[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[ChameleonBro]

To avoid huge paragraphs I'll do this quickly.

Limbo rework in a nutshell

Limbo rework has been out for a day or so and I must say I am quite satisfied, though his 3 seems to be bugged as it does literally no damage and his Banish has been almost unusable. Having to walk up to a crowd of enemies to banish someone is the same situation as with the old Cataclysm, it's suicide. Banish pretty much lost it's point, I really hope they bring back the old Banish, but keep the AoE.

Other than that the rest of his abilities I feel like are really good now, Stasis is great and fun to use and going into the rift is super smooth. I just hope DE fixes his Rift Surge and changes Banish to be able to send enemies into the rift regardless of whether you are on the same plane or not.

EDIT: I also forgot to say that enemies in Stasis sometimes move a bit, they are frozen but make small movements, sometimes. I also noticed that if you unfreeze the time and you are not in the Rift, the projectiles you placed won't do anything to the enemies. Not sure if this one is a bug or not but the first one definitely is.

Edited March 26, 2017 by ChameleonBro

[Eldest89]

On 25/3/2017 at 5:24 AM, greaterthanthree said:

I feel like if they changed banish to be an AOE version of the old banish and reverted rift surge back to what it used to be then this problem would be fixed

but it's super annoyng and not very selective. in a mission I was continuously dragging my team in the rift just because I used the power on a enemy near them. they were forced to dash out every second but i had no choice since banish is key to bring enemies into the rift 

[Eldest89]

On 25/3/2017 at 5:28 AM, BalaDeSilver said:

Press for AoE, hold for single target. Is it that hard, DE?

ahahahahahah you are right bro :)

[Buzkyl]

If you want to banish enemies from within the rift, you have to pair cataclsym and rift surge

1. Banish enemies from the material plane to the rift
2. Use Rift surge
3. Cast banish on them while in the rift, they will come back in and drag more nemies in with the
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3

 

So yes, it's still very possible to pull enemies into the rift with banish while still there

[Eldest89]

On 25/3/2017 at 6:23 AM, Vaygrim said:

My single biggest frustration with "New Limbo" centers on not being able to Banish targets into the Rift... FROM INSIDE the Rift. It just doesn't make sense to me, and it really kills flow and functionality of his abilities a ton. That plus the fact that AOE Banish doesn't discriminate (if I target a friendly, maybe JUST banish AOE friendlies?). This makes Banish even riskier and frustrating to use around party mates that don't want in the Rift.

"That plus the fact that AOE Banish doesn't discriminate (if I target a friendly, maybe JUST banish AOE friendlies?). This makes Banish even riskier and frustrating to use around party mates that don't want in the Rift."

yeah and if it a foe just bring foes into the rift ignoring friends! That will be a very good improvement

[BecauseJavier]

1 minute ago, Buzkyl said:

If you want to banish enemies from within the rift, you have to pair cataclsym and rift surge

1. Banish enemies from the material plane to the rift
2. Use Rift surge
3. Cast banish on them while in the rift, they will come back in and drag more nemies in with the
4. Repeat steps 2 and 3

 

So yes, it's still very possible to pull enemies into the rift with banish while still there

The problem (for me at least) is that Banish does not work while inside the rift for me. PERIOD. I can be close, I can be far away, I can be doing a jig, but banish will not cast while my limbo is in the rift, on both rifted or un-rifted enemies.

[Colyeses]

That sounds like a gamebreaking bug, rather than it being by design.

EDIT: I just tested it, and Banish works perfectly fine while I'm in the rift, as long as I target enemies that are in the rift. It looks like a severe bug on your end.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Colyeses

[Leleat]

After playing with Limbo for some more time I gotta say that his 2 can be somewhat "trolly" for you... and your teammates.  The teammates who don't know about the time stop will just keep shooting wondering what is going and eventually hit the projectile cap (or they just want to troll you, because they got trolled from Limbos in the past... or maybe they were trolls from the start, who knows)

So I think this needs to be changed as well (besides the obvious 1. ability). I think the idea of stopping projectiles is unnecessary, because the projectiles you set up will hit the enemy after the deactivation anyway, why wait until then, just let the bullets and damage happen immediately (as it already happens with melee damage). The downside to the abiltiy should be something different. For example instead of a one cast/cost ability (with a long duration) make it a drain ability...

Edited March 26, 2017 by Leleat

[Eldest89]

On 25/3/2017 at 6:58 AM, nameomnz said:

The only thing I want to be change here is his banish.

