Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Urlan]

26 minutes ago, LokiTheCondom said:

Actually - I recall that he did. Not sure which devstream but I know that I was baffled by that bit. Was it also Scott that told us to just farm Mutagen Samples with drops-boosting frames as a way of saying "Shut up and go farm the loot with an abysmal got a crap tier weapon"

Could be, though I think it was DE Steve that said the now meme-tastic 'Go to the Derelict, its raining mutagen samples there!'

[Music4Therapy]

7 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

My Valkyr Prime is built for power strength, so that I can have a LOT of melee speed when I use Warcry. She's got a 90% Steel Fiber and maxed out Armored Agility, before Warcry, has 1645 armour. When I use it, it gives me a 128% armour increase as a bonus to the melee speed. She also has a maxed out Vitality, for 740 health. She can tank 8 Level 120 Corrupted Bombard rockets between two Corrupted Bombards before getting killed on the 9th, without blocking.

"Naked", that is, without armour mods or warcry, she can take one hit before dying on the next. Again, without blocking.

With my current build, my Oberon will reach 82 hp/s regen and 411 bonus armour, putting him at 561 armour. Depending on the timing of the rockets between two Level 120 Corrupted Bombards he can take between 4 and 6 before kicking the bucket. Again, without blocking. This is without him being at his "best", with no formas and no exilus and no Transient Fortitude or blind Rage. Just Growing Power, Intensify, and Energy Conversion.

You are wrong.

I should have clarified, when I said "about as tanky as a naked Valkyr" it was in regards to being one shot from full health. To that end, you do mention shield gating being a thing in the future which would render my argument here null and void. That said, I still am against Rage being a source of energy for the majority of the cast of frames, Oberon included.

If you paid attention to the video, you would have noticed he wasn't using Sword and Shield. He was using Gazal Machete, which is a fine enough weapon if admittedly not the best ever, but is pretty great among machetes. As for how many weapon types grant 85% damage reduction, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but they constitute about a third of the weapon "types", and most of them constitute some of the most commonly used melee weapons. They include, for instance: Heavy Blades (Galatine, Galatine Prime), Hammers (Fragor Prime, Jat Kittag), Nikanas ('nuff said), Polearms (Lesion, Orthos, Orthos Prime, Vaykor Sydon - which works rather well for blocking as it can also charge up a Radial Blind), Machetes (Gazal Machete), Scythes, and only finally Swords & Shields.

Ahh, my eyes deceived me. And yes, I am aware of the DR rates of the different weapons.

Doesn't particularly need one. Plus, it's worth noting that you start getting pretty diminishing returns after 500 armour, which he can reach rather easily. You're overestimating the value of armour past a certain point. Even if I didn't use Warcry, my Valkyr Prime sitting at 1645 armour only gets 84% damage reduction. My Oberon gets 65%. End result, she only takes about half again as little damage, but unlike Oberon, lacks health regen as part of her kit, only life steal as part of her 4, which I tend not to be using a whole lot as its damage output is... regrettable, compared to my actual melee weapons. The health regen closes the gap quite significantly, and if I jam Power Drift in Oberon's Exilus it'll be closed further still as he'll get both more armour and more health recovery.

The best part about Iron Renewal is how well it scales with power strength. I want to say first I do not overrated armor, I personally was hoping prior to the rework that he'd receive a flat DR % similar to Trinity's 75%, that would go much further because it would stack with his armor. 300 armor is 50% DR while 600 is 66.6% DR iirc, which is why I had originally wanted flat DR. That said, Iron Renewal scales amazingly with power strength because not only does it raise EHP significantly, the HP/S goes up significantly as well and is worth more per point the higher his EHP. Power strength goes a very long way on Oberon and I wish there was a way in my build that I could make use of that, but that would severely hurt my CC capabilities.

You are severely underestimating him and just how useful Rage is on him. With shield gating coming down the pipe guaranteed to reduce the frequency of random one hit kills by a significant margin, he'll be well suited to join Valkyr as a tank. In fact, the two would likely pair rather well together, between her armour buff on warcry and his health regeneration for teammates, they'd only really enhance each other in a way that few other 'frames could.

