For the love of god, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor

[(PSN)skins0208]

2 minutes ago, KYLoooo said:

Who the hell uses Banshee? 

Banshee dishes out insane damage with sonar.

I use her all the time in defense and exterminate missions.

[Misgenesis]

9 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Then what? Ignis Ember?

Then what? Spore Saryn?

Then what? Resonating Banshee?

Then what? Sonar Banshee?

Then what? Maim Equinox?

Requires more actions, falls off quicker.

Requires more actions, doesnt instantly wipe.

Needs a lot of energy, but can be a issue, nerf it?

Whole squad benefits from it.

Requires build up.

So yes, nerf 'Simulor Mirage.'

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by Misgenesis

[Kylo.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)skins0208 said:

Banshee dishes out insane damage with sonar.

I use her all the time in defense and exterminate missions.

The Difference is you actually have to aim to achieve that, in comparison to Simulor-Mirage. 

[RagingGrizzly]

10 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

No there isnt tho. If somebody chooses to use a frame for one single use, that doesnt always mean there is an issue. I use Frost exclusively for snowglobe in defense missions, is there a problem with Frost? No. 

No, because it doesn't obliterate a room. I'm not basing anything on using only one ability in any warframe's kit, (Your comparison isn't really valid, as you're filling a job in a team role so others can do theirs, etc) I'm basing it on the fact that it completely destroys diversity. I have never seen Mirages use anything else besides Hall of Mirrors, S. Simulor and Telos Boltace. If people are committed to this setup because it's fast and it kills everything to a level where it's insane in a mindless way, then I'm really losing hope in a number of Mirage players. (On top of that, nobody can really do anything in a pub match because these combos are so fast)

Also, the other cheese tactics you mentioned aren't good comparisons either, as some of them just help other players out in killing (Spore Saryn and Banshee with Sonar) and people actually use other abilities on their kits with these frames, and I can't say the same with Mirage. 

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by PUR3K1LL3R

[Jackviator]

I'm a simple man. Whenever I see a thread on fixing this broken combo, I upvote.

And they're not just broken. Whenever someone uses this combination, it creates a fun vacuum that sucks all the fun out of the experience for everyone, including the person wielding the MiraMulor.

Whoever is using them reduces the game into essentially a walking-simulator for both them and everyone who has the misfortune of being in the same squad as the player in question. This is especially true on Exterminate missions, where entire rooms are cleared before you even have time to aim.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Jackviator

[YUNoJump]

6 minutes ago, ultragen said:

Don't know about you guys but I recently got Mirage and Synoid Simulor and I really LOVE them. But I like Mirage as a warframe too. She is fast, she is tricky, she is beautiful and she is deadly... I understand the frustration of having a Mirage+Simulor player in your group for a fissure run as you just run behind her collecting reactants but I do not let it break my game.

You are an example of a good Mirage+Simulor player, if you appreciate the Frame's whole kit then that is good for the game and as long as you let team mates actually play then go for it. 

However...

7 minutes ago, ultragen said:

I do not think that there is a need for a nerf, just some logical thinking from the player community...

You'll have better luck getting blood from a stone. If there is a cheese option it's guaranteed that people will play it. 

[armedpoop]

7 minutes ago, VentiGlondi said:

I've been aggravated by Mirages ever since simulor came out, so that's kind of the point.

So since you (a probably minority in the community) are aggravated, everyone else should be too?

3 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Requires more actions, falls off quicker.

Requires more actions, doesnt instantly wipe.

Needs a lot of energy, but can be a issue, nerf it?

Whole squad benefits from it.

Requires build up.

So yes, nerf 'Simulor Mirage.'

 

See, you say that now. But others will cry nerf about it once any of those starts popping up more often. 

2 minutes ago, KYLoooo said:

The Difference is you actually have to aim to achieve that, in comparison to Simulor-Mirage. 

Not with a Simulor you dont

[Coaa]

14 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

I highly doubt that Mirage would completely die if they changed an interaction she has with just one gun. Every time a Warframe gets nerfed people pop up and say "rip that Warframe they're useless now" etc etc but that never happens, people still play Ash, people still play Trinity, people still play Mag (even though she is frequently mentioned as being underwhelming), people still play Saryn. removing the ability to EZ-mode the game doesn't make people completely abandon a frame, it makes people actually think about how to use them. And raw user numbers don't matter if they're all just using the frame for one dumb strategy and not actually thinking.

