[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)salovel1991]

9 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And you thus assumed that the whole world plays on american servers? Now that's ridiculous.

 

They were spanish i assume? Or rather young maybe? Exceptations to this sheme. Don't worry about them. Europe DOES have individuall pairing and chatservers, even on PC. Those people you encountered probably joined the US servers for cheaper trading or for more active servers without having mastered the language. One does have to be rather experienced to even consider doing this tho. They sure won't need your advice.

I've seen Russian, Brazilian, French, Polish, and recently Portugese I think. It was impossible to tell what they were saying or typing. So me trying to direct anything at them would be like talking to a wall. I happened to be Limbo. He stepped in front of my banish target. He messaged me with "fdp" no idea what that means, I messaged him back "Roll to cancel?". His response "FDP!". Considering this game is spread across continents I think a few little icons at the bottom for Volt and Limbo at least wouldn't break anything. 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

23 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

many of us have been saying this and the response it seems is "im a limbo main learn what the rift is and how to play around it" i laugh every time but it doesnt change the fact that limbo is intrusive just like you described. 

That's super wrong. It should be "I'm a Limbo main. I should learn to make sure my rift doesn't get in the way of my squad mate's play style." I've always practiced Limbo that way. Its why he's the "gentleman" frame. You need to learn discretion when you play him in PUGs.

Don't banish people unless they ask for it. Drop Cataclysm when its getting in the way. Revive everyone because you have a 99% chance to do it more successfully than others without getting themselves killed.

Of course I can't expect that from everyone that just plays Limbomb all the time but they can't call themselves good Limbo players if the don't practice that etiquette.

[JalakBali]

I don't get the new Banish. They already added a new mechanic where Limbo can freely and without energy leave a door to get into the Rift for teammates. Why not just use this as the Banish teammate? We should still be able to Banish allies but should not be able to do that to other Tenno. The doorway Limbo left when rifting and the Tenno entering it should last as long as current Banish. This way teammates could only get "trolled" if the Limbo ran in front of them and leave a door for them to accidentally get into. That's harder to do than current. Make the door must be "passed" to get into the rift so you can't shift someone hacking since they're standing still.

[EinheriarJudith]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

That's super wrong. It should be "I'm a Limbo main. I should learn to make sure my rift doesn't get in the way of my squad mate's play style." I've always practiced Limbo that way. Its why he's the "gentleman" frame. You need to learn discretion when you play him in PUGs.

Don't banish people unless they ask for it. Drop Cataclysm when its getting in the way. Revive everyone because you have a 99% chance to do it more successfully than others without getting themselves killed.

Of course I can't expect that from everyone that just plays Limbomb all the time but they can't call themselves good Limbo players if the don't practice that etiquette.

stating that you have to get permission to play as intended is a clear sign of his intrusiveness and its also something you shouldnt Have to do. thats like telling someone playing ember they should ask the team if they can use Wof.

Edited April 7, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[malekas]

So, any plans on getting rid of the tear Limbo makes when dashing? Because it's annoying the piss out me.

 

I keep accidentally putting myself back in the rift when I don't want to.

If I dash out of the rift to hack a console when I was in front of it, now I have to wait for the tear to go away.

Following behind a Limbo who dashes a lot means you're dodging his little land mines he leaves everywhere.

 

It needs to go.

 

Also, I'm not sure the cone aoe for Banish was a good idea. If you play with a Limbo that actually uses Banish (which is a rarity after the change), he'll be constantly banishing his teammates without knowing it. At first I thought the Limbo was trolling me, then I realized he was just trying to Banish enemies and hitting me by mistake.

[Demon.King]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Another posibility is making it drain 1% of Limbo's total energy per enemy exploded.

Heavily disagree. This would punish more the players who go for a buildup of units than those who spam it.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Demon.King

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Just now, EinheriarJudith said:

the fact that you have to get permission to play as intended is a clear sign of his intrusiveness and its also something you shouldnt Have to do.

I actually don't mind it. It adds character to the warframe. Reminds me of how Superman is always careful about his strength like he always needs to treat everything is made of card board and doesn't want to accidentally destroy anything. But that's just me.

I always thought that Limbo's intrusiveness is the down side or price you need to pay for his power.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I actually don't mind it. It adds character to the warframe. Reminds me of how Superman is always careful about his strength like he always needs to treat everything is made of card board and doesn't want to accidentally destroy anything. But that's just me.

I always thought that Limbo's intrusiveness is the down side or price you need to pay for his power.

this isnt an MMORPG where you need to communicate with the different rolls in the group to acomplish the mission. communication is optional here because it is a horde shooter not a tactical one. im not going to be complacent about it because DE needs to work on team synergy between frames not just power synergy within the frame.

