HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[(PSN)Onder6099]

16 hours ago, Siekier said:

Oh hey, I remember you.

You're that guy that said we shouldn't complain about bugs associated with Kuva Siphons that pretty much made it impossible to finish them (such as Kuva clouds spawning right next to the siphon or in the walls etc) and we should just enjoy the game instead.

 

Same as before, your "argument" makes no sense whatsoever. Plexus did a great job explaining why.

Sorry, I'm missing the point why u posted this here.

[Ditto132]

9 hours ago, DictatorKt07 said:

You know, in the time people spent complaining about it, you probably could have ALREADY farmed the weapon, crafted and formaed. Just saying

Refer to this:

23 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

Previously, I am being polite by saying things like:
"Those are not solutions but bypasses and exploits, they doesn't fix the issue at all"

But I had enough! Going to let some steam off. 

I been holding this back for months... wanting to respond to statements of such forms:
"Buy booster, get meta squad, go farm. Problem solved"
"Farm primes, sell for plat, buy with plat. Problem solved"
"Reduce clan size. go join other clans. invite more members. Problem solved"

with examples such as:
"No money to pay for your ever increasing rent? Rent will not be reduced. Go be a prostitute. Problem solved"
"Taxes have increased? No point complaining. Go take up another job and work till you drop dead. Problem solved"
"Ducat values reduced? DE not going to honour your Ducats, don't complaining. Go farm more Ducats by farming more Relics to crack open. Problem solved"

Well, since you feel that complaining/feedback or any form of communications are not worth the time.
I'm adding this:
"You know, in the time DE spent on DevStream and Prime Time session, they probably could have ALREADY fixed some bugs, created new contents and polished them. Just saying"

7 hours ago, Ravel7 said:

well glad i took the 2 months off ( other than log in ) i'm taking to long perspective   . the passion seems to have gone  , I'm really waiting for the new thing that both the Dev team and  us tenno can get excited about .  Just look at arch-wing which had been broke for OVER A YEAR!  I'm thinking that the Hema might be like that ; it being a year+  problem  .

I'm wondering if  it 'll be fixed before i just stop logging into the game . 

I avoided playing Arch-Wing after they added 6 Degree of Freedom. I am unable to perform roll using my controller.

You don't just stop logging into the game. Usually you would be too busy with other stuffs and forget or can't be bothered to login.
That is when you "quit" playing the game. Especially when there are no friends left to play with and no interesting content to enjoy.
If you played other MMO before, think about when, why, how you stopped playing.

For Warframe, the daily tribute system helps in maintaining players "playing" the game. (Actually just login and maybe do some stuffs)
But once the player can see pass the daily tribute system, the player will not login just for the sake of login.
Daily tribute is a system to get you hooked/addicted to the game to get you coming back for more, in similar way that smoking/drugs does.

Some players would probably stopped playing Warframe if they were to stop logging in for a few weeks.

[Volinus7]

1 hour ago, Ditto132 said:

 

At this point wf passed the line of a game to be played and became a game that plays you instead which is pretty much what it's designed to be.

 

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Volinus7 said:

At this point wf passed the line of a game to be played and became a game that plays you instead which is pretty much what it's designed to be.

Actually, it passed that point nearly a year ago when alertium was introduced. Essentially forcing the player to log in on their command or they won't be able to make any progress. This is why I refuse to use anything which contains it - just draco to 30 for the mastery points and then throw it away.

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, Volinus7 said:

At this point wf passed the line of a game to be played and became a game that plays you instead which is pretty much what it's designed to be.

 

Since you had seen that video, you should know my point of view and what I said so far.

[Maziani]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 10:52 PM, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

... Rush, imho, have a decent impact to this game, we are pushing DE to make new content every week, which cause not every time is it polished. But they still have a time to polish this and that, unfortunately only minority cares because rule #4. ...

1. What is your Rule 4? Because I thought the internet rule 4 had a completely different meaning.
2. I am that player that rushed content. I completed MR 16-17 and all quests, map locations and even Trials in approximately 70 days. I didn't even play it like a job, but it took over my nights and weekends.

