Ideas to make PvP more playable - It has potential!

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

Conclave doesn't need anymore content, what it needs is some serious balancing and fix. No one enjoys trying to shoot down a monkey moving maniac, no one enjoys it when the guy in the opposing team starts to inv his friends over just to faceroll you in a 4v2 or 3v1, no one enjoys the fact that a bow can 1 shot you but a sniper takes 2-3 shots to kill someone, the bows have ridiculous hitbox, players can abuse abilities in conclave, no one enjoys trying to collect their kills (Oro) and end up having the opponent stealing it. Every kill in the conclave is a lucky shot when players are moving around like a monkey

These are some of the reasons why majority of the player base don't enjoy conclave, add in with players who teabag their opponents after every kill.

It needs both more content AND more balance. A lot do enjoy playing against ninjas because it's challenging, people like challenging games hence why Counter Strike and Dota 2 are some of the most popular games in the world. If you take the time to learn the game and get better at it you will. Agreed, bows need some changes in PvP, but yeah while they one shot they also have a charge time and are unforgiving, you miss that one shot and you're dead against a decent player. Abilities are actually underused in Conclave, but there are some that can be abused. On the contrary, not every kill is lucky, it actually takes skill to hit a highly mobile target. Although, like you said, with bows a lot of the time luck might have something to do with it because they're one hit kill.

[DxAdder]

PvP and AW have the same issues, both unfinished, both have nothing to do with the main part of the game and most importantly..

NOTHING rewarding for doing them.

 

 

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

7 hours ago, Irixa said:

I, like most of the playerbase, do not enjoy it. Warframe is too fast paced I think; and well...IT HAS PLAYER SERVERS. :c instant advantage to the host, disadvantage to other players.

 

Next: Oro. Just let kills be kills, I do not like Oro scavengers who knock you off the top 3 when you clearly had more kills but they stole Oro.

 

And Warframe was made for PvE, they're just trying really hard to attempt PvP.

Agreed, oro is outdated. They should provide dedicated servers as well. As for the fast pace, some enjoy it some don't, that's why the addition of a grineer vs. corpus mode was suggested in this thread.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

 

[Salenstormwing]

1 hour ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

That's already been thought of, and brought up in this thread, the Corpus vs. Grineer mode. Small team tactics based game mode with corpus and grineer AI.

Maybe, but I was pointing out the fact to the person who I replied to that having Faction v. Faction with Tenno on both side would make a great PvP+E mode.

Plus, I'd honestly suggest more than small teams. Warframe is best when you have plenty of targets to focus on and you have to stay mobile while also being effective. So having enemy forces of say 5 squads of 5 or 6 enemies per side would be good. Or maybe even the "heroic" Grineer and Corpus units of Rathuum and The Index. I'd love getting a chance to fight along side of John Prodman or Dhurmam against the enemy faction.

But yes, adding the stuff that makes PvE back into PvP would be a good way to start with improving the Conclave in general.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 2/23/2017 at 0:29 PM, DesuTronic said:

Conclave and Lunaro are under the same navigation segment in your Liset but they are lets be frank completely different things.

As for the builds, sure you can vary your builds and do whatever but you will always be up against someone who will be using the most optimal build to kick your butt with. It's fun o try to see how many grineer can you kill with a 8 forma braton mk1 but but in conclave unless you have a build that rivals the opposition, you will never be able to win.

You seem to be knowledgeable about "builds" in conclave. Tell me about these optimal builds. I would really like to know.

[Kierlak]

2 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

Yeah I figured a lot of PvE players don't like Conclave because they aren't good at it. A lot of people expect to just jump in and be good immediately but there's a learning curve to this game's PvP and people don't want to put in the time to get better. It's easier just to cry about it being a terrible mode with no potential that to admit you're just not good at it yet.

 

Or perhaps conclave will forever be terrible as long as there's no matchmaking ladder. It will never go anywhere until the super tryhards stop being put into the same games as people that are just checking it out or just want to grind a few skins.

[Arithin]

I don't think pvp needs more modes.  Its proven to be more niche than archwing or raiding, so separating the player base that's fragmented already with the dedicated servers isn't a good idea.  Would strongly disagree with the opinion of it having a small amount of polish.  The devs have went the extra mile with balance tweaks, adding modes, and refining the combat feel so it's different but still familiar.

 

Warframe account progress is tied too closely to resource gathering, weapon/frame leveling, and general collection (for use or trade).  What pvp needs is to allow players to gather affinity, and resources when they pvp so it feels less like a penalty that puts your account progress on partial hold.  And more like a valid way to spend time in the game.  At the very least it needs something that people can sell trade for plat that ALL warframe players would have a desire for.

