Nidus really needs to get reworked

[duhadventure]

You can get more stacks back by using your [1] on maggoted enemies to make the explosions of maggots generate more stacks. It helps even more with casting Larva first and then Virulence on maggoted enemies.

Edited January 12, 2017 by duhadventure

[KrazzyKracker]

18 minutes ago, BalicBlackthorn said:

I will not be spending any additional money on this game until the ravenous change at least is revoked, as that is just flipping stupid. I can see the undying change, the nullifier change I disagree with on the basis that nullifiers are a fun-killer for me for any frame with sustained abilities and they just added Nidus to that list, but I refuse to be a flipping maggot herder. Ravenous was fine.

I am just one player and I doubt they'll act on just my feedback, but I will cast my vote with my wallet and patronage nonetheless.

On a side note: Seriously DE, cut back on the nullifiers. Its not that they EXIST that's the issue, its that there is an endless horde of them in every non-exterminate corpus or void fissure mission.

I agree with you I too will vote with my wallet. My family and I have spent about 4000-5000 dollars on warframe combined since we started playing and will no longer be supporting DE with our money I have had it with the nerf mentality at DE. I hope that they soon see that every time they hit something with the nerf bat they will be hitting their bank accounts too. 

[PsiWarp]

Well there is a hidden compromise they forgot to mention (or is a bug, who knows). Maggots will now also detonate when attached to hosts that are killed by any source, but of course using Virulence in combination will yield more hits toward stacks.

[Inarticulate]

1 hour ago, Tizodd said:

[DE] put the buff counter in a different area of the screen, but that does not make Mutations entirely different from every other ability in the game.  I suspect they placed it there for aesthetic reasons (to add to Nidus' infested theme).

Mutation mechanics are not entirely different from other frame abilities.  Basically, Mutations are added based on damage done to enemies.

• Mesa's Ballistic Battery: Stores damage caused by guns. When triggered again, that damage is channeled through the next gunshot.
• Chroma's Vex Armor: When shields are hit, Chroma's armor grows stronger, when health takes a hit, weapon damage increases.  It's similar to Mutations in the sense that enemy interaction makes it stronger.
• Frost's Snow Globe and Rhino's Iron Skin have a period of invulnerability where they have health added to their totals...again, abilities that can be made stronger based on enemy interaction.
• Nyx's Absorb: Absorbs enemy damage, increasing the damage when released.

There are others as well.  Their counters may be in a different area of the screen, but the basic premise is similar (growing stronger based on enemy interaction).  So no, other abilities might not be exactly like Mutations verbatim, but there are definitely similarities.  Mutation is not some totally new idea.

No, it's different.

• Ballistic Battery's stack builds only when Ballistic Battery is activated and is expended on the first bullet after Ballistic Battery is deactivated.
• Vex Armor's stack builds only after Vex Armor is activated and expires when Vex Armor's duration expires.
• Snow Globe creates an ability-summoned object with its own health and other stats.
• Absorb's stack builds only when Absorb is toggled on and is expended when Absorb is toggled off.

All of these effects are self-contained within that ability or have simple interactions with other abilities*.

In comparison, Mutation works like this (prior to U19.6.0):

• Mutation gains 20% of a stack whenever Virulence and Ravenous land a hit.
• Mutation stacks are expended whenever Parasitic Link or Ravenous is cast or Undying activates.
• Mutation stacks add 100% damage to Virulence and Ravenous per stack.

Comparatively, Mutation is a separate resource more akin to Health, Shields, Armor, or Energy than the effect of an ability.

 

*Simple interactions are things like "casting Freeze on a Snow Globe destroys the Snow Globe" or "hitting an enemy under the effect of Spore while Toxic Lash is active guarantees a Spore will pop".

If you try to word the effect of Mutation stacks in terms of abilities affecting each other directly, it's a lot harder to do.

 

1 hour ago, Tizodd said:

I get the feeling you're disagreeing because you think I'm calling for more Nidus nerfs...I'm not.  What I'd like to see, is more abilities having similar treatment when it comes to Nullifier bubbles.  Currently afaik, Nidus is the only frame that doesn't completely lose his ability buff when a Nullifier bubble touches him.

I get the feeling you think I care if Nidus is nerfed or not.

I'm simply stating that there is no reason to immediately assume that Mutation should or should not be affected by Nullifier bubbles because there is no precedent for such a resource. The Mutation system behaves as a resource instead of as an ability effect, yet it is more intertwined with the ability system than any other resource is.

