HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[kaliazane]

6 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

so is kuva fortress. since it's introduction it's been there just for cleaning the nodes and nothing. 'working on it' is still no content.

excessive or not, are you saying grind for one weapon is content?

Having mutagen samples on grineer map kinda wouldn't fit the theme.

Warframe is grind.

[plexus_brachialis]

Just now, ViS4GE said:

Having mutagen samples on grineer map kinda wouldn't fit the theme.

Warframe is grind.

i was just saying, plenty empty spaces. is de gonna force us to play each one for one specific thing in the future to make us 'play the game'? they tried to cut on the empty nodes with SotR rework and it didn't really work because there is nothing worthwhile to do/get in most places. shouldn't rebalancing that be enough content and reason to play more? if i must grind, at least give me options. i don't care if drop chance for thing is 0,1% if there is 10 different places i can grind from. 

[Flirk2]

8 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

they also stated they wanna put more emphasis on clans. How else would they do that? only through research cost.

So, that whole thing with custom made obstacle courses, clan-sponsored missions, return of the dark sector conflict in some way... All that talk was for nothing?

All they can do to put emphasis on the clan is to put insanely high research costs and say ''suck it up''?

I guess I was too much of an optimist then...

12 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

How is casual a swear word ? It's your choice to buy or not buy boosters,

Nope. Read the thread if you don't believe me. Almost every Hema advocate here makes ''casual'' remarks in almost every post they make.

And no, you, yourself, bring the booster affected meta-farming squad as an example of ''grind being manageable''.

And it's you who think that 25 missions of 20 waves ODD with a meta-farming squad worth of mutagen samples is a reasonable price for one research item in the ghost clan.

Without boosters same squad will need 100 missions like that.

That's 33.3 man hours.

''Longer'' doesn't begin to describe it.

As with no boosters you'll need to find 4 times more matches for that meta squad for an unpopular location. When even those 25 missions will take a while in recruiting tab.

20 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

It was literally nothing and presonally I don't think it should be that way

It was not ''literally nothing''.

Look what ''literally'' means:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

It's 170 hours of playing in the game that has an average play time of about 70 hours:

https://steamspy.com/app/230410

People with more than 1000 hours are not those who devs should focus on. And they didn't. Until recently.

24 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Let's say that Hema had no cost, like almost all other weapons. U'd get it and log off and that would be it till next update

No.

But let's say Hema base cost was in-line with everything else in the Bio Lab?

70 mutagen samples for ghost clan. (5 more than the previous maximum)

I would start building it in 3 days that the research takes.

I would have it built at about the same time I had Nidus built.

I would level it up and forget about it, like I did yesterday.

Then I would play the game same way I played it before Hema. The same way I'll play it from now on.

But without Hema Trauma.

23 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Just out of curiosity how much time is that?

I have about 1950 hour on my profile. The game's counter seems to take only mission time, so it's quite accurate.

23 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

But i can imagine that for new smaller clans, is also an uphill battle, considering all the things you have to farm for in this game.

That's the thing.

I had to go and farm mutagen samples before Hema for the new account. Because they drop with 1% chance on Derelicts (where no one went for anything but corrupted mods after SoR) and with about 0.1% on Eris. They drop on Eris less than neurodes...

I funded the Javlok research without farming detonite and only after putting 1000 in and having about 600 left, I noticed that the amount is insanely higher than anything else in the lab.

Then DE showed me what is truly an insane amount with the Hema 5000.

19 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I'd say samples will be enough of a reason to go there

Never was. Never will be.

For those to be enough reason to go there Hema needs to have about 10x damage, 3x crit chance, AOE explosion without self-damage and an automatic alt-fire mode.

Tiberon is a solid weapon till level 30's. Better than Burston Prime. It was the first weapon I put a catalyst in. (Used a 3 forma boltor before that...) Why? Because I looked at the stats and was drawn to it's high damage.

As a new player I wouldn't even look in Hema direction if it's blueprint was in the market and it needed resources that drop before Jupiter.

Farming derelicts for hundreds of hours to get that? It seems you totally forgot how new players think.

[Ditto132]

1 hour ago, plexus_brachialis said:

but DE has always frowned upon on efficient farming squads and tactics because it's not 'playing the game'. and now we are explicitly encouraged to do that because it's somehow playing the game.