-You cannot banish your enemy if you are inside the rift(What!?)

-The banish is now AOE reguardless. 

basically I want to be able to banish enemy into the rift while in the rift instread of I have to be the same plane to banish them. And also can we have some toggle mechanic that switch between AOE and single banish??

Rift surge is no use if we cant banish the damm enemy into rift plane and we all have to pop in and out to do that It's even more clunky than an old mechanic. Now people find using Catalysm is more easier than banish. Rift surge is no use anymore.

Suggestion

1.We could try rework his augment to apply some changes

2.If not the augment. then make a Limbo 2.5 please

 

 

 

 

 

On 25/3/2017 at 8:44 AM, Jangkrik said:

Ok, as a Limbo main, I think I'll write my personal opinion regarding his rework.

The good:

1. The rift dash is really cool and useful. It greatly reduces the annoyance and vulnerability of using Rift Walk.

2. Stasis. This thing is really good. Limbo can now have more control on the enemies in the rift as opposed to his ultra fragile nature before the patch.

The neutral:

1. The loss of roll. I personally use rolls a lot when using Limbo and the replacement of rolls with void dash disrupted my playstyle a bit. Still, the rift dash makes up for the loss.

The bad:

1. The Banish. One of the main uses for Limbo is to control the enemies. You control which enemy does which without much complications in doing so. The current Banish is rather bad for the control ability of Limbo as he will be forced to banish a group of enemies instead of a single enemy. Now the group banish isn't that bad, but seeing as Limbo needs to banish specific enemies often, I think the Limbo should be able to either banish group of enemies or banish a specific enemy. My specific solution for this is, as several others have said, to implement "hold" ability like Ivara's arrow. The hold should be for banishing a group of enemies while the single press for a single enemy or vice-versa.

Also, I think the Limbo should be able to control the enemies' dimension however he wants like the old Banish (press 1 to banish, press 1 again to unbanish) regardless of his dimension instead of "kicking them out" of his dimension as it is now very annoying to switch dimension just to unbanish/banish enemies.

2, Rift Torrent damage multiplier. I seriously can't comprehend the removal of the damage multiplier from Rift Torrent. It is one of the main reason for Limbo players to send the enemies to the rift: for quick killing. Why remove it?

 

On 25/3/2017 at 9:06 AM, Temragon said:

A lot of good changes. Thank you very much for most of them!

Issues:

1. Losing roll is pretty big for survivability when we're forced to be outside the rift or when we have enemies with us. Unfortunately I haven't thought of a better solution yet

2. Banish not working from the other side of the rift. This is a big problem, controlling who is in the rift at any time is very important for Limbo at higher enemy levels, and not being able to remove enemies while you're outside or add them while you're inside feels like an unreasonable change.

3. No ability to banish single units. This is something many people brought up before the changes went live. A hold-to-AoE or Hold-to-single-target would be very appreciated.

4. If you have manually entered the rift, cataclysm will still remove you.

 

On 25/3/2017 at 9:28 AM, Calvyr said:

So here's an interesting thought. Limbo is the "Master of the Rift", but his powers (Banish, specifically) don't work across planes, while other Warframes, who are mere guests in the Rift, can freely use their abilities across both planes while in the Rift. Does this really make sense?

 

22 hours ago, Evanescent said:

Please:

1)allow banishing from rift-plane 

2)a way like ivara and vauban to switch between multi and single banish

3)Rift surge to be an aoe ability that affects enemies in range instead of having to target

 

18 hours ago, Bobtm said:

To start on a positive note;  I like the apparent direction that they've gone in overall.  However, there are a few major issues that hamper anyone trying to play Limbo currently.

Parroting what is the mostly general consensus at the moment, but the changes to Limbo's Banish ability just don't work out at all in any feasible level of play.  As others are noting, at this moment, Limbo's reworked 1 (Banish) has no usability at all.  At the moment one should always use his 4 in pretty much all cases, sometimes in tandem with his 3 if they wish to not keep the Cataclysm up but have multiple foes in the Rift.

