[Suggestion] New Sortie modifiers

[Nazrethim]

Title. Just a few sortie modifiers to spice things up.

 

Power Reduction:

A void anomaly in the area will disrupt  your and your warframe's powers.

Power Strenght, Efficiency, Duration, Range and Focus buffs (both active and passive) have their effects halved. (for example: if you have 200% strenght and 150% range, you will have only 100% str and 75% range.)

 

[FACTION] Weapon Only:

Mechanical disruptors in the area will disable any foreign weapon, [FACTION] weapons will be your only option.

Infested version: Strange spores in the area will disable any weapon. Infested weapons will be your only option.

Essentially, if it's a Corpus Sortie, you will be forced to pick Corpus weapons only, same for Grineer or Infested. If ever we get Void sorties, Prime and/or Tenno weapons will be the only option. Cephalon weapons would obviously not work on this missions (Simulor, Gammacor and Heliocolor series)

 

Power Limiter:

Special disruptors in the area will disable any module not attuned to it. [Mod Quality] Modules will be your only uption.

This one disables any mod of the wrong quality, if the requirement says Common, rare and uncommon mods will be disabled. Primed Mods will only be usable if it's regular counterpart can.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Nazrethim

[lukinu_u]

I dont like the first one but the 2 others seems good, espectially the 2nd.

[Hemmo67]

apart from the first idea which is too close with terms of energy reduction. the rest should be added just not the top one :|

[Retequizzle]

They have a hard enough time getting their current modifiers to work as intended.  Why encourage them to put more in when they can't manage what they have currently?

For example - Energy Reduction sorties no longer take into account anyone using Energy Siphon or Zenurik's Energy Overflow.  Sure, there's still a hard cap but that's not really going to matter if I'm constantly at the cap from energy regen.  Most frames' utility/survival-oriented abilities are not a high enough cost to be affected by a lower ceiling. Sortie Hijacks' nullifying fields rarely worked as intended (Corpus maps were GG with solo Zephyr, Grineer maps could spam Frost or really any kind of CC from within the hijack target's AoE.)

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the mindset behind this because I've been wanting more difficult sortie options but there's a lot to be done with what we have currently that puts me off from pushing DE to add more things they won't pay attention to in 2-3 months' time.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Retequizzle

[shadow0727]

18 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Title. Just a few sortie modifiers to spice things up.

 

Power Reduction:

A void anomaly in the area will disrupt  your and your warframe's powers.

Power Strenght, Efficiency, Duration, Range and Focus buffs (both active and passive) have their effects halved. (for example: if you have 200% strenght and 150% range, you will have only 100% str and 75% range.)

 

[FACTION] Weapon Only:

Mechanical disruptors in the area will disable any foreign weapon, [FACTION] weapons will be your only option.

Infested version: Strange spores in the area will disable any weapon. Infested weapons will be your only option.

Essentially, if it's a Corpus Sortie, you will be forced to pick Corpus weapons only, same for Grineer or Infested. If ever we get Void sorties, Prime and/or Tenno weapons will be the only option. Cephalon weapons would obviously not work on this missions (Simulor, Gammacor and Heliocolor series)

 

Power Limiter:

Special disruptors in the area will disable any module not attuned to it. [Mod Quality] Modules will be your only uption.

This one disables any mod of the wrong quality, if the requirement says Common, rare and uncommon mods will be disabled. Primed Mods will only be usable if it's regular counterpart can.

 

 

I think all 3 of them are good ideas

[xXDeadsinxX]

I like the last 2, those sound really interesting! The first one doesn't sound that appealing though.

[Nazrethim]

24 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

apart from the first idea which is too close with terms of energy reduction. the rest should be added just not the top one :|

Well, it is close to energy reduction, but instead of reducing energy capacity, this one reduce powers in general while leaving energy capacity untouched.

 

22 minutes ago, Retequizzle said:

They have a hard enough time getting their current modifiers to work as intended.  Why encourage them to put more in when they can't manage what they have currently?

Because then we have less chance of seeing the current broken ones. And because "Sniper/Bow only vs Nullifier army" gets old pretty much instantly.

[bluepheonix13]

43 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Power Reduction:

A void anomaly in the area will disrupt  your and your warframe's powers.

Power Strenght, Efficiency, Duration, Range and Focus buffs (both active and passive) have their effects halved. (for example: if you have 200% strenght and 150% range, you will have only 100% str and 75% range.)

But guys, this will make a 50% Speed Nova possible! xD

 

On topic, I like all three of these ideas, although the second with Infested will really f*** me and my friends up, who don't play with infested weapons.

 

Edit: What if we give it a little more variability (like physical and elemental enhancements also always differ by element) by making one of the 5 stats normal or doubled and the other 4 halved?