[Datsher]

Tbh I'd prefer both. So that Maggots detonate automatically and when you cast virulence.

Not sure if they did that before

Edited January 12, 2017 by Skycook3y

[KrazzyKracker]

This is simply a statement that I along with my family/clan of warframe founders who have spent between 4,000-5,000 american dollars on warframe since we started playing. We are upset at the direction and the actions of DE over the last year or so. The endless RNG gate of sorties that stacks RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. Excalibur getting a great rework then immediately nerfed. And finally the straw that broke the camels back the latest Massive Nidus nerf. Nidus on release was a step in the right direction he was balanced yet had synergy and stacking ability to make him relevant in long survival and defense missions. Our hope was Nidus would shine a light on the lacking synergy and scaling of most of the frames in the game and cause DE to rethink other frames scaling. But instead in a long line of tradition they let him sell very well over the holiday season then swiftly nerfed him.

     My clan/family will no longer be supporting DE with money until they correct the direction that they are going. We would like Nidus to be returned to the state he was in when we bought him with plat on release. Until this is done we will be speaking with our wallets and no longer spending a cent on warframe. It will be difficult to not purchase prime access packs as we own nearly all of them but we are determined not to support bad decisions by the developers. I hope others will join me in this stand against the nerf mentality by voting with your wallets. 

[PoisonHD]

The nerf wasn't that bad in all honesty... and it actually makes sense imo.

I play him on Corpus maps all the time, and it hasn't changed how I play him at all.

Edited January 12, 2017 by PoisonHD

[KrazzyKracker]

The nerf was not needed at all though there was no reason to do it.

[Mvtty]

6 minutes ago, KrazzyKracker said:

This is simply a statement that I along with my family/clan of warframe founders who have spent between 4,000-5,000 american dollars on warframe since we started playing. We are upset at the direction and the actions of DE over the last year or so. The endless RNG gate of sorties that stacks RNG on top of RNG on top of RNG. Excalibur getting a great rework then immediately nerfed. And finally the straw that broke the camels back the latest Massive Nidus nerf. Nidus on release was a step in the right direction he was balanced yet had synergy and stacking ability to make him relevant in long survival and defense missions. Our hope was Nidus would shine a light on the lacking synergy and scaling of most of the frames in the game and cause DE to rethink other frames scaling. But instead in a long line of tradition they let him sell very well over the holiday season then swiftly nerfed him.

     My clan/family will no longer be supporting DE with money until they correct the direction that they are going. We would like Nidus to be returned to the state he was in when we bought him with plat on release. Until this is done we will be speaking with our wallets and no longer spending a cent on warframe. It will be difficult to not purchase prime access packs as we own nearly all of them but we are determined not to support bad decisions by the developers. I hope others will join me in this stand against the nerf mentality by voting with your wallets. 

DE never forced you to spend $ and neither Platinium, so don't pop this fact for explain how mad you are cause the new braindead warframe have been released... 

This nerf was necessary. And now he is "good" as he his. 

[KrazzyKracker]

2 minutes ago, Eleodon said:

DE never forced you to spend $ and neither Platinium, so don't pop this fact for explain how mad you are cause the new braindead warframe have been released... 

This nerf was necessary. And now he is "good" as he his. 

I never said DE forced me to spend money or platinium if you had actually read my post I said we would no longer be spending money. We have been supporting DE with money since becoming founders because we believed in the vision they had of warframe and backed them with cash. I am simply stating that we no longer have faith in DE and will no longer be supporting them with our wallets until they stop this nerf mentality. There is no level cap for enemies in this game our favorite thing to do is do 1-2 hour survivals and defense missions and nothing is op at those high waves. Nerfs shouldnt even be on the to do list.

[achromos]

Please revert Ravenous change x.X  Nobody else has to deal with micromanagement like that on their 4 and we have several frames that out-strip him in leagues and bounds.  This really doesn't feel fun, nor does it feel like a worthwhile investment of stacks.

[Guest]

You see, this is why I have a hard time to understand people.

When the developers for the first time put in so much detail into one Warframe, and you failed to comprehend to such details you said he's OP and nerf the living S#&$ out of him.

How about we reverse what players would do with him?

-Players stop using CCs

-Players stop stacking 

-Players stop using his overall abilities

Have you even got your hands on this frame? He's weak as hell without any of those. You open up an AXI mission like Ext and try to only bring a melee weapon you will see how weak this guy is without his stacks. 