As a starting point, I'd propose one of two possible solutions to Banish;

1. Just fully revert its changes.  I know this is a very simple and non-elegant way to go about it, but as the old adage would say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and old Banish worked fine on a conceptual and mechanical level.  We already have both Limbo's new 3, and his 4 as ways to pull multiple targets into the Rift.  There's no real reason to have Banish as an AoE in the first place now, due to the handful of changes this frame has now gotten.  This would, in all honesty, be the best route for Banish despite being the least intriguing.
2. Make Banish work like it did as shown on the Devstream a ways ago.  Wherein the ability always worked whether you were inside of, or out of the Rift.  With the caveat here being that it always pulled its targets into the same plane Limbo was on at the time of casting.  It's rather unnecessary to have it work as an AoE given the points noted before, but if for some reason it's wished to remain as an AoE, this would be the correct solution.

As for his new passive trait for entering and exiting the Rift.  It's mostly great, however it has a few issues that cause some unnecessary hindrances.  In Warframe as a whole, there is a limitation on how the dodge roll command works;  One cannot do more than one dodge roll in mid-air during one instance of being airborne.  This particular game mechanic (which is a normally very fair limitation) leads to causing this unnecessarily clunky feeling on Limbo.  I would personally prefer to see this limitation be removed for Limbo, as it would make his play feel more fluid when one doesn't have to micromanage when they have last dodged.

Limbo's new 3 is a 100% downgrade from its prior state, however it's not a lost cause in this situation.  Were his Banish reverted to its old state (which it, in all honesty, should be) his 3 would open up options for extra control of what is inside or outside of the Rift on a more metered scale.  Where his Cataclysm still holds its weight in the instant option for wide-area Rifting of things.

Reverting Limbo's Banish back to its old version would immediately solve a huge number of issues on its own.  While simultaneously making his 3's purposes much more prevalent and meaningful.  Throw in the ability to dodge roll more than once per time in the air, and the current Limbo's main issues of clunkiness get wiped away fairly well.

As someone who plays Limbo a lot, I'm a bit confused about why Banish was ever changed, as Cataclysm always was the option to put multiple targets into the Rift.  With the changes to his 3 we now have 2 ways to pull multiple foes into the Rift.  As it stands as of this post, there's no reason to leave Banish in its current state.  Its supposed need to be an AoE has been fully obsoleted by the other changes that this frame now has.  Dodging into/out of the Rift is very fluid and enjoyable overall, and Stasis feels utterly outstanding.  I hope that his Banish is reverted so that I can fully enjoy using all of Limbo's abilities once more as I did prior to this rework.

 

18 hours ago, Bobtm said:

While I do see where you are going with the post overall, this particular line is glaringly false.  The animation speed on an Ancient's tether shot comes out in under half the time that it takes for Limbo's stasis to come out.  It's fully impossible to reactively evade an Ancient's hook by casting Stasis.  In such cases it is always going to be using a dodge to avoid said shot.

Also as you noted in the final part of your post;  We have lots of ways to pull a lot of targets into the Rift really well.  By proxy Banish has no reason to be an AoE at all.

 

18 hours ago, Frenjo said:

I think they realised that rifting with no energy/no duration/cannot be pulled out by a nullifier is OP, so are trying to balance it by gimping the abilities... I mean... Yeah. I just think at this point if banish was back to normal we would have glaring problem no.1 fixed.

 

18 hours ago, ScorpDK said:

Really liking the changes done to Limbo. He went from a slow-as-molasses 1-v-1 frame that (as I gathered from chat ingame) relegated to mostly running through missions without actually interacting with enemies, to this agile void sorcerer that has massive CC potential and can kill or simple keep enemies busy for extended periods of time.

 

If there are things I have to note, it's the following:

• It's more often than not very hard to tell who is banished and who is not, especially when dealing with Corrupted enemies in Relic Runs, because the overlay texture of the banish is white, while the corrupted enemies are a glowing gold-white. You might want to give them a different, more noticeable effect. Because right now, I tend to wildly flail my weapon at enemies I CANNOT affect, not knowing until I try. Maybe make them translucent or something,...? Having the glow color of the Limbo that banished them applied over them would potentially help..
• The Rift Walk distance is a bit hard to manage, especially since you cannot act out of it, you have to wait until the animation fully finishes before you can attack or use an ability, which on higher difficulty easily becomes a problem, due to how easy you can get murdered by high-level enemies. Also, maybe another animation if you do it backwards/sideways while aiming a weapon, with a shorter distance traveled?

Otherwise...I'm pretty happy with the new Limbo.

It could have some adjustments here and there, but he's pretty damn good now.

 

18 hours ago, Bobtm said:

Ah that's the kicker there for sure.  With his ability to go into/out of the Rift being far faster than before, I immediately threw Natural Talent off of my builds to open up more options.  That for sure would give you just barely enough time to stop the hook.  I may need to throw the mod back onto one build just for enjoyment's sakes lol.