I addressed this a bit in my previous answers. That said, while I agree that Oberon can hold his own, there is one thing I look for when I play tank frames and that is i-frames. Otherwise in endless, the one shots will keep on coming. It's why I stick away from Chroma. Rhino, Valkyr, and Wukong each have easily accessible i-frames within their kits. That said, with shielding gating being a thing in the future having i-frames is not going to be as important in endless missions as it once was.

I've never relied on armour stripping to any significant degree. My damage output or damage methods, most of the time, result in killing them fairly easily without needing to. I tend to view Corrosive Projection and armour stripping in general as a crutch that prevents people from going out of their way to find methods for hunting grineer that don't rely on coordinating a full team of auras. There's rarely any reason to go far enough in a survival mission that armour scaling becomes a significant issue, Trials have eight players and it's guaranteed four of them are going to be bringing Corrosive Projection so there's no real need for you to, and Sorties I find can be managed just as well with a hek to the face or an invisible Galatine to the legs, without needing to rely on abilities, so I can feel free to use Naramon's Shadow Step there.

As far as I'm concerned, Reckoning's "armor stripping" is a nice bonus, and nothing more. I'll use Smite on the priority target to interrupt them, then Reckoning to get bonus damage on him and finish irradiating the rest of the party, and whatever few enemies aren't infighting and decide to target me are likely not strong enough to kill me so I'll get plenty of energy back from Rage.

I was again speaking from an endless survival perspective, which I should have been clear about. It's why I stick away from Rage typically. I also don't use Naramon as I feel it takes the fun out of the game (stealth is broken, imo) I agree btw, I typically build for slash+viral and high status+crit to completely bypass armor all together. That said, I stand by the point about Oberon's armor stripping requiring too many casts to actually matter. If I'm at a point in an endless mission where crit bleeds+viral isn't doing the trick and I need to strip a target of armor, than Oberon isn't a frame I'd look to for that. It feels largely redundant in its current iteration, I feel as though the ability should be able to easily strip enemies of armor so that his scaling-damage ability Smite can do the work. That would have really allowed him to scale endlessly. I digress

This is, admittedly, the best argument you've made. But I'd also argue that you're wrong, too. Each of Oberon's abilities, as they are right now, are strong independently. A single target knockdown and confusion that will make nearby enemies target it, as well as use its health to damage those very same nearby enemies. A "magic carpet" that constantly confuses and damages enemies while offering you complete status immunity, with an augment that turns it into a straight up nuke that can and does fry enemies with considerable ease. Team health recovery over time that will increase team survival rate by an insane amount, with an augment that gives them one free life every minute and a half. Wide area knockdown and confusion, plus a chance for a little bonus if something actually dies from it, although it is admittedly a bit of a panic button and should not be particularly relied upon, especially if you've got carpets already confusing enemies.

Every one of those is a decent skill in its own right. Oberon's synergy between 2 and 4 is pretty meh and again, from my perspective, is a "nice bonus". Not worth specifically aiming for, especially if it'll mess up your remaining energy pool. Oberon's synergy between 2 and 3 is very nice, especially with regards to team survivability, but it does not make or break him on its own. Oberon hasn't been combo based in the past, nor is he now. He gets nice bonuses, but doesn't rely on them anywhere near to the same degree as, say, Saryn.

That's the problem, they're decent at best. Hallowed Ground as an independent ability feels like a nerfed down version of Nezha's Fire Walker and serves more as the foundation of his kit than anything else when I feel as though it should also be the catalyst, for example.

And I would argue that said bandaid is all he needs. His energy consumption is being blown out of proportion by people who try to spam every single ability as much as they possibly can. Plus, he is well-built for being shot in the face. He is nearly as tanky as Valkyr Prime plus armour mods plus warcry, and is also in a good position to use Guardian Derision and blocking weapons. We have a myriad methods at our fingertips for fixing his "energy consumption issue", so enclosed in quotation marks because I do not believe it to actually be a significant issue. Also, again, I would argue the opposite.

He lacks the sustain in his kit to get by with a boost to his energy pool,  then against I guess that's on the player. Duration based frames do well with large energy pools due to the time between refreshes to build their energy.