Am I a Nidus fanboy? F*** no, after playing with my friend who rushed Nidus and whenever we play he will go "join the hive mind," "Kaiyoken *100," I'm so OPPPPP..." I hate this frame for a passion. Does that mean I don't appreciate the amount of details that were put in to this frame? No that's pretty much what every single warframe should be like.

For once I'd say you are protesting for regressive, if you want something to complain with I'd say you go complain about how Hydroid is forgotten and how Oberon still haven't got any scaling potential, or how Volt prime's primary color covers the entire frame. Those are real issues, but Nidus? Nidus is one progressive move, a move that forces themselves to put more details into future frames and for us to complain to a point where they had to rework all warframes to match the detailed level.

 

I don't like Lamborghini, those who drive one makes me puke, but I do appreciate the amount of craftsmanship being put into the machine. I hope you too can judge with pure logic and not your emotions.   

[KrazzyKracker]

4 minutes ago, Valteria. said:

rghini, those who drive one makes me puke, but I do appreciate the amount of craftsmanship being put into the machine. I hope you too can judge with pure logic and not your emotions.   

 

4 minutes ago, Valteria. said:

You see, this is why I have a hard time to understand people.

When the developers for the first time put in so much detail into one Warframe, and you failed to comprehend to such details you said he's OP and nerf the living S#&$ out of him.

How about we reverse what players would do with him?

-Players stop using CCs

-Players stop stacking 

-Players stop using his overall abilities

Have you even got your hands on this frame? He's weak as hell without any of those. You open up an AXI mission like Ext and try to only bring a melee weapon you will see how weak this guy is without his stacks. 

Am I a Nidus fanboy? F*** no, after playing with my friend who rushed Nidus and whenever we play he will go "join the hive mind," "Kaiyoken *100," I'm so OPPPPP..." I hate this frame for a passion. Does that mean I don't appreciate the amount of details that were put in to this frame? No that's pretty much what every single warframe should be like.

For once I'd say you are protesting for regressive, if you want something to complain with I'd say you go complain about how Hydroid is forgotten and how Oberon still haven't got any scaling potential, or how Volt prime's primary color covers the entire frame. Those are real issues, but Nidus? Nidus is one progressive move, a move that forces themselves to put more details into future frames and for us to complain to a point where they had to rework all warframes to match the detailed level.

 

I don't like Lamborghini, those who drive one makes me puke, but I do appreciate the amount of craftsmanship being put into the machine. I hope you too can judge with pure logic and not your emotions.   

[jfhsanseiIII]

22 hours ago, Separius said:

 

You contradict yourself within the same post.

Hmm.  I played Nidus extensively yesterday.  I'd say the changes just make it more fun to get play.  I've a question though.  Why is it always a nerf if we don't like it and balancing when we do? I think frames, and weapons as well, need to be in a constant state of balancing as new things come out.  Nidus still functions pretty much the same but got balanced so there's more to lose and less a feeling of invincibility.  I asked for balancing on the release thread, after playing him for a while, I could tell that it was possible to go deep in endless missions by hitting link, casting four, and letting your minions do all the work.  Now you're actually required to play a little bit more. It's fun.  

[KrazzyKracker]

8 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

Hmm.  I played Nidus extensively yesterday.  I'd say the changes just make it more fun to get play.  I've a question though.  Why is it always a nerf if we don't like it and balancing when we do? I think frames, and weapons as well, need to be in a constant state of balancing as new things come out.  Nidus still functions pretty much the same but got balanced so there's more to lose and less a feeling of invincibility.  I asked for balancing on the release thread, after playing him for a while, I could tell that it was possible to go deep in endless missions by hitting link, casting four, and letting your minions do all the work.  Now you're actually required to play a little bit more. It's fun.  

I have never liked it when DE nerfs things. This is a PVE game with enemies that have unlimited scaling and power nothing is OP Level 900 nulifiers kick every ones &#!. Nerfing for the sake of balance in a game that is by design unbalanced is $&*&*#(%&. You dont want balance in a game that has 200 weapons because then you have 200 similar weapons. Why should I want to get another weapon if its just as good or as bad as what I have. Which brings us to the horrible buisness practice DE has of releasing good weapons and frames letting them build hype because they are "OP" and people buy them with money then they nerf them and wash rinse and repeat with the next frame and weapon.

