How to fight Macro Spamming

[Jeoxz]

10 hours ago, Trichouette said:

Wait what...?

I don't need a macro to spam ctrl+E like a moron, and there is a limit to how fast that can be spammed.

 

They don't need to fight against macro users because they allowed macro to be used, as long as the macro doesn't play for you

Some people were way above moron speed, with whips you need to go trough some of the animation to apply damage, old TB just needed to start and the slash wet off. I only saw one macro user and the waves from the TB were stacking like crazy.

 

Yes they do allow it and the rules are vague for people that need them(not sure how but they do exist). But the Telos Boltace was the main point of macro discussion.There was a chance people would use it to start bending the rules, so they just shut that down.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

First time hearing about macros on ps4, how can you be so sure that you saw them? Slide melee is easy to do if you change melee to R1. I personally can spam slide melee for hours at consistent pace.

[SilvaDreams]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

First time hearing about macros on ps4, how can you be so sure that you saw them? Slide melee is easy to do if you change melee to R1. I personally can spam slide melee for hours at consistent pace.

Macroed or sometimes called Turbo controllers have existed going back to the NES, kinda why you have to use the provided equipment at tournaments so you can't use a modded controller.

[Trichouette]

12 hours ago, Jeoxz said:

Some people were way above moron speed, with whips you need to go trough some of the animation to apply damage, old TB just needed to start and the slash wet off. I only saw one macro user and the waves from the TB were stacking like crazy.

 

Yes they do allow it and the rules are vague for people that need them(not sure how but they do exist). But the Telos Boltace was the main point of macro discussion.There was a chance people would use it to start bending the rules, so they just shut that down.

I can assure you I don't need a macro to reach the max speed of spinning attack spamming...

Just training and fingers of steel :D

[(PSN)Crixus044]

14 hours ago, Kusungphak said:

 

Thank you for your concern but can you please be more worried about the platform you play on instead of suggestions for another. 

The Telos boltace is already nerfed. What you are suggesting is a nerf for every single melee weapon. This goes beyond the usual can you nerf this frame or weapon thread. 

Congrats you win the Nerf this thread of the month.

 

 

As i said, this really isn't a nerf at all unless you are a melee maiming strike, spammer, which most of these responders most likely are. Then all it will do is slow it down, and NOT by much at all. 2 slides per second is quite fast. Please all of you, stop being so dramatic. This is not such a huge change that will ruin your playstyle whatsoever.

[Aeromancer]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

As i said, this really isn't a nerf at all unless you are a melee maiming strike, spammer, which most of these responders most likely are. Then all it will do is slow it down, and NOT by much at all. 2 slides per second is quite fast. Please all of you, stop being so dramatic. This is not such a huge change that will ruin your playstyle whatsoever.

I believe the point he was making is that a console player has no business making suggestions for the PC platform.  You wouldn't want a PC user who doesn't play the game on consoles to start making suggestions that directly affect how you play the game on the PS4 "for the sake of PS4 players", would you?  Worry about your own platform and we'll worry about ours.

[Heckzu]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Absolutely not. I don't know where you got this notion, but let me correct it. Pressing slide attack repetitively is not the issue, the speed of it going to an inhuman rate is what i have an issue with 

 

21 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

 Isn't that basically what my idea is, have a speed limit? .5 seconds is pretty fast, but if it's not fast enough, it can be lowers, just have a limit. 

Anyone who has played enough of games that required quick button comboing (Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, GunZ, StarCraft, etc.) can do simple Ctrl+E combos at least 2 or 3 times per second. StarCraft players have been known to be able to execute 300  to 600 actions per minute, or 5 to 10 button presses per second. Just because you can't so something rapidly, it doesn't mean others can't.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

12 hours ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

First time hearing about macros on ps4, how can you be so sure that you saw them? Slide melee is easy to do if you change melee to R1. I personally can spam slide melee for hours at consistent pace.

The Legend Himself uploaded a YouTube video about him soloing a raid in destiny,  and he later responded to that video admitting to using a macro. Destiny is a console only game so no chance of it being played on PC.