But his kit strongly suggests that you use external means for recovering energy. When you can become as tanky as Valkyr, possibly moreso if you use even basic maneuvering to sidestep danger for a couple short seconds, it makes him well suited to taking damage or blocking to recover energy. When your passive involves buffing your pet companion to have greater survivability, and your kit only builds on that, it makes him well suited to taking a companion that can help him recover energy as he is one of the few 'frames that significantly reduces said companion's chances of death.

I definitely get the vibe that we have very contrasting playstyles, then. And that's fine, I like constantly making use of the synergies within his kit and I do blow through energy like crazy doing so.  As mentioned earlier, I'd love to drop more strength onto em.

Kubrows/Kavats are 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's worth noting that on page... 50 or 51, I forget which, I outlined what changes I myself would make to Oberon to improve synergy in a way that would reduce unnecessary energy expenditure slightly, and indeed actually included a mechanic that would allow for a chance to make energy orbs appear, small though it was, but that's as much of a team bonus as it is a bonus for the self.

 

 

[LazyKnight]

39 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

This goes for anyone else. If we're all doing it wrong with oberon. Please. Show us the RIGHT way to oberon beyond 'he's a low level frame. don't ever dare stick your neck into a high level mission.'

I know that someone will show this type of builds works for soloing up to level 70ish. Although, It doesn't work much past that level.

 http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Oberon/t_30_0234020030_2-7-10-5-2-5-6-0-5-8-8-5-19-3-10-55-4-3-59-6-3-411-5-10-479-1-10_6-11-479-7-5-5-19-7-55-9-411-8-59-9-2-12-8-14-f-f_0/en/1-0-15

This solo build can work for today's sortie 2. I didn't have any energy problems solo, but as a solo player i was only healing myself and I was using rage.

So i guess he is balanced for level 70 solo, or at least that it could be argued. Still, I see Oberon as a paper deer that can't take a hit. Survival depends on using 1 and 2 everywhere to avoid as much as possible and not healing anyone else.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by LazyKnight

[Xekrin]

13 minutes ago, Neo3602 said:

Any thoughts on this issue?

Whether it gets fixed or not my suggestion as a workaround until then would be (if you are so inclined to heal them) is to activate renewal to heal his shadows then turn it off, move away and turn it back on for yourself.  I mean only if your intent is to help out the nekros and his minions.  Otherwise try to keep out of range of shadows.

On devstream Scott said the oberon rework shall "sit for a while" to gather feedback before anything else is changed, and we all know how long that can take.  Unless this is considered a major problem demanding immediate resolution, it may be months before it gets taken care of.

[n_0x]

20 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

You're misrepresenting pacify.  While very good, it takes time and damage on yourself to build to significant level and even then is a very fragile ability.  Again another ability that functions differently, I don't know why you're comparing them.  You're also brushing over the issue of her taking longer to respond to situations than Oberon can.

The whole nidus/inaros bandwagon?  It's like your not hearing me and stuck in some parroting loop.  They are different frames with different expectations, at least by me.  However, feel free to ask every frame to simply be Nidus,  or you could just take Nidus into every single mission that you run and just pretend its name is Oberon?

Back on topic:

Main goals I'd like for Oberon

• Make him a beast while on Hallowed Ground (He can be overwhelmed while on it currently)
• Just buff his armor gifts and armor stripping (Don't be afraid)
• Make Hallowed Ground match reckoning range
  • It's fair if HG requires 1 stretch to reach best potential. (It is still to small with 1 stretch equipped)
• Release a Tower shield/Mace weapon

Oberon is a jack of all trades hence why you said ," So you bring Oberon over someone else if you want to help out any combination of balanced or unbalanced frame teams." And how else did you put it ? (i.e. tank/tank/tank/oberon - healer/tank/dps/oberon). Really oberon over trinity in a triple tank comp? And oberon not a great support frame like vauban? Or a support nezha? Or even Nidus?
And this is the huge part of what you're misinterpreting, hence why I brought him up, is that Nidus is also a jack of all trades except better.
Because Nidus is: 

• A tank
• A healer
• CC
• A support
• An Offensive frame
• A Defensesive frame
• A Utility frame
• And give buffs

 

So by all that merit Nidus is a jack of all trades. And weird those are things Oberon does but not as good across the board. 
Look I get it we all want Oberon to be great but that's not gonna be a thing unless we admit the truth to wanting the rework to begin with: he needs a new kit. Badly.
Because we're just gonna go through this again," Oberon feels lackluster compared to everyone else can we have a rework?"