Right now, I see people advertising for polymer bundle and plastid farming, and I look at my inventory and wonder why. At MR 18, I'm gated by Forma and Nitain more than anything else. (And for about 30 of those days, I used extractors and the mobile app to get as much materials as I could-- but once I crossed a threshold, I didn't need them anymore and I stopped collecting them.)

 

My biggest concern with being resource surplus is that DE will do with other resources what they have done with Mutagen Samples and Cyrotic (Hema & Sybear)

[MagPrime]

12 minutes ago, Maziani said:

Right now, I see people advertising for polymer bundle and plastid farming, and I look at my inventory and wonder why. At MR 18, I'm gated by Forma and Nitain more than anything else. (And for about 30 of those days, I used extractors and the mobile app to get as much materials as I could-- but once I crossed a threshold, I didn't need them anymore and I stopped collecting them.)

I'm MR21 and farm out those two resources because I build a lot of keys, restores and other consumables. 

17 minutes ago, Maziani said:

My biggest concern with being resource surplus is that DE will do with other resources what they have done with Mutagen Samples and Cyrotic (Hema & Sybear)

I do agree with this though.  While I don't have an issue with large research costs that requires a player to farm a bit, the extent that DE has gone for those two weapons is too much.

[Maziani]

3 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I'm MR21 and farm out those two resources because I build a lot of keys, restores and other consumables. 

I have 20 spare keys of anything I'm likely to play with any regularity (although that's excessive, since you can do a mission, set a key to build, do another mission, set another key to build, and always stay key-positive.)

I even keep several spare keys for Trials in case any of my friends want to put together a group but don't have a key handy. Considering the low cost and high manufacturing time for trials and Lephantis assassinate, having a few extras makes sense. (And I've already finished doing Mutalist Alad V Assassinate, so I don't have any reason to build more keys-- I keep one incase we get a newb clan mate who needs a carry. But keeping a bunch doesn't make a lot of sense.)

I don't use a bunch of consumables though-- so while I have them, the energy pizza is really the only one that I use with any regularity and then only for LOR bomb carrying (cause EV can't always get the job done.)

[LSG501]

On 27/02/2017 at 5:10 PM, Maziani said:

Right now, I see people advertising for polymer bundle and plastid farming, and I look at my inventory and wonder why.

My biggest concern with being resource surplus is that DE will do with other resources what they have done with Mutagen Samples and Cyrotic (Hema & Sybear)

Realistically my lowest resource when you consider how much is used each time is polymer, for whatever reason I'm forever running low on that, might be from the pizza's and other consumables which use polymer.  Not sure about plastid farming though, don't think I've had a need for that for quite some time. 

While my cryotic is pretty high, I'm only about half way to getting my sibear (which I'm sure I'll have enough for when I start farming for the axi relics for banshee...)

Hema and mutagen samples was sorted by being really clan friendly and kicking a load of people out due to either lack of activity or just not 'willing to help' and then lowering clan tier....followed by a load of grinding by a few players who went in meta squads...and boosters.  Still think the amounts needed for all parts of it's research are stupidly high though. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by LSG501
clarity

[MagPrime]

43 minutes ago, Maziani said:

I have 20 spare keys of anything I'm likely to play with any regularity (although that's excessive, since you can do a mission, set a key to build, do another mission, set another key to build, and always stay key-positive.)

I even keep several spare keys for Trials in case any of my friends want to put together a group but don't have a key handy. Considering the low cost and high manufacturing time for trials and Lephantis assassinate, having a few extras makes sense. (And I've already finished doing Mutalist Alad V Assassinate, so I don't have any reason to build more keys-- I keep one incase we get a newb clan mate who needs a carry. But keeping a bunch doesn't make a lot of sense.)

I don't use a bunch of consumables though-- so while I have them, the energy pizza is really the only one that I use with any regularity and then only for LOR bomb carrying (cause EV can't always get the job done.)

I run with new players and spend a lot of consumables trying to keep them alive, complete an objective or by throwing out specters to help augment weak weapons/Warframes.  Not to mention help people farm out keyed content.