I hate to say it but if I were to keep a tally of what frames I play with in endgame style missions there would only be like 5 on that list. I never see certain frames in sorties or high level survival / raids, ever. It's always the exact same frames.

Nerfing some frames truly removes them from gameplay. Outside of the random person leveling it for MR I barely ever see frames like Atlas, Banshee, Ash, Limbo etc. I could go on but it's always the same handful of frames in everything endgame.

It is a problem, there needs to be a lot of reworks to make other frames more useful not less useful.

[YUNoJump]

13 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Nerfing Simulor Mirage will do nothing but aggravate the people who use Simulor, or Mirage. 

Everything the devs do aggravates someone, no point in holding back at this point.

12 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

This isnt always the case. If somebody chooses to use a frame for one single use, that doesnt always mean there is an issue. I use Frost exclusively for snowglobe in defense missions, is there a problem with Frost? No. 

I do believe that we need better options for adequately defending defense targets/excavators than pretty much just Frost, but at least Frost still requires you to play the game when you use Snowglobe, and that's what the rest of his kit is for. You still have to point-and-shoot-and-stab, so to speak. Not the case with Mirageulor.

[armedpoop]

3 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

No, because it doesn't obliterate a room. I'm not basing anything on using only one ability in any warframe's kit, (Your comparison isn't really valid, as you're filling a job in a team role so others can do theirs, etc) I'm basing it on the fact that it completely destroys diversity. I have never seen Mirages use anything else besides Hall of Mirrors, S. Simulor and Telos Boltace. If people are committed to this setup because it's fast and it kills everything to a level where it's insane in a mindless way, then I'm really losing hope in a number of Mirage players. (On top of that, nobody can really do anything in a pub match because these combos are so fast)

Also, the other cheese tactics you mentioned aren't good comparisons either, as some of them just help other players out in killing (Spore Saryn and Banshee with Sonar) and people actually use other abilities on their kits with these frames, and I can't say the same with Mirage. 

 

So you mean to tell me that its OK to use "cheese" when it helps the team? Or does that negate the "cheese" if it helps the team? This seems pretty biased to me. 

Just because ive never seen Frosts do anything besides snowglobe should mean that I should lose hope in frost players? Or that theres no diversity in Frost players? 

 

My point of other examples, (some not named to avoid nerf herders) is that there is more than one way to wipe an entire room in an instant. Once we nerf one of them into the ground, another will shine almost instantly. Then people like you will cry out that its "insane and mindless". We will just have a repeat of this until every frame's damage abilities are useless. Then the game becomes boring for majority of the playerbase. 

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Yeah, she makes the game un-fun. When I see her with the Synoid, I just go into farm resources mode. It's not even worth trying to get a kill, might as well see if I can find a statue or get some Neural Sensors out of some lockers. Maybe her clones should act like a frost globe. Root themselves into the ground and defend an area, instead of just turing her into a mobile lawnmower.

Edited January 11, 2017 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[armedpoop]

1 minute ago, YUNoJump said:

Everything the devs do aggravates someone, no point in holding back at this point.

I do believe that we need better options for adequately defending defense targets/excavators than pretty much just Frost, but at least Frost still requires you to play the game when you use Snowglobe, and that's what the rest of his kit is for. You still have to point-and-shoot-and-stab, so to speak. Not the case with Mirageulor.

Everything the devs do aggravates someone, no point in holding back at this point.

This is a fair point. 

 

I do believe that we need better options for adequately defending defense targets/excavators than pretty much just Frost, but at least Frost still requires you to play the game when you use Snowglobe, and that's what the rest of his kit is for. You still have to point-and-shoot-and-stab, so to speak. Not the case with Mirageulor.

How are you not playing the game with Miragulor tho? I can take an ignis and do the same thing that Mirage and Simulor does, with any frame. 

[YUNoJump]

7 minutes ago, Coaa said:

I hate to say it but if I were to keep a tally of what frames I play with in endgame style missions there would only be like 5 on that list. I never see certain frames in sorties or high level survival / raids, ever. It's always the exact same frames.

Nerfing some frames truly removes them from gameplay. Outside of the random person leveling it for MR I barely ever see frames like Atlas, Banshee, Ash, Limbo etc. I could go on but it's always the same handful of frames in everything endgame.