[Ardhanarishvara]

5 minutes ago, n_0x said:

Oberon is a jack of all trades hence why you said ," So you bring Oberon over someone else if you want to help out any combination of balanced or unbalanced frame teams." And how else did you put it ? (i.e. tank/tank/tank/oberon - healer/tank/dps/oberon). Really oberon over trinity in a triple tank comp? And oberon not a great support frame like vauban? Or a support nezha? Or even Nidus?
And this is the huge part of what you're misinterpreting, hence why I brought him up, is that Nidus is also a jack of all trades except better.
Because Nidus is: 

• A tank
• A healer
• CC
• A support
• An Offensive frame
• A Defensesive frame
• A Utility frame
• And give buffs

 

So by all that merit Nidus is a jack of all trades. And weird those are things Oberon does but not as good across the board. 
Look I get it we all want Oberon to be great but that's not gonna be a thing unless we admit the truth to wanting the rework to begin with: he needs a new kit. Badly.
Because we're just gonna go through this again," Oberon feels lackluster compared to everyone else can we have a rework?"

Nidus's tanky capabilities only really extend to himself. Ravenous isn't strong enough to significantly improve the livelihood of other teammates on its own. Larva is good for interrupting enemies, but only a few of them and for only a short time.

Oberon's tanky capabilities EXTEND TO HIS WHOLE TEAM. You can make EVERYONE near-Valkyr levels of tanky, more if your team actually knows how to dodge. And the nice thing is, he doesn't need to replace Nidus, or Trinity, or Valkyr. He works well alongside them. Because he is a SUPPORT first and foremost, and is only made even better with the presence of other supports. Parasitic Link will make Renewal and Iron Renewal even stronger, and Ravenous will totally stack with Renewal. Blessing's damage reduction will work ON TOP of the armour buff and healing, and furthermore Renewal's armour buff and healing will reduce the number of times where Trinity's burst healing is actually needed, and Energy Vampire will give Oberon a lot more leeway for spamming his abilities, reducing the battlefield to chaos. Between Blessing and Oberon, deaths should be so rare that using Reckoning will give enough of an opening to quickly revive a fallen teammate.

[Ardhanarishvara]

5 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

Why do I get the feeling this thread is devolving into an argument? Just because i'm angry and have a headach or is everyone here starting to get punchy?

Well, it is. But that's not a bad thing, as long as people stay civil. To paraphrase an anime, the sparks that fly when people have different opinions and clash with each other are very pretty. To elaborate on that, it can help both sides to realize the flaws in their own arguments and further improve them, creating a better overall picture for everyone involved of every pro and con of any potential ideas. End result is that DE, if they do actively read this thread, should get a much clearer idea of what everyone thinks and should be in a better position to make further changes should they deem it necessary.

It's especially important that people do not simply say "it's fine as is", as yes-manning leads to mediocrity. Not that I'm accusing anyone of this, but arguing in and of itself can be an important tool for improving things. It's one thing to say "I'm happy with it currently." It's quite another to say "I'm happy with it currently, but could be even happier still." One should not take having reached the minimum bar for quality as reason to celebrate and say "It's done!" This is, of course, just a general statement, and I'm again not actually accusing anyone of doing any such thing. I just feel it needs to be said.

[Milinko]

I would rather just take off that bonus energy drain for healing more people it really makes me want to not heal anyone other than myself BTW he can heal objectives like cryopods and the trams in lor. Having the Bonus energy drain really makes him a god mid tank but a bad heal becaus say Nekros Mendquinox and let's not forget the holy Trinity don't have that additionAL energy drain making them better for team heals. Or at the very least heavily reduce it. Trinity instant heals and gives damage mitigation for gods sake.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I would have to agree with the op! Everything I've seen of the rework is "meh." He just simply doesn't do much of anything well. He heals better now, but still just doesn't provide any real benefit in a mission as every other Frame does something more useful than Oberon in his totality. 

I haven't yet been able to play with the rework as of yet, but from everything I've seen he his alarmingly subpar. 

I feel it's just sad as Oberon is so cool looking and is a personal favorite of mine. He just isn't useful besides low levels and high power strength builds. In total he is completely underwhelming. 

Why D.E. why? 