It's kind of all I have left to do at the moment. .-.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

 

1 hour ago, Maziani said:

1. What is your Rule 4? Because I thought the internet rule 4 had a completely different meaning.
2. I am that player that rushed content. I completed MR 16-17 and all quests, map locations and even Trials in approximately 70 days. I didn't even play it like a job, but it took over my nights and weekends.

Right now, I see people advertising for polymer bundle and plastid farming, and I look at my inventory and wonder why. At MR 18, I'm gated by Forma and Nitain more than anything else. (And for about 30 of those days, I used extractors and the mobile app to get as much materials as I could-- but once I crossed a threshold, I didn't need them anymore and I stopped collecting them.)

 

My biggest concern with being resource surplus is that DE will do with other resources what they have done with Mutagen Samples and Cyrotic (Hema & Sybear)

1. My Rule #4: We call Greed and Personal Profit Efficiency here

Which causes that the decent amount of players are playing only few Nodes and while they have stockpiles of resources from those specific Nodes, fe Detonite Ampules from old Draco, Alloy Plates from old Void, Fieldron Samples and Cryotics, ha, isn't strange that was only few Topics about 30k Cryotics, from Hieracon, they missing resources from " forgotten" planets including Derelict, especially when, as someone already stated, Void got rework and Ember p bp and Nova p systems was removed.

2. Quicker u will rush quicker u will hit the point and u will ask yourself: What now? Leave?

Thats the reason why DE are hard at work and releasing content weekly, to let u stay.

I can bet that if DE will add Banshee p bp and Euphona p receiver into Derelict tomorrow with horrible drop the problem with MS will disappear in split second.

Edit: IMHO, Relic system, Sortie and Kuva Fortress are also here to passively get Resources from Planets we will never enter again.

Edited February 27, 2017 by (PS4)Onder6099

[Maziani]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

1. My Rule #4: We call Greed and Personal Profit Efficiency here

TY for this answer.

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

2. Quicker u will rush quicker u will hit the point and u will ask yourself: What now? Leave?

Thats the reason why DE are hard at work and releasing content weekly, to let u stay.

I like the rate at which content is released, even if it isn't really useful to me.

I play for fun. At this point, I don't really have anything to do except Trials and difficult challenges to earn stuff that can be sold to other players for Plat.

I forsee myself having at least another year of play time, and if they release more story content or trials or new game modes, that will extend that play time.

With the plans to add the Nemesis (gang leader) system, I see this holding my interest for at least a few months-- and at that rate, they will likely keep my attention indefinitely. (At least until they do something so offensive that I decide to quit, or until they stop making money.)

 

But if they add more Hema (or Sybear) like grinds, I won't endorse those decisions by spending money with DE. And if they make decisions that cause a big portion of their player base to refuse to spend money, eventually they will go under. Am I arrogant enough to believe that my personal decision will affect their profitability? no. Am I arrogant enough to believe that I am even in the majority? Not really, but it's possible. Only DE would really know, if they bother to assess the question objectively.

 

But, this is pretty much the stance I'm standing by for now. There are two Tennogen items I would love to buy right now, but because of these decisions by DE and the fact that DE is going to get some money from Tennogen sales, I'm just unwilling to spend further money until these issues are rectified.

 

And if they refuse to resolve, but continue to hold my attention with free content, then that just means I get a somewhat decent game for free-- until they go under.

[(PSN)OmegaSlayer]

wow, 83 pages and still going.

The point here is that DE made this decision and they're backing it up. Right or wrong, like it or not.

I would complain that they mentioned they would have looked at drop rates and they didn't.

Unfortunately ODD is one of the most boring things ever, ODS is much better but didn't drop as many in my experience.

Mutagen samples for a new player are a big problem as Invasion doesn't reward as many masses as fieldron and injectors, so you might be torn to keep those 10 masses for you or build your masses for weapons.

I'd be happy with a 2-3% increase in drop rates and 3 mutagen masses fro invasions, and not 1 or 2.

