HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Ginger Bruhv said:

Stop complaining. I'm in a shadow clan with only 6 people that actually donated. We got a group of 4 in Orokin Derelict Survival, stayed an hour, got 250 samples, repeat. Took less than 2 days. 

Stop being lazy and put in the effort. If not, farm the plat and buy it yourself.

Refer to this:

On 25/02/2017 at 3:18 PM, Ditto132 said:

Previously, I am being polite by saying things like:
"Those are not solutions but bypasses and exploits, they doesn't fix the issue at all"

But I had enough! Going to let some steam off. 

I been holding this back for months... wanting to respond to statements of such forms:
"Buy booster, get meta squad, go farm. Problem solved"
"Farm primes, sell for plat, buy with plat. Problem solved"
"Reduce clan size. go join other clans. invite more members. Problem solved"

with examples such as:
"No money to pay for your ever increasing rent? Rent will not be reduced. Go be a prostitute. Problem solved"
"Taxes have increased? No point complaining. Go take up another job and work till you drop dead. Problem solved"
"Ducat values reduced? DE not going to honour your Ducats, don't complaining. Go farm more Ducats by farming more Relics to crack open. Problem solved"

[(PSN)Eluminary]

18k/50k the grind continues nearly halfway

[Volinus7]

Looks like DE's hema wound will never heal.....

[JacketUnHoly]

On 2/23/2017 at 9:33 PM, Buff00n said:

 

I feel like, to really make your point properly, the only option is DELICIOUS PIE CHARTS.

Presented in order of how closely each chart resembles Pac Man:

1. Plastids:

  Reveal hidden contents

2. Nano Spores:

  Reveal hidden contents

3. Neurodes:

  Reveal hidden contents

4. Mutagen Samples:

  Reveal hidden contents

Numbers are for Ghost clans, relative area is the same for all tiers. 

These graphs make me think somebody added an extra zero to the end of all the base costs.

[takeshiblue]

Pretty sure someone in DE has seen this already, yes this was in January. Yes it was "said" they made it more common of a drop but that doesn't fix the problem still. I reduced the clan tier to storm and 13k is still excessive to put in there with so little manpower. I joked Hema wouldn't get completed for 2 years now it seems truer as the time passes.

[Leahzar]

DE has made it clear that they will NOT be changing the amount of mutagen needed for the Hema, BUT they are aware that they overdid it a bit with it, so they will not do something similar in the future. 
I'll repeat, DE WILL NOT CHANGE IT, because Steve said it would be totally unfair to change it now after so many has already invested a lot of time into farming the mutagen needed for the Hema. 
 

[Tsardova]

Way I see it, the only fix they can make now is to buff Hema to the point where it's actually worth the investment (somewhat meta status *cough*) ....

Be it adding a gimmick where it spawns mini infested that saps enemy hp and transfer them to allies who kill the enemies, upping the hp regain rate form current gimmick considerably, or just outright better damage output. Idc what it is but make the weapon feel like it's worth the investment, man up to the mistake that's been made here.

That way, at the very least, those who already researched/ made the weapon can feel their investment is worth their time and effort while motivating people who haven't pitched in/ research to actually go and put their time into making the weapon.

 

TL;DR? make the friggin weapon worthy of the investment requirement mistake that you made DE.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Tsardova

[(PSN)Onder6099]

77x or Pac Man, it's still just 500 MS per clanmate in 100% active Clan, which is around 5x 20 waves of ODD if u have 0 MS in your inventory. Is it really that hard to understand that only thing what DE wants from us are active Clans?

[rudman88]

you can take your time. There is no rush for it. Is not liek it is a limit ed time weapon.

Slowly do mroe ODD xd

[MajesticPinecone]

50 minutes ago, Leahzar said:

DE has made it clear that they will NOT be changing the amount of mutagen needed for the Hema, BUT they are aware that they overdid it a bit with it, so they will not do something similar in the future. 
I'll repeat, DE WILL NOT CHANGE IT, because Steve said it would be totally unfair to change it now after so many has already invested a lot of time into farming the mutagen needed for the Hema. 
 

they also said that previously with the sibear ill wait and see how DE handles it in the future but i do agree to stop making these posts.

