HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[ChuckMaverick]

4 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Guess it takes a lot of will to self delude as to see it as intentional "feigning"...

I'd have to watch the stream to respond on the specific example, but Steve has explicitly stated several times during the stream that something he has said was (to use a phrase from another thread) 'roleplaying' as a new player.

I guess he felt the need to state that because he knew exactly this type of accusation would arise.

[Naskoni]

11 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I'd have to watch the stream to respond on the specific example, but Steve has explicitly stated several times during the stream that something he has said was (to use a phrase from another thread) 'roleplaying' as a new player.

I guess he felt the need to state that because he knew exactly this type of accusation would arise.

So you have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about, yet make claims as to the contrary of people that do. Seems to happen relatively often with you...

[MirageKnight]

1 hour ago, Angary said:

A high markup is justified because someone can afford it.

A high markup is typically justified by people that can easily afford it and who could care less about those who are unable to afford it.

[ChuckMaverick]

39 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

So you have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about, yet make claims as to the contrary of people that do.

I didn't make any claims, merely stated that Steve often feigned ignorance during his stream and to be careful of taking any of those comments too literally.

41 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Seems to happen relatively often with you...

Well, now we've established that I didn't do that in this case, would you care to point out anywhere I have?

It should be easy, after all you claim I do it 'relatively often'.

[Naskoni]

5 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I didn't make any claims, merely stated that Steve often feigned ignorance during his stream and to be careful of taking any of those comments too literally.

Well, now we've established that I didn't do that in this case, would you care to point out anywhere I have?

It should be easy, after all you claim I do it 'relatively often'.

You mean like having to actually watch his stream as to know what others are even talking about? As in one of the biggest facepalm moments so far? Yeah, right...

Claiming how DE "earns" money for plat but only when said plat is being spent in the shop (and here I thought they charge people's credit cards the moment they buy said plat)

Or how ghost clans have it hardest when it comes to farming the necessary mutagen samples as opposed to moon clans which obviously have it as easy as it gets? Never been in a moon clan, right? (rhetorical quesion)

Off the top of my head.

[-Akeva-Banshee-]

6 hours ago, Marasago said:

It occurred to me that there is a true classic of advertisement out there which strangely reminded me of the recent developments of our game. I took some inspiration (liberal use here) from it and in my time not playing Warframe I came up with this - my way of expressing my perception of the current spirit of Warframe :)

 

If I could read this I would rate up.

 

[Naskoni]

4 minutes ago, -Akeva-Banshee- said:

If I could read this I would rate up.

 

Click the link...

[-Akeva-Banshee-]

Oh Tremendous facepalm ensues.

 

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, Naskoni said:

You mean like having to actually watch his stream as to know what others are even talking about? As in one of the biggest facepalm moments so far? Yeah, right...

I had the stream on my second monitor while I was playing Warframe, so I'd have to go and watch it again to be sure of the facts of this specific example.

I generally like to be sure of the facts before making definite claims, there'd be much less misinformation on the forum if everyone did the same.

1 minute ago, Naskoni said:

Claiming how DE "earns" money for plat but only when said plat is being spent in the shop (and here I thought they charge people's credit cards the moment they buy said plat)

It looks like you're getting confused between 'receiving' and 'earning', but don't worry, it can be a tricky subject and it's not for everyone.

2 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Or how ghost clans have it hardest when it comes to farming the necessary mutagen samples as opposed to moon clans which obviously have it as easy as it gets? Never been in a moon clan, right? (rhetorical quesion)

I stated that solo ghost clans had the highest amount of samples required per player (5000), which is true.

Moon clans require at most 1661 per player, unless their membership has fallen to mountain clan levels, and then they can easily downsize without having to kick anyone.

2 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Off the top of my head.

Keep trying, I'm sure you'll find one eventually.

[Naskoni]

39 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I had the stream on my second monitor while I was playing Warframe, so I'd have to go and watch it again to be sure of the facts of this specific example.

I generally like to be sure of the facts before making definite claims, there'd be much less misinformation on the forum if everyone did the same.

It looks like you're getting confused between 'receiving' and 'earning', but don't worry, it can be a tricky subject and it's not for everyone.

