A few words on the Hema from someone who buys plat

[TheChaotic1]

Honestly I think it should be left alone, but never have anything like it again.

The hema isn't so important that everyone must have it, and there is always new mastery to be had 

[Skaleek]

17 hours ago, JSharpie said:

Don't hurt yourself trying to beat that dead horse.

free upvotes though.... free upvotes...

Edited February 23, 2017 by Skaleek

[AceOfCayde]

I'm honestly embarrassed to speak of how much plat I've purchased, but I'm glad to support the game. I bought Hema with plat and thought it was a decent weapon, but I'm the Warlord of my clan, which has mostly fairly new players, and I know most of them don't want to waste the little plat they are able to earn on an alright non-prime weapon. There are only about 3 or 4 people in my clan, including myself, capable of filling a role on a farming team to get a slightly above mediocre amount of mutagen, and that's just not enough to earn 15k mutagen in a reasonable amount of time without giving up on the real world.

That has always been my complaint about the matter, because I want to provide the best you can get from being in a clan, but it truly is a dead horse at this point. DE has made their decision on the matter, and there's nothing more to do about it.

What you can do is hope that they don't make similarly ridiculous research requirements in the future, and if they do don't buy the item with plat. It's too late for Hema, but if they don't make nearly as much money as they expect to on any new item, they are more likely to reevaluate their requirements.

[Liminal]

5 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Honestly I think it should be left alone, but never have anything like it again.

Well yeah, if there was some sort of guarantee that something like this wouldn't ever... ever happen again and if they made an unbreakable vow saying that the Hema won't be a requirement for anything else... then I'd consider spending money on WF again.

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

5 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Honestly I think it should be left alone, but never have anything like it again.

The hema isn't so important that everyone must have it, and there is always new mastery to be had 

I don't view it as something that should be left alone, because there's always the chance for future weapons to require it. Also as of right now it is the ONLY primary weapon that heals, and the ONLY gun with built in healing. It's not a must have, but it's pretty close when you take that into consideration.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

is HEMA that good of a weapon?
 

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

1 hour ago, (PS4)wildcats1369my said:

is HEMA that good of a weapon?
 

High damage, high status chance, heals on headshots without any mods. Yes, it's that good and it being difficult to obtain would be understandable, but not THIS difficult.

[Monolake]

10 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Honestly I think it should be left alone, but never have anything like it again.

The hema isn't so important that everyone must have it, and there is always new mastery to be had 

It will continue to hurt all the barely-active clans and all the new clans and players who would create new clans.

And then DE will continue to ignore feedback and refuse to correct their mistakes too.

[rudman88]

good thign about hema :

45 dmg / shot ( viral )

25% status chance

10% heal on head shot

no need to pick up ammo

 

bad thing

it suck 3% of hp to reload

7.% crit

 

how to use it :

jsut keep head shotting LOL.

viral with high proc can make hp drop alot xd

 

is not that hard to farm as every1 said.

 

500 mutagen sample can easily be farmed in odd and ods. if u use booster with hydoid and nekros, in 50 mins you will get 460 mutagen sample

[Repligon]

12 hours ago, TheChaotic1 said:

Honestly I think it should be left alone

Just look at Sibear. People stopped complaining about ridiculous cryotic cost and then we had Vauban P and oxium, then Trinity P and cryotic again. Now it's Hema pushig grind to the skies. And that's your fault. It's fault of everyone who agitated against complainig and espeshially the ones who supported this S#&$ with their wallet.

Now just wait for the next bio-lab weapon. I bet it's going to require Hema researched.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by Repligon

[(PSN)HSomDevil]

On 23.2.2017 at 5:42 AM, (PS4)Unlucky1307 said:

I've also just bought platinum when it wasn't on sale

I think it's commendable that you want to support a game you like but this... just, why?

(sorry for being off-topic)

[Liminal]

5 hours ago, rudman88 said:

 

 

500 mutagen sample can easily be farmed in odd and ods. if u use booster with hydoid and nekros, in 50 mins you will get 460 mutagen sample

I wouldn't tell anyone to read the entirety of the Hema thread, but at the very least skimming through part of it, or checking out other arguments about it on reddit would have given you an idea of the arguments that have come up, many of which deal with what you have said.

Edited February 24, 2017 by The_Doc

[rudman88]

9 minutes ago, The_Doc said:

I wouldn't tell anyone to read the entirety of the Hema thread, but at the very least skimming through part of it, or checking out other arguments about it on reddit would have given you an idea of the arguments that have come up, many of which deal with what you have said.