[Tsardova]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

77x or Pac Man, it's still just 500 MS per clanmate in 100% active Clan, which is around 5x 20 waves of ODD if u have 0 MS in your inventory. Is it really that hard to understand that only thing what DE wants from us are active Clans?

It's not about that though, it's about the underwhelming nature of the effort we have to put through to even research the thing compared to the thing we're actually getting.

Sure you can just pass the argument "If it doesn't appeal to you, you shouldn't bother with it" for argument sake but some people are completionist and they want to complete their profile index. Problem being the amount of resources asked to make such an underwhelming weapon for possibly just a mastery fodder purposes is an annoyance at best.

If you let this kind of attitude go on, chances are DE will be likely to make the same mistake again. Whether the 5k requirement is intentional or not, it's too high a threshold compared to any other weapon in the list.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

18 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

It's not about that though, it's about the underwhelming nature of the effort we have to put through to even research the thing compared to the thing we're actually getting.

Sure you can just pass the argument "If it doesn't appeal to you, you shouldn't bother with it" for argument sake but some people are completionist and they want to complete their profile index. Problem being the amount of resources asked to make such an underwhelming weapon for possibly just a mastery fodder purposes is an annoyance at best.

If you let this kind of attitude go on, chances are DE will be likely to make the same mistake again. Whether the 5k requirement is intentional or not, it's too high a threshold compared to any other weapon in the list.

It´s 500 MS/ person, no matters if weapon is good or bad and please don't compare with old weapons, it's irrelevant.

[rudman88]

18 minutes ago, Tsardova said:

It's not about that though, it's about the underwhelming nature of the effort we have to put through to even research the thing compared to the thing we're actually getting.

Sure you can just pass the argument "If it doesn't appeal to you, you shouldn't bother with it" for argument sake but some people are completionist and they want to complete their profile index. Problem being the amount of resources asked to make such an underwhelming weapon for possibly just a mastery fodder purposes is an annoyance at best.

If you let this kind of attitude go on, chances are DE will be likely to make the same mistake again. Whether the 5k requirement is intentional or not, it's too high a threshold compared to any other weapon in the list.

Even if they do the same mistake. Most people will pull it off. I suggest you start farming.

5 x 20 wave of ODD is not that hard. it is at most 5 hour of your life.

It doesnt take alot of effort as people claim. in 1 run you can get 100+ / person.

 

If you just plain lazy jsut join a clan that has it. quit and come back to you original clan

[Tsardova]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

It´s 500 MS/ person, no matters if weapon is good or bad and please don't compare with old weapons, it's irrelevant.

500 per person, assuming you have active contributing clan members and is not a solo clan. Ever thought of that?

"please don't compare with old weapons" 

Now you're just out of argument and being evasive.... the main attraction that makes people look into a weapon in warframe (which has nearly 300 weapons in total by this point) IS to compare one weapon to another and see how we can optimize it/ differentiate it from the rest. To say doing so is irrelevant just means you're being ignorant as heck of how some people gain enjoyment in this game.

Notice how Soma got its "crit king" Assault Riffle status compared to Braton's "all rounder" status, how they each are good in their own way? Yeah, they're unique AND they're worth the investment compared to one another compared to the Hema's absurd requirement to actual viability/ fun factor.

It's a game for everyone, not just you mate.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Tsardova

[Tsardova]

7 minutes ago, rudman88 said:

Even if they do the same mistake. Most people will pull it off. I suggest you start farming.

5 x 20 wave of ODD is not that hard. it is at most 5 hour of your life.

It doesnt take alot of effort as people claim. in 1 run you can get 100+ / person.

 

If you just plain lazy jsut join a clan that has it. quit and come back to you original clan

Uh... already made mine ages ago with 3 other mates.... hence why we stand our ground.

For the time we invested into researching the weapon to what we actually get in the end, 5k is still a steep asking price compared to the other bio weapons. And don't go around like the other guy saying, "don't compare it to the other weapons"..... if it is indeed DE's mistake, they should owe up to it. We're not supposed to be the ones covering for their mistake.

Plus, we're talking about rng and time investment here. The later being something that some people can't afford. You gotta put yourself in their shoes and not just go and say "I'll still be okay with" it cause then you're not sympathizing with them at all.