That's the same vibe I get from it too.  It feels like Banish got the first focus, but then with the other changes that came into play later, the incidentally made it so that we never would need an AoE on Banish at all any longer.  The changes are definitely mostly good, though there are the peculiar bits.

 

17 hours ago, Denpoman said:

I want to say that I really like this rework.

The new Rift-dash that Limbo got makes him much sleeker and nimble to play. Thumbs up.

But I still think there are some things that can be improved on:

- Having Banish be toggle-able between AoE and single target Banish would be a great change that would allow precision power casting

- Allowing us to banish people no matter the plane we are in. This is the only thing that is clunky about his kit and if you at least fix this then he'll be in a great place

- Stasis could give a damage boost per shot/projectile fired, otherwise it's just a CC tool

 

Overall a great rework, just fix these wrinkles and Limbo'll be a great frame.

 

16 hours ago, Antiks said:

Getting banished constantly by team limbos is still aggravating. Especially an issue right now with everyone trying the changes.

 

16 hours ago, BalaDeSilver said:

Why not making the Banish ability switch between Single Target, Multi Target (higher cost) and Self Target (with current Rift Walk animation)? This would give us back the ability to roll and fix issues related to "I only wanted to banish the Operative, and not the Bombard right behind him". And make Banish work from different planes.

 

16 hours ago, Leleat said:

1. Ability: as people have stated before me, this ability should not require you to be on the same plane as the targets. It has become useless because you are at risk of being oneshotted on higher levels. A suggestion: make it like Ash's 4's targeting/brushing/swiping system. This way we still have real control over who we banish and at the same time we can banish more than just one...

 

2. Ability: pretty awesome and pretty op if you only use melee

 

3. Ability: kinda neglectable since the damage seems meh at first glance and unbanishing the surged targets to "spread the banishing" only really works with limbo's 4 since the 1 is now useless

 

4. Ability: feels the same as before, you die on high levels due the long casting animation (the stumbling of the enemy doesn't really feel noticeable and the damage seems mediocre as well). But now it's much more important since it is the only way to banish people. So you usually go: use your 2 so you don't get killed when you banish>use 4 (maybe use 3 as well) and melee everything.

One thing to note is that if you leave or deactivate your 4 and you yourself are in the bubble you also get put back into the material plane (even if you were in the rift plane due to a prior dash and not due to the bubble). I don't know if it's a bug or if it's intentional but it is annoying and got me killed quite a few times...

 

 

14 hours ago, Frenjo said:

Is all I can say, added to the fact when you banish a friendly, you banish those 3 bombards standing next to him as well.

 

13 hours ago, scndSON said:

First of all: I haven't touched Limbo in a fairly long time, but I really enjoyed the concept. When I saw that he was getting a rework I got really excited to play and explore Limbo (again). The new "stopping time in the rift" ability is a great addition. I just have a few ideas for tweaks that could/should be made.

The passive: Implementing the 2nd ability into the movement system seems like a great idea to me. It already works way better than the "old" Limbo. There is just one thing that I don't like: You are forced to dash to be able to go into the rift. It just doesn't seem necessary to me... Just let Limbo do another animation when standing still (maybe just punching the air or slamming the ground).

1st ability: Just remove the AoE part... It just gets annoying after a few minutes and takes away the skill of knowing when to banish strong enemies (maybe make the ground slam I mentioned earlier a 5-10m AoE (NOT affected by power range) that costs energy). And let players banish enemies form inside the rift. This is even more annoying than the AoE thing as you don't even have to spend any energy now to get in/out of the rift and basically just forces the player to press a few more buttons.

2nd ability: Not much to complain about here... maybe remove the projectile cap (might be because of performance though so I dont really mind)...

3rd ability: Pretty good I guess...

4th ability: Still a cool ability, but I would change it into a "stable" (not shriking) bubble, because it makes the ability more predictable => you can play around it better. Maybe make it a little cheaper...

Overall some nice changes that made Limbo a more rounded and more enjoyable Warframe to play for me. These few additions/changes would make him that little bit better :)

 

12 hours ago, Reifnir said:

I'm probably going to voice an unpopular opinion here, but to me, Limbo went from an ultra-specialized frame that had some use (hostage rescue, keeping squishy caster frames alive in high-level missions) to a total gimmick frame with hardly any use at all. 