It's true that some players exploit systems like with the Secura Lecta, but you can't punish even those players that didn't...

[Ditto132]

On 10/02/2017 at 11:59 PM, Ditto132 said:

Lol... I mainly only shared those type of videos with my game developer friends.

Maybe I should share this so that DE can learn something from it, and hope that DE do something about it.

 

[Flirk2]

3 hours ago, Maziani said:

Right now, I see people advertising for polymer bundle and plastid farming, and I look at my inventory and wonder why.

I have to ask. Have you tried to put decorations in the dojo?

Those bushes are not cheap if you are in a largish clan. Of course, if you have a large clan, more people can contribute. But would they know they need to? Would they want to?

1 or two bushes won't make you go plastid farming. But large scale decoration effort will.

Then there are things that need tons of polymer bundles to research. 12.5k polymer bundles for Elytron wings research, for example.

And polymer bundles drop on 2 low level planets with low level rewards and on Uranus. Mid level planet which is notorious for it's bugged extermination, where sometimes you won't be able to even finish the mission.

So, it's no wonder people need polymer bundles all the time and plastids now and then.

2 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I can bet that if DE will add Banshee p bp and Euphona p receiver into Derelict tomorrow with horrible drop the problem with MS will disappear in split second.

No it won't.

Because there was an Ember bp in derelict defense. That's probably the way I got most of my mutagen samples before Hema. And all I got that way was 3.3k. So to get enough samples I would still need to actively farm them if I was trying to fund a solo ghost clan.

Most people were avoiding Derelict even when there were some prime parts there.

But who needs numbers, right? It's ''raining mutagen in Derelict'' after all...

Not to mention, they will never put prime parts in Derelict now. All they may do is put new relics there. And getting a relic feels nowhere near as rewarding as getting a part.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Flirk2

[Maziani]

36 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

I have to ask. Have you tried to put decorations in the dojo?

Actually, yes.

I destroyed and rebuilt my clan dojo. The warlord had put everything in a straight line. I created something much more compact and sensible. I've also decorated it.

The clan has a ton of those resources.

I have actually contributed a few Morphics and Neurodes; I have like 200 Morphics and 300 Neurodes.

 

I've also personally run into the decoration limit on some of the rooms/hallways. So it's not like we're not decorating a lot.

 

But my guild had people donate everything that we needed long before I joined the clan-- and when I destroyed and rebuilt the dojo all those resources just went back in to the clan bank.

 

 

My clan is pretty happy with the effort-- we're looking forward to the Nemesis system (me probably more than the rest of them as they've gone semi casual with Warframe and I'm still playing daily.)

[--RV--Shadow]

Just a few words from a casual player

 

When i saw Hema mutagen sample cost i laughed so hard i allmost died thx to my smoking lungs...cause its sooooo crazy it cant even be true but yeah

..YEAH IT REALLY IS!

Like what DE expected?

That player will be like from Mad max?

"What a day...WHAT A LOVELY DAY!!...of fcking grinding mutagen for hema?!..

This is so crazy that it should be reviewed by AngryJoe and put up as ANGRY RANT...

[Flirk2]

17 minutes ago, Maziani said:

But my guild had people donate everything that we needed long before I joined the clan-- and when I destroyed and rebuilt the dojo all those resources just went back in to the clan bank.

I see. Well, so you didn't need to farm those things. Those people you see setting up farms for those polymer bundles and such most likely have to collect those resources themselves.

There are new clans forming. Some old clans that never bothered with decorations may get new people who want to decorate. And so on.

Even the basic building of stuff needs resources in such quantities that if you don't have a lot of time to play the game, you need to set up a farming squad.

People play the game in different ways. The other day with public matchmaking there was one MR20 Loki Prime on a spying fissure that set off alarms in two data vaults while we collected reactant and abandoned the mission. Today with publicly matched MR16, and two MR13 (about 450 hours of playing between those two...) and me, we managed to stay till 3300 on Hieracon without much trouble (and every one of them outdamaged and outkilled me...).

