Nidus really needs to get reworked

[PsiWarp]

Guys. GUYS.

Maggots can detonate from the hosts being killed, at least from my Sancti Tigris in the Simulacrum. Someone, please test this with other players killing your maggots' snacks via weapons and abilities.

[Hesyol]

Only real problem here is Nullifiers spawning on top of you during fissure missions. If they fix it everything will be ok. If you still keep running into bubbles in every mission - that's your problem

[malekas]

26 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

Guys. GUYS.

Maggots can detonate from the hosts being killed, at least from my Sancti Tigris in the Simulacrum. Someone, please test this with other players killing your maggots' snacks via weapons and abilities.

Tested. Let my maggots get all up inside some mobs, blasted them with my Zarr, got a lot of stacks.

 

It seems the maggots don't need to be killed specifically by Virulence, just kill the host with anything.

 

I also noticed I got around 10 stacks if I just let my Ravenous run down the timer. Nothing even died.

 

Edit: more testing. The stacks I was getting was because I would spawn 20 guys, kill one causing the maggot blast damage, the blast damage killing things is what was giving me stacks

Edited January 12, 2017 by malekas

[xRufus7x]

4 hours ago, Khratos26 said:

 There's bigger gripes..   if u don't mod for efficiency or extra energy power on Nidus u can't even do the first ability to gain stacks making him completly useless in energy reduction mission sorties ( well not useless u can still use the 2nd ability I guess)

Its a sortie. Its not unreasonable to expect people to mod for the conditions.

[PsiWarp]

15 minutes ago, malekas said:

Tested. Let my maggots get all up inside some mobs, blasted them with my Zarr, got a lot of stacks.

 

It seems the maggots don't need to be killed specifically by Virulence, just kill the host with anything.

 

I also noticed I got around 10 stacks if I just let my Ravenous run down the timer. Nothing even died.

Thanks for testing. I also found somethings interesting.

• If a Maggot explodes from its host being killed, it doesn't count its host as 1 hit for the Mutation gauge. Likewise if that host dies from that maggot's bites.
• There can be multiple Maggots attached to an enemy at one time. It seems enemy type doesn't matter, but if Maggots can manage to latch onto a host (Crewman can have 2 to 3 Maggots attached, really hit and miss though).

Really hope this is a new feature. It's a good way to conserve energy (although not necessary) and makes team fights a bit more bearable.

Edited January 12, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Volinus7]

Kinda double standards, Equinox loses all stacked dmg at once but Nidus only get drained.

[Pizzarugi]

DE has a track record of nerfing things straight to hell from which they never return. I became aware of this when they turned synoid gammacor from a deadly constant DPS secondary into a worthless paperweight by giving it the worst nerf you can ever give to a weapon: Ammo economy. It should be known by now what kinda beast is unleashed when you want DE to nerf something.

The people who cried out that he needed a nerf got exactly what they wanted. Now we just have to deal with the aftermath and make due with what we have left. If I go to future Corpus missions, I'm just bringing a weapon that's good at shrinking bubbles without gobbling up ammo. In the event I have to use melee, I'll use something with a long reach.

[achromos]

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

" Now to pop the Maggots you’ll need to cast Virulence on them and rejoice in your hard earned stack accumulation" You're supposed to spam Virulence anyways. There is very little change to gameplay other than you now can't sit there and do nothing while your maggots do everything for you. Oh goodness, you actually have to be engaged now! Oh lawdy!

 

 

You see, the reason why that is bad is because the Maggots used to be able to give me that edge against Mirage + Simulor users.  The Maggots would actually be useful and MARCH after enemies and destroy them well out of the Mirages Sight 9 times out of 10.  Hell, in groups with a Mirage I ended up with 15% damage to her 75% mostly because of that being able to help be the case.

[Separius]

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

Or Nullifiers were put in the game to actually add a little challenge.

Objectively not true. Re-read what I wrote to learn about the history of them being added, also see this and this, for a better understanding of why they were added. Also the last paragraph of the post in the 1st link explains how they are not the right kind of challenging and how there are much more fun ways of giving us a challenge in the game already.

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

We steamroll every single enemy that's thrown at us

As we should be in a bloody horde shooter game.

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

including Nullifiers

Are they challenging now or are they steamrollable? Make up your mind. Anyway, yeah, in low to mid level enemy range, yes, they can be "steamrolled", but it's still not fun. And when high level nullifiers, sapping ospreys and other enemies swarm you in high level survival it's a nightmare and fighting them is the polar opposite of having fun. And in the end playing games is about having fun, no amount of Nullifier defending will make this untrue.

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

And every time DE tries to add something that gives us a challenge, people cry and scream about how suddenly they can't handle it.