1 hour ago, ViS4GE said:

People "meta squad" farm everything else, from credits to endo in arena. I don't get why suddenly it's not acceptable, as stated previously you are free to do it any way you want, just don't be surprised that it takes slower. 

Did they ? all I see on recruiting channel are people making as efficient parties as possible, just because they don't like wasting time.

Here you go, the contradiction:

On 24/01/2017 at 1:17 PM, AM-Bunny said:

This honestly outlines my main problem with the Hema.

I'm perfectly fine with weapons being hard to get, like Sibear. They're not strictly required for any content, so if you don't feel like putting in the work to grind them out, you're not significantly hampered. Same deal with Prime Warframes -- Valkyr Prime farming getting you down? Just get vanilla Valkyr; a few measly stat bumps doesn't radically change her gameplay experience, and Valkyr is just fine. If you really want to 100% collect everything, you should be willing to tackle a few tough cookies. I'm fine with this.

However.

Hema's research cost is only feasible if you run a meta farming group. Hydroid + Nekros (+ optionally Boosters). I recall back in Shadow Debt, people started causing a stir about how loot-manipulating powers were forcing players to use Nekros and Ivara against Misery for his drops, and how loot powers were generally unhealthy for the game. The devs responded saying that all the drops they put in the game are under the assumption that players are playing without loot powers, and  those exist purely as an option to speed up the process. This is completely untrue for the Hema, which was clearly intended to be obtained through meta loot farming runs. 

To me, this is a really troubling thought and ill conceived design mindset.

[kaliazane]

9 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

So, that whole thing with custom made obstacle courses, clan-sponsored missions, return of the dark sector conflict in some way... All that talk was for nothing?

All they can do to put emphasis on the clan is to put insanely high research costs and say ''suck it up''?

I guess I was too much of an optimist then...

I have no idea, you need to ask them.

9 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Nope. Read the thread if you don't believe me. Almost every Hema advocate here makes ''casual'' remarks in almost every post they make.

And no, you, yourself, bring the booster affected meta-farming squad as an example of ''grind being manageable''.

And it's you who think that 25 missions of 20 waves ODD with a meta-farming squad worth of mutagen samples is a reasonable price for one research item in the ghost clan.

Without boosters same squad will need 100 missions like that.

That's 33.3 man hours.

''Longer'' doesn't begin to describe it.

As with no boosters you'll need to find 4 times more matches for that meta squad for an unpopular location. When even those 25 missions will take a while in recruiting tab.

I don't consider it "meta farming" I consider it normal farming. I would personally not even try to farm for anything without proper setup because I don't like wasting time. If they made it super easy for afk ember without boosters, then proper squad (which basically everyone on recruit chat runs) would completely trivialize it. What 25 mission, you are not supposed to do it solo by design, if you don't like that then socialize a little.

With no boosters you would need to find 2 times more matches, you still benefit from drop chance booster even if someone else have it. Once again, they are obtainable in game for free aswell.

19 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

It was not ''literally nothing''.

Look what ''literally'' means:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

It's 170 hours of playing in the game that has an average play time of about 70 hours:

https://steamspy.com/app/230410

People with more than 1000 hours are not those who devs should focus on. And they didn't. Until recently.

It was literally nothing, it might aswell be 1 credit for a veteran if even guy on fresh account was able to easily research most of his dojo solo.

http://www.k12reader.com/what-is-reading-comprehension/

So you are saying it's not a cash grab after all, because they focus on people who will make them less money ? cool.

22 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

No.

But let's say Hema base cost was in-line with everything else in the Bio Lab?

70 mutagen samples for ghost clan. (5 more than the previous maximum)

I would start building it in 3 days that the research takes.

I would have it built at about the same time I had Nidus built.

I would level it up and forget about it, like I did yesterday.

Then I would play the game same way I played it before Hema. The same way I'll play it from now on.

But without Hema Trauma.

And then you would complain on forum about lack of things to do.

26 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Never was. Never will be.

For those to be enough reason to go there Hema needs to have about 10x damage, 3x crit chance, AOE explosion without self-damage and an automatic alt-fire mode.

Tiberon is a solid weapon till level 30's. Better than Burston Prime. It was the first weapon I put a catalyst in. (Used a 3 forma boltor before that...) Why? Because I looked at the stats and was drawn to it's high damage.