Edited February 28, 2017 by bluepheonix13
prevent double post

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

But guys, this will make a 50% Speed Nova possible! xD

Hahaha troe that. I guess creative people will have fun with it. Also, I can imagine Frosts taking this chance to get globes the size of their hands just to take screencaps holding them.

2 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

On topic, I like all three of these ideas, although the second with Infested will really f*** me and my friends up, who don't play with infested weapons.

Well, the idea behind "Sniper/Bow/Rifle/Pistol/Shotgun/Melee-only" modifiers was to encourage people to get a large variety of weapons, in practice it's very annoying to get Sniper or bow only vs army of nullifiers. This one is an alternative that doesn't limit a player to a single-weapon-loadout. But yeah, I don't have any Infested Primary or Secondary so if DE ads this one I will have to get a few hehe

[Retequizzle]

15 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, it is close to energy reduction, but instead of reducing energy capacity, this one reduce powers in general while leaving energy capacity untouched.

 

Because then we have less chance of seeing the current broken ones. And because "Sniper/Bow only vs Nullifier army" gets old pretty much instantly.

So the argument for it is "we should add more so we see the bad ones less"?  DE doesn't have a good enough track record with small patches going live without issue to give any merit to that idea..  Oversaturation of content doesn't negate the fact that they rarely pay any mind to fixing bad content once it's out.  And that leads to a myriad of other QoL issues that they either refuse to address or don't know how to address, and neither option sets up a lot of confidence for players.

[KamishirasawaKeine]

Reduction on all power stats was actually implemented during the introduction of Orokin sabotage, was kind of fun actually, but only when enemies aren't on sortie 3 strength. Since scaling or cc from warframe is essential if not mandatory in such situation, a restriction without workaround isn't a good idea. Same rule also applies to mod qualities, I don't think there's anyway to maintain good combat effectiveness against high level grineer with common mods only.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, KamishirasawaKeine said:

Reduction on all power stats was actually implemented during the introduction of Orokin sabotage, was kind of fun actually, but only when enemies aren't on sortie 3 strength. Since scaling or cc from warframe is essential if not mandatory in such situation, a restriction without workaround isn't a good idea. Same rule also applies to mod qualities, I don't think there's anyway to maintain good combat effectiveness against high level grineer with common mods only.

Yeah, Gate Crash endurance had the power reduction iirc. Depending on sortie mission it's doable.

I cleared the whole Starchart with common mods as a self imposed challenge, so I know the first and probably the second sortie can be cleared with common mods, now Uncommon mods are very different story. We also have the Operators, who are quite capable of killing if you can avoid being shot.

[KamishirasawaKeine]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Yeah, Gate Crash endurance had the power reduction iirc. Depending on sortie mission it's doable.

I cleared the whole Starchart with common mods as a self imposed challenge, so I know the first and probably the second sortie can be cleared with common mods, now Uncommon mods are very different story. We also have the Operators, who are quite capable of killing if you can avoid being shot.

 

 

While you could probably run through starchart without mod at all at this point, sortie enemies are totally different story. Even with full mod, wrong loadout would still make the mission almost impossible. While sorties are meant to be endgame content, it doesn't require any extraordinary resort to complete so far, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. By extraordinary, I mean spending several finishers on a single grineer to take him down, which is what will happen if you try mod rarity restriction on sortie 3. 

As for operator, void beam might looks promising on low level mobs, however it's actual performance is much worse than a half-modded Karak. They might be 'quite capable of killing' in starchart, but just don't expect them to do any reasonable damage in sorties.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, KamishirasawaKeine said:

While you could probably run through starchart without mod at all at this point

Only with a few frames.

Just now, KamishirasawaKeine said:

, sortie enemies are totally different story. Even with full mod, wrong loadout would still make the mission almost impossible. While sorties are meant to be endgame content, it doesn't require any extraordinary resort to complete so far, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

I'm sure the "endgame players" who are confident they can beat any challenge the throws at them could deal with the right tools, albeit limted in power. After all, endgame isn't supposed to be easy.

Just now, KamishirasawaKeine said:

By extraordinary, I mean spending several finishers on a single grineer to take him down, which is what will happen if you try mod rarity restriction on sortie 3. 

Not really. Rarity would just determine what kind of equipment you must use, Common-only leaves EHP mods and good melee mods, Uncommon leaves little ehp, but makes up for it by having guns deal good damage and melee with channeling or finisher a solid alternative. Rare would mostly mean you get a lot of power to play around with.

What could be done is determine which mod quality goes by the sortie order you get: Sortie 1 gets Common-only, Sortie 2 gets Uncommon and Sortie 3 gets Rare.

