Kotsender_Quasimir Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, ChuckMaverick said: Yet again, there is no evidence so far that I have seen suggesting that Hema sales are any higher than for any previous weapon. they themselves claimed it sold at least comparatively better than former gear available through clan research. they didn't provide evidence, but why would they lie about it? if anything claiming the opposite would make more sense as a justification, non? 18 minutes ago, Zornito said: Thus the price of the hema don't impact on those plats being here or not. it does passively since that very amount of plat is gone from trade circulation forever once spent in the market, it can only be compensated by being purchased again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: 9 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said: Yet again, there is no evidence so far that I have seen suggesting that Hema sales are any higher than for any previous weapon. they themselves claimed it sold at least comparatively better than former gear available through clan research. they didn't provide evidence, but why would they lie about it? if anything claiming the opposite would make more sense as a justification, non? Rebecca stated that Hema sales and crafts were about equal, compared to other weapons where crafts were higher than sales. But given the extra effort required to research and craft the Hema, it makes more sense to assume that is from lower crafts of the Hema rather than higher sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said: Yet again, there is no evidence so far that I have seen suggesting that Hema sales are any higher than for any previous weapon. Trending/Analytics will provide them feedback soon enough and DE probably outsources it. My point is that the low-key demonization has to stop for progress to happen. "If you buy the Hema/Nidus bundle you are a traitor." "DE is doing this out of pure greed and not for the long-term financial health of the game." "DE doesn't care about our gameplay experience." "People who actually have time to research all the requirements must not have real jobs or real lives, and they want to criticize ME?" "People criticizing Hema requirements are ignorant about how business and revenues work." And on and on to support your side of the argument with open mouths and closed eyes and ears... Let's be productive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "If you buy the Hema/Nidus bundle you are a traitor." surely doesn't have anything to do with "treason" but if you do so you do justify the design choice, for better or worse. 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "DE is doing this out of pure greed and not for the long-term financial health of the game." the game got gold sale status on steam without such ridiculous farm walls. we're not talking about some idealistic little indie dev team "needing to eat" anymore. 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "DE doesn't care about our gameplay experience." i can't remember this argument showing up in the discussion concerning hema. they obviously do, although somtimes they seem to have somwhat inconsistenct visions of just how that experience should look in particular... 5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "People who actually have time to research all the requirements must not have real jobs or real lives, and they want to criticize ME?" well... it is less casual friendly to achieve, tho, compared to what we were used to, fact. make of that what you will. 9 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "People criticizing Hema requirements are ignorant about how business and revenues work." well, i guess both fronts did very well get it was a strategic decision and not a "mistake" by now... 9 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: Let's be productive! you mean like like dropping a bomb like this then going on vacation? people get emotional over this matter not so much because of the cost itself, i think, but the shady communication concerning it from official side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: My point is that the low-key demonization has to stop for progress to happen. "If you buy the Hema/Nidus bundle you are a traitor." "DE is doing this out of pure greed and not for the long-term financial health of the game." "DE doesn't care about our gameplay experience." "People who actually have time to research all the requirements must not have real jobs or real lives, and they want to criticize ME?" "People criticizing Hema requirements are ignorant about how business and revenues work." And on and on to support your side of the argument with open mouths and closed eyes and ears... Let's be productive! Speaking of arguments and all, you do realize that you're effectively straw-manning and attacking everyone (including ChuckMaverick) that's made valid criticisms of DE's handling of Hemagate and what led up to it, right? Now...let's be productive and avoid resorting to logical fallacies in an attempt to win this debate, mkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: the game got gold sale status on steam without such ridiculous farm walls. we're not talking about some idealistic little indie dev team "needing to eat" anymore. I couldn't agree more with this. Up until the last year, DE's had a good track record with doing F2P right by us while still being able to earn a decent profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: surely doesn't have anything to do with "treason" but if you do so you do justify the design choice, for better or worse. the game got gold sale status on steam without such ridiculous farm walls. we're not talking about some idealistic little indie dev team "needing to eat" anymore. i can't remember this argument showing up in the discussion concerning hema. they obviously do, although somtimes they seem to have somwhat inconsistenct visions of just how that experience should look in particular... well... it is less casual friendly to achieve, tho, compared to what we were used to, fact. make of that what you will. well, i guess both fronts did very well get it was a strategic decision and not a "mistake" by now... you mean like like dropping a bomb like this then going on vacation? people get emotional over this matter not so much because of the cost itself, i think, but the shady communication concerning it from official side... "Bomb" = hyperbole as I stated. The suggestion here is that they knew what they were doing was ethically wrong, so they waited until vacation so they could injure us and run away like cowards/raptors in the "shady" night... ...or maybe they just wanted vacation like everyone else and busted their &#! to get Nidus into the hands of PC users before Christmas as a parting gift and for the economic health of the game for Q4. Edited January 20, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: "Bomb" = hyperbole as I stated. The suggestion here is that they knew what they were doing was ethically wrong, so they waited until vacation so they could injure us and run away like cowards/raptors in the "shady" night... bomb may be a drastic word, but the rise of research cost was pretty drastic, too... i don't want to paint the devs as "evil" and the players as some kind of "victims". neither do i want to begrudge anyone their quality time. but actually yeah, personally i do believe there was a strategy behind it. but that's pure speculation and not really the point. thing is even if it was just a coincidence it looked rather irresponsible. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 10 minutes ago, MirageKnight said: I couldn't agree more with this. Up until the last year, DE's had a good track record with doing F2P right by us while still being able to earn a decent profit. Again, you have to be careful, here. Without any real information, the suggestion is that DE has suddenly turned to short-sighted greed at the expense of players' and the game's long-term health. Because the Hema is too much work to farm. We have no idea about the current financial health of the game (profits vs costs) or where it is trending. I can assure you that as a business, long-term profits that are tied to a growing, paying satisfied customer base are at the forefront of the decision-making process. Not short-sited greed. This is not to say that companies don't make mistakes. That is why productive discourse is a vital part of the process and DE shows that with these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venon23 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 On 02/01/2017 at 8:50 AM, LuckyCharm said: more to the point.. why are they worried about wasting peoples time who already grinded for it.. i spent many many hours farming events all through warframes life and with the event mods and weapons being rereleased for practically no effort with no sorry or compensation why is this weapon the one they back out and say woah not touching that about. its not like its a founders thing ohohohho ppl tend too forget that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venon23 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: they themselves claimed it sold at least comparatively better than former gear available through clan research. they didn't provide evidence, but why would they lie about it? if anything claiming the opposite would make more sense as a justification, non? it does passively since that very amount of plat is gone from trade circulation forever once spent in the market, it can only be compensated by being purchased again. because ppl in my clan all craft the weapon and many clans do it we started too build the weapon in the same day it cames out and many other 10 30 100 clans did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Akeva-Banshee- Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Okay I will post this again. Lets try to avoid backbiting and quoting people to exclusively explain why you think there wrong. We should get back to offering constructive criticism. We don't want this thread shut down do we? Besides having this thread shut down will only give DE an excuse to sidestep this issue, and undermine all the good points and time people put into this thread. I'm a moderator just don't want this thread shut down. Edited January 20, 2017 by -Akeva-Banshee- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said: I can assure you that as a business, long-term profits that are tied to a growing, paying satisfied customer base are at the forefront of the decision-making process. Not short-sited greed. This is not to say that companies don't make mistakes. That is why productive discourse is a vital part of the process and DE shows that with these forums. on this we can agree 100%. and as a matter of fact steve already called the cost a mistake... but we're waiting for a solution for weeks now already. the argument not being able to just reduce the cost is totally at odds with their EULA and numerous decisions made in the past based on it... i'd really like to believe them, but facts like these make it hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Akeva-Banshee- Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) I know this is a little of the point but if DE decides choose an insane resource cost this time what's next an mastery locked frame at MR 20? And let me quess their excuse would be "only for experienced long term players"? Just an example. Edited January 20, 2017 by -Akeva-Banshee- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, -Akeva-Banshee- said: I know this is a little of the point but if DE decides choose an insane resource cost this time what's next an mastery locked frame at MR 20? I don't see them doing that, it doesn't really incentivise buying plat in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Akeva-Banshee- Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, ChuckMaverick said: I don't see them doing that, it doesn't really incentivise buying plat in any way. Re read please updated it as you quoted me. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, -Akeva-Banshee- said: Re read please updated it as you quoted me. :) Sorry, I was being particularly thick, and forgot that plat purchased items bypass the MR requirement. I still don't see them doing that, but I understand your point now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 13 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said: I don't see them doing that, it doesn't really incentivise buying plat in any way. if they could do this with the Hema whats stopping them from doing that ? They know people will still buy it with plat just to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtiSylv Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) So the official statement (unless I misunderstood what was said on the devstream, I may have, take this with a grain of salt) is now that they're not adjusting the drop rates and that we should go to the derelict. Yikes. Edited January 20, 2017 by ArtiSylv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskoni Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, ArtiSylv said: So the official statement is now that they're not adjusting the drop rates and that we should go to the derelict. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ograzzt Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ArtiSylv said: So the official statement is now that they're not adjusting the drop rates and that we should go to the derelict. Yikes. Yes, they literally said just go to the derelicts. I'm extremely dissappointed in DE, but not surprised. Edited January 20, 2017 by ograzzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtiSylv Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Wait, apparently they boosted the rate at which mutagen samples drop in the derelict? Can anyone verify? Was this a misunderstanding on my part or on someone else's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskoni Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Just now, ArtiSylv said: Wait, apparently they boosted the rate at which mutagen samples drop in the derelict? Can anyone verify? Was this a misunderstanding on my part or on someone else's? No, they didn't, Steve simply said mutagen samples practically rain in derelict compared to the "rest of the game" (i.e. Eris, that's the rest of the game in regards to mutagen samples) so go to derelict. Also based on seemingly overwhelming positive feedback in regards to increased clan cooperation they intend to do more "crazy clan stuff" in the future as well. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toafarmer Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 This is a slap in the face. One of the beard guys just said they won't change this on the devstream, just told us to keep grinding ODD. This is a terrible move, since the research cost is abusive and the drop rate is terrible. Eventually we will gather the 370k that we still need in our clan, but I am certainly not buying prime access anymore. Don't feel like supporting a game moving in the "stop having fun and go grind" direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightdragon64 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 they said that they weren't changing it the day it came out, yes they acknowledge that it is a lot to go after but they are going to add better ways of acquiring rare items like mutagen samples... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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