1) Being unable to roll is bad. Not only it takes a decent chunk out of his parkouring away, it's clunky to use and way too risky in high-level environments. 

2) Banish always being AoE is not really a good thing. Limbo needs a precision ability, not a lesser version of Cataclysm.

Possible solution: Rift walk on Banish button hold, regular, single target Banish on single tap?

3) Not being able to banish across planes is an outright disaster. Do I even need to elaborate how bad it is to jump out of a rift in an attempt to save someone just to get torn to shreds being this squishy? Please revert!

 

4) Stasis, while awesome on paper turned out to be little more than a gimmick. Given the unstable nature of Cataclysm, enemies near the edge are prone to freeing themselves at the worst possible moment when the bubble shrinks, making it unreliable as a form of CC. Additionally, object limit isn't exactly fun. If having 10,000 Hikou Prime Stars unfreeze at the same time is going to kill game performance, how about making the following changes:

a) Cataclysm size remains fixed for its entire duration

b) Player projectiles shot inside Cataclysm bubble or shot at it from outside don't linger as projectiles, but simply add to the damage of the collapse event when the bubble expires or is cancelled, somewhat akin to Assimilate?

 

 

9 hours ago, Crashen said:

1. Banish does not banish EVERYTHING in it's radius. It banishes a group of whatever it has targeted. So if you target an enemy, it'll banish the enemies around them, but not friendlies, and vice versa. I haven't brought Limbo into any group missions yet, but have been doing a lot of invasions. 

2. Time Stop can be turned on even when nothing is in the rift. Turn on time stop while in real-space, banish a group of enemies (freezing them), then shift into the Rift to dispatch them at your leisure.

3. Surge has a neat little quirk: enemies in the rift who are Surged, will return to the Rift if they are expelled, being banished and taking some extra damage. So enter the Rift, turn on time stop, drop a cataclysm on a group of enemies, and then Surge them. Deactivate cataclysm (if you want) to nuke them, and they will remain in the Rift as if they were banished, and you never had to be exposed to harm.

Yes, it requires more steps and energy, and more strategy, but you can still remain mostly safe from harm by using Cataclysm and Surge to pull enemies into the rift and keep them there. The only tricky part is that Cataclysm pulls you out of the rift if you are in it. So don't stand in it while you are performing this combo. Simple.

 

6 hours ago, Ayaz2010 said:

I really think Limbo should be able to banish enemies no matter which existance plane he stans in. Plus, I think his first skill should be like Ivara's Quiver or Vauban's mines. Two options: banish enemies or banish allies. Because let's be honest, even if you go full Narrow Minded, it's still 11 meters of Aoe Banish. I really appriecate idea of AoE Banish, but that should be divided for two options. Nobody likes to be put in the Rift by accident. And Max Range builds are going to be a thing in pubs, so, yeah.

 

3 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

Things I don't like:

--Roll to change rift state. The way I see it, the hierarchy of move speeds is: roll-assisted bullet jump (fastest, most useful in very long expanses, causes vertical height change) > plain bullet jump (slower, but has the same vertical height change) > roll (has no vertical height change, this can be very important in some situations, can also cross gaps) > sprint (very slow, can't cross gaps) > crawling when about to die (yeah...).

Because enemies deal so much damage, your main strategy of not dying is to not be hit. Moving faster and dodging around increases your chances of not being hit, and it's also just plain nice to move fast, so I'm almost always using roll-assisted bullet jumping, with plain rolling for when I need to cover a short distance and ordinary sprinting when I need to sneak around a corner. These movement methods work for every single warframe in the game... or they did, until now. Because they're universal abilities, and because it's basically necessary to go fast in high-level areas to avoid dying, I don't even think about it any more. Trying to move normally on new Limbo basically results in me popping in and out and in and out and in and out of rift state - which is not only extremely annoying, but is going to get me killed because I'd rely on being rifted in order to not be shot. Tying something as important as rift to basic movement style is like putting Nekros' desecrate toggle on shooting, or Valkyr's hysteria on sliding.

This alone has completely killed Limbo for me.

If rift state can't be an actual power like it used to be, it should at least be put on something which you rarely ever use during normal gameplay. Backflips might work (such as how you currently cancel volt's speed buff), or maybe hold the use key while rolling instead?

 

--Banishment only flipping enemies to the opposite plane as yourself. This is just plain annoying. To banish something, you're going to have to expose yourself to everything that's not banished - which is, again, extremely stupid for something with as little base survivability as Limbo.

