[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[DawnoftheWhiteFury]

Why does Limbo need to be in the same material plane as the target for Banish? Why was this change necessary?

Edited March 28, 2017 by DawnoftheWhiteFury

[Cyberzombie]

1 minute ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

Why does Limbo need to be in the same material plane as the target for Banish? Why was this change necessary?

because its a cone  aoe now.. so if youd use it multiple times..while more enemies approach... you would kick some out of the rift while sending some in...

 

 

but a better solution as i said would have been to affect targets on the other plane.. while in rift..affect those on material plane..to suck them into the rift and while in material plane to get them out again

[-WF-Monarch]

2 minutes ago, Cyberzombie said:

because its a cone  aoe now.. so if youd use it multiple times..while more enemies approach... you would kick some out of the rift while sending some in...

 

 

but a better solution as i said would have been to affect targets on the other plane.. while in rift..affect those on material plane..to suck them into the rift and while in material plane to get them out again

Or make Banish have it's namesake and only BANISH to the Rift.

[machasbeans]

I'm not sure how many other people noticed, but the Haven Augment for Banish doesn't work at all. I was doing testing to see if an ally walking through Limbo's portal when he dashes, would give him the health from Haven. Turns out that Haven doesn't even work when you Banish allies. Another thing I'd like to note, there is no indication for the Limbo when allies enter the rift, or for the duration of it, by using Limbo's rift portal. I'd like to see Haven fixed, despite knowing very few use it.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Granondaddy

[Echorion]

I think they plan to re-work them very soon. They may have already and are planning to put them out soon.

 

They said originally they would either rework them or add new ones. If they don't work at all, chances are they are about to do the former soon.

[machasbeans]

They changed the Rift Surge Augment, so I was under the assumption that's all they were changing with his augments. That being said, that's not really a reason for Haven to not be working whatsoever.

[Xekrin]

19 minutes ago, Granondaddy said:

Another thing I'd like to note, there is no indication for when allies enter the rift, or for the duration of it, by using Limbo's rift portal.

Every time I've entered through a limbo portal I get a buff icon for about 13 seconds at the top.

[machasbeans]

4 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Every time I've entered through a limbo portal I get a buff icon for about 13 seconds at the top.

You do, but the Limbo doesn't. Edited post for clarity.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Granondaddy

[Windy_Wind]

I seriously I don't like the AOE banish, if I want to mass banish enemy i'm just gonna use his 4th.

[Frenjo]

1 hour ago, DawnoftheWhiteFury said:

Why does Limbo need to be in the same material plane as the target for Banish? Why was this change necessary?

Yeah, that. It just makes it a less useful alternate to cataclysm.

[DeathTheLegendary1]

On 3/25/2017 at 8:47 PM, CerebrateJoe said:

Really didn't like this rebuild.  I'll try to be brief and constructive.

I'm ok with how he moves in/out of the rift.  It's awkward at first, but after a little practice you've dodging like a pro.  With practice, this is crazy fun and useful, but ya, awkward at first.

I really don't like the new Banish.  It took the best part of the old one and broke it.  It was a lot of fun pulling baddies into your arena on your terms.  Now, its just makes them go away from you.  You have to enter reality, Banish them, then back into the rift to fight them.  Why even use the rift then?  I think it makes it harder to use effectively.  I really don't like not being able to rift people from inside the rift.  The radius effect is a good change, but too small.  (Edit:  I didn't realize it was a cone/line attack.  I thought it was a circle.  Range is good now that I'm using it right.)  Even with stretch its lackluster.

I just don't care for stasis right now.  If I can banish from inside the rift I'll have a use for it, but right now, it's unnecessary.  Its a good try, though. It could be really great.  I only see it being useful for crazy high level common enemies.  I haven't tried, but I'm sure it won't work on bosses.

Rift Surge.  What even is this?  I know the rules, but its so situational I don't really enjoy it.  Its like Nova's ult, but low powered and with a banish mechanic that's difficult to use.  It works pretty good with Cataclysm, but not really with Banish.  To improve, make it a toggle or give it a cast duration that effects everything in the rift.  Spamming it with banish isn't fun.  Its just struggling to make the combo work.  This ability makes me wonder why even have the rift?  Previously I did lots of extra damage.  What does the rift do for me now?  Why do I want to take the baddies there?