[dopey_opi]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I actually don't mind it. It adds character to the warframe. Reminds me of how Superman is always careful about his strength like he always needs to treat everything is made of card board and doesn't want to accidentally destroy anything. But that's just me.

I always thought that Limbo's intrusiveness is the down side or price you need to pay for his power.

It isn't much of a downside for Limbo himself.  It's just a downside for anyone unfortunate enough to be stuck in a party with him.  And yes, in an ideal world all the Limbo players would be conscientious of and unintrusive.  Reality is nothing like that ideal world.  It's as if the Synoid Mirage and Telos Boltace crowd all decided to take Limbo instead, they act exactly the same.

Oh and God forbid you try to be Titania in a party with a Limbo.  If you get banished in 4, you need to deactivate razorwing, roll, and recast.  And then the Limbo will have the arrogance to get mad when you tell them to stop.  This has happened a lot for me.

[Demon.King]

8 minutes ago, malekas said:

So, any plans on getting rid of the tear Limbo makes when dashing? Because it's annoying the piss out me.

 

I keep accidentally putting myself back in the rift when I don't want to.

If I dash out of the rift to hack a console when I was in front of it, now I have to wait for the tear to go away.

Following behind a Limbo who dashes a lot means you're dodging his little land mines he leaves everywhere.

 

It needs to go.

 

Also, I'm not sure the cone aoe for Banish was a good idea. If you play with a Limbo that actually uses Banish (which is a rarity after the change), he'll be constantly banishing his teammates without knowing it. At first I thought the Limbo was trolling me, then I realized he was just trying to Banish enemies and hitting me by mistake.

You can also unbanish yourself if you back-dash into it while trying to enter rift. It's a terrible idea really.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Demon.King

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

How would you guys like it if the original "Over Load" system for Limbo was included in game for him? Originally, Limbo was going to have an over load system that stopped him from using his powers for a short period of time as mentioned in Devstream 88. It was to enforce management of his power instead of abusing it.

Would you guys like it if he had an overload system? Not just for Stasis but for Cataclysm too.

For example. If his 300 bullet limit on his Stasis pops, it deactivates and his energy instantly becomes 0. If you collapse 2 Cataclysms within a fixed duration of 30 seconds, his energy instantly becomes 0 on the second collapse.

 

[Xardis]

3 hours ago, Ozent said:

1. Rather than banish being able to be used abywhere, since it makes a target/targets hard to focus, make it just the opposite of what it is right now, i.e. pull enemies into rift while in rift, or pull enemies back out when not in rift.

2. I'm pretty sure DE put that self projectile stop as a downside of being able to just freeze enemies. Making it channeled I don't really know,it's fine as it is now. Since I run natural talent speed drift lmao. EDIT: Hence the projectile limit.

3. You forgot 3

4. That's just cata without the scaling. They should make it like 5~8%, and make it scale with power strength, making overextended make it bad. And remember, it's based off of current health, not max health, so at 5% you need to capture 20 enemies essensially and have 4x corrosive projection to do the full damage.

Rift. Bad idea, all you have to do is spam cata then get out lmao. Also, I interpret what Ordis said as be careful where you leave/enter the rift, i.e. dont leave rift into a bunch of enemies, or enter rift into a bunch of enemies. If staying in rift too long applies debuffs to tenno, then the effect would be added to affect enemies too, which I think would be a pretty bad idea. Just banish the enemies and let them die over time?, who needs cata or stasis? Just banish every enemy in the map. EDIT 2: Oh I just saw you applied it to enemies, yeah, read my thought about it right above. You literally wont need your other 3 skills, just banish.

 

I listed changes to abilites, numbers are not numerical points but the number of ability, I dont have anything to change with Rift surge.

To adress your points. Pulling enemies in would be far better than pushing them out. If that change was implemented I would be happy. ut since Limbo is supposed to be a master of the rift, giving him both abilites would reflect that more than giving him one or the other.

Right now freezing projectiles is very team disruptive. You just make entire groups unusable for other players. Changes I gave would fix that. There is also a point that there is not feedback how many shots does the target need. In normal t you can see the healthbar dropping. Other thing is a bug when you shoot bunch of bullets in the rift and exit it to make them damage enemies in realscape. I replicated this many times solo.

As to the cata - I took away its damageing abilites and gave them to the rift. Cata would work to banish whole region with enemies to see them loose their mind and attack each other. Spamming it as its done now would be way less prodictive.

Its your interpretation. Mine is that rift is a dangerous place and you have to be careful. Damage from leaving the ridt would be minimal in most cases. Damage over time would kill every enemy in 75s. As oposed to spaming cata. And you cant even mod banish to have 75s, max duration possible is 70.5s. You would have to banish and then surge each enemy group you encounter. Yes, they would die over time. But you have Daynox who can build up a high range nuke in half of that time. Killing them manualy would be faster then by DoT. The debuff as you put it doesnt apply to Tenno, it applies to Limbo only. Forgot to specify that.