[helix.hex]

there is a good reason we dont have good pvp. DE will make it a chore. personally i dont care for it pvp in third-person or in warframe due to how the maping systems and lighting work. in pve the lighting is great at time but in enviroment where the slightest error can be fatal?

[EmberStar]

On 2/23/2017 at 10:09 AM, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

You don't even wanna give it a chance? What it they update it and it becomes something great?

It'll still be PVP.  Personally, I don't mind if other people enjoy it.  I have tried it.  I do not.  I therefore choose to ignore it, mostly.  Although it irks me when they add PVP events with cosmetic rewards, because that is an item that I can't get, and it's often not even possible to trade for it.  But I am aware that it is still my choice to not get it, since it's apparently possible to join PVP matches and just lose over and over until I brute force enough tokens.  I'm pretty sure no one would be happy in that case though.  Well, maybe that *one* guy who loves easy wins.

To the extent I've paid attention (in this game and others,) the resentment for PVP in mostly PVE games seems to be that it's taking resources away from stuff that would benefit a way bigger portion of the playerbase.  There's always people who complain about new costumes or cosmetics, but realistically artists aren't coders, and coders aren't artists.  But adding stuff to PVP usually *does* mean adding new game mechanics and game modes.  Which means the people doing that are *not* spending time adding new game mechanics and game modes to PVE.  Adding a new emote won't actually affect the progress of bug fixes or new powers.  (Unless you *really* want an animator to try to animate a solution to netcode issues.)

Personally, I'd rather they spent time on stuff that would be of use to more people.  Warframe isn't a PVP game, never has been, never will be.  It's a PVE co-op game, and people even find ways to mess that up.  (Sprintframes, Slider Boltace spammers, and Spamulor Mirage players, for example.)  And the time they spend adding new PVP modes is time they are *not* spending adding new PVE modes.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

The only way I will ever play conclave seriously is if they allowed all my PVE mods to be used, and they didn't nerf the powers like how it currently is.

[Heckzu]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

The only way I will ever play conclave seriously is if they allowed all my PVE mods to be used, and they didn't nerf the powers like how it currently is.

There was once a time when PvP used PvE mods, aka PvP 1.0. It was such an unbalanced mess that Solar Rails, which utilized PvP 1.0, was discontinued and the PvP system was overhauled into the Conclave that we have now.

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

1 hour ago, Heckzu said:

There was once a time when PvP used PvE mods, aka PvP 1.0. It was such an unbalanced mess that Solar Rails, which utilized PvP 1.0, was discontinued and the PvP system was overhauled into the Conclave that we have now.

I know. I actively participated in Solar Rails. I loved it. Sniping people with my Lanka while fully cloaked. I think it was better back then.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

22 hours ago, Kierlak said:

 

Or perhaps conclave will forever be terrible as long as there's no matchmaking ladder. It will never go anywhere until the super tryhards stop being put into the same games as people that are just checking it out or just want to grind a few skins.

Agreed, there needs to be a matchmaking ladder and the rank system needs to be changed. Recruit conditioning is too unreliable because players can just not rank up and stay in recruit conditioning forever and farm new players.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

19 hours ago, EmberStar said:

It'll still be PVP.  Personally, I don't mind if other people enjoy it.  I have tried it.  I do not.  I therefore choose to ignore it, mostly.  Although it irks me when they add PVP events with cosmetic rewards, because that is an item that I can't get, and it's often not even possible to trade for it.  But I am aware that it is still my choice to not get it, since it's apparently possible to join PVP matches and just lose over and over until I brute force enough tokens.  I'm pretty sure no one would be happy in that case though.  Well, maybe that *one* guy who loves easy wins.

To the extent I've paid attention (in this game and others,) the resentment for PVP in mostly PVE games seems to be that it's taking resources away from stuff that would benefit a way bigger portion of the playerbase.  There's always people who complain about new costumes or cosmetics, but realistically artists aren't coders, and coders aren't artists.  But adding stuff to PVP usually *does* mean adding new game mechanics and game modes.  Which means the people doing that are *not* spending time adding new game mechanics and game modes to PVE.  Adding a new emote won't actually affect the progress of bug fixes or new powers.  (Unless you *really* want an animator to try to animate a solution to netcode issues.)

Personally, I'd rather they spent time on stuff that would be of use to more people.  Warframe isn't a PVP game, never has been, never will be.  It's a PVE co-op game, and people even find ways to mess that up.  (Sprintframes, Slider Boltace spammers, and Spamulor Mirage players, for example.)  And the time they spend adding new PVP modes is time they are *not* spending adding new PVE modes.