Cataclysm.  Good change, but It needs to stay large till the collapse. The shrinking thing really makes it less fun and useful than it deserves to be.

Finally, every hates the rift and limbos because they prevent the collection of loot. (Edit:  The Rift, not Cataclysm)  This is a game about loot!  It's Farmframe and I can't pick things up.  This absolutely has to change.

Edit:  You can pick up items while in Cataclysm.  I love this change, and thank you DE.  This was a great change.  When I said "Finally, every hates the rift and limbos because they prevent the collection of loot." I should have been clearer that I was talking about the Rift, and not Cataclsym.

Bro u r not looking at the bigger picture here. So let me learn you how this works ok. 

1. stasis

2.banish enemy

3.go into rift 

4.rift surge enemy

5. banish enemy again

6. repeat step 4 and 5 until u r bored and want to leave.

Your banish is still your bread and butter ability the only difference is the order in which you use it. If u banish a surged enemy not only do they stay in the rift but they also drag other enemies into the rift to be surged as well, which will in turn drag more enemies into the rift and it just snowballs from there, combine this with stasis and u will never have to leave the rift and u will never die(unless there is a nullifier cuz eff those guys) and if you have rift torrent expect constant dmg multipliers of 200-1000% (depending on your build) cause u will have at least 20 enemies in the rift at any given time. If u need energy just kill some dudes to get it back. U would probably just use cataclysm to thin the herd cause u have so many enemies in the rift.

[RICK_BO]

The trollframe is back. He had his first round of giggles when we pieced him back together originally, then we got the ability to leave the rift on our own and his laughter died down a bit. Little pranks here and there, but now his arsenal's gotten an overhaul and he's back to cause more mayhem. 

Maybe I've just been continually running into trolls, maybe it's the fact that the tools used to troll are shiny and new again. But Rift portals littering the map here and there to "accidentally" slip me into the rift without my knowing. Enemies being banished here and there where I cannot touch them. With two keystrokes a Limbo can disable my guns, and Kuva floating in the air becomes impossible to spot when the Limbo won't stop with the cataclysm. 

I've been running into bugs regarding the aura units have when in the rift sticking to units that are not in the rift (mostly myself) so when a limbo's in the party I end up rolling every couple steps to make sure I am still in the material plane. It's gotten to the point I abandon missions if a limbo becomes present.

[IcicleFerret]

I've been playing with and thinking about these changes for quite a while now, and I think I've figured out why, even though these changes gave Limbo more powerful CC, I'm not in love with the rework:

It changed his fundamental play style.

When Saryn, Volt, and Ash got their re-works, it didn't alter how they were actually used. I can pick up Volt, Saryn, or Ash and play them exactly the same as I did before their reworks. Volt's shield got larger and his discharge became better at CC. Saryn still deals insane damage with the right stacking of abilities. Ash can still clear a room so long as you actually look at your targets. I can't say the same about Limbo 2.0. He handles differently, needs different mods, and requires different combat tactics. He's an entirely different frame.

As much fun as the time stop ability is, I wish DE had channeled that concept into a new frame. It has great potential, but when rammed into the same warframe that uses Rift mechanics, the result is unbalanced, unfocused, and--let's be honest--overpowered. Just allowing Banish to be toggle-able for single or multi-target and making Rift Surge a passive ability was all most Limbo players really wanted and would have made us all very happy. I guess if more people like him now than before, then DE made the correct change for their game and they should stick with it, but I still can't help being a little sad at the loss of Limbo 1.0 and everything that made him great.

I don't mean to harp on DE or sound ungrateful. They're working hard to bring us a great game, and I'm very thankful for that. I just really liked Limbo 1.0.

[NativeKiller]

Hopefully all of this feedback means something.

[ClawFinger]

is it just me, or was there a nerf to limbo's 4 get a nerf?  yesterday, with full range build and average power strength (100%ish), i could toggle 4 on and off to wipe out enemies in akkad until round 25 with ease.  His passive also proc'd on those kills and would replenish energy.  Today, no energy is being restored, and for some reason, 4 on toggle off is doing significantly less damage.  Im seing a lot of 0s...  with full range build in infested mission, due to density of the mobs, limbo's new 4 ability could do quite a lot of damage which scales with their health.  This was the only reason in using a full range build.  Now, I don't really know.. can anyone confirm this?

[SupersonicStork]

I'm actually a big fan of the new Limbo. While rift surge got nerfed in the damage department, it's compromised by making him more able to keep enemies in the rift and by making the ability more interesting overall. Furthermore, the ability to on-off stasis quickly is very good for doing a "stop motion" of damage application. I feel that stasis overcomes the lack of the ability to single target banish and the benefits that come from that play style, and it's a very fun ability. I also like how you can now spread banish by using banish ---> roll ---> rift surge --->banish. Cataclysm is now even better with the new rift surge, making it so that the enemies who are initially caught by it almost never escape it.

I think the nulifier issue is less of an issue with Limbo and more of an issue with nulifiers, we've had problems with nulifiers on other frames as well, it just happens to be more pronounced on an ability reliant frame like Limbo. I do miss the high damage numbers from full power strength Limbo + Naramon, but that felt cheesy and I don't miss the play style, as I can now use other weapons and not have to die as soon as I stop meleeing.

Banish, I kinda like the changes, and I'm not opposed to this staying as it is. Spam it while in the rift to get rid of people/ send them to be dealt with by your allies. Having to go to the material plane in order to banish is a bit clunky and acts as a weakness of his, but I almost never get hit when I dodge to the material plane to banish, then dodge back again. A solution to this clunky feel may be a hold to banish to rift and press to banish to material plane.

While other frames can clear quicker with their cc, Limbos cc is much more effective, completely locking down enemies, if you play him right. The sheer amount of different interactions between his abilities are a step towards a direction that Warframe seems to be taking as of late, and it's one I like. He is my most played frame, and after this update, I don't think that will change.

Tl;dr : good rework, fixes a lot of the problems with him, whilst giving him a weakness

[Wander132]

I've noticed that with throwing weapons or weapons that are not hitscan in general, when you throw them in stasis and unfreeze them, they don't all hit like a truck at once. Instead, they fire off individually at a "normal" fire rate. Is this a bug or on purpose? Cause we saw in the old devstream that the hikou, for example, worked as you'd expect like the hitscan weapons do, but now they don't. And, if it is on purpose, then why would you ever bring anything but hitscan weapons into stasis for him since the enemy will probably just step aside from your comparably slow firing torrent of projectiles?

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

Hey DE if you do change Limbo go about how you did with Nidus. Next in my opinion even though I play on console Limbo's rework is spot on and Scott did a great job. Limbo was cool to me but the only thing with his powers were the fact that he was missing crowd control. Yes being able to banish enemies to the rift was cool but limbo himself was to squishy to stay in the rift alone and now that he has power over time in the rift it allows him to stand on his own which is great also need it. This rework also increases his effectiveness as a tactician/assassin style frame.  

Edited March 29, 2017 by (PS4)Seabastion25

[IcicleFerret]

24 minutes ago, Wander132 said:

I've noticed that with throwing weapons or weapons that are not hitscan in general, when you throw them in stasis and unfreeze them, they don't all hit like a truck at once. Instead, they fire off individually at a "normal" fire rate. Is this a bug or on purpose?

Not sure why they changed it from what was shown in the devstream, but it's not a bug. It's a "feature."

[Ceadeus]

Limbo: I'm the master of time and space!  I control passage into alternate dimensions and bend them to my will!  I can push anyone and anything into an alternate plane of existence!

Nullifier: I have a metal bird that follows me and somehow now justifies me overpowering a magic space ninja robot SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO WARP REALITY and ripping him out of his home territory in an alternate dimension.

gg DE.