Suggesting you get off your high horse and start assuming people who don't support/ tolerate DE's mistake as them being lazy/ not having invested in it there mate. If DE made a mistake, they either have to owe up to it or find a solution to appease all their audience. Just common decency.

[rudman88]

1 minute ago, Tsardova said:

Uh... already made mine ages ago with 3 other mates.... hence why we stand our ground.

For the time we invested into researching the weapon to what we actually get in the end, 5k is still a steep asking price compared to the other bio weapons. And don't go around like the other guy saying, "don't compare it to the other weapons"..... if it is indeed DE's mistake, they should owe up to it. We're not supposed to be the ones covering for their mistake.

Plus, we're talking about rng and time investment here. The later being something that some people can't afford. You gotta put yourself in their shoes and not just go and say "I'll still be okay with" it cause then you're not sympathizing with them at all.

Suggesting you get off your high horse and start assuming people who don't support/ tolerate DE's mistake as them being lazy/ not having invested in it there mate. If DE made a mistake, they either have to owe up to it or find a solution to appease all their audience. Just common decency.

 

1. their reasoning was mutagen sample is the most item that a player has in their database. Which means that 500 mutagen sample is the average / majority people have in their inventory. Fromt he past, mutagen sample drop a lot in ODD. All the while most weapon can be made in a day with little farming. This is where they made the mistake that most active players are vet and screw it up.

 

2. To cover for the new players, DE has increased the drop rate of MS in ODD and ODS. I find it fair enough because if have tested and verfied it 500 ++ MS in 5 x 20 run in ODD.

 

3. why must you sympathize with this lazy keyboard warriors ? It is out for 2 months and not as if it has time limit. I dont sympathize with beggars because they chose to be one. They can always work it out somehow and especially when there is no restriction from them to do so. 

 

4. It is an investment. If you think it is bad dont invest on it. You can farm it at your own pace and 1 year later buy it. Go and invest in the things you find worth investing.

 

5. I am not appeasing anybody but it is a fact that :

A. Is doable 5 hrs of your life to get 500 ms

B. Complaining here and not farming it will not get you anywhere

 

 

 

 

Regarding whether how usefull a weapon is it purely depends on your preference and play style. Now with riven in palce even trash weapon can be great.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1 hour ago, Tsardova said:

500 per person, assuming you have active contributing clan members and is not a solo clan. Ever thought of that?

"please don't compare with old weapons" 

Now you're just out of argument and being evasive.... the main attraction that makes people look into a weapon in warframe (which has nearly 300 weapons in total by this point) IS to compare one weapon to another and see how we can optimize it/ differentiate it from the rest. To say doing so is irrelevant just means you're being ignorant as heck of how some people gain enjoyment in this game.

Notice how Soma got its "crit king" Assault Riffle status compared to Braton's "all rounder" status, how they each are good in their own way? Yeah, they're unique AND they're worth the investment compared to one another compared to the Hema's absurd requirement to actual viability/ fun factor.

It's a game for everyone, not just you mate.

We are speaking about resources needed for research and not between weapons them self, right?

I went to another town for great job, rent a flat, but deal with owner ended. Should i cry? No, I go and found a house for rent, but it's for 10 persons. Should I compare with previous flat, because the rent is 10x higher? No, because I will loose my job. Nvm I made my own  decision to work harder and longer to cover rent alone. I worked 13hrs/day and 2hrs cost me journey to job, so I get idea to buy a car, ups, I discovered that I have no money for that because 4/5 of my money income goes to rent and that the idea hits me: Halo it's house for 10 people. I found another 9 people and now work less harder, have free time, because I'm not dead tired from work and finally I bought a car.

Solo Clan: absolutely absurd connection, Clan is more then 4 people, iirc, and it's players own decision as mine to pay a rent for 10 people, so I have no idea why u still stick underneath the nose this argument.

 

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

1. their reasoning was mutagen sample is the most item that a player has in their database. Which means that 500 mutagen sample is the average / majority people have in their inventory. Fromt he past, mutagen sample drop a lot in ODD. All the while most weapon can be made in a day with little farming. This is where they made the mistake that most active players are vet and screw it up.