As a new player I wouldn't even look in Hema direction if it's blueprint was in the market and it needed resources that drop before Jupiter.

Farming derelicts for hundreds of hours to get that? It seems you totally forgot how new players think.

"New players who eventually will stop being new" and at that point they will look into farming it. Maybe don't take my sentences out of context next time.

I'm sure these stats are going to happen. I do see H ODD farming parties tho, so looks like it was enough.

As stated many times before, it's not new player weapon and they obviously won't focus on it. What hundreds of hours, you are throwing random numbers into the air.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, DinendalMinyatur said:

 If this is true Warframe is following the path of other F2P games am i right?

I loved Warframe not only game itself is interesting, also it's F2P marketing was more tolerant unlike other F2P games.

Now it's a pity if they really going to force a pseudo-F2P type on players like many other online games do . But I don't think DE will change their marketing that much. I say let's just wait and see what decisions will DE make.

To be fair, if you look at how much Warframe has grown, it's a natural progression and reasonable evolution of their business model. The HEMA IS "sticker shock" but also a stress test.

Quality content is more important than ever as the need for continued, revenue-generating QUANTITY also puts competing demands on DE.

 

[Liminal]

2 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

It is true. Compare january 2015 to january 2016 for example. So it looks like these changes were good after all.
Compare the rest of the months. No it's not.

It's been a while since I saw someone create issues, instead of searching for solutions.
That doesn't mean you didn't strawman the crap out of it.

For veterans it was no cost at all, in a solo ghost clan you could just dump in everything without feeling cost. They changed it because it was dying, slowly but surely. December was TWW update time, so naturally it will have high player count plus there are holidays so people have time to play. Before that people were making threads saying they can't find a party on xbox, or how chat was almost empty.
No, TWW came out in the first half of November. December is often just as active as November (look at ever other year), except for The Second Dream which of course gave it a huge boost in 2015. Warframe was doing better than ever before and there was no need for this ridiculous cost.

 

2 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Hes making too much sense, lets combine our 3 leading complainer strenghts and dismiss valid points as trolling.
I'm not one to often (if ever) accuse others of trolling, but the fact that you are constantly replying with non sequiturs, moving the goalposts and ignoring arguments really makes it hard to think you are here for an honest discussion. Also that "stop complaining and go away" thing (paraphrasing).

And now I'm done. I'll try this ignore function people talk about.

[John89brensen]

1 hour ago, ViS4GE said:

I'd say samples will be enough of a reason to go there, especially considering new players who eventually will stop being new and try to get it making new parties. Is it perfect ? no, no game is perfect. But it's not as bad as few people try to make it look.

Instead of fixing drop tables, or giving interesting rewards, we have to go there for one resource of one research project. If the reason DE made the Hema so expensive is to encourage players to play derelict, then it is a terrible reason. But im pretty sure, that is not the case, this is just DE going after the player stockpiles.

In a farming intensive game, all DE has to offer as gaming mechanic, it seems, is more farming, this time multiplied by 1000. 

15 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

As stated many times before, it's not new player weapon and they obviously won't focus on it.

Yes, Hema is not targeted for new players, but it certainly is not a top-tier endgame weapon. A weapon with stats for mid game, targeted at endgame players, this is the Sibear all over again. But while the Sibear was something you could craft in your foundry, and thus avoid entirely, Hema is clan tech, so its not an invidual problem now, its a communal one. This is one of the reasons the community is so split over Hema. If DE asked me to pay 5k to craft the weapon instead of researching it, i would have no problem, i would ignore the weapon for the better part of the year until i gather the resources. But no, this is specifically targeted at clans.

[kaliazane]

Quote

Compare the rest of the months. No it's not.

Yes it is and it was happening throughout last year.

Quote

That doesn't mean you didn't strawman the crap out of it.

Right back at you, it doesn't mean you didn't went above and beyond creating issues instead of searching for solutions.

Quote

I'm not one to often (if ever) accuse others of trolling, but the fact that you are constantly replying with non sequiturs, moving the goalposts and ignoring arguments really makes it hard to think you are here for an honest discussion. Also that "stop complaining and go away" thing (paraphrasing).

I made few very good arguments that you were not able to beat.

It's all it is.