Just now, KamishirasawaKeine said:

As for operator, void beam might looks promising on low level mobs, however it's actual performance is much worse than a half-modded Karak. They might be 'quite capable of killing' in starchart, but just don't expect them to do any reasonable damage in sorties.

But would be a good option if you can hide the squishy warframe somewhere unreachable and then go with the operator.

[KamishirasawaKeine]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

Only with a few frames.

I'm sure the "endgame players" who are confident they can beat any challenge the throws at them could deal with the right tools, albeit limted in power. After all, endgame isn't supposed to be easy.

Not really. Rarity would just determine what kind of equipment you must use, Common-only leaves EHP mods and good melee mods, Uncommon leaves little ehp, but makes up for it by having guns deal good damage and melee with channeling or finisher a solid alternative. Rare would mostly mean you get a lot of power to play around with.

What could be done is determine which mod quality goes by the sortie order you get: Sortie 1 gets Common-only, Sortie 2 gets Uncommon and Sortie 3 gets Rare.

But would be a good option if you can hide the squishy warframe somewhere unreachable and then go with the operator.

 

I can see that you have thought well on the effect of mod restriction on the end of players, however I think you're missing how would enemies interacted to such change.

Taking high level grineer for an example, getting through their armor has always been first priority of one's build. Aside from Corrosive Projection which does not stake at the moment, and finisher damage that can only be dished out reliably by a few frames, all methods to strip grineer armor require rare mod. In that case, mod restriction might make mob clearing missions unnecessarily time-demanding.

It is a pretty interesting idea, however mod rarity has been irrelevant to anything but looting and fusion for very long. Besides, since enemies scaling is so broken at the moment, even just removing vitality away from a build could lead to disastrous result in certain condition, the corpus survive on Sunday was one of such.

[Tsukinoki]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Power Limiter:

Special disruptors in the area will disable any module not attuned to it. [Mod Quality] Modules will be your only uption.

This one disables any mod of the wrong quality, if the requirement says Common, rare and uncommon mods will be disabled. Primed Mods will only be usable if it's regular counterpart can.

Problem with this:
Do you know how unplayable it would be if it limited you to "uncommon" warframe mods?  Do you even have any idea how many "uncommon" warframe mods in the entire game there are(outside of auras)? 
9.  Maglev, Heavy Impact, Antitoxin, Equilibrium, Diamond Skin, Fast Deflection, Provoked, Stretch, and Rush.
Yeah...good luck surviving that without some major cheese.
And if you don't have "Power Limiter (uncommon)" then you can say goodbye to your auras and the points they provide, which when coupled with the polarities and such just makes the problem worse.

Applying it to weapons as well is just a crap shoot due to how lopsided the rarity of mods are in general.
Good luck being able to do any damage in a sortie 3 mission if you have "Power Limiter (common)" or "Power Limiter (rare)" due to all of the base damage mods and 90% elemental mods being uncommon, and if its grineer you won't have access to Corrosive Projection either...
If you have "Power Limiter (common)" you have absolutely nothing that increases damage in any way, shape or form.  No elemental mods, no base damage mods...good luck doing level 80-100 enemies like that...

This does nothing to increase challenge or anything else.  It just adds frustration and means that if you don't have a way to cheese the specific mission then it becomes completely uncompletable.
Try doing a level 80-100 survival for 10 minutes using only common mods on every weapon and on your frame as well.

If there were actually variants of similar mods at the different rarity levels this might be workable.  As it stands though this could easily limit some missions to be flat out impossible to  complete due to the combination of mission type and mod rarity requirement.

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Power Reduction:

A void anomaly in the area will disrupt  your and your warframe's powers.

Power Strenght, Efficiency, Duration, Range and Focus buffs (both active and passive) have their effects halved. (for example: if you have 200% strenght and 150% range, you will have only 100% str and 75% range.)

This idea is a bit more solid, my only suggestion here is that it only affects one of those stats and focus, not all of them at once.  By affecting one it allows people to actually work around the limitation without having to be forced to cheese it as hard as possible.
After all, if everything is going to be cut down I'm basically being forced to choose the only options that aren't affected at all by any of them...and will probably go with a fatal teleport Ash with Covert Lethality and 1-shot anything anyways and not even notice the penalty in question.  That or go with a Rhino + IS and not notice anything.

Meanwhile if it only limits one of the power stats I can actually plan around it and come up with something fun and creative without resorting to cheesing the BS mission, or I can at least have some creativity and mod around the problem (which is what sorties are supposed to do anyways...)

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

[FACTION] Weapon Only:

Mechanical disruptors in the area will disable any foreign weapon, [FACTION] weapons will be your only option.