Mutagens are the most common item that players have? What kind of weird sampling mechanic did they use there - do they have some kind of selector for players that only ever spend their time in the derelict? Because from my 4 years of gameplay, I have at least 10x as many detonites and fieldrons as I do mutagens. That's 26k/21k/1.7k, if you want actual numbers. This ratio is pretty comparable across the other members of my clan, so I'm not an outlier here.

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

2. To cover for the new players, DE has increased the drop rate of MS in ODD and ODS. I find it fair enough because if have tested and verfied it 500 ++ MS in 5 x 20 run in ODD.

Have they? This is your "after" data, where's your "before" showing that the drop rate has increased? Because as far as I can tell, derelict mutagens have not changed once.

And the problem still remains that players have absolutely no reason to even look at the derelict once they've obtained their 20 kavat DNA and possibly some corrupted mods. Prime parts no longer drop there, relics can be found in far better quantities on normal starchart nodes, and everything in the derelict is still locked behind a stupid key system - which means that you can't even drop into a pug game for some casual farming.

To restate the problem:

1 = the hema's mutagen sample cost is 77x that of the second most expensive item, with absolutely no reason given why this is the case.

2 = mutagen samples basically only appear in 2 nodes on the ENTIRE STARCHART, while fieldron and detonite drop from every single node on 6 and 7 planets, respectively.

3 = the two nodes from which mutagen samples drop are still locked behind a stupid key system.

So, let's hear your justification for this. Why should this one item cost what is essentially an entire year's worth of resources, if not more (because with prime parts removed, there is no longer any reason to go back to the derelict)? And this is at the absolute best case, for a 100% full clan made of 100% contributing members. Realistically, you're looking at a 30% contribution rate - which means that the hema takes THREE YEARS of gameplay to acquire.

Explain to me why this is a good thing.

[ChuckMaverick]

8 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

Looks like DE's hema wound will never heal....

"Respecting players' investment" of time or in-game resources is a ridiculous idea; if balance changes need to happen then they should happen, and no refunds are necessary. Players (should) expect changes to happen in persistent online games and we don't need to be 'protected' from them, we're not babies.

I farmed the resources for the Hema, solo, the costs should still be changed. I'd rather DE 'rsespect' me by making the best game they can for everyone and not worrying about or being held hostage by players' decisions and past actions.

3 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

77x or Pac Man, it's still just 500 MS per clanmate in 100% active Clan, which is around 5x 20 waves of ODD if u have 0 MS in your inventory. Is it really that hard to understand that only thing what DE wants from us are active Clans?

It may be 5x 20 waves of ODD if the runs are made with boosters and a full-meta loot squad, content shouldn't be based around a setup like that.

Try over 12x that amount if you're running a baseline setup that DE should be using for balance purposes, and even that's assuming your clan is full for its tier and full of active players that all want to endure that grind for a single weapon.

For players in solo clans, and there are many such clans, you're looking at over 120x the effort.

3 hours ago, rudman88 said:

If you just plain lazy jsut join a clan that has it. quit and come back to you original clan

It has nothing to do with being lazy, I've already done the grind, I let people join my clan and get the Hema for free.

I still think the costs should be lowered to something more sensible.

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

1. their reasoning was mutagen sample is the most item that a player has in their database. Which means that 500 mutagen sample is the average / majority people have in their inventory. Fromt he past, mutagen sample drop a lot in ODD. All the while most weapon can be made in a day with little farming. This is where they made the mistake that most active players are vet and screw it up.

You sure that "mutagen sample is the most item that a player has in their database"? Even more than Nano Spores?
Sure, old veterans would get some stockpile of mutagen samples from ODD in the past. What about future joining new players?
Why DE didn't bother showing us the data?

On 05/02/2017 at 11:26 PM, Ditto132 said:

Remember, there was a time when DE wanted to remove Vacuum. One of the reasons being that too many players using Carrier.
And during a devStream, they show a pie chart that visually depict the percentage of players using Carrier.
Where is the Data for Hema related issues?
Where the requested farming Mutagen Samples during Prime Time? Only need an hour to convince me.

You said it yourself, they made the mistake, screw it up.
Their responsibility to resolve this issue properly, not for the players to "suck it up" or "deal with it".