 

4 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

And now I'm done. I'll try this ignore function people talk about.

Bye.

[Flirk2]

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I have no idea, you need to ask them.

But you said so yourself:

1 hour ago, ViS4GE said:

they also stated they wanna put more emphasis on clans. How else would they do that? only through research cost.

 

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I don't consider it "meta farming" I consider it normal farming.

What's ''meta farming'' for you then? If a meta framing squad with 2 booster is not it? I'm just curious.

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

What 25 mission, you are not supposed to do it solo by design, if you don't like that then socialize a little.

But you are! By design. Or, at least you were. You are able to make a solo clan. You don't need to bring 9 people with you to make a clan of the smallest size, do you?

But now it's expected that you do. That's the whole point of the discussion. Why exactly this change of heart happened?

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

It was literally nothing,

Again. You are using the word wrong. Look:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

So you are saying it's not a cash grab after all, because they focus on people who will make them less money ? cool.

It's not cool. It's a mistake they decided not to correct.

But I never said it was a cash grab. It could have been. But even if it was, it's entirely up to them. Their game and all that.

What I'm against is the lack of consistency. Why is it that Synapse is 65 and Hema (that is actually worse...) is 5000? It makes no sense whatsoever.

And lies akin to ''raining mutagen in Derelict''.

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

And then you would complain on forum about lack of things to do.

Now this is just not nice. Do try and find one post of mine where I complained about lack of things to do. Give a link.

I do not like when people decide for me what I will do or say. Strange, I know.

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I'm sure these stats are going to happen. I do see H ODD farming parties tho, so looks like it was enough.

For a month. And ''I see H ODD'' is not the same as ''I can get into a farming squad in 2 minutes of browsing recruiting tab. You most likely see the same guy posting for about half an hour again and again. I did try to get a squad for ODD by browsing the recruiting chat, you know. Half the time I couldn't get the full team. Other times I didn't have a single loot frame in the squad but the one I was using. And one time I had a Nekros to my Hydroid? He was happily chopping up insested in the corner of the map, completely ignoring that his range was not enough to cover the tentacles...

And I could understand him. I wouldn't want to see those things writhing around myself. If I was not a hydroid at that mission...

32 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

What hundreds of hours, you are throwing random numbers into the air.

No, with 25 ODD for 20 waves (and 20 waves take about 20 minutes even with speed Nova) you are looking at 8.3 hours of infested fun to get 5000 samples. take away the boosters? 33 hours.

Take away Nekros and Hydroid? 66 hours.

Didn't manage to find a full squad? You are looking at a hundred hours easily.

Especially if you add recruiting time.

Then remember you need about 500 for the research before you reach Hema.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Flirk2

[kaliazane]

3 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Instead of fixing drop tables, or giving interesting rewards, we have to go there for one resource of one research project. If the reason DE made the Hema so expensive is to encourage players to play derelict, then it is a terrible reason. But im pretty sure, that is not the case, this is just DE going after the player stockpiles.

In a farming intensive game, all DE has to offer as gaming mechanic, it seems, is more farming, this time multiplied by 1000. 

Well, what else would you do. Lets say you want to introduce 1 harder to get weapon, just bumping up resource cost is the easiest way.

 

6 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Yes, Hema is not targeted for new players, but it certainly is not a top-tier endgame weapon. A weapon with stats for mid game, targeted at endgame players, this is the Sibear all over again. But while the Sibear was something you could craft in your foundry, and thus avoid entirely, Hema is clan tech, so its not an invidual problem now, its a communal one. This is one of the reasons the community is so split over Hema. If DE asked me to pay 5k to craft the weapon instead of researching it, i would have no problem, i would ignore the weapon for the better part of the year until i gather the resources. But no, this is specifically targeted at clans.

I'd say it's more endgame than many others, just because of how it deals with high armor. Personally I never saw much use for Sibear and I never used it since hitting 30 on it whem it was introduced.

Yes they did want to get clans involved, but as long as clan is taken care of as in, it's not moon with 10 members that refuse to downsize. Then it really is managable.

[(PSN)A_SimpleName]

9 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Well, what else would you do. Lets say you want to introduce 1 harder to get weapon, just bumping up resource cost is the easiest way.

Something akin to Dojo Pigments.