--Banishment being an AoE. This is also incredibly annoying, and will most likely end up getting either me (if trying to single out and assassinate a powerful enemy) or my ally (if trying to banish them to keep them safe from a horde of monsters) killed.

Honestly, I liked the old Limbo much better.

see DE that a lot of players would like to have a choice or a discrimination when using banish and I totaly agree with them. please listen to our feedback and fix the AoE effect of Banish

Edited March 26, 2017 by Eldest89

[Delamir]

DE why is it you time and time again try to fix things that isnt broken. 

His first ability banish was working good on the old limbo, why are you limiting him now?

I want to be able to banish people no matter where i am. I am the rift master after all.

His passive is so clunky. why do i have to move when i want to come in and out of the rift.

If i stand still and double tab Shift, i should go in and out the rift without moving around. 

The current state he is in, you butchered him rather than fixing him.. So sad, he is my favourite frame. I hope for a fix to make him more smooth. As for now he is to clunky to play. Didn't you have your QA to test him? Or didnt you bother to listen ?

Edited March 26, 2017 by Delamir

[Entro9]

The problem with banish not working at close range is probably because you're trying to do it the old way and pull them into the rift with you. I agree they need to change it so you can pull enemies into the rift while you are as well. However I would like to say DAM freezing enemies and bullets is fun. The hikou is one of my favorite interactions as the individual stars start moving in the order you placed them so it's just a machine gun of stars instead of one big clump. It's gorgeous 

[Trichouette]

Meanwhile I'm part of the players who like this new banish change. I can bring everybody into the rift without bringing back other enemies into material plan

 

I just hope they nerf his ultimate because right now it's pretty much "press 4 to destroy ZA WARUDO"

[Clonmac]

1 hour ago, BecauseJavier said:

I've been playing a lot of limbo now that the rework has come out, and It has been very, very fun. However, there is one thing that has stood out to me:

Limbo's Banish is Practically useless.

Let me break it down:

• Only works while outside of the rift.
• Can't  use it to eject enemies from the rift while inside the rift.
• Seriously, why can't I use it to un-rift enemies while inside the rift? That's silly.
• Negligible damage from level 25 and up.
• Simply spamming cataclysm would be more effective since I can actually EJECT enemies from the rift instantaneously if needed, not to mention that even without an efficiency build you probably will never run out of energy to spam it with.

All of these things combine to make it a utterly useless ability that I haven't found myself using unless I make an actual effort to. Here's how I would Improve it:

• Make it usable within the rift, but ONLY on rifted enemies.
• Have it temporarily apply a status effect who's effectiveness scales with enemy lvl/health.

These two, hell, even just the first improvement would cause me to actually use banish, as opposed to just filing it away as a crappier cataclysm.

I think you should do some more playing with Limbo before saying things that aren't true. Trying to play Limbo using the same playstyle that you used previously will set you up for failure. Limbo is now a completely different warframe and shouldn't be played using the same tactics as before.

Banish does not only work while outside the rift. Banish can be used to eject enemies from inside the rift back to the material plane. Banish always did negligible damage, it shouldn't be considered a damage skill.

If you're in the rift with a group of enemies, you can use banish on them again to send them back to the material plane.

Here is the best thing about Banish now that many people are ignoring. Because Banish is simply unidirectional (meaning it simply sends enemies to the opposite plane you're in), then that means you can spam it without worry about bouncing the same enemies back and forth between planes. This means it is now an amazing CC ability. It has a decent range to it which means you can simply spam the heck out of the ability and send large amounts of enemies into the rift while in the material plane. You can easily just run around spamming Banish before enemies even have a chance to hurt you and immediately send them to the Rift. You can then simply put them in stasis, enter the rift and go back and do the clean up work all without taking a single shot. He is now one of the best CC warframes in the game. Cataclysm is great for large bunched up groups of units, but Banish allows you to be more mobile while Banishing large amounts of units. Also, it is much less of a hindrance on your teammates. Even if your teammates get caught up in the Banish and get sent to the rift, it won't impact them as much any more since you're also sending all the units around them into the rift as well. The problem before is that you'd send your teammates into the rift and you'd impact their ability to attack enemies. Now because you can send vast amounts of enemies into the rift by spamming Banish, you can effectively place all enemies in a room into stasis while still allowing your teammates the ability to kill them with both their weapons or their abilities.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

6 minutes ago, Delamir said:

DE why is it you time and time again try to fix things that isnt broken. 