The key binding for slide melee you use for ps4 is exactly what I use. It's the classic controls that i modified just a little. I slide attack about 2-3 times a second consistently when using my orthos prime. 2 times a second is exactly what I was proposing.

[Aeromancer]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The Legend Himself uploaded a YouTube video about him soloing a raid in destiny,  and he later responded to that video admitting to using a macro. Destiny is a console only game so no chance of it being played on PC.

The key binding for slide melee you use for ps4 is exactly what I use. It's the classic controls that i modified just a little. I slide attack about 2-3 times a second consistently when using my orthos prime. 2 times a second is exactly what I was proposing.

Rather than making a proposal based on your personal experience using a console controller for tests, you should instead be surveying the PC players for how many slide attacks they can manually pull off in a second and the type of keyboard they're using or if they've mapped their keys to a gaming mouse.  If the keyboard is mechanical then ask them which switches are being used, some switches are made for rapid fast clicks while others are more suited for typing documents and programming.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The Legend Himself uploaded a YouTube video about him soloing a raid in destiny,  and he later responded to that video admitting to using a macro. Destiny is a console only game so no chance of it being played on PC.

The key binding for slide melee you use for ps4 is exactly what I use. It's the classic controls that i modified just a little. I slide attack about 2-3 times a second consistently when using my orthos prime. 2 times a second is exactly what I was proposing.

Well how would you know if someone is using macro? Introducing 1s cooldown won't help solve anything, macros can be configured to replicate any timing. If anything it would make it harder for regular players to slide melee.

Edited April 19, 2017 by (PS4)iBoiz

[(PSN)Crixus044]

38 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

 

Anyone who has played enough of games that required quick button comboing (Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, GunZ, StarCraft, etc.) can do simple Ctrl+E combos at least 2 or 3 times per second. StarCraft players have been known to be able to execute 300  to 600 actions per minute, or 5 to 10 button presses per second. Just because you can't so something rapidly, it doesn't mean others can't.

Me PERSONALLY can button mash to the high heavens. With my max speed orthos prime and r1+l1 slide melee binding, i can hit 4-5 slides a sec. But this isn't about me. This is an option i am presenting for

2 hours ago, Aeromancer said:

Rather than making a proposal based on your personal experience using a console controller for tests, you should instead be surveying the PC players for how many slide attacks they can manually pull off in a second and the type of keyboard they're using or if they've mapped their keys to a gaming mouse.  If the keyboard is mechanical then ask them which switches are being used, some switches are made for rapid fast clicks while others are more suited for typing documents and programming.

I DO have an account on PC, but since all my friends are on ps4 and since i have all my best gear on console, i don't play it as often. Make no mistake, I'm a steam player, but i use this account for most of my stuff. Please note that the only reason why this is somewhat directed towards PC players is because macros are more common on PC, but turbo controllers and console macros are fairly often seen, just not widely accepted since it is like cheating. The most amount of slides I've seen manually done in a second by myself AND seen on YouTube is around 3 to 4 per second, and I doubt that a majority of players do this, not because they can't, but because it is not an interesting or intended playstyle.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

Well how would you know if someone is using macro? Introducing 1s cooldown won't help solve anything, macros can be configured to replicate any timing. If anything it would make it harder for regular players to slide melee.

First off, please recheck the original post. That info is outdated. And it will NOT affect your playstyle in the slightest. A 0.5 second cooldown is not noticeable.

[Carnage2K4]

On 19/04/2017 at 3:10 AM, Hemmo67 said:

wellp from what i know macros run trough a programm right?

why not just add a "cheat detector" that would detect macros and these people who use em get couple days of ban and if they keep doing it. do a month

LOL I don't use macros often but when I do it's via the Logitech Gaming Software... the same software that controls my Mouse functions, KB and Headset , any sort of "cheat" detection like this would essentially render my Gaming PC as useless. All my Abilities, sprint, melee etc are directed from my mouse, I only use basic moment on my KB.