I stated that solo ghost clans had the highest amount of samples required per player (5000), which is true.

Moon clans require at most 1661 per player, unless their membership has fallen to mountain clan levels, and then they can easily downsize without having to kick anyone.

Keep trying, I'm sure you'll find one eventually.

I see you are really good at "feigning" stuff yourself...

[Slaviar]

49 minutes ago, -Akeva-Banshee- said:

If I could read this I would rate up.

 

Unless I screwed up in translation, it says "Steve Sinclair's about to make you his farmgirl. Suck it up."

[Defmoon]

I agree, the drop rate still needs to be increased, not drastically. Maybe 50-75%, I did 15 waves in ODD and got 16, with double resources. I have 27 players in my dojo, If 20 people ran ODD without double resources they would have to run it 500 times all together to get the the 5k we have left. If we still had the 14k from the start if people didnt already have years worth of build up we would have to ran it 1400 times all together and thats after they increased it if they did. Thats 350 waves per person at .5 mutagen sample a wave. 

[Salenstormwing]

Don't worry guys... here's the Warframe Hema Trailer!

Seems fairly accurate....

_{Anyone got 225 plat to spare?}

[Zookes]

9 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

As you say, "Who knows?", because DE certainly didn't give any reason for the exceptional resource costs of the Hema when it was introduced.

In all subsequent discussions Steve has spoken of his desire that players should have to put some effort in to get the Hema, and not be able to get it immediately from stockpiles. His explanations haven't referenced clan cooperation or structure at all, that I can recall.

When is the last time a subject of social engineering was happy to hear they were manipulated like this?

This being the goal, it will not be said. Who knows tho if this is the goal.

[Ciaus]

49 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Don't worry guys... here's the Warframe Hema Trailer!

Seems fairly accurate....

_{Anyone got 225 plat to spare?}

I lol'd. 
Repeatedly.
Also I have the plat. 
I'm going to let it gather interest though ^^

[ChuckMaverick]

1 hour ago, Salenstormwing said:

Don't worry guys... here's the Warframe Hema Trailer!

Seems fairly accurate....

_{Anyone got 225 plat to spare?}

Hah, it was an amusing parody.

But seriously, most of those end-of-mission screens were from non-endless, and even the endless runs didn't go as far as 20 waves/minutes, of course the number of mutagen samples was low.

[SnuggleBuckets]

8 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Hah, it was an amusing parody.
But seriously, most of those end-of-mission screens were from non-endless, and even the endless runs didn't go as far as 20 waves/minutes, of course the number of mutagen samples was low.

Hardly a defense on your part, don't you think? Given how many have already voiced their complaints of the fact that you're reduced to a couple of repetitive nodes on the Derelict to farm, ODD & ODS...

Edited January 23, 2017 by SnuggleBuckets
typo

[Telogor]

In all of my 2884 hours Warframe, I've only obtained a stockpile of just over 1k Mutagen Samples (mostly because I hate ODD, ODS, and Infested in general).  This is bullcrap of the highest order.

[ChuckMaverick]

19 minutes ago, SnuggleBuckets said:

Hardly a defense on your part, don't you think? Given how many have already voiced their complaints of the fact that you're reduced to a couple of repetitive nodes on the Derelict to farm, ODD & ODS...

A defence on my part, how?

I think you're under the mistaken impression that I support the resource costs.

I have been against them from the beginning, but all the hyperbole and disingenuous arguments that are being thrown around don't help our position.

[SnuggleBuckets]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

I have been against them from the beginning, but all the hyperbole and disingenuous arguments that are being thrown around don't help our position.

Fair point, carry on.

[Volinus7]

1 hour ago, Zookes said:

When is the last time a subject of social engineering was happy to hear they were manipulated like this?

This being the goal, it will not be said. Who knows tho if this is the goal.

"Social Engineering" and "manipulate", gotta like these two terms they represent the whole past year of wf perfectly. 

Poke with Vacuum > Grinding capabilities disturbed > riots and death threats 

Poke with relics > plat value inflated > no AH, no graph, no solid proofs

Poke with riven > Embraced pRNG instead of voluntary choice just because vets need a life time supply of something to click on and don't really care about game structure or balance. 

Poke with cysts > Fashion disturbed > not that much reaction (oh you can see almost no thread merging)

Poke with Sibear,VaubanP,Hema > How far can these hamsters endure the increasing hamster wheels speed? > 100x speed seems to be fine (no bias duh)

People who don't like these just left the game, how playerbase will be under the selection? 

Just your everyday forum argument

 

[(PSN)Kop_Fan09]

The cost for hema research is crazily stupid.. I played a lot of odd and ods since I started the game (nearly 3 years ago) and over that time I pretty much always had boosters running thanks to prime accessories but (whilst I know this is more than many) I only had 6300 mutagen samples... that's for nearly 3 years of playing the game and running a lot of odd as that's where I used to go to level my equipment up.

In the click of a button those resources that I invested my time in gathering were gone.. funniest part? My clan still needs another 41000 mutagen samples to research the weapon and it's not as simple as "get other members to contribute" because those members range from mr1-mr23. In the case of lower and less experienced players they still require mutagen samples to build mutagen masses (I think? It's been a long time!!) and therefore is unreasonable to ask them to dump the majority if not all their samples into 1 weapon.

 

The cost is seriously out of proportion to the rest of the research and really needs to be re-evaluated by DE. 

Up until recently I always supported the game (as previously stated with prime accessories) because it was a choice whereas nowadays, it feels like we're on the brink of pay to win.. something I don't and won't support.

 

Im all for resource sinks but there are better ways to implement them, as suggested by many other players. 

 

What will the next research require? 

Is it fair to wipe out a persons resources almost instantly that they have spent many many hours gathering? 

People are saying that we should "earn it" "invest time and gather it" but that is exactly what Long time players have been doing over the years!!

 

Hopefully DE will rectify the situation and not just leave it as "it won't happen again" because quite frankly, that's not good enough.

Edited January 24, 2017 by (PS4)Kop_Fan09
Corrected mutagen samples still needed

[taiiat]

15 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

because they don't see a problem.

outside of Hema, Mutagen rates in Eris vs Derelict are massively diffeent, and even in a vacuum that's still poo.

Clantech Resources are much more common in EVERY other location in the game except for Eris.

[WWWClanDojoHostBot]

The mutagen requirement of Hema research was badly set. Evading the community's complains for more than a month, another bad decision. These are another 2 nails to the coffin of the game. Why?

I'm a clan admin, we have a very friendly, helpful, play together clan, but the rotation of players are still high. The player keeping power of the game is low, because people come and amazed by the crazy good start of the game, but after some weeks it becomes flat, too much repetitve content. What you do to resolve this problem?

Adding more visual content and the same repetitive content in different cape, saying the mutagen farm will unite the clan members. Oh, nooooooooooooo!

You assume 80-90% of a clan is active, but most clans have only about 30% stable player base (20% I play sometimes kind, 50% rotates) and the 30% makes the researches, you will burn these ppl out by pushing them to repeat the same boring stuff 200 times, clans will fall, game may fall.

 

[John89brensen]

7 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Hah, it was an amusing parody.

But seriously, most of those end-of-mission screens were from non-endless, and even the endless runs didn't go as far as 20 waves/minutes, of course the number of mutagen samples was low.

Yeah its clearly exaggerated, but its not like if you go endless you are gonna get a ton of them. I went to an ODD round with both a Nekros and a Hydroid and got around 70 ms in 30 waves. It would take me around 2100 more roudns of ODD at an average of 70 ms. 

Eve if we gather all the veterans in my clan, who like me, dont seem to give much of a damn about this kind of grind, it would still take hours upon hours, much more than the "500" a piece DE claims. God, they live in a world of fantasy if they think all clans are 100% active, or want 100% to spend an entire afternoon doing ODD.

I would be fine if Hema asked for 5k as a crafting requirement, i'd be pissed, but i would do the same thing i did for Sibear, just play the game and if i ever get the resources i'd craft it. Not go out of my way for hours and hours for 1 weapon. But if Hema is on the Bio Lab, who's to say tomorrow is not a mandatory requirement for future tech? DE has neither confirmed nor denied this, and given the string of changes of heart throughout 2016, even if they say Hema is not gonna be a requirement, i wouldnt hold my breath.

Edited January 24, 2017 by John89brensen