I understand it's a mainly PvE game. That's not the point, to be honest with you. The point is that a PvP mode has already been implemented into the game, instead of completely ignoring it and putting all the resources into PvE modes like some PvE players want, it would make sense to at least try to make the best of the PvP mode and make it into something enjoyable for more of the playerbase rather than let it rot away. It has potential, and could be something great given time and effort, despite it having obvious flaws at the moment.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Jaztok said:

I know. I actively participated in Solar Rails. I loved it. Sniping people with my Lanka while fully cloaked. I think it was better back then.

In that case you're even more outspoken than the players who enjoy PvP at all right now.

[ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD]

22 hours ago, Arithin said:

I don't think pvp needs more modes.  Its proven to be more niche than archwing or raiding, so separating the player base that's fragmented already with the dedicated servers isn't a good idea.  Would strongly disagree with the opinion of it having a small amount of polish.  The devs have went the extra mile with balance tweaks, adding modes, and refining the combat feel so it's different but still familiar.

 

Warframe account progress is tied too closely to resource gathering, weapon/frame leveling, and general collection (for use or trade).  What pvp needs is to allow players to gather affinity, and resources when they pvp so it feels less like a penalty that puts your account progress on partial hold.  And more like a valid way to spend time in the game.  At the very least it needs something that people can sell trade for plat that ALL warframe players would have a desire for.

The reason I think more modes is necessary is there's a community that enjoys PvP for what it is at the moment, they wouldn't want the PvP experience they've come to enjoy to change so I say the current modes stay how they are. Then there's the rest of the community who doesn't like how PvP is at the moment, because of the mobility, etc. hence why the addition of a Grineer vs. Corpus (with AI) mode has been suggested with less aspects of the current PvP to appeal to those players. Agreed, the devs have put in work with balance, tweaks, and changes to combat, in PvP. As for the modes, they added 2 extremely basic and simple modes. All the modes the majority of the playerbase has actually enjoyed have just been events that they remove later on. They need to add modes like the events, but permanent. The events offer the most balanced PvP experience seen in WF where everyone is on equal grounds with the same weapons and health. But I agree with your affinity and resource suggestion, that sounds like a great idea.

[EmberStar]

11 hours ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I understand it's a mainly PvE game. That's not the point, to be honest with you. The point is that a PvP mode has already been implemented into the game, instead of completely ignoring it and putting all the resources into PvE modes like some PvE players want, it would make sense to at least try to make the best of the PvP mode and make it into something enjoyable for more of the playerbase rather than let it rot away. It has potential, and could be something great given time and effort, despite it having obvious flaws at the moment.

It is entirely the point.  It takes a certain amount of dev time and resources to add new modes and gameplay mechanics.  Adding those things for only a tiny portion of the playerbase is not an efficient way to spend that time and resources (and therefore the money that those things represent.)  Especially since the *existing* PVP playerbase often doesn't seem to all like the handful of new modes that have been added, and very rarely seems to even agree on what kind of PVP they want.

Allow me to provide a counter example:  I think it would be nice if Smite had a solo PVE mode and story campaign.  Or even just a PVE mode where it was possible to play against bots that were reasonably challenging.  That is almost certainly never going to happen though.  Why?  Because it's a PVP game, and the existing audience are all either primarliy PVP players, or are at least okay with online PVP.  The current playbase of people who play private matches against the existing practice bots is tiny.  Those devs would almost certainly consider it a waste of time and resources to add a mode that nearly their entire current playerbase is content to do without, in exchange for the small chance it would bring in enough new "PVE only" players to offset the costs.  And since I do not play PVP, this means I do not play Smite.  (Or LoL or DOTA 2 or any other game that is built from the ground up as a PVP only game.)

In my opinion, the problem isn't that DE isn't adding enough PVP modes.  The problem is that they ever added PVP in the first place.  If you want to shoot other players in the face, there are other games built for that from the ground up and which are much better suited to it than Warframe will ever be.

[medomai]

1. In order for conclave to become palatable, I would recommend disabling bullet jumping in conclave. Does anyone actually enjoy spray and pray shooting at extremely mobile targets while also hurling their warframe around the tile set? I don't know, maybe I'm just terrible at aiming hahaha. 
2. I would also recommend making more conclave mods usable in PVE. There are some fairly interesting conclave mods that could serve as an intensive to play more conclave if they could be used in Warframe's primary play, PVE.      

Edited February 26, 2017 by medomai

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

On 2/23/2017 at 2:46 PM, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

If DE decides to update conclave I think more people would be down to try it on all platforms. But let me know how the YT channel works out, I've been posting WF content on mine lately too. I'd be down to sub if you started posting.

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRkS17Gbs4u1h_W2W7_Z-ZA

My channel