Again, being able to handle something and having fun are two different things, that can happen simultanously, but in the case of Nullies, it doesn't happen. Pretty sure I'm not crying either, so don't generalize please.

4 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

After watching these forums for 4 years, I've come to realize that's how this playerbase has evolved into over time. It's depressing.

The only depressing thing I see here is you trying to shut down my legit criticism of nullifiers. Sure OP's post might be overdramatic, but there are plenty of legit opinions in this very thread against the nerfs, particularly Nidus' 4 nerf (someones even post their test results), and people being dismissive about these and just generally downplaying the magnitude of these nerfs, especially considering the reason for these nerfs, that's what's sad.

5 hours ago, SoulEchelon said:

The fact that people still scream bloody murder when a warframe like Nidus is just SLIGHTLY hindered by Nullifiers proves my point.

No it doesn't. What it proves is that Nullifiers are unfun to play against, even if managable, and that people - rightfully - hate bad game design.

[NeonNemesis]

So after people complaining so much on nullifiers, DE gives them another buff? (even if it's against a single frame)

Just don't ever touch on the nullifiers DE, not even to nerf them, because I know that if you nerf them you'll certainly add a "but..." which will make them even worse than before.

I'm almost certain at this point that the weakpoint that they want to add at the top will either be night impossible to hit and nullies will get a boost on damage or is gonna bring a death beam attacked to it that will OHKO.

[SilvaDreams]

28 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Kinda double standards, Equinox loses all stacked dmg at once but Nidus only get drained.

The difference is, that is an active power. Nidus' mutation stacks effect all his skills and are a limit to their use, not just energy.

At lower levels sure Nidus is an absolute power house in the right game mode, now toss him into a sortie and even with maxed stacks he can be chewed up and spit out, the fact nullifiers will now eat away at your stacks is even worse with the increased cost of Undying.

Also fyi none of his abilities work against Nullifiers bubbles, so it's either spray and pray that bubble or now dive in and lose stacks.

[achromos]

3 minutes ago, Separius said:

....

@Separius I totally agree with you in the fashion that Nullifiers just aren't fun.  We need something that can challenge our warframes, yes!  However, Nullifiers are like trees, the trunk is fine and so are some of the branches but the others are very impeding.  Nullifiers are their root, for their purpose aren't bad.  However when I need to bring High RoF weapons just to deal with them, it's not enjoyable and limits my selection in a game ALL about selection.  Thankfully DE has already talked about trimming some of those offending branches though.

People don't get that this is a Horde shooter game, and want to think that this isn't.  This game is at it's own roots a TTK (Time To Kill) game, denial of this fact is face-desk worthy, especially if someone has been playing this for 4 years.  Just because DE doesn't want to put the game in a box doesn't mean it isn't already there.  If this isn't a Horde Shooter, it's a Muso-Game (Muso = Dynasty Warriors series or similar) we even have a Focus meter that builds up over time and grants us a buff or (in lower levels) kills enemies or even CC's them for easier killing.

If people have a issue with NIDUS doing his thing, then why aren't the forums aflame with Banshee (with her augment), or Mirage with Simulor?  Literal frames that can play the game for you with so much less effort.  At least with Nidus he had to build up those stacks in the first place.  With banshee all the player behind her has to do is equip a augment, mod the frame for her ultimate and drop a pizza and press 4 while watching Netflix.  All a person playing as Mirage has to do is build for her hall of mirrors and equip a simulor and mash that M1 button. (or roll the scroll button on the mouse if you rebind M1 presses to that).

 

[Littlerift]

The most powerful Warframe released in a long while gets an incredibly minor nerf and people are pretending that he's now useless. Ah forums.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Littlerift

[shut]

5 hours ago, WingGun said:

Um, why does your posts always end in ]\'[ ?

Probably some sort of signature, despite these forums disabling signatures for very good reason.

OT:
I haven't played Nidus yet, but doesn't he lose a stack per second in a Nully bubble? If so, that sounds extremely lenient.
You should be able to enter Nully bubbles just fine; it's STAYING INSIDE that's discouraged. I can think of a crapton of other frames (especially Loki and Chroma) who only wish Nully bubbles were so harmless to them.

[Separius]

45 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Kinda double standards, Equinox loses all stacked dmg at once but Nidus only get drained.

Yes. If Nidus gets this treatment, then Equinox shouldn't lose all of her stacked damage at once, Inaros shouldn't lose all his generated bonus armor at once etc. and just let those drain like Nidus' stacks.

11 minutes ago, achromos said:

then why aren't the forums aflame with Banshee (with her augment), or Mirage with Simulor?

They aren't right now, but those posts do happen. Rest of the post is spot on.

5 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

The most powerful Warframe released in a long while gets an incredibly minor nerf and people are pretending that he's now useless. Ah forums.