 

Changes I listed would address current problem people have with Limbo - cata spam, team unfriendly and chlunky to use - not fitting for a Master of the Rift.

[Demon.King]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

How would you guys like it if the original "Over Load" system for Limbo was included in game for him? Originally, Limbo was going to have an over load system that stopped him from using his powers for a short period of time as mentioned in Devstream 88. It was to enforce management of his power instead of abusing it.

Would you guys like it if he had an overload system? Not just for Stasis but for Cataclysm too.

For example. If his 300 bullet limit on his Stasis pops, it deactivates and his energy instantly becomes 0. If you collapse 2 Cataclysms within a fixed duration of 30 seconds, his energy instantly becomes 0 on the second collapse.

 

That's just plain stupid. So your team will troll you by spamming fire in rift and you can't adjust cataclysim before a fixed time.

STOP ASKING FOR THINGS THAT WOULD HURT ALL LIMBO PLAYERS, NOT JUST THE SPAMMERS!!

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

this isnt an MMORPG where you need to communicate with the different rolls in the group to acomplish the mission. communication is optional here because it is a horde shooter not a tactical one. im not going to be complacent about it because DE needs to work on team synergy between frames not just power synergy within the frame.

A few months ago when devstream 88 was shown and Limbo's rework was revealed, everyone had the same thought. Its gonna make him a bigger troll than ever. The rework showed it was gonna make a better Limbo but since Limbo has always been not squad friendly, it was gonna make him a better troll as well.

At this point, I think DE intentionally made him to have bad squad synergy. Otherwise they would have made his rework focus more on squad synergy than anything else.

Old Limbo for me was fine. I just wanted Surge and Walk to be a single buff. If they did that, I would have been happy since I never really needed to cheese things in the rift with Stasis because of Naramon.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

7 minutes ago, Demon.King said:

That's just plain stupid. So your team will troll you by spamming fire in rift and you can't adjust cataclysim before a fixed time.

STOP ASKING FOR THINGS THAT WOULD HURT ALL LIMBO PLAYERS, NOT JUST THE SPAMMERS!!

If you really are a good Limbo player than you know how to practice Rift Management. Just tag your enemies with Surge then kick all your squad mates out by closing Cataclysm. If that still overloads then that's all on you. Besides, he's got more powers than just Stasis and Cataclysm. I get by perfectly fine on sorties just by playing Rift peek a boo with a Sancti Tigress, a Blast built Sonicor and a Blast built Jat Kittag.

[EinheriarJudith]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

A few months ago when devstream 88 was shown and Limbo's rework was revealed, everyone had the same thought. Its gonna make him a bigger troll than ever. The rework showed it was gonna make a better Limbo but since Limbo has always been not squad friendly, it was gonna make him a better troll as well.

At this point, I think DE intentionally made him to have bad squad synergy. Otherwise they would have made his rework focus more on squad synergy than anything else.

Old Limbo for me was fine. I just wanted Surge and Walk to be a single buff. If they did that, I would have been happy since I never really needed to cheese things in the rift with Stasis because of Naramon.

i agree with everything you said here. he is a great solo and an even better solo since the rework. but people dont always like playing alone and DE should account for that. few want to roll up into a squad to troll the rest of us want to be of use to our other team members but not at the expense of needing to ask them if we can play the frame the way it was intended. i myself am guilty of not wanting to use limbo because i feel i might be stepping on toes and that is more to do with knowing he is intrusive.

[Sakatchi]

Did you know that Cataclysm scales off of health and shields?

Did you know anyone can murder corpus and infested?

Did you know armor counters limbo's cataclysm hard?

Did you also know that basically all of his power comes from an augment?

Did you know this is not a bad thing since he needs to sacrifice a mod slot to actually nuke things?

You now know these things, and now have no reason to complain about limbo's Cataclysm.

I'm really starting to think that one thread about nerf wanters being people who are butt hurt about not scoring top in kills during missions was right, cause this is silly.

Wheres all the threads complaining about stasis, that's the only annoying thing about him really.

[Demon.King]

1 minute ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

If you really are a good Limbo player than you know how to practice Rift Management. Just tag your enemies with Surge then kick all your squad mates out by closing Cataclysm. If that still overloads then that's all on you. Besides, he's got more powers than just Stasis and Cataclysm. I get by perfectly fine on sorties just by playing Rift peek a boo with a Sancti Tigress, a Blast built Sonicor and a Blast built Jat Kittag.

You don't tell me how to play, and you don't get to dictate what defines a good limbo player.