On 24/02/2017 at 0:33 AM, Ditto132 said:

Research requirements
Synapse: 65 Mutagen Samples, 800 Circuits, 3,000 Nano Spores, 1,200 Polymer Bundle, 5,000 Credits
Hema: 5,000 Mutagen Samples, 10,000 Plastids, 45,000 Nano Spores, 50 Neurodes, 5,000 Credits
Shaku: 5,000 Plastids, 10 Neurodes, 11,000 Polymer Bundle, 17,500 Ferrite, 5,000 Credits

Hema research got an increase of

• ~76.9x Mutagen Samples (based on Synapse)
• 15x Nano Spores (based on Synapse)
• 5x Neurodes (based on Shaku)
• No change in Credits cost.

See how absurd the increased Mutagen Samples cost is relative to other research?

If the reason for increase cost is to promote Clan participation, then the increase should be ~10x for a Ghost Clan, making Neurodes and Nano Spores seems reasonable.
But why the Mutagen Samples cost is so high and no increase in Credits cost?
And if the reason is due to player's stockpile, then shouldn't Nano Spores be the higher increased cost instead? And why no change in Credits?

Not to mention the way this issue is being handled very poorly, and now outright ignoring that it existed.
Please fix this issue...

 

---

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

2. To cover for the new players, DE has increased the drop rate of MS in ODD and ODS. I find it fair enough because if have tested and verfied it 500 ++ MS in 5 x 20 run in ODD.

DE did not increase the drop rate. Where did you get your information from?
"It's raining" was their response to not increasing the drop rate.

 

---

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

3. why must you sympathize with this lazy keyboard warriors ? It is out for 2 months and not as if it has time limit. I dont sympathize with beggars because they chose to be one. They can always work it out somehow and especially when there is no restriction from them to do so. 

Are you saying that some of the people who done the unreasonable grind and still advocate changes being lazy keyboard warriors, beggars?

---

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

4. It is an investment. If you think it is bad dont invest on it. You can farm it at your own pace and 1 year later buy it. Go and invest in the things you find worth investing.

I doubt that any sane players would deem this Hema worth the investment at all.

---

1 hour ago, rudman88 said:

5. I am not appeasing anybody but it is a fact that :

A. Is doable 5 hrs of your life to get 500 ms

B. Complaining here and not farming it will not get you anywhere

Really?! Complaining and feedbacks are useless? And that we, the players should just accept this unreasonable mistake?

On 30/01/2017 at 2:10 PM, Ditto132 said:

If that is what you think, this is one of the reasons why violent/terrorism existed.
Complaining is like protesting, voicing/crying out concerns and issues. It is childish, it doesn't work, right?
So, let be adult and try to "fix" it using adult method, start riots, getting violent, throw punches, shoot first and talk later...

Do we really want to get to that point? I don't think anyone would benefit from that.

I would rather people in this thread are able to convince DE to change for the better using "childish" method instead of "mature/adult" death threats/violent/DOS attack method.

On 26/02/2017 at 3:35 PM, Ditto132 said:

Well, since you feel that complaining/feedback or any form of communications are not worth the time.
I'm adding this:
"You know, in the time DE spent on DevStream and Prime Time session, they probably could have ALREADY fixed some bugs, created new contents and polished them. Just saying"

---

Additional resources/reading:

On 31/01/2017 at 11:08 PM, Ditto132 said:

Hopefully, this two links should help you understand the problem better.
The first link shows the inconsistency of Hema cost compared with other research costs with visual aids (Appreciate the effort @Flirk2 put into creating them).
The second link gives more insight into resource costs, some history to put things into perspective and more.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/744013-hema-final-word-no-mutagen-drop-or-cost-change/?page=20#comment-8298944

http://www.tennoclocknews.com/analysis-of-resource-costs/

[Volinus7]

2 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

"Respecting players' investment" of time or in-game resources is a ridiculous idea; if balance changes need to happen then they should happen, and no refunds are necessary. Players (should) expect changes to happen in persistent online games and we don't need to be 'protected' from them, we're not babies.

I farmed the resources for the Hema, solo, the costs should still be changed. I'd rather DE 'rsespect' me by making the best game they can for everyone and not worrying about or being held hostage by players' decisions and past actions.