[Soketsu]

On 06/01/2017 at 8:03 PM, Knight_Ex said:

I can't be the only person getting sick of seeing 2-3 nidus warframes running in every mission, lets break it down, Nidus is pretty much unkillable, he has insane amounts of damage, even if by some miracle he goes down so long as the person has 10 stacks they are auto revived, he can CC an entire room easily, gain insane amounts of damage reduction with his link, oh are those 10 bombards giving you trouble? just let me link to that corrupted ancient....there we go all better,  Fact of the matter being why run anything else since Nidus does most jobs perfectly, Tanking....check.....Damage....Check (With 100stacks his one can do up to 40k damage per hit and it hits multiple times), Buffing....Check.....Healing......sorta...his 4 can heal but not as effective as a trin, still if the people stay in range its unlikely they will go down.   So please someone come in here and tell me he doesn't need a rework and explain your logic behind it?  FYI to get 100 stacks takes all but 3 minutes in some missions, his second ability followed with his first.....Id love to know the developers take on this.

Like every new frame at their first day of their birth, c'mon wait 1 or 2 months & they won't be so numberous, beside unkillable ? as there was any real threat in the regular content, valkyr was unkillable too for a long time, warframe didin't die due to that, rhino, nezha, chroma & inaros can't be quite tanky too, I will not talk about other way to survive quite easely

BUT what you forgot is that even if you're unkillable, doesn't mean it the only thing you need in order to complete a mission, even if it help it's not enough,example, even an invincible guy will lose a defense if he don't manage to protect his objective. You can still fail a timed mission if you don't accomplish the objective. Being invincible doesn't mean you will complete the mission faster/ in a more efficient way that any frame (Cf ember in order to clean low mid level content).

Just to say this thing again, like for naramon, invincible doesn't mean 100% win. Don't kill a thing who just came to life, just because you see everyone use it .Please, don't kill Nidus like you did on some other content, became forgotten.

[MirageKnight]

Barring a couple of minor tweaks here and there, I'd say that Nidus is a surprising well-balanced 'Frame with a good set of abilities that for the most part synergize and scale pretty well.

I have only one real complaint with regard to Nidus...and that's his passive, Undying: In comparison to the passives of other 'Frames, this one arguably has them all beat in terms of actual, outright usefulness. It's also one of the few passives that really fits its 'Frame.

[jfhsanseiIII]

1 hour ago, KrazzyKracker said:

I have never liked it when DE nerfs things. This is a PVE game with enemies that have unlimited scaling and power nothing is OP Level 900 nulifiers kick every ones &#!. Nerfing for the sake of balance in a game that is by design unbalanced is $&*&*#(%&. You dont want balance in a game that has 200 weapons because then you have 200 similar weapons. Why should I want to get another weapon if its just as good or as bad as what I have. Which brings us to the horrible buisness practice DE has of releasing good weapons and frames letting them build hype because they are "OP" and people buy them with money then they nerf them and wash rinse and repeat with the next frame and weapon.

you're arguing a point I never brought up, but I guess we can talk about that.   If there's one unbalanced gun frame or item in the game, then everyone will use that.  If everything is balanced then people have choice. DE has been putting in a signicant amount of effort into making choice the dominant theme by giving new weapons some nuances that make them unique. If they allow the former then there's no point in making new stuff because nobody will buy it unless it's more powerful than the next.  Thus forcing DE to make enemies tougher to kill. This is called power creep.  Its boring.  Instead of variety it's the same stuff all day. I don't dislike ember.  I dislike that everyone tom $&*^ and harry chooses it.  I think that puts pressure on DE to put out that unique content. Steve has even come out and said it himself in the last devstream.  

[KrazzyKracker]

23 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

you're arguing a point I never brought up, but I guess we can talk about that.   If there's one unbalanced gun frame or item in the game, then everyone will use that.  If everything is balanced then people have choice. DE has been putting in a signicant amount of effort into making choice the dominant theme by giving new weapons some nuances that make them unique. If they allow the former then there's no point in making new stuff because nobody will buy it unless it's more powerful than the next.  Thus forcing DE to make enemies tougher to kill. This is called power creep.  Its boring.  Instead of variety it's the same stuff all day. I don't dislike ember.  I dislike that everyone tom $&*^ and harry chooses it.  I think that puts pressure on DE to put out that unique content. Steve has even come out and said it himself in the last devstream.  