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I mentioned in another thread that Oberon, from everything I've seen, has now become overly complicated with all of cross-buffs, and now suffers from a less effective kit overall. 

Which is sad, he simply doesn't do anything well enough even with  the rework to be really useful, especially when you understand that there are other frames in this game that are far more effective. 

 

[malekas]

39 minutes ago, Milinko said:

I would rather just take off that bonus energy drain for healing more people it really makes me want to not heal anyone other than myself BTW he can heal objectives like cryopods and the trams in lor. Having the Bonus energy drain really makes him a god mid tank but a bad heal becaus say Nekros Mendquinox and let's not forget the holy Trinity don't have that additionAL energy drain making them better for team heals. Or at the very least heavily reduce it. Trinity instant heals and gives damage mitigation for gods sake.

This^^

 

They should just remove the "per allied healed" and make it a flat amount. 

[robbybe01234]

9 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

I mentioned in another thread that Oberon, from everything I've seen, has now become overly complicated with all of cross-buffs, and now suffers from a less effective kit overall. 

Which is sad, he simply doesn't do anything well enough even with  the rework to be really useful, especially when you understand that there are other frames in this game that are far more effective. 

 

Yeah, you also mentioned you haven't tried his rework yet.  I read that thread.  Give it a shot, with 4 people playing together doing their things and benefiting from his support, good times are had.

Solo though....could be better.

HG just needs to do more for him specifically.  He should own people trespassing on his ground. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by robbybe01234

[Leonix13]

2 minutes ago, robbybe01234 said:

Yeah, you also mentioned you haven't tried his rework yet.  I read that thread.  Give it a shot, with 4 people playing together doing their things and benefiting from his support, good times are had.

Solo though....could be better.

HG just needs to do more for him specifically.  

Problem is because of how bloated a mess his kit is you need to do a lot just to make him "good".

His heal is "really good" as long as you can keep your energy up, and the armour buff on everyone, and have a syndicate mod... For a frame that wants every mod, thats a lot to ask to make one power good enough.

[n_0x]

8 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:

Nidus's tanky capabilities only really extend to himself. Ravenous isn't strong enough to significantly improve the livelihood of other teammates on its own. Larva is good for interrupting enemies, but only a few of them and for only a short time.

Oberon's tanky capabilities EXTEND TO HIS WHOLE TEAM. You can make EVERYONE near-Valkyr levels of tanky, more if your team actually knows how to dodge. And the nice thing is, he doesn't need to replace Nidus, or Trinity, or Valkyr. He works well alongside them. Because he is a SUPPORT first and foremost, and is only made even better with the presence of other supports. Parasitic Link will make Renewal and Iron Renewal even stronger, and Ravenous will totally stack with Renewal. Blessing's damage reduction will work ON TOP of the armour buff and healing, and furthermore Renewal's armour buff and healing will reduce the number of times where Trinity's burst healing is actually needed, and Energy Vampire will give Oberon a lot more leeway for spamming his abilities, reducing the battlefield to chaos. Between Blessing and Oberon, deaths should be so rare that using Reckoning will give enough of an opening to quickly revive a fallen teammate.

You literally picked three frames that would never need him. Bigger point you already have Trinity and Valkyr, what's Oberon's job gonna be then? See what an actual healer support and damage dealer/tank can do? His tanky capabilities extend to the whole team? So does Trinity with Link and guess what it's with only with one button. And second point you can never go to Valkyr's level of tankiness because with one mod she rock over 1k armor and Oberon can only hit her base armor value. And wait let me guess the next point: but he offers CC in Smite and Reckoning. Really cause I'd just pick Vauban or Volt or Rhino or Frost or Limbo or Nyx or Ivara. If anything you proved my point, this squad without Oberon is fine they don't need him. He needs them and badly. Instead making him average across the board make him good at something.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has nearly caught up to I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has at least half as many pages as Limbo's Rework (though with Cataclysm bomb, that is to be expected), more than Octavia's official thread, and catching up quickly to Volt's official rework thread. Keep it up everyone. DE is sure to hear us now! 