Make a nice rework to a frame that actually makes him enjoyable then immediately throw some bullS#&$ changes at him that make no sense purely for the sake of making content less fun to play and less viable.  Honestly, Limbo snaps time and space over his knee, but some dime-a-dozen drone-level 300-per-mission Corpus with an arbitrary drone beats him out?  What?  Like at least with casting abilities it makes sense because you can argue that nullifiers just mess with the "energy" or whatever.  But you're now telling me these bubbles ALSO get to cross time and space and F*** us over?  Hell why not just have an enemy that strips us of all our weapons?  How about one that instantly knocks us to one health just by looking at us?  Why not?  Might as well add more bullS#&$ to the pile.

Edited March 29, 2017 by InsanityKey

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, InsanityKey said:

Limbo: I'm the master of time and space!  I control passage into alternate dimensions and bend them to my will!  I can push anyone and anything into an alternate plane of existence!

Nullifier: I have a metal bird that follows me and somehow now justifies me overpowering a magic space ninja robot SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO WARP REALITY and ripping him out of his home territory in an alternate dimension.

gg DE.

Make a nice rework to a frame that actually makes him enjoyable then immediately throw some bullS#&$ changes at him that make no sense purely for the sake of making content less fun to play and less viable.  Honestly, Limbo snaps time and space over his knee, but some dime-a-dozen drone-level 300-per-mission Corpus with an arbitrary drone beats him out?  What?  Like at least with casting abilities it makes sense because you can argue that nullifiers just mess with the "energy" or whatever.  But you're now telling me these bubbles ALSO get to cross time and space and F*** us over?  Hell why not just have an enemy that strips us of all our weapons?  How about one that instantly knocks us to one health just by looking at us?  Why not?  Might as well add more bullS#&$ to the pile.

Man I feel your pain 100%......I lost it after the patch when I got nullified out of the Rift Plane today.

[nameomnz]

Hello everybody. I kinda want to talk about Limbo's new ability "Stasis"

As we all know and love/hate this rework Stasis is a very strong CC ability that stop time and projectile and we can see how much fun we have with it.

I'm as well has some fun using it. But I cant lie that I hate it. Becasue I mainly use gun not melee them to death.

I cannot determine how many bullets do I need to kill that spesific enemy. So I'm going to always overkill them or not enough to kill them

In a team setup, You got to really excuse your team to use thier melee. Or they simply doing nothing.

Even after this rework, Nobody going to have a good time playing with limbo in a survival or Sortie where you can only use Primaries or Secondaries.

Can we please tweek his Stasis or give us an augment that make stasis less pain to use.

 

Also I want to point out some bug with his stasis

-Beam weapon is **** with his stasis

-If there another limbo use stasis. Your rift will be affected as well.

 

Let me know what do you think about his Stasis

[darksithis002]

i'm loving the limbo rework! the only problem i have per say is the fact that i have to jump out of the rift now to cast 1 on enemies, but other than that I am loving his rework. great job, and thanks for it.

 

EDIT: oh, and another thing that is weird, i don't think he should be taken out of the rift by nullifiers, as he's in a different plane of existance/dimension, and their bubbles don't cross dimensions. I can understand if you are in the regular plane and one has a bubble that you can't go into it, but if your already in it, you shouldn't be able to be pulled out.

Edited March 29, 2017 by darksithis002

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

7 hours ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

While this is true, Rift Torrent scales on the amount of people in the Rift. Without multiplane banish, a small Cataclysm won't hold enough people. Less people = less damage. Now the only way you can kinda work around this is by using Rift Surge so that when the Cataclysm gets too small, they reenter the Void and possibly take others with them if they are close enough. Now you have to still kill them off as quick as possible because the Nullifier might try to move in and leave you vulnerable. So while a small Cataclysm is smart, just be careful.

Rift Torrent is connected to 3. I'd imagine Limbo players running in a squad would never leave their 4 up. Instead, they would use 4 only to catch enemies and the cast 3 to surge them. Afterwards, they would collapse their 4 but because of 3, they would all stay in the rift.

This isn't just to not annoy squad mates with his 2 but its also that 2 doesn't over load with other people's bullets.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I read his Cataclysmic Continuum mod isn't working properly either. Not sure if that's true or people just expect it to prevent the bubble from shrinking. Its not supposed to prevent the bubble from shrinking.