued member.  I log almost every day.  I commit resources here and there.

But the Hema is different.  I've run the Meta mutagen ODD as Nova Prime a time or two and contributed, but I'm comparatively much closer to an absent member than the dedicated 2-3% grinding away at the Tens of Thousands of mutagen still needed for my clan to get the Hema.

DE's Timesink Saturation strategy certainly is working.  I don't have time to do it all, so if I WANT it all, I'll play for fun and have to pay for the rest.

 I'm playing how I like to play to do things like obtain Banshee Prime and her gear and Aklex Prime and the occasional Riven.  Contributions are a byproduct of consistency rather than a META goal-focused playstyle.

Casual, consistent players aren't baseball players who get paid daily to do what we love...we are baseball FANS who PAY, either with time or money or both, to play this game we love.

Which begs the question...

"Where do casual, dedicated fans of Warframe fit in with coming clan changes?"

And leads to...

___________________________

#2.  "How does DE properly reward large clans with exclusives that won't leave smaller clans feeling resentful?"

With it being so much harder to satisfy resource requirements and the like, larger clans DESERVE exclusive perks.

I get why DE does it, but success as a large clan deserves to be rewarded.

On the other hand, I can see how smaller clans might resent it, because the increased costs address a system flaw in the way that large clans [would otherwise] negatively impact real-world revenue.  And DE would be providing exclusives for a portion of the player base based on a flaw.

I want this new clan system to succeed for players and DE alike.

But, if large clans continue to represent a financial liability (Server load dead weight $$$, player retention loss due to bad experiences, etc) then larger clans simply need to go, IMHO.

Thoughts are appreciated.

Fin

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[ChuckMaverick]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

On the other hand, I can see how smaller clans might resent it, because the increased costs address a system flaw in the way that large clans negatively impact real-world revenue.  And DE would be providing exclusives for a portion of the player base based on a flaw.

I want this new clan system to succeed for players and DE alike.

But, if large clans continue to represent a financial liability (Server load dead weight $$$, player retention loss due to bad experiences, etc) then larger clans simply need to go, IMHO.

Thoughts are appreciated.

I'm not sure why you feel that large clans negatively impact DE's revenue.

Server costs would actually be higher per player for small clans rather than large ones, and the social bonds that clans facilitate are a big positive for player retention.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

13 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I'm not sure why you feel that large clans negatively impact DE's revenue.

Server costs would actually be higher per player for small clans rather than large ones, and the social bonds that clans facilitate are a big positive for player retention.

They won't going forward because their resource costs are now being inflated to counteract easy content grabs by players not really interested in being clan contributors in multiple ways.

What you say rings true for active clan members.  If 30 members out of 300 are like that...

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

snip

well, my personal take on the whole "making clans great" thing is the following:

i certainly don't mind giving dedicated clans something to strife for. all i'm asking for is: don't cross the line affecting single player game progress. meaning: leaving solo / casual pug players in the dust gear / "essential" content wise is not cool imo. that's a big part of the playerbase and alienating it now after years in which both was handled seperately is not a wise decision imo. dark sectors for example provided clans with an additional credit and resource income, a bonus, but nothing exclusive. but if it wasn't for the almost universal outcry on the forums in the last event for the first time it would have been a distinct possibility to miss out on a wraith weapon as a casual / solo clan player. this tendency is worrisome and the hema is another symptom of it (disregarding the cash grab aspect).

my plea would be: award dedicated clan business with clan relevant stuff like i dunno, fashion frame stuffs sporting your clan logo, free dojo rooms, prestige via leaderboards, you name it. anything that doesn't make me feel forced into clan business just to stay on top MR wise (or forced to grind a single tileset for an insane amount of time, to get back to the topic)...

Edited March 15, 2017 by Kotsender_Quasimir

[CandyDragon]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

larger clans DESERVE exclusive perks.

Elaborate?

What part of being in a big clan suddenly entitles you to more exactly?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

10 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Elaborate?

What part of being in a big clan suddenly entitles you to more exactly?