Problem is, with the new trend we'll see people with 2k hours in game farming alloy plate soon enough. Because, apparently, having large amounts of resources after playing more than 10 times the average total play time is a sin punishable by hyper-inflated prices.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Flirk2

[Maziani]

5 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

... Because, apparently, having large amounts of resources after playing more than 10 times the average total play time is a sin punishable by hyper-inflated prices.

This is the single sentiment that I'm 'railing against.' (read: Politely and respectfully requested a re-evaluation of previous decisions.)

Well said.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

2 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

I have to ask. Have you tried to put decorations in the dojo?

Those bushes are not cheap if you are in a largish clan. Of course, if you have a large clan, more people can contribute. But would they know they need to? Would they want to?

1 or two bushes won't make you go plastid farming. But large scale decoration effort will.

Then there are things that need tons of polymer bundles to research. 12.5k polymer bundles for Elytron wings research, for example.

And polymer bundles drop on 2 low level planets with low level rewards and on Uranus. Mid level planet which is notorious for it's bugged extermination, where sometimes you won't be able to even finish the mission.

So, it's no wonder people need polymer bundles all the time and plastids now and then.

No it won't.

Because there was an Ember bp in derelict defense. That's probably the way I got most of my mutagen samples before Hema. And all I got that way was 3.3k. So to get enough samples I would still need to actively farm them if I was trying to fund a solo ghost clan.

Most people were avoiding Derelict even when there were some prime parts there.

But who needs numbers, right? It's ''raining mutagen in Derelict'' after all...

Not to mention, they will never put prime parts in Derelict now. All they may do is put new relics there. And getting a relic feels nowhere near as rewarding as getting a part.

Sorry dude, but u choose wrong person because that were days when just me and my clanmate was farming for Mountain clan, how about Tellurium for Itzal when it drops only in Archwing? Speaking about decorations is little bit pointless,  because my Warlord is building everything alone, we just sometimes contribute and my opinion about Clans I already stated, bad manegment, players without any interest etc, yes we downgraded but in time when Wukong was released. Avoiding Derelict? Sure, because that was easier to buy the Ember bp and then sell whole set. Polymer Bundles? That was just my tip when I looked into my Inventory, iirc I had 5Mega when E-gate was a thing.

Cheers

Edit: Forgot on MS, coproduct while I'm farming for Nano Spores thanks to Pizzas, Polymers on Uranus as well.

Edited February 27, 2017 by (PS4)Onder6099

[John89brensen]

On 26/2/2017 at 6:05 AM, Volinus7 said:

At this point wf passed the line of a game to be played and became a game that plays you instead which is pretty much what it's designed to be.

(video snip)

The follow up to your video, talking about exit points in games. More about how gamers time is valuable, something i feel DE has forgotten.

 

[dashashou]

3 hours ago, John89brensen said:

The follow up to your video, talking about exit points in games. More about how gamers time is valuable, something i feel DE has forgotten.

 

SO your saying that the Hema 's insane cost  is a natural " Exit Point " for vets ? 

[John89brensen]

32 minutes ago, Ravel7 said:

SO your saying that the Hema 's insane cost  is a natural " Exit Point " for vets ? 

Im saying that more and more it seems like Warframe is a game that does not value its players time. After a certain point there is little to do, beyond farming, so DE naturally increases the grind wall. Hema is just the most extreme example of this.

[Flirk2]

17 hours ago, Maziani said:

This is the single sentiment that I'm 'railing against.' (read: Politely and respectfully requested a re-evaluation of previous decisions.)

Thank you.

15 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Sorry dude, but u choose wrong person because that were days when just me and my clanmate was farming for Mountain clan, how about Tellurium for Itzal when it drops only in Archwing?

Uranus missions drop Tellurium. Even those that are not an Archwing. But that's beside the point. Tellurium is another bottle neck for new player to do research. But it's nowhere near as narrow as 500 mutagen samples.

Most things need 1 Telllurium for research. And you sometimes get one as a login reward.

Hema needs 5k if you are in the ghost clan. 500 if you are in a fully active and full to the brim clan. While you get 2 samples as a login reward.

Seems fair, right?