It is a problem, there needs to be a lot of reworks to make other frames more useful not less useful.

Naturally not every frame is going to have the exact same user play time, especially at endgame, but that is probably because a lot of frames don't have a way to adequately defend themselves against endgame damage once they can't clear a room in under a second. There's also user preference of course, different people have different preferences but there are always trends (nobody likes Limbo for instance, despite his fans insisting that he can keep up with other frames). Overall it would be very hard to have every frame receive similar play time, especially since every frame is designed to be very different to the others.

I do agree that more reworks are necessary, pirate boi needs some love among many others.

I have to note that of the frames you listed as never being played, only Ash has ever received any form of big rework. I personally still see a decent number of Ashes, but now we're getting into anecdotal debating.

[White_Matter]

Where do I sign to shelf Mirage and Simulor. Because that playstyle is toxic.

[Flirk2]

For the love of God, please, stop asking to nerf everything that you don't like.

 

9 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

I use Frost exclusively for snowglobe in defense missions, is there a problem with Frost? No. 

I used Frost as an example as well once. Even went as far as doing a t3d for 20 waves solo with a bow on an unmodded Frost (not going to happen after the nullifier stared to wipe Snow Globe out of existence with a touch) without using gear and then asking, is Frost OP and in need of a nerf? Or is it just a right tool for the job?

And they said that yes, Frost is OP.

There is no stop for the Nerf Train.

People get in one or two missions with someone who was prepared to solo that mission, and they get irritated by low damage percentage, low kill count and so on enough to ask for nerfs. Doesn't really matter, was that simulor+mirage, WoF Ember, Maim Equinox, Mesa with her Peacemakers or Stomping Rhino. ''They made me feel useless''. Like, you know, there is even one player who never have been on both sides of such a situation...

[YUNoJump]

6 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

How are you not playing the game with Miragulor tho? I can take an ignis and do the same thing that Mirage and Simulor does, with any frame. 

Any other gun requires you to aim even a little bit, there is actually no way that aiming adds to Miragulor's output other than basic cardinal directions.

I imagine the Ignis does less DPS, and the Ignis still requires you to aim at enemies. Miragulor relies on being able to basically coat the area with raw omnidirectional damage.

[White_Matter]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

For the love of God, please, stop asking to nerf everything that you don't like.

 

I used Frost as an example as well once. Even went as far as doing a t3d for 20 waves solo with a bow on an unmodded Frost (not going to happen after the nullifier stared to wipe Snow Globe out of existence with a touch) without using gear and then asking, is Frost OP and in need of a nerf? Or is it just a right tool for the job?

And they said that yes, Frost is OP.

There is no stop for the Nerf Train.

People get in one or two missions with someone who was prepared to solo that mission, and they get irritated by low damage percentage, low kill count and so on enough to ask for nerfs. Doesn't really matter, was that simulor+mirage, WoF Ember, Maim Equinox, Mesa with her Peacemakers or Stomping Rhino. ''They made me feel useless''. Like, you know, there is even one player who never have been on both sides of such a situation...

This is not just something an individual "doesn't like."

This is an issue alot of people are complaining about, with rightful and rational reasons.

So take that generalization elsewhere.

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by White_Matter

[RagingGrizzly]

29 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

So you mean to tell me that its OK to use "cheese" when it helps the team? Or does that negate the "cheese" if it helps the team? This seems pretty biased to me. 

Just because ive never seen Frosts do anything besides snowglobe should mean that I should lose hope in frost players? Or that theres no diversity in Frost players? 

 

My point of other examples, (some not named to avoid nerf herders) is that there is more than one way to wipe an entire room in an instant. Once we nerf one of them into the ground, another will shine almost instantly. Then people like you will cry out that its "insane and mindless". We will just have a repeat of this until every frame's damage abilities are useless. Then the game becomes boring for majority of the playerbase. 

You and I have very different views on cheese, my friend.

With Frost, he fills out a job in a team with his snowglobe, (Def pob, excavator, etc) that doesn't mean he can't use his other abilities which will happen because Frost isn't like Mirage where the other abilities are basically useless. Frost actually has to do something.

Using the argument not to change something because it'll highlight something else is a terrible argument to make.

Bringing in other forms of cheese to counteract the argument of a change to Mirage (Even though this isn't what the thread is about, other forms of cheese has threads about them already and they will be addressed if need be) only outlines the fact that I'm basically talking to a brick wall, white-knighting for the Miragulor.

I've already put up my two cents, I'm done here.

Edited January 11, 2017 by PUR3K1LL3R

[Herosupport]

to the OP your being a prick the hole point in playing mirage is to use that ability and make aoe weapons that much better how would you feel if some troll like you went to the forums and got what made warframe fun for you nerfed into the ground?

Edited January 11, 2017 by Herosupport

[YUNoJump]

16 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

My point of other examples, (some not named to avoid nerf herders) is that there is more than one way to wipe an entire room in an instant. Once we nerf one of them into the ground, another will shine almost instantly. Then people like you will cry out that its "insane and mindless". We will just have a repeat of this until every frame's damage abilities are useless. Then the game becomes boring for majority of the playerbase. 

Other examples exist but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try and fix the most problematic examples. Miragulor does a lot of damage and can be done while moving normally, whereas most ability-based cheese stuff either relies on staying still and waiting for casting times, or does less DPS. 

[YUNoJump]

1 minute ago, Herosupport said:

to the OP your being a $&*^ the hole point in playing mirage is to use that ability and make aoe weapons that much better how would you feel if some A****** went to the forums and got what made warframe fun for you nerfed into the ground?

Sorry but I'd rather the game receives patches based on what needs fixing, rather than your personal emotions in a sea of 25 million registered losers, many of which share your exact emotions but in the opposite direction.

If that was the "whole point" of Mirage then why does she have 3 other abilities that don't primarily boost Hall of Mirrors? Mirage is a glass cannon that specialises in attacking groups, her 1 allows her to become a solo firing line with any weapon, not just AoE stuff. Normal guns still work well with it, and it also provides damage diversion. It is NOT just "make AoE weapons cheesy".

[KingNoobsta]

 

Learn to beat Mirage rather than ranting for Nerfs. 

 

original post : 

 

and ranting thread : 

 

[OvAeons]

i think you are complaining more about the meta mechanics than frames... people like easy/lazy if there is a nerf, the meta will be soon replaced. otherwise everything would just be exactly the same all the time.

[armedpoop]

6 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

You and I have very different views on cheese, my friend.

With Frost, he fills out a job in a team with his snowglobe, (Def pob, excavator, etc) that doesn't mean he can't use his other abilities which will happen because Frost isn't like Mirage where the other abilities are basically useless. Frost actually has to do something.

Bringing in other forms of cheese to counteract the argument of a change to Mirage (Even though this isn't what the thread is about, other forms of cheese has threads about them already and they will be addressed if need be) only outlines the fact that I'm basically talking to a brick wall, white-knighting for the Miragulor.

I've already put up my two cents, I'm done here.

So you ARE biased. Thats fine, but people with obvious bias really shouldnt be apart of balance discussions. At least thats what I think. 

So Snowglobe completely making you unable to fail defense missions isnt cheesy cause it helps the team? Does blowing up every enemy in a room not help the team? Mirage's other abilities being usesless is YOUR opinion. Her 4 and 3 actually are really great, especially combined with her 1. Hell, my clan still uses her in LOR from time to time for her 4 alone. Back to Frost, I dont ever push any button on him other than 3, yet I dont think hes a poor frame, or his other powers are useless. Its really a matter of perspective. 

 

You are assuming that im "whiteknighting" it just because I dont think it should be changed? I assume you also think I use Simulor+Mirage too. Feel free to check my usage stats in game when you get the chance because I dont use it. Im just sick of people wanting to nerf anything that can out damage them.

[Jakorak]

57 minutes ago, Ciaus said:

Every time I join a public game below sortie level and there's a simulor mirage, I just meditate and leave at 5. Because there is no point. It's not a game, it's "watch everything on the map disappear before it enters vision while someone uses a click macro and makes a sammich".

 

As someone who doesn't miragemulor but does focus farm, I wish convergence orbs were never added to the game. Convergence orbs put a huge pressure on focus farmers to time and execute massively wanton slaughters of the likes that make people like you bored and decide to leave early in an endless mission. People like you leaving endless missions makes less enemies spawn and makes focus farmer like me frustrated, and it's a cyclical dance of frustration that could be avoided if DE hadn't decided they needed to nerf focus gains and incentivize fever pitch 45 second slaughter fests when they implemented team based focus gains rather than just...... implementing team based focus gains in a coop game