Successfully running a clan of 300 is harder than running a clan of 10.  Big Business 101.

Resource costs are one aspect but there are more.

I'm sure Metrics on Hema completion for Storm/Mountain clans vs Moon Clans bear this out.

 It doesn't "entitle" anything, per se, but it needs to be worth it, otherwise why bother?

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[CandyDragon]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Successfully running a clan of 300 is harder than running a clan of 10.  Big Business 101.

Resource costs are one aspect but there are more.

 It doesn't "entitle" anything, per se, but it needs to be worth it, otherwise why bother?

Resource costs are irrelevant in larger clans, if your clan cannot meet the requirements you have too many inactives/dead weight and should consider downgrading.

Which leaves you with the "we have more members and should be rewarded" part of this. 

 

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

but it needs to be worth it, otherwise why bother?

to be fair: being in an active clan as opposed to solo is already an advantage on its own for obvious reasons.

but yeah why moon if you can storm... i don't know. i guess some people enjoy being part of something BIG.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

58 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Resource costs are irrelevant in larger clans, if your clan cannot meet the requirements you have too many inactives/dead weight and should consider downgrading.

Which leaves you with the "we have more members and should be rewarded" part of this. 

 

^ ummm...yes, you are proving my point.

Just having more members, no.

But a clan of 300 with a high % of actives takes a lot more effort.

Again, Business 101...

So yes, I do believe there should be exclusive perks if you manage to successfully do it.

Nothing affecting gameplay directly, because that is strictly VERBOTEN and pitchforks and torches would come out...

Edited March 15, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73

[CandyDragon]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

^ ummm...yes, you are proving my point.

Just having more members, no.

But a clan of 300 with a high % of actives takes a lot more effort.

Again, Business 101...

So yes, I do believe there should be exclusive perks if you manage to successfully do it.

So, by something being easier, and merely a popularity contest in the end, you deserve more rewards. Got it. 

[ChuckMaverick]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

But a clan of 300 with a high % of actives takes a lot more effort.

Again, Business 101...

So yes, I do believe there should be exclusive perks if you manage to successfully do it.

You've got that backwards.

Large businesses exist where there is a natural benefit to being larger (economies of scale, etc.), not because the government has chosen to artificially give rewards to the largest businesses.

What you're suggesting is the introduction of perverse incentives, encouragements to have a large clan regardless of the natural reasons to do so, or not.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

9 minutes ago, Nariala said:

So, by something being easier, and merely a popularity contest in the end, you deserve more rewards. Got it. 

What are you talking about?

I have no dog in this fight, but busting your butt to maintain a large, VIABLE clan takes work and I recommend some additional incentives is all.

The recent and coming changes are starting to institute performance standards just like any real-world business, and running a bigger business takes more effort.

If JUST the prestige of being able to do so is enough reward, so be it.  But I doubt it.  Go check and see how many clans have downsized JUST from the Hema.

The real-world benefits of Big Business do not apply to the Clan Model in Warframe, so if DE actually sees value in them, they need special incentives.

Or they will largely disappear.  Which may be what DE wants anyway.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You've got that backwards.

Large businesses exist where there is a natural benefit to being larger (economies of scale, etc.), not because the government has chosen to artificially give rewards to the largest businesses.

What you're suggesting is the introduction of perverse incentives, encouragements to have a large clan regardless of the natural reasons to do so, or not.

The system in the game is all the effort of the real world Big Business model with none of the real world reward, so no I don't have it backwards.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

running a bigger business takes more effort.

only from the managing department, though. so, by this logic, should only warlords be awarded by perks?

5 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Large businesses exist where there is a natural benefit to being larger (economies of scale, etc.), not because the government has chosen to artificially give rewards to the largest businesses.

exactly.

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

if DE actually sees value in them, they need special incentives.

it certainly seems so and i keep wondering why.

some people brought up possible technical / financial reasons (server upkeep), if that's the case wouldn't there be more upfront and logical solutions to that, tho? like, for example allowing for clan fusions... i dunno. (i really don't)