Go practise your virtue signalling somewhere else, partner.

Also the changes to his four are definitely not just minor nerfs, people are posting the results of their testing left and right, there are some in this very thread.

Furthermore, despite the clickbait title in the OP, he does bring up a legit point. Not everyone who criticizes the changes are doomsayers either, so don't generalize.

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

Nidus Changes & Fixes

• Increased the base health of Nidus’ Maggots to 1k.
• Increased Nidus’ Mutation Stack consumption from 10 to 15 when knocked into a bleedout state/death. The task of regaining 10 Stacks is quickly obtainable, making this consequence for dying too light. Although 15 Stacks is not a huge jump, we’re hoping it’s closer to that sweet spot! 
• Entering a Nullifier bubble will now drain down Mutation Stacks the longer you are in the bubble. 
• To increase the visibility of Nidus' Maggots, holding down Nidus’ Virulence will now display a HUD marker on them. Keep in mind that casting Virulence on Maggots cause them to detonate!
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots no longer auto detonate when feasting on enemies. Previously the Maggots could do a majority of the grunt work and you were able to watch the carnage and gain Stacks at the same time. Now to pop the Maggots you’ll need to cast Virulence on them and rejoice in your hard earned Stack accumulation. It’s also worth noting that with testing by our team, the Stack rhythm before and after this change wasn’t noticed at all. 
• Improved the FX of Maggot explosion to better represent the intended area of explosion.
• Nidus’ Ravenous Maggots will still attack but no longer latch on other Infested Maggots or Kuva Jesters due to awkward animations.  
• Fixed FX, Maggots, & Health regeneration while in Ravenous staying around forever if cast by a Client who leaves.

 

We dont even had the chance to try it out ( besides ppl with both pc and console) and you ll release it already nerfed !i dont have words to describe this attitude, its just pure nonsense. Ohhh the nullifier thing decreasing your stacks was the cherry on top of the pie ! what a ridiculous change.....May I ask one thing ? Are we even allowed to HAVE FUN ? or no fun is the evil and welcome to grind city ? I understand the 15 stacks change and ok, i dont like it but its not the end of the world, but the other changes...oooh lord. You have such a terrible trend : release not fun weapons , bad and just mr fodder. Is it part of the plan so you can later release riven mods and people will scream of happiness ? personally stop with this band aid mod system , its damaging the game and not helping it.  Focus the time and the money ( which i still give you like an idiot with every prime accessories pack) on doing the game better!!! this is not the right direction to make the game funnier and enjoyable.. my 2 cents....now go and close the topic as usual , im waiting.

its a general discussion , so I would like to know other people s opinions about the nerf and rivens. this is not a rant, this is a discussion.

Edited January 12, 2017 by (PS4)maso_sage-mode

[AXCrusnik]

Seriously... Just don't die so much and the "nerf" will hardly even effect you. They INCREASED maggot HP and made them easier to see when using virulence's hold feature so you can pop them on enemies and get stacks. So it's slightly harder to get a free revive on a frame that can get massive HP regen that released in an update that released TWO weapons that can give HP regen easily.

Edited January 12, 2017 by AXCrusnik

[(PSN)maso_sage-mode]

1 minute ago, AXCrusnik said:

Seriously... Just don't die so much and the "nerf" will hardly even effect you. They INCREASED maggot HP and made them easier to see when using virulence's hold feature so you can pop them on enemies and get stacks. So it's slightly harder to get a free revive on a frame that can get massive HP regen that released in an update that released TWO weapons that can give HP regen easily.

im no worried as i wrote about the 15 stacks change too much since there is hema, arcane grace

[Extroah]

I don't understand the problem with it tbh. How often are you inside of a Nullifier bubble? I mostly play Corpus as i love the Faction in general and i barely even touch nullifiers, so this will have no effect on me whatsoever. Can imagine it getting pretty annoying on maps like the Void when a Nullifier jumps down from ontop of you and makes you be inside of the bubble for a second, but that's probably like 2~3 Stacks lost..

[bluepheonix13]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)maso_sage-mode said:

- snip -

So you are saying they should give you unbalanced and broken content instead of the neat, almost bug-free (compared to PC version) packages you are getting now?

[AXCrusnik]

Just now, Extroah said:

I don't understand the problem with it tbh. How often are you inside of a Nullifier bubble? I mostly play Corpus as i love the Faction in general and i barely even touch nullifiers, so this will have no effect on me whatsoever. Can imagine it getting pretty annoying on maps like the Void when a Nullifier jumps down from ontop of you and makes you be inside of the bubble for a second, but that's probably like 2~3 Stacks lost..