 

stop being lazy and keep following people just because they type it.

warframe forum has ALOT OF KEYBOARD WARRIORS. Especially those flamers who say : Thats why i stop playign warframe.

you need to learn to read people comment.

If u really look at it carefully, not ALL of it not happy with it. Some are happy and alot of people already accomplish it. My clan accomplish it in 3 days. I myself contribute my part in 2 hour.

 

How hard it is to go farm ODD 40 mins. for 200 mutagen sample ?

at most you take 100 mins to cover your own share.

If divide it properly, as long as your clan full capacity, each person need to farm 500 mutagen sample. That is 100 mins without any booster. thats only 2 hours ODD

those keyboard warriors can spend hours in forum but cant farm ? what is wrong with them ?

 

Tough luck for those clan that has alot of inactive.

As i have typed many times before, a clan is a family, if you cant contribute, you should man up and leave.

if you want to keep those slackers, man up and farm for their share.

I farm for my friend who is inactive as it is my duty to do so.

 

 

Just like cancer cell in your body, each time you leave it, every other cell will be affected and your body will be unhealthy.

sames goes to this thing, if every clan member is a cancer who cant contribute, slowly other people will not contribute because it is too tiring to do so.

 

I admit the figure is crazy but it is not impossible.

 

Its almost 2 months and what makes you think DE will change when majority already has it ?

 

This hema is a good indication whether is your clan worth spending your time or it is time to move on.

 

 

[Liminal]

On 24/02/2017 at 11:10 AM, rudman88 said:

 

stop being lazy and keep following people just because they type it.

warframe forum has ALOT OF KEYBOARD WARRIORS. Especially those flamers who say : Thats why i stop playign warframe.

you need to learn to read people comment.

If u really look at it carefully, not ALL of it not happy with it. Some are happy and alot of people already accomplish it. My clan accomplish it in 3 days. I myself contribute my part in 2 hour.

 

How hard it is to go farm ODD 40 mins. for 200 mutagen sample ?

at most you take 100 mins to cover your own share.

If divide it properly, as long as your clan full capacity, each person need to farm 500 mutagen sample. That is 100 mins without any booster. thats only 2 hours ODD

those keyboard warriors can spend hours in forum but cant farm ? what is wrong with them ?

 

Tough luck for those clan that has alot of inactive.

As i have typed many times before, a clan is a family, if you cant contribute, you should man up and leave.

if you want to keep those slackers, man up and farm for their share.

I farm for my friend who is inactive as it is my duty to do so.

 

 

Just like cancer cell in your body, each time you leave it, every other cell will be affected and your body will be unhealthy.

sames goes to this thing, if every clan member is a cancer who cant contribute, slowly other people will not contribute because it is too tiring to do so.

 

I admit the figure is crazy but it is not impossible.

 

Its almost 2 months and what makes you think DE will change when majority already has it ?

 

This hema is a good indication whether is your clan worth spending your time or it is time to move on.

 

 

"stop being lazy and keep following people just because they type it"?

Whatever the hell that means, here's the short version:

• 500+ MS cannot be gathered by "just playing".
• MS can only be acquired in significant numbers in one tileset, with one enemy faction.
• MS can only be acquired in significant numbers in two mission types.
• DE said they didn't want people playing the same node over and over, yet that is exactly what they make us do here.
• Most clans are not 100% full.
• Most clans are not 100% active.
• Hema costs ~100x more MS than every other item.
• Hema costs ~10x more MS than every other item combined.
• If you disagree with something you shouldn't give them money for it (otherwise you're a hypocrite and you are encouraging them to pull stuff like that again).
• Resource costs shouldn't be balanced around boosters.
• Resource costs shouldn't be balanced around meta farming frames (DE said they never would be but alas).
• Hema could very well end up being a requirement for future research.
• The logic of "let's honor those who already farmed it" is incoherent with every significant change and nerf they've done in the past (and some they did after, like the riven cap).
• Shutting up now would mean everyone could just forget about it, potentially clearing the way for more BS like this in the future.

Edited February 27, 2017 by The_Doc

[Praxxor]

On 2/23/2017 at 7:52 AM, YUNoJump said:

IIRC they said they were looking at changing how Mutagen products are received rather than changing the cost of the Hema, which would be a decent solution if they actually did it. Even without the Hema's existence, the fact that Mutagen Mass drops in smaller sets for no reason at all, and Mutagen Samples only drop from 2 places (one of which requires keys and the other has them as a rare drop), is just dumb, and glaringly out-of-date with the game's current mechanics.