DE allows the use of macros due to disability, some people are not able to endlessly spam stuff manually, there will never be a macro ban.

Edited April 20, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[(PSN)Crixus044]

42 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

LOL I don't use macros often but when I do it's via the Logitech Gaming Software... the same software that controls my Mouse functions, KB and Headset , any sort of "cheat" detection like this would essentially render my Gaming PC as useless. All my Abilities, sprint, melee etc are directed from my mouse, I only use basic moment on my KB.

DE allows the use of macros due to disability, some people are not able to endlessly spam stuff manually, there will never be a macro ban.

You are 100% right. This is why I'm not saying to ban macros, but because macros open the opportunity to inhuman capabilities with your controller such as in this scenario, lightning fast sliding, managing it to be within human capabilities would be more manageable. Slide spamming itself has been a problem with warframe, but that is something for DE to decide if they want to change. I'm just trying to keep the game human.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

First off, please recheck the original post. That info is outdated. And it will NOT affect your playstyle in the slightest. A 0.5 second cooldown is not noticeable.

You missed my point, macro users would simply tweak their settings to match whatever cooldown De implements. Even if slide attacks were brought to reasonable speed, De would most likely still nerf telos boltace. It had both high range, damage, great stacking capability with relentless combination and maiming strike, and many people complained it was too op. De always nerfs whatever receives that much attention.

The nerf to Telos Boltace wasn't because of macros. De just thought it was too powerful, just like any other weapon they nerfed.

[Kusungphak]

Your are contradicting yourself. 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Me PERSONALLY can button mash to the high heavens. With my max speed orthos prime and r1+l1 slide melee binding, i can hit 4-5 slides a sec. But this isn't about me. This is an option i am presenting for

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

A 0.5 second cooldown is not noticeable.

If you can do it most certainly thousands of players can. Button mashing is not really a skill, so your suggestion for 0.5 sec delay would definitely be noticeable. 

Your delay suggestion is not going to help if someone is using a slide attack macro as they can just program the delay in.

You made a suggestion which I disagree with. Most certainly lot of others agree with me too. No more point posting guess we have to agree to disagree. I am out. 

I DO have a PS4 but I don't play on it as my friends are on PC but I think warframe in PS4 should have self damage from elemental melee for the sake of PS4 players. _Joke

[Carnage2K4]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

You are 100% right. This is why I'm not saying to ban macros, but because macros open the opportunity to inhuman capabilities with your controller such as in this scenario, lightning fast sliding, managing it to be within human capabilities would be more manageable. Slide spamming itself has been a problem with warframe, but that is something for DE to decide if they want to change. I'm just trying to keep the game human.

I'm aware of your suggestion, I was responding to the person I quoted.

 

30 minutes ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

You missed my point, macro users would simply tweak their settings to match whatever cooldown De implements. Even if slide attacks were brought to reasonable speed, De would most likely still nerf telos boltace. It had both high range, damage, great stacking capability with relentless combination and maiming strike, and many people complained it was too op. De always nerfs whatever receives that much attention.

The nerf to Telos Boltace wasn't because of macros. De just thought it was too powerful, just like any other weapon they nerfed.

I think you've missed the point of the OP, he's aware that people would still use macros, his suggestion is to stop spam (both manual and automatic) of the slide attack, not to stop the macros themselves.

 

Edited April 20, 2017 by Carnage2K4

[Arniox]

On 4/19/2017 at 5:34 AM, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

The reason why I bring this up is not for my sake, but for the sake of PC players. Telos Boltace may have been nerfed a while back, but mainly because macro spammers abused the system and DE didn't know how to stop them. Being on console, i can say for certain that this nerf would not help that much, because there are plenty other weapons to macro spam, like atterax, orthos p, kesheg, secura lecta, etc. Macros are not used often on consoles, but i have seen them. The problem is the use of macros.