Well then Nidus should be reverted back to the way he was before the nerf because that was great and interesting. Rather then bringing him down to the same low crap standard of other frames raise the bar and bring those frames up to task. So many frames are less used because DE didnt put half the effort and thought into them like they did Nidus. Nidus should be the bar they are aiming for not nerfing him so they dont have to touch the other frames. I mean come on Mag is a completely worthless frame right now when before she only had one purpose and that was to nuke corpus. Now she has no purpose and fills no roles. You want all frames to be worthless and have no purpose because guess what people are going to choose the best weapons and frames no matter how much you balance them. So if DE stopped focusing on balance all the time and focused on giving people reasons to play other frames and use other weapons not nerfing a frame because people are using him.

[Soketsu]

33 minutes ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

you're arguing a point I never brought up, but I guess we can talk about that.   If there's one unbalanced gun frame or item in the game, then everyone will use that.  If everything is balanced then people have choice. DE has been putting in a signicant amount of effort into making choice the dominant theme by giving new weapons some nuances that make them unique. If they allow the former then there's no point in making new stuff because nobody will buy it unless it's more powerful than the next.  Thus forcing DE to make enemies tougher to kill. This is called power creep.  Its boring.  Instead of variety it's the same stuff all day. I don't dislike ember.  I dislike that everyone tom $&*^ and harry chooses it.  I think that puts pressure on DE to put out that unique content. Steve has even come out and said it himself in the last devstream.  

That why we all prefer nerf instead of, I don't know, buffing every under used content first ? But no, community is more energetic on nerfing new content than for buffing old ones, you know the stuff that no one use.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Soketsu

[Wolfglaive]

His power level was completely intended. Sure, they may tweak him here and there as they already have, but that's more due to the fact that he's a prototype of several different things rather than the developers feeling that he's "OP". His stack gague is the obvious one, as are the passives which he gains as it increases, but he's also a prototype of completely unique rank bonuses. I'm not really understanding OPs logic here. He's a good frame, and?...

[jfhsanseiIII]

55 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

That why we all prefer nerf instead of, I don't know, buffing every under used content first ? But no, community is more energetic on nerfing new content than for buffing old ones, you know the stuff that no one use.

I agree that underused items should be balanced, that's what rivens are supposed to do after all, so they get more play.  However, makingbthem all super powerful doesn't make the game balanced.  Again power creep.   Most people don't go deep into games, in fact not many go above sortie level.  So, it doesn't really matter what you bring.  A six forms Paris MK-1 is suitable for the content most people do.  However, that should be the case for all items.   Yet, no item should be so powerful as to be untouchable.  Balancing overturned items keeps the game fun and challenging.  Overpowering everything will just make it so it's a competitive "I can push four and kill everything faster than you" game, instead of a coop game.  Which is what DE appears to want. 

[Navarc]

15 hours ago, hammerheathen said:

List could go on with frost bubbles as well.

So. This is the kindest association with nullifiers bubbles I have ever seen.

Aye, even with timed buffs they could take 1 second per second, or half the duration every second.

In any case, this "nerf" is unnoticeable especially in comparison to other warframes being hit by a train when looking in the same direction as a nullie.

[KrazzyKracker]

1 hour ago, jfhsanseiIII said:

I agree that underused items should be balanced, that's what rivens are supposed to do after all, so they get more play.  However, makingbthem all super powerful doesn't make the game balanced.  Again power creep.   Most people don't go deep into games, in fact not many go above sortie level.  So, it doesn't really matter what you bring.  A six forms Paris MK-1 is suitable for the content most people do.  However, that should be the case for all items.   Yet, no item should be so powerful as to be untouchable.  Balancing overturned items keeps the game fun and challenging.  Overpowering everything will just make it so it's a competitive "I can push four and kill everything faster than you" game, instead of a coop game.  Which is what DE appears to want. 

Then by this logic Nidus should not have been nerfed because many other frames are far more powerful then he is. Frost is a tank that has a snowglobe and a press 4 button to win. He can nuke most enemies on a map no problem. He literally dosnt have to move just sits still press 4 over and over gg. While Nidus had to run around line enmies up and hit them with his 1 which is very small and only goes in a straight line. and his 4th wasnt ment for CC cause it dosnt do it very well it was ment to get stacks from maggets exploding but they already nerfed that. The only reason he got a nerf was because people cried about him on the fourms because they do that every time a new frame comes out.

[El_Diffablo]

On 1/13/2017 at 7:43 AM, PsiWarp said:

In 19.5.4. To be honest, it wasn't gonna last since Inaro's Scarab Swarm and Equinox's Mend used to be able to but quickly patched out.

thankyou , i just miss being able to be god tier inaros and nidus keeping the team alive and objectives healthy
i cant build stacks with ravenous the same anymore and havent seen 15 since the update