I can understand having the Hema costs existing to create an actual challenge, but having that challenge manifest as "farm a whole bunch" is just detrimental to player experience, especially when the items in question are only rare because of dumb dated systems.

They scrapped that too, that's why people are mad. Steve himself said that there are absolutely no more plans regarding Hema or Mutagen Samples.

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

18 hours ago, Repligon said:

Just look at Sibear. People stopped complaining about ridiculous cryotic cost and then we had Vauban P and oxium, then Trinity P and cryotic again. Now it's Hema pushig grind to the skies. And that's your fault. It's fault of everyone who agitated against complainig and espeshially the ones who supported this S#&$ with their wallet.

Now just wait for the next bio-lab weapon. I bet it's going to require Hema researched.

 

Sibear isn't bad, neither is trinity P, Vauban P is a little annoying with the nitain, but the oxium isn't that bad.

 

13 hours ago, rudman88 said:

How hard it is to go farm ODD 40 mins. for 200 mutagen sample ?

at most you take 100 mins to cover your own share.

If divide it properly, as long as your clan full capacity, each person need to farm 500 mutagen sample. That is 100 mins without any booster. thats only 2 hours ODD

those keyboard warriors can spend hours in forum but cant farm ? what is wrong with them ?

 

What about the ghost clans who have less than 10 members? Or large clans that just don't have active players? Should the active ones just leave, which will cause clans to fall apart and the community to become less united?

Each player gets about 240 per HOUR doing 20 minute runs, (This was with a 2 man squad with hydroid+nekros btw) which means at minimum over 2 hours of farming (not counting downtime) if you have a maxed out clan with 100% participation. That's all well and good, if clans were all maxed out and had 100% participation. Now take into account clans like mine which has only 2 people to get 5,000 mutagen samples. That's about 10 and a half hours straight farming (not including time between missions) for 2 people. When using farming frames. That is unacceptable and a very unpleasant experience.

Again this is coming from my viewpoint where I happily spend money on platinum to support the game, and I went out and farmed for the Hema in a ghost clan I'm in with one friend, which is something reasonable to expect with small groups of friends who play on weekends and such.

[Helljack84]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Unlucky1307 said:

Sibear isn't bad, neither is trinity P, Vauban P is a little annoying with the nitain, but the oxium isn't that bad.

Yep, can't really complain about the oxium requirements. Do you know about old oxium droprates? Which were changed after numerous complaints? 

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

On 2/25/2017 at 5:54 AM, Helljack84 said:

Yep, can't really complain about the oxium requirements. Do you know about old oxium droprates? Which were changed after numerous complaints? 

Oh yes, I remember those dark days. I'm so glad they changed it and wish they would at least give a similar though less extreme treatment to mutagen samples.

[Ampoth]

Warlord of a Ghost clan here, long time vet, and though I've given up hope that DE will make smart decisions I'm going to chime in here.

All of the other players in my clan are inactive, and I even pruned us down to a ghost clan from a shadow so that I could attempt to complete the Hema research myself. Despite having played for years I only had a paltry ~1500 samples when the hema dropped, and now need to acquire 3500 more. I've been trying to find farming groups, but that's impossible, no one is farming for this unless they're a clan working towards it together, so I have to farm them solo, or in Public ODDs. I'm getting them at roughly 1 a minute of playtime and that means I'm going to have to farm them for just shy of 60 hours to complete the research.

This is basically impossible, I'm going to burn out on the game if I do the same thing for 60 hours. The Hema cost either needs to be lowered, or the mutagen sample drop amount/rate needs to be increased, there is nothing else in clan research that even compares to this amount of grind. Halving the amount of grind would still be a significant grind. This was clearly another DE mistake that they've stubbornly decided to keep, and players are going to keep bring it up because it's clearly a bad decision.

[-Ba-ikebothun]

Being the warlord of a mountain clan that has finished the research I want this research cost lowered. I don't want other clans to have to go through the farming pain. I can say the same for other warlord's of allied clans. 

[Temragon]

The theoretical per-player cost could be retained while shifting the majority (not all) of the cost from research to production.

This would alleviate issues with clan activity and not being at 100% tier population (100% tier/100% activity is not a reasonable "ideal" cost point), without requiring refunds to anyone.

I'm glad to continue promoting reasonable changes to the Hema until they happen. "Beating a dead horse" is a worthless attempt at dismissal.

[k05h]

5 hours ago, Ampoth said:

I've been trying to find farming groups, but that's impossible, no one is farming for this unless they're a clan working towards it together, so I have to farm them solo, or in Public ODDs.