Infested version: Strange spores in the area will disable any weapon. Infested weapons will be your only option.

Essentially, if it's a Corpus Sortie, you will be forced to pick Corpus weapons only, same for Grineer or Infested. If ever we get Void sorties, Prime and/or Tenno weapons will be the only option. Cephalon weapons would obviously not work on this missions (Simulor, Gammacor and Heliocolor series)

I don't really see anything that wrong with this one, except that its a modifier which would do practically nothing to limit players.
Especially with the syndicate weapons.

It would essentially be a non-challenge challenge and if anything is too similar to the current weapon limiters we have.
And at least the current weapon limiters we already have actually makes people think a bit about their loadouts and requires them to at least have a variety of weapon types.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Tsukinoki

[TheChaotic1]

That face when common mod only raptor assassination sortie 3

[Nazrethim]

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Problem with this:
Do you know how unplayable it would be if it limited you to "uncommon" warframe mods?  Do you even have any idea how many "uncommon" warframe mods in the entire game there are(outside of auras)? 
9.  Maglev, Heavy Impact, Antitoxin, Equilibrium, Diamond Skin, Fast Deflection, Provoked, Stretch, and Rush.
Yeah...good luck surviving that without some major cheese.

I know how weak one is with uncommon mods only, I cleared the whole starchart with it, Kela wasn't precisely a walk in the park. On the other hand, objective based missions are totally doable, as you aren't required to confront the enemy.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And if you don't have "Power Limiter (uncommon)" then you can say goodbye to your auras and the points they provide, which when coupled with the polarities and such just makes the problem worse.

I still see no problem with that.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Applying it to weapons as well is just a crap shoot due to how lopsided the rarity of mods are in general.
Good luck being able to do any damage in a sortie 3 mission if you have "Power Limiter (common)" or "Power Limiter (rare)" due to all of the base damage mods and 90% elemental mods being uncommon, and if its grineer you won't have access to Corrosive Projection either...
If you have "Power Limiter (common)" you have absolutely nothing that increases damage in any way, shape or form.  No elemental mods, no base damage mods...good luck doing level 80-100 enemies like that...

90% are uncommon, but you also have nightmare mods and dual stats on Rare, plus multishot and rare stances.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

This does nothing to increase challenge or anything else.  It just adds frustration and means that if you don't have a way to cheese the specific mission then it becomes completely uncompletable.

For a creative player any mission is completable.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

Try doing a level 80-100 survival for 10 minutes using only common mods on every weapon and on your frame as well.

I will do the next time a Grineer Sortie 100 survival shows up (Corpus are BS past lvl 50 anyway so I won't bother) with only common mods.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

If there were actually variants of similar mods at the different rarity levels this might be workable.  As it stands though this could easily limit some missions to be flat out impossible to  complete due to the combination of mission type and mod rarity requirement.

Well, DE could add this modifier to the pool along with some mods for each category.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

This idea is a bit more solid, my only suggestion here is that it only affects one of those stats and focus, not all of them at once.  By affecting one it allows people to actually work around the limitation without having to be forced to cheese it as hard as possible.
After all, if everything is going to be cut down I'm basically being forced to choose the only options that aren't affected at all by any of them...and will probably go with a fatal teleport Ash with Covert Lethality and 1-shot anything anyways and not even notice the penalty in question.  That or go with a Rhino + IS and not notice anything.

Or go with pure EHP and utility stats and use guns, forgeting about power spam entirely. Could be worked around by making lvl 50-60 only limit 1 power stat, 65-70 2 and 80-100 all 4.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

 have some creativity and mod around the problem (which is what sorties are supposed to do anyways...)

That's the idea of the Mod-Quality modifier, except of "Mod around the problem" is more "Think and play around the problem".

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I don't really see anything that wrong with this one, except that its a modifier which would do practically nothing to limit players.
Especially with the syndicate weapons.

Well, that depends. Grineer sortie would only allow Vaykor weapons. Corpus would just allow Secura weapons. Infested wouldn't allow any syndicate weapon. OR, count Syndicate weapons as their own faction, therefore straight unusable whatsoever on any FACTION-WEAPON sortie.

6 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

It would essentially be a non-challenge challenge and if anything is too similar to the current weapon limiters we have.
And at least the current weapon limiters we already have actually makes people think a bit about their loadouts and requires them to at least have a variety of weapon types.

Until you get Sniper or Bow only vs Army of nullifiers... Good thing DE got rid of Boss Assassination Melee-only, which Vay Hek (arguably the most BS boss in the game and a solid candidate for the most BS boss in the hystory of videogames) got TWICE in a single week. The current weapon limters doesn't require a variety of weapons, just have one meta weapon of each type. This one at least would allow some freedom to choose.