SeaUrchins Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 There are some things clearly wrong with rescue missions (I will not mention hostage teleporting here, because it is a band-aid for the horrible follower AI). Firstly. You are escorting a hostage and after taking damage equal or exceeding their health/shield pool they enter the bleedout state, which require you either to res them or to rush and extract. Now the second choice (rush and extract) should obviously result in mission failure because the objective has not been accomplished: the hostage has not been save, they have been left on the enemy territory in bleedout state. Secondly. We know that taking excessive damage sends hostages into the bleedout state. Now, imagine the situation where the execution sequence has been initiated and you fail to open the door in time. The hostage is executed and no bleedout timer applies. This looks inconsistent to me: either hostages enter bleedout always when they take fatal damage (you can enter the cell and res them before they bleedout) or they always kick the bucket straight away. Thirdly. The hp/shields of hostages. Obviously they are alive, so they have some health pool, but why would their captors allow them to keep their shield generators in their cell block? Also, the health pool: why would their captors to feed them so good to get them so beefy? Over 1K hp, holy carp, do they give them steroids? Lastly. Holes. The "secret" passages, "hidden" so well. How come engineers who design holding areas, inspectors and wardens can't notice that there is a big damn hole right in front of their door or open ventilation or just a huge hole that renders the heavily guarded front door with mines and detectors utterly useless. It is just too visible to be allowed to exist. Do you see these problems too or am I just too picky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 You're just too picky. It's a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuestenjung Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Don´t know if serious or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Xaevryn Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Well there is such a thing as "suspension of disbelief" which I recommend trying. But the mental image of a ultra highsec grineer gulag that is extremely well guarded having a massive unwatched crater in the ceiling while all the guards are trying their hardest to purposefully ignore said crater made me chuckle. "IF I CAN'T SEE IT, IT ISN'T THERE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyori Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 They make it like capture, digitalizied the rescued fellow... Wait, digitalizied someone doesn't make sense lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComCray Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 I agree. I understand the need for alternative routes but some of those are just blatantly silly. Making the whole idea of maximum security redicilous. As for the healthpool and shields.. Yes, you're right there too. Understandable from a gamey perspective, killing for that SoD you were on about. And don't get me started on the AI. Made a post in feedback about this last night. They truly are rage-inducing stupid. Pretty much forcing you to cheese the mission. If anything, rescue in it's current state is a waste of good potential.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 An extract from TVTropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AcceptableBreaksFromReality page: "A willing suspension of disbelief is a must for almost any work of fiction. There are certain elements of story or gameplay where realism would simply make a work tedious, difficult, or confusing for the audience. Thus there are ways in which works will be blatantly, unabashedly unrealistic, and nobody really minds." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) No, no, I am not talking about realism, don't get me wrong. I am talking about consistency. If hostage doesn't die from lethal damage, but enters bleedout, it should apply in the cell as well. If enemies are locking the prisoner holding area, they should isolate it (not put a locked door next to visible huge hole under it), it is asking for consistency, not realism. Realism in games is too relative to care about. Edited February 19, 2017 by SeaUrchins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibliothekar Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 9 minutes ago, SeaUrchins said: No, no, I am not talking about realism, don't get me wrong. I am talking about consistency. If hostage doesn't die from lethal damage, but enters bleedout, it should apply in the cell as well. Except in one situation the hostage goes down from bullets, in the other because the cell was gassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said: Except in one situation the hostage goes down from bullets, in the other because the cell was gassed. It the hostage is downed by mutalist osprey gas attack, they still enter bleedout stage, therefore the gas theory is still inconsistent. (Not to mention you can see the hostage standing inside the cell "dead" with idle animation if you open the room last second) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Why not just ask for additional 20seconds time to rescue the hostage? Would have made things way less complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailissa Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 In a game, set in space, where we play as centuries old teenagers with super powers given to them by the warp that can take control of frames designed to channel their power and go on mass killing sprees. A game where you can shoot fire, lightning or ice from your hands. A game where you collect an arsenal that would make North Korea jealous. In a game where physics is your beach ..... you chose to nit pick a shortcut in a level design..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 We do have a precedent then some Survival Missions have been changed to Excavations, because players have been so busy making fun of a lack of air on Earth that they forgot to shoot or activate life support. But I still do think that you are too picky in this case :) No bleedout state in cell? If you will see hostage bleeding out, you will know what cell to open. Besides, hostage suit can have it's power source removed and you can bring them a battery to recharge it, so it can have a shield and life-support system back on. Prisons with holes in the walls? Well, considering the amount of players who manage to miss them anyways... Working as intended. And so on. Can you explain what would you like to see changed so it makes sense to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just now, rand0mname said: If you will see hostage bleeding out, you will know what cell to open. False. If you approach the cell (or the right terminal in case of Lua) where the hostage is located, he will notify you shouting "I am here" or "let me out". Which brings another interesting issue: how does he know it is Tenno at his door and not just some warden. Ah, wait, it is done exactly to let you know precisely where he is. Thence you can't really use that excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rand0mname Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just now, SeaUrchins said: False. If you approach the cell (or the right terminal in case of Lua) where the hostage is located, he will notify you shouting "I am here" or "let me out". Which brings another interesting issue: how does he know it is Tenno at his door and not just some warden. Ah, wait, it is done exactly to let you know precisely where he is. Thence you can't really use that excuse. Are you sure? I never heard hostage screaming if alarm have not been triggered (aside from Lua). Wiki: "Upon reaching 15 seconds left on the timer, the hostage will bang on the door of the cell they are locked behind, followed by them calling out to the Tenno, alerting them of his/her location". Why they call for Tenno? Gunfire, sirens, explosions, general excitement and gas filling a chamber will clue the hostage that someone is trying to rescue them. As for Lua: a big portal opening up in the room may be a hint? Because, as Lotus says, it will open only in two cases: a) Orokin authorities arrived or b) someone come to rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyrannicaltyrant Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Lost me at the term "band aid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)BrutalReaper32 Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 If DE fixes the AI problems, I would love to see that Rescue missions are like the one from the mastery rank tests: The mission is set on a big open area with enemies patrolling with specific routes. Then to make the mission a bit longer, you would have to make other objectives before getting to the cell (like hacking some terminals to disable movement sensors, open doors and stuff like that). Once you do this without anyone activating the alarms (which here can be done by pressing a single button they have always with them) you can go to the holding area, which will be a bit more smaller place where you have to check where the operative is, instead of guards, there will be a combination of security devices like movement sensors, infrared cameras (that obviously can see invisible frames), lasers, etc... and other lethal traps like explosives, floor traps, electricity, fire, etc... (which I want to deal massive damage even to tank warframes). When you get the operative it would be nice that you could try to get him safe without nobody noticing his scape, or fight your way out. But if you fight, the enemies would get a lot of reinforcements (including a miniboss) and then you would have to fight about 3 minutes (not allowing the operative to get downed) And when these 3 minutes pass, your landing craft will get there to pick you up along the operative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damuranashi Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 So your problem is that rescue missions can be done. Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azlen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 You can say you aren't asking for realism all you want. That doesn't mean it's not what you are asking for. 'How does he know it's me outside the door?' He's screaming for his life. He doesn't know it's tenno. He just knows that Tenno do the saving. When you are trapped in a burning building i'm sure you'd scream for the fire department if you knew they were outside, and not for Mr. Incredible. And your 'they should enter bleedout state' call for realism (because that's what it is)? Fine, they do. The last 15 seconds of any given gassing, they are in their 'bleedout' state, it's just not shown because once you open the door, air rushes in and they can breath again. I swear people take this space ninja wizard game way too seriously sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaUrchins Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, Azlen said: You can say you aren't asking for realism all you want. Why would I lie though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OffaLimb Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 And here I thought the problems were going to include something nit-picky like we leave the hostage standing at extraction.... Those mission success end screens with the hostage standing there watching us leave have always amused me. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure we are rescuing multiple agents, we must be rescuing the same agent over and over again. That horde of enemies we jumped past to get to our ship will be right there to recapture them. That also explains why the prison has secret passage and ways to easily get in. Why go to the trouble to make it secure when they can just grab the prisoner at extraction and throw them back in their cell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now