If you do it in the evenings you should find someone to join. I am in the European region and I always find groups to join. In the rare occasions I do not find anyone I just start my own group and find a few people in the recruiting chat. - Saturday and Sunday morning to my surprise are also good time slots.

5 hours ago, Ampoth said:

I'm getting them at roughly 1 a minute of playtime and that means I'm going to have to farm them for just shy of 60 hours to complete the research.

That number is accurate if you do not use a drop rate and drop chance booster. If you use both you get 2-3 per minute. I am not saying that you should use a booster but just putting this into perspective with what other people tend to claim about the drop rate. 

I run a solo clan and farmed nearly 7k because I also need lots of samples to build mutagen masses for the other weapons. The Caustacyst alone needs 100 samples (10 mass) to build and 30 to research.

My strategy to stay sane while farming this amount: Every once in a while I have farm days when I buy a 3 day drop rate booster and occasionally a 3 day drop chance booster. I farm kuva, neural sensors and mutagen mass (plus neurodes and orokin cells) on these days. Doing ODD is not that boring. Just start a chat about Hema and you will have 3 new friends. 

[Chroia]

On 2/23/2017 at 8:49 PM, k05h said:

And when I look through my excess resources

Given that this is pretty much how Steve said they decided on the Hema's cost...

[hr18]

If only it was 500*player and not 500*maximum player count in a clan...

I'm missing ~3500 samples so...

Usually try run one 20 wave ODD per day and get 15-35 samples (nekros with slash weapon without any boosters)

(If I were to buy booster to farm the weapon I could as well buy the darn thing with plat and be done with it.)

At that rate it takes 100-233 days to get remaining samples if I were to do that every day >_>

[(PSN)Unlucky1307]

18 hours ago, Temragon said:

The theoretical per-player cost could be retained while shifting the majority (not all) of the cost from research to production.

This would alleviate issues with clan activity and not being at 100% tier population (100% tier/100% activity is not a reasonable "ideal" cost point), without requiring refunds to anyone.

I'm glad to continue promoting reasonable changes to the Hema until they happen. "Beating a dead horse" is a worthless attempt at dismissal.

I dislike that idea, as a lot of players have dumped most/all of their mutagen samples into hema research and have not yet finished the research, so shifting the cost like that would be HUGELY detrimental to any people/clans in that scenario. It would have been a great idea if it was like that from the start, but at this point the research cost just needs cut down by a ton, or the mutagen drops need to be MASSIVELY increased. (Though the second option would throw off the balance of researching everything else in the bio lab, which would be a bad time.)

 

21 hours ago, Ampoth said:

Warlord of a Ghost clan here, long time vet, and though I've given up hope that DE will make smart decisions I'm going to chime in here.

All of the other players in my clan are inactive, and I even pruned us down to a ghost clan from a shadow so that I could attempt to complete the Hema research myself. Despite having played for years I only had a paltry ~1500 samples when the hema dropped, and now need to acquire 3500 more. I've been trying to find farming groups, but that's impossible, no one is farming for this unless they're a clan working towards it together, so I have to farm them solo, or in Public ODDs. I'm getting them at roughly 1 a minute of playtime and that means I'm going to have to farm them for just shy of 60 hours to complete the research.

This is basically impossible, I'm going to burn out on the game if I do the same thing for 60 hours. The Hema cost either needs to be lowered, or the mutagen sample drop amount/rate needs to be increased, there is nothing else in clan research that even compares to this amount of grind. Halving the amount of grind would still be a significant grind. This was clearly another DE mistake that they've stubbornly decided to keep, and players are going to keep bring it up because it's clearly a bad decision.

I've been around for quite a while too, honestly now that console players are feeling the pain of farming the hema I'm hoping maybe DE will listen and change their mind about it. With me plus my friend who are the only two in my clan we managed to get roughly 3-4 mutagen samples per minute without boosters on (we ran pilfering hydroid and nekros on ODS though...) and even with both of us contributing it was a painful experience. Though I will say I managed to get a group together for farming samples in recruiting chat when my friend was offline and I felt up for some farming.

Burnout has happened though. I've basically only logged in to throw a couple formas onto the Hema, do daily sorties, and sometimes run a mission if there's a good alert up. And that's from playing 4-8 (sometimes even more...) hours a day for about 2 months until I finished the hema research. That repetitive grind just wore me down and demotivated me, especially since they're taking such a hard stance on it after the endless player feedback.