• New research resource that provide an even start for everyone.
• No need to have an exorbitant requirement
• Drops from enemies in multiple locations
• Guarantee drops
• Can casually obtain while "enjoying" other contents

What do you think?

[John89brensen]

1 minute ago, ViS4GE said:

Well, what else would you do. Lets say you want to introduce 1 harder to get weapon, just bumping up resource cost is the easiest way.

You could target crafting costs instead of research ones. But like i said, DE could fix their drop tables if they want us to play their game. 

 

3 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I'd say it's more endgame than many others, just because of how it deals with high armor.

Viral is not particularly good against high armor, at least compared with corrosive. In any case, Hema is nowhere near top-tier, so its an overpriced weapon that cant hold a candle to some of the other gear available.

6 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Personally I never saw much use for Sibear and I never used it since hitting 30 on it whem it was introduced.

Thats exactly my point. Sibear has no use, its a wanna be Jat Kittag, but the Jat kitty is undeniably better, in no small part thanks to Vulcan Blits. But  while the Sibear has a high crafting cost, and requires no research, the Hema instead, has an obsenely high cost compared to other Biolab tech, and even compared to its own crafting cost.

9 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Yes they did want to get clans involved, but as long as clan is taken care of as in, it's not moon with 10 members that refuse to downsize. Then it really is managable.

Given the results of the Hema controversy, can DE really claim they incentivize clans? They could have done a lot of other things, including taking measures they already did in the past, like having clans work for event goals. But no, they decided it is the old grind wall. Splitting the community does not seem to be a very good idea to me.

[kaliazane]

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

But you said so yourself:

I told you what I heard from them. For details you need to go to the source.

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

What's ''meta farming'' for you then? If a meta framing squad with 2 booster is not it? I'm just curious.

There is normal farming with proper party and there is efficient farming with proper party and boosters. Or you can play the game solo maybe getting that thing you want and maybe not.

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

But you are! By design. Or, at least you were. You are able to make a solo clan. You don't need to bring 9 people with you to make a clan of the smallest size, do you?

But now it's expected that you do. That's the whole point of the discussion. Why exactly this change of heart happened?

That design change is just something you will have to live with. But hey, if you are such a solo shark you shouldnt have issues getting boosters. What gives ?!

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Again. You are using the word wrong. Look:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/literally

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/figure-of-speech The things you learn online, huh ?

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

It's not cool. It's a mistake they decided not to correct.

But I never said it was a cash grab. It could have been. But even if it was, it's entirely up to them. Their game and all that.

What I'm against is the lack of consistency. Why is it that Synapse is 65 and Hema (that is actually worse...) is 5000? It makes no sense whatsoever.

And lies akin to ''raining mutagen in Derelict''.

I don't think it ever really was a mistake, imo it was planned from beginning.

Why it's not like synapse ? Because they made a choice to increase it and made it harder to get. Nothing wrong with having harder to get weapons.

That raining statement was not a lie, do you want me to post screen again or are we good ? I know I know, but afk ember with no boosters cant get that many. You are right, it can't. It does rain tho if you farm like everyone else.

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Now this is just not nice. Do try and find one post of mine where I complained about lack of things to do. Give a link.

I do not like when people decide for me what I will do or say. Strange, I know.

I probably won't be going through your posts right now, thing is through... people do that. Maybe not you specifically but I've seen it many times.

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

For a month. And ''I see H ODD'' is not the same as ''I can get into a farming squad in 2 minutes of browsing recruiting tab. You most likely see the same guy posting for about half an hour again and again. I did try to get a squad for ODD by browsing the recruiting chat, you know. Half the time I couldn't get the full team. Other times I didn't have a single loot frame in the squad but the one I was using. And one time I had a Nekros to my Hydroid? He was happily chopping up insested in the corner of the map, completely ignoring that his range was not enough to cover the tentacles...

And I could understand him. I wouldn't want to see those things writhing around myself. If I was not a hydroid at that mission...

Funny you mentioned the time required, it took me 2 min to get into the one I took that screen in. Previously I didn't saw any H ODD, so thats 100% increase at least ! I never had issues you just described, but then again I dont farm that much for them. Still it's way better than it used to be.

42 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

No, with 25 ODD for 20 waves (and 20 waves take about 20 minutes even with speed Nova) you are looking at 8.3 hours of infested fun to get 5000 samples. take away the boosters? 33 hours.