Even there's no player who demands 'respect' or 'compensation' the game will still be held hostage by monetizaion. I still speculate that why this game will never have challenging or fair difficulty is because DE want this game to sit on the top of bell shaped graph. 'Best game for everyone' is only applicable when everyone have the same personality same IQ and same taste.

Ridiculous grinding in WF is just another testament of financial skinner box. If they move all monetization to cosmetic items, they can adjust the grinding level to be less severe. Skinner's box is the way that money and satisfaction go hand in hand because it conditions players to 'love spending time and money' so satisfaction is achieved by filling progression bar, getting items and spending money rather than a fun gameplay.

Their goal is making the best game? I don't know but many of their actions of the past year seemed to be "deliberately hogging playtime and squeezing wallets" to me.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Volinus7

[ChuckMaverick]

36 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Even there's no player who demands 'respect' or 'compensation' the game will still be held hostage by monetizaion. I still speculate that why this game will never have challenging or fair difficulty is because DE want this game to sit on the top of bell shaped graph. 'Best game for everyone' is only applicable when everyone have the same personality same IQ and same taste.

Ridiculous grinding in WF is just another testament of financial skinner box. If they move all monetization to cosmetic items, they can adjust the grinding level to be less severe. Skinner's box is the way that money and satisfaction go hand in hand because it conditions players to 'love spending time and money' so satisfaction is achieved by filling progression bar, getting items and spending money rather than a fun gameplay.

Their goal is making the best game? I don't know but many of their actions of the past year seemed to be "deliberately hogging playtime and squeezing wallets" to me.

I know you like to make this argument over and over, but it's not relevant to my comment and you're taking it out of context.

My point was that if DE want to make a change they feel is good for the game (however 'good' is defined), then they should just do it.

DE feeling that their creative freedom is restricted because some players will be upset is not good for anyone, game design decisions should be made without considering player 'investment' because ultimately all players want the game to be successful and have a long life.

If DE feel they have to give 'compensation' of some sort (like with the current proposed weapon nerfs) then fine, whatever; but they should never hold back from making changes that they feel will benefit the game overall.

[Tsardova]

6 hours ago, rudman88 said:

 

1. their reasoning was mutagen sample is the most item that a player has in their database. Which means that 500 mutagen sample is the average / majority people have in their inventory. Fromt he past, mutagen sample drop a lot in ODD. All the while most weapon can be made in a day with little farming. This is where they made the mistake that most active players are vet and screw it up.

 

2. To cover for the new players, DE has increased the drop rate of MS in ODD and ODS. I find it fair enough because if have tested and verfied it 500 ++ MS in 5 x 20 run in ODD.

 

3. why must you sympathize with this lazy keyboard warriors ? It is out for 2 months and not as if it has time limit. I dont sympathize with beggars because they chose to be one. They can always work it out somehow and especially when there is no restriction from them to do so. 

 

4. It is an investment. If you think it is bad dont invest on it. You can farm it at your own pace and 1 year later buy it. Go and invest in the things you find worth investing.

 

5. I am not appeasing anybody but it is a fact that :

A. Is doable 5 hrs of your life to get 500 ms

B. Complaining here and not farming it will not get you anywhere

 

 

 

 

Regarding whether how usefull a weapon is it purely depends on your preference and play style. Now with riven in palce even trash weapon can be great.

1.   .... Ok... what?... source?

2. Yes OD is a good place to farm em per se but rng is still rng. I've stated my standing on how some people complain on the drop rate for MS in general and I've likewise directed them to OD nodes to farm them. Fact of the matter is, 5000 in totality is still significantly going overboard compared to the rest of the arsenal in the game that requires research. No two ways about it, just facts. It's especially a headache from those who run a solo clan.

3. Cause why not? and what makes them keyboard warriors again? Now you're just being rude for no reason aside from inner stigma against this perceived laziness. All the people I've met ingame who complain in the forums about the requirements are indeed the ones who ALREADY did their farming and made the weapon but they understood that the set requirement and what they got in the end doesn't justify DE's inability to rectify their mistake in the first place.

4. It's an investment yes, did we who already grinded our asses off to make the weapon by now know it would be a bad investment? Nope. Case in point, we assumed it will be good based on the absurd requirement for it but it ended up being underwhelming. That in itself provides me and those who ALREADY invested in the weapon prior to this discussion valid points to complain about the weapon having such a steep requirement.