His first ability banish was working good on the old limbo, why are you limiting him now?

I want to be able to banish people no matter where i am. I am the rift master after all.

His passive is so clunky. why do i have to move when i want to come in and out of the rift.

If i stand still and double tab Shift, i should go in and out the rift without moving around. 

The current state he is in, you butchered him rather than fixing him.. So sad, he is my favourite frame. I hope for a fix to make him more smooth. As for now he is to clunky to play. Didn't you have your QA to test him? Or didnt you bother to listen ?

Yes, please let us hold still and change Rift states. Having movement tied to it will lead to unrifting your way right into lasers in a spy Vault at the worst possible moment. 

As cool as stasis sounds, I'd rather have a zero-casting-time Riftwalk (maybe have him do a sassy fingersnap) power instead of it. 

[Frenjo]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

As cool as stasis sounds, I'd rather have a zero-casting-time Riftwalk (maybe have him do a sassy fingersnap) power instead of it. 

I love a good sassy fingersnap.

EDIT: Added supplementary image.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo

[BecauseJavier]

Just now, Clonmac said:

Banish does not only work while outside the rift. 

This is not the case for me, for whatever reason. I get what you are saying, but for me Banish becomes uncastable while inside the rift regardless of circumstance. Good to know that that does work for some people though

I would like to add that I quite like what they are going for with banish. It IS great CC. However, as I stated before, I cannot use it while inside the rift regardless of an enemy being inside the rift with me or not.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I just realized Rift Dash has no duration. I knew it had no energy cost but I didn't know you could stay in the rift forever. Imagine if you could attack things from inside the rift using your 1 ability. Nothing would ever be able to hurt you. I guess that's what people want, a broken warframe.

Please, just fix Rift Surge. Game says surged enemies killed will damage other surged enemies but there's no damage stat and it doesn't deal any damage at all.

[bubbabenali]

I hope he is just completly bugged and not supposed to "work" like this, his first 3 abilities only work randomly for me - even just activating them is a random factor...

At least his passive let's me stand around in my Zenistar field forever on Akkad now

Edited March 26, 2017 by bubbabenali

[Frenjo]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I just realized Rift Dash has no duration. I knew it had no energy cost but I didn't know you could stay in the rift forever. Imagine if you could attack things from inside the rift using your 1 ability. Nothing would ever be able to hurt you. I guess that's what people want, a broken warframe.

DE designed it that way, none of us asked for unlimited rifting, but that's the way THEY went, and now we're telling them to change it and fix banish, simple.

[Clonmac]

I'm a long time Limbo player and have written some guides on here previously for the original Limbo. I loved Limbo as he was and was very nervous that DE would change Limbo too drastically.

At first when I started playing the new Limbo, it was very jarring and I immediately concluded that Limbo was ruined. I was using the same build that I previously used because I wasn't sure how to spec him seeing as how I hadn't played him yet. I was also trying to use the same tactics as before.

After spending a good amount of time on him now testing builds and tactics, I can now say that he is still my favorite warframe. However, he is now a completely different warframe and should be treated as such. Trying to use the same builds and tactics as you did previously with Limbo will immediately set yourself up for failure. For me to understand this new Limbo, I had to approach him from a completely fresh perspective. Here are a few of my early takeaways on the new Limbo.

Previously, with Rift Surge, he was a very adept warframe at dishing out damage. He was a glass cannon because he was also very susceptible to taking damage as well. This meant that tactics and position was crucial to survival. However, now he is less about dealing as much damage and more about hard CC. He is one of the most effective CC frames on the game now. He can completely halt and CC vast amounts of enemies for longer durations of time than any other warframe is capable of.

Banish is a very critical piece to this new style of play. People who are trying to use Banish the same as they did before (picking of high priority targets from within the rift) will need to change tactics. Banish is now a CC ability. It has a very large range and is spammable against large amounts of enemies. This is the best thing about the new Banish that many are ignoring:

Because Banish is now unidirectional, you can easily spam it against all your targets while in the material plane sending all units around you into the rift where they'll be frozen in time. You won't need to worry about bouncing targets you already banished back and forth between planes. Just spam it to your heart's content and then jump into the rift where you can kill all the enemies that are frozen. I now understand why they only allow Banish to be used from within the same plane as you're in as it is this mechanic that allows you to spam it on all your enemies. If they changed that, then it would totally kill his awesome new CC ability.

