[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)psycofang]

10 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Cataclysm now does less damage the bigger it is, with damage increasing as the size decreases.

Also, the damage dealt is based on average HP+Shield of the enemies inside, not the total amount. 

The hotfix appears to only apply to the PC version at the moment. 

Eh not too shabby tbh im ok with it.

 

Not like i used cata as a max range nuke though they hit its damage twice over, i thinks a bit too far but whatever. 

Hes still fine and hopefully rift torrent doesnt get trashed on.

[Shadu]

Welp, I'm benching Limbo (my favorite frame). I feel like he is in a worse state now compared to before the rework.
I find that stasis while in theory sounds cool, in practice it doesn't have a place in warframe; it makes the gameplay way too slow and puts the action of your allies on a complete stop.. now if we could control who is in the rift and who isn't and we don't have to go to the material plane to get something in without having to use cataclysm and rift surge had a bigger default aoe range it might be better..
But currently the only useful spells are cataclysm+stasis and they are just a too big of an annoyance to other people in your squad for me to consider using him.

Now with the nerf to cataclysm, which had to happen but I don't think they went the right way with the nerf, he feels rather useless. He feels weaker than before the rework, I don't think you can properly fight strong enemies with him anymore so he is mostly for using his cataclysm to kill small/lesser enemies. Yet you can't properly banish a stronger enemy without putting yourself into likely death due to how banish works now.

Them making the damage scale with your cataclysm shrinking means they also have no intention at all to remove the shrinking of the ability, which means the augment Cataclysmic Continuum is still completely useless. GG DE I really don't understand how you can screw up like this.

What does he have going for him now? Banish is AoE? Yeah I much rather would have it be single target if that meant it can target both planes. Stasis? As I've stated before, it interrupts gameplay completely, makes it insanely slow and stops your allies which is in no way okay. Rift Surge? The only good part about that ability now is the augment. Cataclysm? It is basicly back to how it was before the rework yet it's your best way to bring enemies into the rift due to the change to banish.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Shadu

[Lanceidor]

The recent change seems drastic. I was hoping it would keep some damage potential to Cataclysm. Right now the damage is laughable, but I get it. Cataclysm got a big range and it's tricky to find a balance, so err on the side of caution.

Here's where I feel like the damage is way underpowered: When I can't reliably break resource deposit containers with a 195% Strength Cataclysm (regular containers are no problem even with low Str however). I know it's a small trivial thing, as I can just go break it open myself with melee or use another frame to clear containers. But come on, does the damage really have to be this pitiable?

[MobyTheDuck]

2 hours ago, Buzkyl said:

The cataclysm nerf happened exactly how i expect, people who only saw Limbo for a nuker now find him useless and likely will move to the next easy Nuke frame in their roster

The problem is more that he was overnerfed rather than balanced. The damage that Cataclysm does now is so laughable that it cant even break resource deposits.

The change on the full sized bubble doing only 25% damage would already be a perfect balance, you would have to wait for the bubble to end to get full damage, but the further nerfing with changing the damage calculation just totally killed any damage AND scaling it had.

Its kinda like what they did with Mag. They nerfed her Shield Polarize to work with like a increasing wave, like Nova's MP, and that would already nerf the nuking potential by a lot. But they went further and made the skill do a capped amount of damage, making it useless with Corpus enemies past level 30, unless you add all possible STR mods you have. They also barely changed her other skills, making Mag a one trick pony with Bullet Attractor.

Always bring a good melee, because will start to see more max range/duration Limbos spamming Stasis

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, Shadu said:

Welp, I'm benching Limbo (my favorite frame). I feel like he is in a worse state now compared to before the rework.
I find that stasis while in theory sounds cool, in practice it doesn't have a place in warframe; it makes the gameplay way too slow and puts the action of your allies on a complete stop.. now if we could control who is in the rift and who isn't and we don't have to go to the material plane to get something in without having to use cataclysm and rift surge had a bigger default aoe range it might be better..
But currently the only useful spells are cataclysm+stasis and they are just a too big of an annoyance to other people in your squad for me to consider using him.