The best way to fix this is to introduce a 1 second wait period between slide attacks. Realistically, unless you intentionally build for slide attacks, you slide maybe once or twice every combo, so introducing a .5 second period between slides would certainly not affect players in the slightest, and without a macro, .5 second per slide is a reasonable speed at which players slide attack anyways. Melee speed mods do not affect how fast you wait between slide attacks anyways; all it does is make the sliding animation faster, so this doesn't affect builds. All this would really do is prevent people from macroing or overloading the slide mechanics.

I am going to make this as clear as possible. You CAN still use macros, and you can spam slide melee all you want, but it will have to be at a reasonable speed. You won't be able to manipulate it to get such ridiculous speeds, that these people make a mission boring for his team. 2 slides per second is a reasonable speed. If you want to know yourself, grab a watch, and count 2 slides per tick.

Edit: Going into a mission recently, i believe 1 second may be a bit excessive, so I'm thinking .5 seconds would be much better. 

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Hope you like them. 

Really? You do know that your "once or twice per combo" is NOT realistic on PC? It's easy as hell to move fast enough and finger your keyboard enough to look like a Marco? It might be hard on console, but not everyone that can spam is using a macro. I use keyboard and mouse macros solely for spamming 1,2,3 and 4th abilities cause I find stuff like ev hard on my hands, but I'm still easily able to move and spin fast enough to spin like a macro. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

12 minutes ago, Kusungphak said:

Your are contradicting yourself. 

 

If you can do it most certainly thousands of players can. Button mashing is not really a skill, so your suggestion for 0.5 sec delay would definitely be noticeable. 

Your delay suggestion is not going to help if someone is using a slide attack macro as they can just program the delay in.

You made a suggestion which I disagree with. Most certainly lot of others agree with me too. No more point posting guess we have to agree to disagree. I am out. 

I DO have a PS4 but I don't play on it as my friends are on PC but I think warframe in PS4 should have self damage from elemental melee for the sake of PS4 players. _Joke

It's not necessarily a contradiction because i don't (and most players don't) play like that, so for normal melee use, it is not noticeable. I was just trying to prove that even a low-life ignorant console pleb like me can slide real fast. Only way you'd notice is if you spam slide melee, which it seems everybody here does and flips out at the idea of messing with their playstyle.....WHICH IT WILL NOT. 2 slides a second is not slow at all. But like you said, I'll agree to disagree. 

To me, a ability to spam slide attacks is cheesy as all hell, but i don't mind it AS MUCH if you are doing it by hand, but most people don't, which macros make this playstyle more appealing than those that do it by hand.

32 minutes ago, (PS4)iBoiz said:

You missed my point, macro users would simply tweak their settings to match whatever cooldown De implements. Even if slide attacks were brought to reasonable speed, De would most likely still nerf telos boltace. It had both high range, damage, great stacking capability with relentless combination and maiming strike, and many people complained it was too op. De always nerfs whatever receives that much attention.

The nerf to Telos Boltace wasn't because of macros. De just thought it was too powerful, just like any other weapon they nerfed.

That's perfectly ok. As i said many times, my gripe is not with macros or macro users, but it's with macro users that tweak their settings to get ridiculously high speeds, which are inhuman. It could even be at a speed within human capability abit normally would take hands of steel, but most users probably don't, and if you didn't have a macro, you probably wouldn't do it.

[Arniox]

On 4/19/2017 at 5:50 AM, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Or just put an input-speed detection routine in, and if the commands are received faster than "living human" threshold, slow them down. Or drop a banhammer on the player for a day. Add "Using Macros is a violation of the TOS and may result in a temporary or permanent ban" to the EULA. 

Unfortubally there is a massive difference between scripting and mouse/keyboard macros. Scripting is technically bad, but not all of it is bad. And they can't ban you for using tech you paid good money for. In reality, they can't do much besides that speed routine thing. But even then, some people are really good at moving fast. Vets like myself to warframe, have gotten very used to spinning insanely fast. It may be different on consoles, but on PC, spinning is easy as hell to abuse and go "too fast for humans".

[(PSN)Crixus044]

12 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

I'm aware of your suggestion, I was responding to the person I quoted.