Personally I think the nullifier change is a good thing. One it makes nullifiers ability more consistent and two it gives precedent for abilities to decay instead of get instantly destroyed by nullifiers.

[PsiWarp]

1 minute ago, Extroah said:

I don't understand the problem with it tbh. How often are you inside of a Nullifier bubble? I mostly play Corpus as i love the Faction in general and i barely even touch nullifiers, so this will have no effect on me whatsoever. Can imagine it getting pretty annoying on maps like the Void when a Nullifier jumps down from ontop of you and makes you be inside of the bubble for a second, but that's probably like 2~3 Stacks lost..

Just gotta face the facts, you will lose stacks fighting on Nullifiers' turf. Also, try not to fall into pits, it'll take 1 stack from you every time (sucks for those who gets stuck in a teleport loop).

[Azzaruth]

2 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

Yeah. At least make enemies being eaten by Maggots count as 1 hit toward the Mutation gauge if killed by you (using weapons) or teammates (any way); when the targets die, maggots hop off to eat other enemies afterward (since they need to time out or get stabbed by Virulence to explode now). Even with this proposed change, maggot explosion will still be more effective since 1 Maggot can hit a lot of enemies in its radius when it detonates.

Right now teammates can basically "hit-steal" from your Maggots if you can't manage to use Virulence on them. That happens a lot if the team is actively killing and the least bit competent.

Also, it would be nice to show us how much damage maggot bites do in the Abilities menu. That bite damage also scales with Mutation, I'm curious if it benefits from Power Strength as well.

EDIT: WAIT. I just tried in Simulacrum. Level 50 Prod Crewmen being eaten by my Maggots (I only have 5 stacks, their bites don't do jack damage). One blast from Sancti Tigris kills a crewman, guess what happened? MAGGOT EXPLOSION. Tried it repeatedly, MORE EXPLOSIONS.

Someone please test this with other players killing your maggot snacks. Stacking just got real.

I just tried this, and I am absolutely confused by this. I tried with the sancti tigris and got nothing and just assumed you were just still getting stacks from using your Virulence. But then I swapped over to the Tigris Prime and they started bursting and I was getting stacks when I shot them. I've been testing out multiple things but I just can't really get any solid conclusion what is going on or why it happens. And it's not really consistent either. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

[PsiWarp]

7 minutes ago, Esorono said:

I just tried this, and I am absolutely confused by this. I tried with the sancti tigris and got nothing and just assumed you were just still getting stacks from using your Virulence. But then I swapped over to the Tigris Prime and they started bursting and I was getting stacks when I shot them. I've been testing out multiple things but I just can't really get any solid conclusion what is going on or why it happens. And it's not really consistent either. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't.

Aside from this test which I have yet to perform, "directly shooting the maggots on an enemy vs. directly shooting the enemy to kill it", I have had pretty consistent results from using weapons to kill hosts, and maggots just exploding if they bite their host to death.

Also tested on public, a short run on Akkad, cast Ravenous only then sit back to see if my teammates could help me stack. Yes, they can, only if maggots manage to cling to hosts and my teammates kill them.

These changes are indeed confusing. They seem contradictory to what DE said about us sitting back letting Maggots stack up for us, but on the other hand, solves one of the problems with Nidus having difficulty getting stacks with a team that actively kills enemies.

Edited January 12, 2017 by PsiWarp

[Evanescent]

Let me address the nerfs.

His damage is untouched. He is still the world destroyer he always was. Players who mostly used him for 1,2 and 3 will not notice a difference. By that I mean players who built their Nidus around using 1 to kill and build stacks, 2 to much them together for better virulence and CC, and Parasitic link to stay alive and boos stack building even more. If this was your playstyle you will not notice a difference.

Due to using 3 a lot in higher level stuff where his nerfs actually matter, I already avoided nullifier bubbles so I'm not ruffled with these changes. 1 stack per second-you shouldn't be hurt too much if you move quick and think quick. You build stacks lightning fast anyway.

his 15 consumption is not noticeable if you were not relying on it to get you through. It is still an amazing fallback passive, but now puts you under greater pressure to not die and incentivises you to use his 3 more to keep yourself from dying. Again, if you were not building around his passive you will notice no difference.

His ravenous maggot tweak does not affect me too much because I always pulled in stuff with 2 and built stacks primarily using Virulence. Maggots were a bonus and they will still give me more stacks. Negative duration ravenous nukes are still as powerful as before. If you used ravenous primarily for healing and bonus stacks and were not relying on it, you will notice no difference. 

So all in all, for those concerned, by which I don't mean everyone except certain people (I can't be clearer than this ffs) Please, do not whine that Nidus is useless/Nidus is dead. He is very much not dead. 

I don't think the nerfs were necessary, I don't like them, but they aren't unreasonable.