Now with the nerf to cataclysm, which had to happen but I don't think they went the right way with the nerf, he feels rather useless. He feels weaker than before the rework, I don't think you can properly fight strong enemies with him anymore so he is mostly for using his cataclysm to kill small/lesser enemies. Yet you can't properly banish a stronger enemy without putting yourself into likely death due to how banish works now.

Them making the damage scale with your cataclysm shrinking means they also have no intention at all to remove the shrinking of the ability, which means the augment Cataclysmic Continuum is still completely useless. GG DE I really don't understand how you can screw up like this.

What does he have going for him now? Banish is AoE? Yeah I much rather would have it be single target if that meant it can target both planes. Stasis? As I've stated before, it interrupts gameplay completely, makes it insanely slow and stops your allies which is in no way okay. Rift Surge? The only good part about that ability now is the augment. Cataclysm? It is basicly back to how it was before the rework yet it's your best way to bring enemies into the rift due to the change to banish.

I brought him out again, see if I could find the fun, but...eh. Did a Kappa spy (limbo is primarily a spy frame for me). Zero kills; just entered the Rift and walked through.

There's a little bit of lulz in being able to just walk past enemies as they unload everything they got into you, but that won't last. I mean, at least old Limbo you had a time limit to manage with Rift walking. Now it's just a matter of whether I can suppress the old habit of rolling. 

I'm benching Limbo too. See if they rework the rework. 

Edited April 20, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[malekas]

DE makes Cataclysm too powerful

 

Community asks for tweaks

 

DE smashes Limbo's kneecaps with a sledgehammer

 

Way to over nerf guys. You might as well have removed all damage from Cataclysm, it would have been easier. Oh well, at least I can still use Limbo in solo missions. God knows you can't use him in a group, his abilities are the very definition of troll.

[malekas]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I'm benching Limbo too. See if they rework the rework. 

Get in line, Mag was here first.

[Mypi]

They're good. That's all.

[ashrah]

On 3/24/2017 at 10:39 PM, Darkmoone1 said:

Being unable to banish targets while in the rift makes the frame excessively risky and clunky. He should be able to banish no matter the state he's in.

i wish think to post that issue too.. cz on high levels its super risky to not be in rift..

[X3Evanescence]

Just make Banshee's Silence recastable and it will be all good.

[Buzkyl]

First and foremost, cataclysm "spam" was inevitably to be nerfed, considering how wide the AoE is and the damage capable, DE was bound to nerf it seeing how greatly it was being abused.

What we got was this.

Limbo Changes:

• Cataclysm now deals different amount of damage over the time it exists: 25% Damage when bubble is full size, 100% at its smallest size.
• Cataclysm damage scaling now uses average Health + Shield instead of total Health + Shield of enemies within.

Either of the changes would've been ok as a nerf. The first would effectively make cataclsym spamming deal 25% less damage, forcing users to instead let thier bubble to expire naturally to regain the full damage dealt. The second would greatly decrease the damage cataclsym spamming would now deal.

However together, the skill is very bad if it is to be considered "scaling".  Currently, you have to wait the full duration to deal less damage than previously. The rework also failed to address several of cataclsyms's problems

• As the bubbles shrinks it forces enemies out of the rift, meaning less possible enemies are going to be affected by the initial blast. As well as less possible enemies to add to the possible damage to be done.
• The augment Cataclysmic Continuum is still useless, It does not add any range to the bubble nor mitigate the shrinking feature anddue to the way the bubble works now,  adding more duration to the bubble's  life is counter productive

Yes, the ult spamming how to go but the nerf was far to heavy handed. At it's current state, it fails to kill even weak unarmored enemies at mid level.  As utility skill cataclsym remains unchanged, but if the  skill damage is to be considered "scaling" while not promoting spam it has seriously missed it's mark.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Buzkyl
formatting

[Buzkyl]

The Limbo change might as well removed the damage aspect of it.

Right now the skill takes a longer time to deal less damage than before with no benefits to allowing the bubble to shrink.

[Sithis32]

7 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

The Limbo change might as well removed the damage aspect of it.

Right now the skill takes a longer time to deal less damage than before with no benefits to allowing the bubble to shrink.

The benefit of cat isn't the explosion it's the sinurgy with stasis

[Buzkyl]

Just now, Sithis32 said:

The benefit of cat isn't the explosion it's the sinurgy with stasis

They specifically wanted Cataclysm to have a form of scaling damage so it is better at higher levels. It fails to do so currently.