15 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Speaking about decorations is little bit pointless,

I was answering to @Maziani when I spoke about decorations.

You quoted my whole post, but there were 2 quotes in that post that were not quoted with it. The system discards them. But they were important to understand which part was addressed to which person.

Just saying...

15 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Polymer Bundles? That was just my tip when I looked into my Inventory, iirc I had 5Mega when E-gate was a thing.

And that's making the situation better how?

E-gate thing was stomped out.

Go ahead and try collecting 5M polymer bundles now.

I really don't understand people with their ''LOL, 20 Nitain for Vauban is nothing. I have 100 in inventory!'' Sure you do. And how it's going to aid someone who just starts to play the game? Or can only have 2 hours of play time 3 times a week?

Not to mention, the whole business with polymer bundles and plastids was a reply to another player about why there are people setting up farming squads for those resources.

But don't worry. You having 5M polymer bundles can be easily factored in by devs. By setting next research price at 10M for ghost clan.

I'm really curious how many Hema defenders will defend that price.

Say, a new Corpus rifle that removes your shields on reload. And needs 50k fieldron samples, 10M polymer bundles, 20M alloy plate 1000 nitain, and 30M credits.

1000 nitain will not be that bad, if you think like DE seems to think. I have slightly above 100, so in a full clan of people logging in every day, it's just 100 per person. ''You might already have enough in your inventory'', ''it's just a few alerts'', and ''it's raining nitain in ship sabotage'' they will say.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Flirk2

[(PSN)Onder6099]

2 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Thank you.

Uranus missions drop Tellurium. Even those that are not an Archwing. But that's beside the point. Tellurium is another bottle neck for new player to do research. But it's nowhere near as narrow as 500 mutagen samples.

Most things need 1 Telllurium for research. And you sometimes get one as a login reward.

Hema needs 5k if you are in the ghost clan. 500 if you are in a fully active and full to the brim clan. While you get 2 samples as a login reward.

Seems fair, right?

I was answering to @Maziani when I spoke about decorations.

You quoted my whole post, but there were 2 quotes in that post that were not quoted with it. The system discards them. But they were important to understand which part was addressed to which person.

Just saying...

And that's making the situation better how?

E-gate thing was stomped out.

Go ahead and try collecting 5M polymer bundles now.

I really don't understand people with their ''LOL, 20 Nitain for Vauban is nothing. I have 100 in inventory!'' Sure you do. And how it's going to aid someone who just starts to play the game? Or can only have 2 hours of play time 3 times a week?

Not to mention, the whole business with polymer bundles and plastids was a reply to another player about why there are people setting up farming squads for those resources.

But don't worry. You having 5M polymer bundles can be easily factored in by devs. By setting next research price at 10M for ghost clan.

I'm really curious how many Hema defenders will defend that price.

Say, a new Corpus rifle that removes your shields on reload. And needs 50k fieldron samples, 10M polymer bundles, 20M alloy plate 1000 nitain, and 30M credits.

1000 nitain will not be that bad, if you think like DE seems to think. I have slightly above 100, so in a full clan of people logging in every day, it's just 100 per person. ''You might already have enough in your inventory'', ''it's just a few alerts'', and ''it's raining nitain in ship sabotage'' they will say.

1. Tellurium, sorry, but u have no idea what I'm talk about

2. Sorry about Dojo issue 

3. 5M Polymers was gone a decent time ago, but I have no problem to farm it when I around 100k bellow, 1 of the problems, players don't spare resources from "dead" planets and they are surprised when it's late

4. 180 days between Nitain and Vauban p releases, 1 Nitain/9 days, oh Newbies, all parts of Vauban are rare drop, so when they play regularly and don't follow Queen's song: I want it all and I want it now, they have enough time to spare Nitain

5. Your amount of new Corpus is decently speaking, exaggerated, but I think nobody will have problems with those 50k Fieldron samples

People are setting squads, nice to see that, because probably a decent amount, I hope, of players realized to have a spare Resources is not a bad idea

Edited February 28, 2017 by (PS4)Onder6099