Take away Nekros and Hydroid? 66 hours.

Didn't manage to find a full squad? You are looking at a hundred ours easily.

Especially if you add recruiting time.

Then remember you need about 500 for the research before you reach Hema.

Take away joining missions = 10000000 hours !!

What have you done de !

I want to farm while afk on my liset, DE plz make it happen. I feel like it should be possible, because I need it to keep my argument going. Farming like everyone else is so 2016.

Spoiler

 

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[John89brensen]

5 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

I want to farm while afk on my liset, DE plz make it happen. I feel like it should be possible, because I need it to keep my argument going. Farming like everyone else is so 2016.

This is not what we are asking. We are asking for reasonable research costs relative to the weapon we are getting. A 1000% increase in research costs is not reasonable. And just like sitting in any mission with an afk Ember is boring, so is sitting in ODD with a meta squad, and in both cases you hope not to get an epileptic seizure. 

We are asking for balanced engaging mechanics, hard but fair costs, and all we get is repetitive unrewarding missions, meta squads (oh the irony of this), relentless grind. Hema is the latest of this trend. 

Edit: Also you should stop posting that screenshot. Meta squads and boosters only serve to prove how broken and boring MS farming is.

Edited January 31, 2017 by John89brensen

[kaliazane]

19 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

Viral is not particularly good against high armor, at least compared with corrosive. In any case, Hema is nowhere near top-tier, so its an overpriced weapon that cant hold a candle to some of the other gear available.

But what if you combine both viral and corrosive.

http://streamable.com/8su6g

http://streamable.com/ysp71

6 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

This is not what we are asking. We are asking for reasonable research costs relative to the weapon we are getting. A 1000% increase in research costs is not reasonable. And just like sitting in any mission with an afk Ember is boring, so is sitting in ODD with a meta squad, and in both cases you hope not to get an epileptic seizure. 

We are asking for balanced engaging mechanics, hard but fair costs, and all we get is repetitive unrewarding missions, meta squads (oh the irony of this), relentless grind. Hema is the latest of this trend. 

Edit: Also you should stop posting that screenshot. Meta squads and boosters only serve to prove how broken and boring MS farming is.

In other words you are asking for perfect game, personally I don't think its going to happen. But this is feedback section after all.

Honestly farming for anything is rather boring, which is why doing it efficiently is my choice.

Edited January 31, 2017 by ViS4GE

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

6 hours ago, ViS4GE said:

Reality check for everyone complaining here : Nothing will change, you are wasting your time.

 

No one here is obligate to agree neither accept DE decisions as DE do not have any power to keep player base to do whatever DE want because the final decision will be always from us to agree/disagree or continue playing or not, to argument/complain or whatever as long is inside the rules.

Who is DE without all those player playing the game? Nobody so DE need to hear us all if i act like a passive person to just make DE more anti-player yet? Hell no!

I repeat, as long is inside the rules: we are free to choice whatever we believe is right so is waste of your time trying to negate our rights.

You want to have fun? Go have it while we will continue doing whats is our right: freedom of expression.

[Liminal]

17 minutes ago, -WBA-Spriggan.EX said:

You want to have fun? Go have it while we will continue doing whats is our right: freedom of expression.

We don't actually have that right in a private forum, but as long as we respect DE's rules we are free to give our opinion. That's why we have to be civil and respectful. Coherence is welcome too :P

[MagPrime]

28 minutes ago, -WBA-Spriggan.EX said:

-snip-.

You want to have fun? Go have it while we will continue doing whats is our right: freedom of expression.

Funnily enough, this is a private forum owned and operated by a company in another country.  Any "rights" we have here are granted at DE's whim and easily changed.  The only true freedom you have is not posting here.

And if you're referring to the US's idea of freedom of expression, that only keeps you safe from the US Government from doing something to you, not a private company/person.

[KIREEK]

Sadly, the trolls here are the guys who dismiss facts (screenshots or vast experience from other players), bring unrelated content to debate (rivens among other things) to justify the unfair cost of Hema.

You can't just dismiss a player who has made the effort in understanding why some players find hema costs to high, in some cases even without boosters or meta teams, the cost seems very reasonable but it does require some gameplay (that some consider way to high), obviously some players will already have that gameplay done because they hunted down corrupted mods, did hives, killed enemies, tried to get nekros and so on, the other ones are going in poretty much fresh into this and so they need from the ground up get the samples, sometimes over the 500 required because they need to compensate for something in the clan they manage or like to be in..