[Seinerweisen]

Limbo was never meant to 

16 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

F

Yes, the ult spamming how to go but the nerf was far to heavy handed. At it's current state, it fails to kill even weak unarmored enemies at mid level.  As utility skill cataclsym remains unchanged, but if the  skill damage is to be considered "scaling" while not promoting spam it has seriously missed it's mark.

Limbo was never meant to be a Nuke. Hes a support type frame not DPS. LimBoom was a mistake that has been fixed. 

[Stormandreas]

2 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

They specifically wanted Cataclysm to have a form of scaling damage so it is better at higher levels. It fails to do so currently.

I don't recall them ever stating that they want Cataclysm to have scaling damage. Limbo has, and always will be, an isolation and CC warframe. He's not designed to do silly levels of damage.

[Sithis32]

2 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

They specifically wanted Cataclysm to have a form of scaling damage so it is better at higher levels. It fails to do so currently.

with high dur + max range you can shut down alot of the map 

[(PSN)psycofang]

36 minutes ago, malekas said:

DE makes Cataclysm too powerful

 

Community asks for tweaks

 

DE smashes Limbo's kneecaps with a sledgehammer

 

Bit of a correction

De makes cata too powerful

90% of the louds mouths who dont know what they want come tripping over themselves to tell everyone how bad they want limbo nerfed/they hate limbo/blah blah nlah/giving him a -role- when there really wasnt one.

 

10% trying to work with the rework and keep it balanced.

 

De hits the damage two fold when 1 nerf would have been enough.

 

[Buzkyl]

5 minutes ago, Seinerweisen said:

Limbo was never meant to be a Nuke. Hes a support type frame not DPS. LimBoom was a mistake that has been fixed. 

Octavia, Equniox, Mag and in some part Ivara are all support frame but are still capable to scaling form of damage.

Limboom had to have been nerfed because it was unhealthy for the game, however being a support frame does not mean his damage abilities shouldn't be somewhat useful at higher levels.

If Cataclsym was centered around utility only, they can simply remove the shrinking feature and the damage. Which actually would be a fantastic buff as it allow his augment to find greater use.

[Buzkyl]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

De hits the damage two fold when 1 nerf would have been enough.

 

This part, i don't see why it was double nerfed.

[LunarEdge7]

51 minutes ago, X3Evanescence said:

Just make Banshee's Silence recastable and it will be all good.

I find that just makes her too good. Why do you think it should be re-castable? I like some cons in my abilities.

[shut]

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Limbo Changes:

• Cataclysm now deals different amount of damage over the time it exists: 25% Damage when bubble is full size, 100% at its smallest size.

Whoa, this sounds amazing! Cataclysm's damage is now practically perfe--

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

• Cataclysm damage scaling now uses average Health + Shield instead of total Health + Shield of enemies within.

[Seinerweisen]

12 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

Octavia, Equniox, Mag and in some part Ivara are all support frame but are still capable to scaling form of damage.

Limboom had to have been nerfed because it was unhealthy for the game, however being a support frame does not mean his damage abilities shouldn't be somewhat useful at higher levels.

If Cataclsym was centered around utility only, they can simply remove the shrinking feature and the damage. Which actually would be a fantastic buff as it allow his augment to find greater use.

Limbos whole shtick has always revolved around him dragging enemies into  the Rift and dealing massive damage to them. He is still capabe of that. The Rift still buffs his damage. The whole point of Cataclysm was to drag large groups of enemies into the Rift which it still does. Once there, Limbo unleashes hell. Does it scale? Not insanely like it used to but with the right augments, Limbo's damage output in the Rift is still quite impressive.

[LunarEdge7]

I'm okay with its present state. I use the rift to enjoy my time setting up bullets to kill them (Za warudo), not to cast a nuke that feels both like World on Fire and Molecular Prime.

[MobyTheDuck]

Like I said on the other thread, all the nerf did was remove the damage/scaling potential of Cataclysm.

Limbo Nuke was something that needed changes, but he didnt deserve to get both his legs broken.

Its a shame that overnerfing happens to be a common thing on this game. Sometimes even buffs comes with non-sensical nerfs to 'not spoil us'.