Limbo can now kill large groups of high level enemies all without ever taking a single shot.

Also, being able to effectively stay in the rift indefinitely is a very nice additional. I'm impartial so far to the dash method of transition so far. Most of the time it is a benefit to be able to dash into the rift as most of the time I am moving anyway. 5% of the time when I want to stand still while rift walking it is a minor annoyance. Overall it works well.

Let also not forget that on objective defense missions he now makes Frost obsolete.

While at first his mechanics were very jarring and difficult to use, this was mostly part of my own fault to attempting to use Limbo in the same ways as I was used to. He is now a completely new warframe and must be treated as such. He went from being a glass cannon damage dealer to an extremely effective hard CC warframe. Tailor your tactics around that style of play and you'll find success.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Clonmac

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Ugh. All that work to make him just another CC frame. 

[Frenjo]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Ugh. All that work to make him just another CC frame. 

Seconded, thirded, upvoted, liked, subscribed and whatevered. And I think it's just plain in need of re-revisiting.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Frenjo

[Clonmac]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Ugh. All that work to make him just another CC frame. 

This doesn't make sense. What is there outside of either killing the enemies or stopping them from killing you? That's what this game is about. Either dealing lots of damage or stopping the enemies from dealing damage (CC). What do you want, a diplomatic negotiation frame that works out truces between you and the enemy?

There are just as many damage dealing warframes out there as there are CC warframes. That doesn't change the fact that the mechanic that Limbo uses to CC his enemies is extremely unique. Not just unique within warframe, but unique to just about any other game out there. As the devs said in the devstream, this mechanic could've easily been in a game all on its own.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

36 minutes ago, Clonmac said:

At first when I started playing the new Limbo, it was very jarring and I immediately concluded that Limbo was ruined. I was using the same build that I previously used because I wasn't sure how to spec him seeing as how I hadn't played him yet. I was also trying to use the same tactics as before.

After spending a good amount of time on him now testing builds and tactics, I can now say that he is still my favorite warframe. However, he is now a completely different warframe and should be treated as such. Trying to use the same builds and tactics as you did previously with Limbo will immediately set yourself up for failure. For me to understand this new Limbo, I had to approach him from a completely fresh perspective. Here are a few of my early takeaways on the new Limbo.

 

You can still play him the old way but you gotta use your 4 instead of your 1. This was done because the old Limbo was for 1v1 and people complained it didn't fit the game's horde style of enemies. They said he was too slow banishing 1 enemy at a time and then dueling them. I understand why DE did that to Banish. Its just too broken if Limbo is never vulnerable and it would over lap in function with his Cataclysm.

He's not just hard cc, though. He's also a nuker with how his Cataclysm scales. I've seen insane vids of one shotting entire squads of level 140 enemies by collapsing a max range Cataclysm. His Cataclysm is now also a proper barrier because of its simplified item pick up rules. And his passives gives him very high survivability with natural energy regeneration. He has survivability, defense, crowd control, support and damage. You can still use him for spy and rescue and now he's viable for excavations too.

Edited March 26, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

40 minutes ago, Clonmac said:

This doesn't make sense. What is there outside of either killing the enemies or stopping them from killing you? That's what this game is about. Either dealing lots of damage or stopping the enemies from dealing damage (CC). What do you want, a diplomatic negotiation frame that works out truces between you and the enemy?

There are just as many damage dealing warframes out there as there are CC warframes. That doesn't change the fact that the mechanic that Limbo uses to CC his enemies is extremely unique. Not just unique within warframe, but unique to just about any other game out there. As the devs said in the devstream, this mechanic could've easily been in a game all on its own.

In my opinion, and why made me love him, was that Limbo was high-precision single-target control. Additionally, the highly specific "don't touch that" "don't touch him" "don't touch me" aspect of his powers made him a very interesting, if niche, frame to use. Note: if you consider that just part of crowd control, that is entirely fair  

I can take tons of frames into a mission and blow S#&$ up or tell the hordes to stop moving for a sec; Limbo let me be highly selective about it. I found it nice to have a token nod to precision in a game where the best weapons didn't even require you to aim.

Now I'm reading that he's something like a better Frost plus better Vauban plus bigly scaling damage (that last part, at least, I predict won't last - DE doesn't seem to like scaling damage when it benefits the players)  

Just seems like, I dunno, hyping up a big rework that comes down to "does more damage."

In fairness though, you're right. DE has painted themselves into a "nuke or CC is all we can do" corner. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack