A few words on the Hema from someone who buys plat

[rudman88]

all you need is a nekros, hydroid and a booster. 462 in 40 wave ( 1 RUN )

it doesnt matter your clan is big or small.

Optimum number is 500 mutagen sample. if 50% are active, each emmber need to farm double of it. if only 1/10 are active, farm 10 times more of it.

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

3 hours ago, rudman88 said:

all you need is a nekros, hydroid and a booster. 462 in 40 wave ( 1 RUN )

it doesnt matter your clan is big or small.

Optimum number is 500 mutagen sample. if 50% are active, each emmber need to farm double of it. if only 1/10 are active, farm 10 times more of it.

Okay what about clans that have a significantly lower active percentage? or smaller clans like mine which has two people in it and that's it? Or the people who don't have hydroid/nekros or platinum for boosters?

Seriously, expecting every player to have everything that's best for farming is unrealistic and poor game design. It's also saying "Hey there's only one reasonable way to do this, and if you aren't willing to do it, screw you.".

[rudman88]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Unlucky1307 said:

Okay what about clans that have a significantly lower active percentage? or smaller clans like mine which has two people in it and that's it? Or the people who don't have hydroid/nekros or platinum for boosters?

if you dont have nekros or hydroid that means you are half way through, why you want to farm for hema ? farm that 2 frame first.

if you got small clan of 2 ppl, each of you need to farm 2500 each.

so you got 2 choice, one is farm 2500 each or add 8 more people so you can farm 500 each only.

 

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Unlucky1307 said:

Okay what about clans that have a significantly lower active percentage? or smaller clans like mine which has two people in it and that's it? Or the people who don't have hydroid/nekros or platinum for boosters?

Seriously, expecting every player to have everything that's best for farming is unrealistic and poor game design. It's also saying "Hey there's only one reasonable way to do this, and if you aren't willing to do it, screw you.".

 

1. welcome to warframe, it has grinding and it has RNG, any game that has RNG is a grinding game

2. they expect you to have because it is already there, start making them

3. That is how the world works. You have a choice to do or not to do. If you dont want then dont do

 

 

 

[Temragon]

Removed by user

Edited February 28, 2017 by Temragon

[Ditto132]

On 23/02/2017 at 9:38 PM, The_Doc said:

Sadly, I simply cannot believe them. They also said they would never base resource requirements around loot abilities, and no sane person would ever consider 500 samples to be a reasonable cost without meta farming frames.

They also said "no more prime guns that require prime guns to craft" after AkBronco Prime, yet we got AkLex Prime.

Trust and reputation both are as important as earning profits.
Let wait for more players to feel the pain when

• Eximus with weak point is implemented poorly (Sorry, no Damage 3.0)
• Future prime item values got reduced when more Relics got introduced
• New infested weapon got released that required Hema research
• More conclave/PvP events (read that most players hated it, but well DE thinks it is a good addition)

That is, if players don't mind waiting till things got out of hand to be possible to fix.

On 24/02/2017 at 4:13 PM, rudman88 said:

is not that hard to farm as every1 said.

500 mutagen sample can easily be farmed in odd and ods. if u use booster with hydoid and nekros, in 50 mins you will get 460 mutagen sample

There you go, I bold and color it for you.
Oh refer to this too:

On 25/02/2017 at 3:18 PM, Ditto132 said:

Previously, I am being polite by saying things like:
"Those are not solutions but bypasses and exploits, they doesn't fix the issue at all"

But I had enough! Going to let some steam off. 

I been holding this back for months... wanting to respond to statements of such forms:
"Buy booster, get meta squad, go farm. Problem solved"
"Farm primes, sell for plat, buy with plat. Problem solved"
"Reduce clan size. go join other clans. invite more members. Problem solved"

with examples such as:
"No money to pay for your ever increasing rent? Rent will not be reduced. Go be a prostitute. Problem solved"
"Taxes have increased? No point complaining. Go take up another job and work till you drop dead. Problem solved"
"Ducat values reduced? DE not going to honour your Ducats, don't complaining. Go farm more Ducats by farming more Relics to crack open. Problem solved"

 

On 24/02/2017 at 10:10 PM, rudman88 said:

Just like cancer cell in your body, each time you leave it, every other cell will be affected and your body will be unhealthy.

Similarly with this issue:
"Just like cancer cell content in your body the game, each time you leave it ignore the issue, every other cell future contents will be affected and your body the game will be unhealthy."

Edited February 28, 2017 by Ditto132
Typos

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

Clan too small
too many inactive/useless users in clan
hard to farm mutagen

manage your clan people clan is suppose to work on this, not the leader taking all the effort.

The problem i see here is 
"I want it NOW but i don't want to spend plat/too much time" attitude.

and seriously?
complaining about the farm in a farming game?

 

[Ta10S]

To define the game as farming game doesn't justify the insane amount.

 

[ChuckMaverick]

7 hours ago, rudman88 said:

all you need is a nekros, hydroid and a booster. 462 in 40 wave ( 1 RUN )

it doesnt matter your clan is big or small.

Optimum number is 500 mutagen sample. if 50% are active, each emmber need to farm double of it. if only 1/10 are active, farm 10 times more of it.

Don't forget the EV Trinity and speed Nova used in that run as well.

Content shouldn't be balanced around boosters, so let's remove the effects of the drop chance and drop amount boosters (x4), now we're looking at 115.5 mutagen samples for that run.

DE have also said that content wouldn't be balanced around 'loot frames', so let's remove the effects of those too (Hydroid x2, Nekros x1.54), now we're looking at 37.5 samples for that run.

So when we're looking at the sort of numbers that the Hema research should be balanced for, it's about 40 mutagen samples per hour, and even that is ignoring the effect of the speed Nova in speeding up the run.

Now consider that not all clans are full, let's assume that clans are 50% full for their tier; also not all players in a clan are active, again let's assume 50% activity.

You're looking at a target of 2000 mutagen samples per active player, or 50 hours of doing nothing but farming mutagen samples.

The average Warframe player plays for less than 2 hours per week (source - median time played in last 2 weeks: 3 hours 32 mins).

So for the average Warframe player, Hema research will take 6 months, of doing nothing but farming mutagen samples.

 

Tell me again how easy or reasonable it is...

[Monolake]

4 hours ago, rudman88 said:

if you dont have nekros or hydroid that means you are half way through, why you want to farm for hema ? farm that 2 frame first.

if you got small clan of 2 ppl, each of you need to farm 2500 each.

so you got 2 choice, one is farm 2500 each or add 8 more people so you can farm 500 each only.

 

 

1. welcome to warframe, it has grinding and it has RNG, any game that has RNG is a grinding game

2. they expect you to have because it is already there, start making them

3. That is how the world works. You have a choice to do or not to do. If you dont want then dont do

 

 

 

How can you even justify enormous grindwall that requires specific frames AND paying for boosters on top of all the grind?

AND punishing active players for inactives!  just like DE you dont get it - 500 samples per person is not that huge right, but it becomes huge when you realize that most clans dont have 100% active players and 50 people have to farm day and night for the other 250. If it was a crafting cost  making everyone pay 500 samples for themselves that would be high but reasonable. Making active players suffer for inactives/empty spots in a clan is only killing the clans and burning out players, it's unacceptable. DE made a mistake but they have become too stuck up to listen to our feedback and fix it. Unacceptable

 

[13QZXXTTX]

Hema RIP 2017, unless Medical use Defibrillator, Hema is more annoying.

Well to the Clans who got it done, good for you mate, I really can't sit in the Void for another 100 hours, nor chill in ODD for a long time. 

But hey man, if DE get the funny idea, might as well make Hema Mastery Rank Requirement high, Rank 15. Just thoughts. 1,000 of that "thing" should be enough, and researching should not be over 500 of rare resource, maybe I need to do another 1,000 hours in WarFrame. 

 

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

22 hours ago, rudman88 said:

if you dont have nekros or hydroid that means you are half way through, why you want to farm for hema ? farm that 2 frame first.

if you got small clan of 2 ppl, each of you need to farm 2500 each.

so you got 2 choice, one is farm 2500 each or add 8 more people so you can farm 500 each only.

1. welcome to warframe, it has grinding and it has RNG, any game that has RNG is a grinding game

2. they expect you to have because it is already there, start making them

3. That is how the world works. You have a choice to do or not to do. If you dont want then dont do

 

 

 

I had both, and my friend had nekros. Adding more people would just take away from the fun of it, I don't want to have a CLAN with random people I don't know, I want my clan to be reserved for me and my friends.

Before I cover your points since based on your comments you probably didn't read it in my first post, I already farmed the Hema with my friend and it was so awful that we barely even want to log in for the sorties at this point because we're so burnt out.

1. Warframe is a loot based game, but having to grind ONE OR TWO missions SPECIFICALLY for 10-100+ hours is unacceptable game design. I've even played MMOs that are less hellish than this. (Sure some things in them may take 100+ hours, but you can vary how you do it.)

2. They should not expect every player to have every frame when they release new content. That's just not thinking clearly. What about new players? New clans? People who only play a little bit each week/on weekends only?

3. You're right there, but by having a painful and irritating wall that drives customers away, including the PAYING ONES, that's going to lead to DE losing players and thus money, which is bad for both the players and the developers.

19 hours ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

Clan too small
too many inactive/useless users in clan
hard to farm mutagen

manage your clan people clan is suppose to work on this, not the leader taking all the effort.

The problem i see here is 
"I want it NOW but i don't want to spend plat/too much time" attitude.

and seriously?
complaining about the farm in a farming game?

 

Small clans are pretty common, mine is a good example (I only invite friends and currently only one friend of mine has a ps4 and played with me regularly) inactive/"useless" members are a very common thing in larger clans, and it's not exactly easy to tell who has contributed to something and who hasn't.

Mutagens being hard to farm is fine, as long as ludicrous amounts of them aren't needed for things (But oh look, you need 5000 if you're a ghost clan even if you only have 2 members...)

Managing your clan isn't that easy, you try creating and running a large one (especially on a console version of the game.) and let me know how fast you can get the Hema researched.

The problem is not "I want it now but don't want to spend plat or time" as I've covered before, I buy plat and regularly blow it on things I don't want to farm, and I farmed the Hema research with my friend because I refused to pay into a weapon that is this abusive to the average player.

To reiterate that point I HAVE RESEARCHED AND USED THE HEMA WITHOUT SPENDING PLAT BUT BUY PLAT.

Complaining about farming? Not hardly. Farming is a bit of work, such as maybe getting equinox. But the Hema? That is an abusive grindwall from hell that should not exist, even in a game centered around farming/gathering resources.

20 hours ago, Ditto132 said:

Trust and reputation both are as important as earning profits.
Let wait for more players to feel the pain when

• Eximus with weak point is implemented poorly (Sorry, no Damage 3.0)
• Future prime item values got reduced when more Relics got introduced
• New infested weapon got released that required Hema research
• More conclave/PvP events (read that most players hated it, but well DE thinks it is a good addition)

Profits come above all for a company, and I understand that. But if they continue on their path of ignoring player feedback like you gave examples of they're quickly going to lose profits due to players not trusting them and feeling like their opinions are worthless. They're essentially trading in their good reputation for a quick buck, and if they do it too much and don't backpedal pretty soon they're going to see just how poor of a decision it is to ignore the community.

[Zaniel_Aus]

On 23/02/2017 at 3:03 PM, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

DE won't be lowering the cost of the Hema research. For one reason is the sake of the clans that either has already started or finished building the Hema. Wouldnt be fair if a clan wasted literally all of their mutagen finishing the Hema only to have reduced the cost of it later. Players would be highly upset. But don't worry. DE isn't going to do this again with new weapons. They said it in a devstream. But I still encourage clans to finish it even though the weapon isn't all that great. There will definitely be a weapon in the future that will require the Hema research

Sibear? Hello? They said EXACTLY the same thing about that.

[Helljack84]

7 hours ago, Zaniel_Aus said:

Sibear? Hello? They said EXACTLY the same thing about that.

They also said they won't do unannounced ducat value nerfs again...three times? 

 

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

13 hours ago, Helljack84 said:

They also said they won't do unannounced ducat value nerfs again...three times? 

 

Huh, I didn't even know about all that.