Take your elitist S#&$ somewhere else.

[CitShell]

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Another posibility is making it drain 1% of Limbo's total energy per enemy exploded.

My general build is default sized Cataclysm with 200% Power Strength (using Rift Torrent augment as well) and 30% Efficiency. I cast bubble and Statis when I need to protect objective or if I need to get rid of annoying targets.

Now for some math: 35 energy to precast Statis + 70 energy for Cata + 35 for Surge (mostly reserved for really high level runs), which equals to 105/140 energy just for setup. Athough I'll regain all spent energy with passive + Syphon + Zenurik, using maxed Primed Flow and popping Cata to reset range (if I fail to kill every single target during 38 seconds) will cost another 64-128 energy. Should I also mention that I'm kinda relying on Quick Thinking to prevent one shots from stray bullets? Oh and it seems like closing Cataclysm no longer refunds 10 energy per killed enemy after recent patch.

At low levels I won't have any issues whatsoever, but once I start fighting high level enemies my energy efficiency will go down the drain.

I'd rather see 10% being lowered to 5% and/or be affected by Power Strength.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Re6ellion

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

32 minutes ago, Demon.King said:

You don't tell me how to play, and you don't get to dictate what defines a good limbo player.

Take your elitist S#&$ somewhere else.

And that way of thinking is what's gonna get Limbo nerfed from all the complaints. Its hardly even about him being OP, its about him being intrusive and the complaints are kind of legit. Instead of having DE change that kit and have that warframe we like nerfed into oblivion, why not understand that a squad has more than one person on it?

Most people aren't gonna think that way because, you know, we're people. We only think about ourselves. But if DE placed some kind of "risk of abuse" system on Limbo, players will be more inclined to use him discretely and not step on other people's toes without stepping on their own.

[Darkuhn]

11 hours ago, Cat__Nap said:

I agree with OP - I didn't realize it was giving infinite energy, and that being the case, the ability needs to be the exception to his passive. That might slow it down enough to balance it without ruining its damage dealing capability.

you could also make its % based dmg scale negative with powerrange, so that a huge cataclysm would be not as effective as an concentrated one.

This would even prevent some problems that other team members have with the combination of Cataclysm and Stasis.

Like not being able to shoot any enemy on the map because of the excessive use of huge Cataclysms. 

It could also give Cataclysm a more tactical use.

[-N7-Leonhart]

41 minutes ago, Sakatchi said:

Did you know that Cataclysm scales off of health and shields?

Did you know anyone can murder corpus and infested?

Did you know armor counters limbo's cataclysm hard?

Did you also know that basically all of his power comes from an augment?

Did you know this is not a bad thing since he needs to sacrifice a mod slot to actually nuke things?

You now know these things, and now have no reason to complain about limbo's Cataclysm.

I'm really starting to think that one thread about nerf wanters being people who are butt hurt about not scoring top in kills during missions was right, cause this is silly.

Wheres all the threads complaining about stasis, that's the only annoying thing about him really.

"Anyone can murder Corpus and Infested"? You make absolutely no sense. Sure, anyone can murder Corrupted and Grineer too. Of course, if you really fail to see the problem with Limbo, then there is nothing to discuss as I know nothing I say will make you see things otherwise. Limbo right now is anything but balanced. 2 pushes of a button and everything around him dies. Throw in come CP auras and all 4 factions will stand no chance.

[low1991]

What is wrong w limbo atm? other than those insanely annoying unnessary uneeded eye-candy visual effects?

[MarkGumGear]

Now limbo can also used for excavation like support for others players, but you need to have more duration and range, the problem is just one, the enemies that are out of cataclysm cannot be attacked, so you have just to wait enemies join in the cataclysm and then active Stasis to block enemies for so much seconds , just kill with meele weapon. Furthermore i noticed that with cataclysm , more the time and seconds pass, more the dmg of cataclysm is high when you disactive the ability.

[DinendalMinyatur]

2 hours ago, dopey_opi said:

Before, Limbos were rare in the party.  I saw them as annoying but not overly problematic because they were few and far between.  See them every now and then on Kela De Thaym sorties, Kuva floods, and there wasn't anything wrong with that. 

And that was why Limbo sucked before rework. He was only useful in rescue,sortie defense, kuva siphon and Kela De Thaym. He barely survived against multiple lvl 50+ enemies if you want to play like everyone else and not hide in rift forever. Would you want him to be a trash frame again?

2 hours ago, dopey_opi said:

Now they're everywhere.  You can't escape meeting them and when you do, you can't escape from being forced into the rift again, and again, and again

What kind of Limbo's are they? Cataclysm spammers? When I play limbo I try to hold some point with my small cata bubble+stasis. I'm pretty sure I'm not forcing anyone into the rift.