 

I think you've missed the point of the OP, he's aware that people would still use macros, his suggestion is to stop spam (both manual and automatic) of the slide attack, not to stop the macros themselves.

 

Thank you for explaining that, and it's a little bit of both, because slide spam to me is a little ridiculous, but that is not my call to say of it's OP or not. If you have hands of steel and can do it, then to me, you've earned it, but most people don't have that and they'll use a macro to substitute, even pushing inhuman levels with a macro, and that right there is my main problem.

Edited April 20, 2017 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Avynire]

One trick that I like for slide attack is binding crouch key to thumb button the difference is night and day. Easier to perform slide attk, bullet jump. 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

35 minutes ago, Arniox said:

Really? You do know that your "once or twice per combo" is NOT realistic on PC? It's easy as hell to move fast enough and finger your keyboard enough to look like a Marco? It might be hard on console, but not everyone that can spam is using a macro. I use keyboard and mouse macros solely for spamming 1,2,3 and 4th abilities cause I find stuff like ev hard on my hands, but I'm still easily able to move and spin fast enough to spin like a macro. 

 I'm aware of the capabilities a keyboard and mouse has. I play PC too. I'm not a Ps4 player making PC suggestions. Please understand that. I was basing the 1 second cooldown from my console play, but after logging on my PC account at work (hush hush) i realized that .5 second is more reasonable since it is much easier on pc.

[ComCray]

Again with this? 

Listen, first, do not EVER assume because someone executed a move you deem impossible, the move really is "not humanly possible". I've ran several tests (exactly because of this ridiculous discussion) and I can tell you that you don't need a macro to pull off spin slashes at a high rate. Doing it without a macro is about 200% more efficient then doing it with a macro. There will be exceptions but these are rare to the point of being irrelevant.

Second, don't ask for a ban on X where Y is the thing that annoys you. Sounds to me the problem, as usual, is not the macros. It's the way in which people use certain moves to cheese a mission. Again, I don't need a macro to spin-clear a whole level. Nobody does. So even if macros would be banned completely, you'd STILL have people spin-clearing a whole level for you. In Other Words: macro-banning solves NOTHING for you.

Third, look at this clip, this would be a far more elegant and logic solution to the problem many of you seem to have with the spin-slide. It's already in the game, it makes perfect sense and it would break the slide-spam as good as any simplistic banning or cooldown mechanism offered in this thread. 
The funny thing is, I've been mentioning this solution over and over again yet no one seems interested in picking this up and are stuck in this "BAN THEM ALL" mindset. Which makes me think y'all not in this for a solution but just here to whine about it.

Last, this discussion has been raging for months now. Everything that can be said has been said a thousand time over. What made you think your solution hasn't come up a gazillion times already?

One interesting point: when the TB was the old TB we had a thread like this once every day. Since the nerf this seems to be the first. Which pretty much supports my argument that it is NOT about the macros and has never really been about the macros, but merely about the sound+visuals ruining everybody's screen. 

[Arniox]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

 I'm aware of the capabilities a keyboard and mouse has. I play PC too. I'm not a Ps4 player making PC suggestions. Please understand that. I was basing the 1 second cooldown from my console play, but after logging on my PC account at work (hush hush) i realized that .5 second is more reasonable since it is much easier on pc.

...i don't think your seeing the point that people here are making:

1. From what I've seen, only one or two people agree, the rest say no. We don't care about your idea. 

2. Even if a delay was implemented, people would still abuse the system and spam. Garinteed. 

3. There is actually already a delay based on the animation of the weapon. So your idea it's already in game, just with a probably 0.25 or 0.125 second delay. 0.5 seconds is too long. 

4. Plz stop with the Nerf/banhammer posts. Most disagree, and if DE notices a massive playtime and abuse of certain weapons,  they'll Nerf it. EG: Telos boltace 

[jfhsanseiIII]

I don't really see it as that dominantbif an issue right now.   With Telos Boltace's functioning the way it currently does, I've not seen people spamming S2W.