We do our share of effort in lowering the efficiency, we know it is possible to be 5x less efficient, the issue that many seem to bring up is that they are very inefficient and at the same time they are somehow in a solo clan, making the grind way above what is acceptable because they need to play for ages.

All of this is easily fixed by changing the attitude of said player and you can combine this with minimal gameplay, a few pages back and 1 and a halh hours over the course of 3 weeks was to much for some and i find that very unreasonable and so does DE, you are not invested into the game if you play like that and you can't certainly make demands of less grind when you barely play the game.

If that is the case, a sortie mission pack is to much aswell because the player plays a single mission per week as opposed to 3 missions a day, i mean, make an effort, i know you guys can do WAY more than what you currently do, i know the tipical player complaining here makes an effort next to nill when it comes to hema, but requesting even less effort from your part or the clan is like asking no gameplay at all.

This will be the trend from DE right now, at a certain point DE released new resources to make players come back and play, they can't do that forever so increasing the costs was the right aproach, all i can tell you is that i gathered way more samples than the ones i will ever need and i did this without grinding for said samples, this means most of the gameplay i do is in places where mutagens do not drop, instead other resources drop.

If DE calculates a fair amount of fieldron samples for the next research, watch out guys, i'm serious.

This obviously doesn't affect the players who don't plan on contributing or the ones that barely play, in these cases you won't miss a thing.

Edited February 1, 2017 by KIREEK

[Chipputer]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Something akin to Dojo Pigments.

• New research resource that provide an even start for everyone.
• No need to have an exorbitant requirement
• Drops from enemies in multiple locations
• Guarantee drops
• Can casually obtain while "enjoying" other contents

What do you think?

As someone who is perfectly fine with the state of the Hema, I would support this idea as long as it was globally applied to all research projects.

I mean, think about it. Ack and Brunt? Couple of Uranus boss runs to get the appropriate drops for it and boom, there you go.

[Chipputer]

5 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

If DE calculates a fair amount of fieldron samples for the next research, watch out guys, i'm serious.

I made a quip to some of my clanmates that if they had released a 5000 fieldron or detonite weapon we probably wouldn't be seeing as much backlash as this. It was worth a bit of a chuckle.

[John89brensen]

38 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

In other words you are asking for perfect game, personally I don't think its going to happen. But this is feedback section after all.

I'll settle for a balanced game, not a perfect one. Well no its not going to happen if we settle for bandaids and poor design choices. 

 

40 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

Honestly farming for anything is rather boring, which is why doing it efficiently is my choice.

Depends, farming in other games is not necessarily boring. Like raid farming in MMOs or other coop games like Borderlands. But werent you comlaining about afk set ups? farming in this game consists of meta squads with little to no player participation.

[MagPrime]

Honestly, I think the biggest issue with the Hema research cost is the burden it puts on the half capacity Ghost clans and the people that have built a clan by themselves.

As to clans bigger than Ghost that are at half capacity or have a lot of inactive members?  Ehhh...my own clan finished the Hema fairly quickly and there's about 7 active players there, out of 30.  You and your other members made the choice to have such an inactive roster, it's not DE's fault. 

I think a good work around would be to have Alliances be able to donate to clans that are members. ( I got bored and farmed up a couple thousand MS over the past few weeks and I'd happily donate that.) AND to have a lower tier for clans, something that's only 5 members, or a purely solo clan tier.

[kaliazane]

5 minutes ago, John89brensen said:

I'll settle for a balanced game, not a perfect one. Well no its not going to happen if we settle for bandaids and poor design choices. 

 

Depends, farming in other games is not necessarily boring. Like raid farming in MMOs or other coop games like Borderlands. But werent you comlaining about afk set ups? farming in this game consists of meta squads with little to no player participation.

Try Bee farming in borderlands 2, you literally spawn, run to the guy and kill him then restart. I remember reading about guy who tried to farm perfect one and it took him 2 weeks, he was doing it on second tv while watching movies. I don't remember complaining about afk farming, it was sarcasm. To change farming this game have they would first need to remove drop chance increasing frames.