5. A. Not everyone has the luxury of time like you do. All your argument has been "My experience"/ "Why should I sympathize with others?", and you even go to teh extent of assuming people's intention and calling them out as lazy for no apparent reason.

B. Already made my Hema, dissatisfied by it considering the time and effort I put into it, hence I'm here. 

Saying you shouldn't sympathize with others only further point out how irrelevant your argument in the this scene since it is a widely accepted debate that the Hema's cost is too much of an asking price. We're in the same shoes, we made the investment and it's a bad one. The difference being you chose to be ignorant of other's possible predicament and turn a blind eye on how DE's questionable design choice can affect the game's longevity. Again... get off your high horse....

P.s. once you use riven as your argument....it's comical at best considering the double rng attached to it.

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Tsardova

[Loswaith]

On 3/16/2017 at 6:34 AM, Ditto132 said:

The idea is that since there are more people in the Clan, thus more "helping hands", it would require less time to get the research done.

If this was the case, would it not actually be just as easy to get the research materials as it is for smaller clans.  The issue is that you don't have more of those 'helping hands' in larger clans, you actually have relatively fewer hands providing help.

The key is not so much to exclude larger clans from research goals (which is what high costs tend to do), but let them trade increased time for fewer resources.  Fewer materials to start research but the research taking more time because of those fewer materials. Add to that the ability to have research take less time with the more resources donated by the clan itself (so representation of more "helping hands" working for the research).

The major benefit of larger clans is having more like minded people to easily call on to play with.

[Tsardova]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

We are speaking about resources needed for research and not between weapons them self, right?

I went to another town for great job, rent a flat, but deal with owner ended. Should i cry? No, I go and found a house for rent, but it's for 10 persons. Should I compare with previous flat, because the rent is 10x higher? No, because I will loose my job. Nvm I made my own  decision to work harder and longer to cover rent alone. I worked 13hrs/day and 2hrs cost me journey to job, so I get idea to buy a car, ups, I discovered that I have no money for that because 4/5 of my money income goes to rent and that the idea hits me: Halo it's house for 10 people. I found another 9 people and now work less harder, have free time, because I'm not dead tired from work and finally I bought a car.

Solo Clan: absolutely absurd connection, Clan is more then 4 people, iirc, and it's players own decision as mine to pay a rent for 10 people, so I have no idea why u still stick underneath the nose this argument.

 

Okay tough guy, here's the thing, your story is a real life scenario; where you HAVE to make compromises regardless of whether you like them or not. You CAN make comparison with your previous accommodations but it is what it is and it's not an innate mistake made by anyone. You get to where you are by your own choice given the circumstances set by landlords etc who are bound by legal terms to  at least provide you with what they promised. Chances are you had reference on whether or not said accommodation will suit your preference/ investment too or not.

With the Hema case? We were given a false perception that the weapon would be astoundingly good considering the investment required for it. Some people back then admitted their skepticism about the absurd level required investment to make it but me and my mates just went along with DE's terms. We made it, it's super underwhelming considering the time and effort we put into it. We had no reference on whether or not it was going to be good or not despite the requirement. 

We were in the blind, and for those of us who did the farming and found out the weapon is a waste of our time, it gives us enough reason to voice our concerns to DE regarding their questionable design choices.
 

You can go on all day long trying to argue your standpoint in defending DE's design choice in the Hema, fact of the matter is it's a badly designed game that pretty much sums up the worst aspect of the game tenfold. We understood the grind is indeed part of the game, it's the core of it even, but the Hema stretched it too far for some people.

 

And no, solo clans are relevant here. Same as how the ignis wraith requirement was deemed absurd prior to the patch in the event just then. Just because you are in a different standpoint doesn't mean all others are irrelevant. It's the players own decision yes but when said player turns out to be your friend and they do voice their concern on the matter then you can as well pitch in their concern. It's MY choice to stick my nose in this piece.

To that end, they rectified the problem for the ignis wraith as far as solo clans are concerned, why couldn't they with the Hema? 

Regardless of our rl stories, they're irrelevant. We're just random strangers voicing our own opinions online. No one is any better than the other. Your opinion is just as important as my mate's opinion same as the others and mine. Hence we're here.