[robbybe01234]

17 minutes ago, Phalian said:

I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has nearly caught up to I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has at least half as many pages as Limbo's Rework (though with Cataclysm bomb, that is to be expected), more than Octavia's official thread, and catching up quickly to Volt's official rework thread. Keep it up everyone. DE is sure to hear us now! 

haha, at page 54 probably not.  They might look but I expect no changes until a Oberon prime release.

26 minutes ago, Leonix13 said:

 

Yes his kit does many different things, I look at it like this, when paired with other people or things, potential increases. 

Reflecting on in, it really feels like he plays the role of a pet or follower from Diablo.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by robbybe01234

[Ardhanarishvara]

51 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said:

I mentioned in another thread that Oberon, from everything I've seen, has now become overly complicated with all of cross-buffs, and now suffers from a less effective kit overall. 

Which is sad, he simply doesn't do anything well enough even with  the rework to be really useful, especially when you understand that there are other frames in this game that are far more effective. 

I don't get why you could think that. His kit is almost entirely the same as it was before, except bigger and with added effects. I don't think it's so much that he suffers from a less effective kit, insomuch as he suffers from a less INTUITIVE kit.

That said, there are some things he's pretty good at. His presence means his entire team turns into tanks. His presence means the enemy is always in chaos. His presence means that a lot of things are made easier, even if he's not an instant win button.

36 minutes ago, n_0x said:

You literally picked three frames that would never need him. Bigger point you already have Trinity and Valkyr, what's Oberon's job gonna be then? See what an actual healer support and damage dealer/tank can do? His tanky capabilities extend to the whole team? So does Trinity with Link and guess what it's with only with one button. And second point you can never go to Valkyr's level of tankiness because with one mod she rock over 1k armor and Oberon can only hit her base armor value. And wait let me guess the next point: but he offers CC in Smite and Reckoning. Really cause I'd just pick Vauban or Volt or Rhino or Frost or Limbo or Nyx or Ivara. If anything you proved my point, this squad without Oberon is fine they don't need him. He needs them and badly. Instead making him average across the board make him good at something.

Trinity can't keep her eyes on everyone's health at all times. People are inevitably going to take damage and die, even with her around, because no self respecting player is going to spend every single second spamming Blessing. It is important to understand the difference in functions and expectations between burst healing and health regain. Trinity's Link does not magically make your teammates gain Valkyr levels of armour and three times Nidus levels of self-healing. Trinity's Blessing offers damage reduction to teammates, but how many Trinities do you know that actually build for Duration given how much that paces out the energy pulses from Energy Vampire? Still, even then, the important thing to note is that OBERON IS NOT THERE TO DO TRINITY'S JOB. They can WORK TOGETHER. Two trinities do not play well together, since one cannot cast Blessing while the damage reduction of another Trinity is in effect, thus leading to a situation where the damage reduction component is non-existent so they can both do burst heals and energy vampire. It's also worth noting that the number of times where burst healing is actually specifically required as opposed to health regain is actually quite low. A Nidus alone vastly increases team survivability, and Ravenous isn't anywhere near as strong as Renewal, and is furthermore locked to a single location. Oberon is that on steroids.

And, actually, you absolutely can reach Valkyr's level of tankiness, Hysteria aside. I've shown my evidence in earlier posts. Damage reduction after 600 sees extremely diminishing returns, to the point that even with R8 Steel Fiber and Armored Agility, reaching 1645 armour, she's only taking half as much damage as an Oberon with no armour mods, Intensify, Growing Power, and Energy Conversion, and the health regain closes the gap even further, going beyond if you start moving around and avoiding enemy fire. Your entire team can achieve that, while Valkyr can only do that solo.

Again though, the important detail here is that he does not need to REPLACE them. Nor do they replace HIM. They work well TOGETHER. Oberon increases Valkyr's armour even further, and on top of that gives her health regain. Valkyr does the same with him with Warcry. Oberon increases Trinity's own armour, increasing her survivability when Link fades, and reduces the number of times when she has to cast Blessing since health regain alone is a mechanic which makes teammates so much more likely to survive, especially with the massive armour boost, that she will be free to go for a duration build to focus on damage reduction rather than burst healing, focusing more on killing enemies she inflicts with Energy Vampire to keep the team stocked up.

Yes, any one individual thing that Oberon does, other 'frames can probably do better, built right. But no 'frame has the same range of capabilities and team survival and cohesion that Oberon offers. He synergizes well with other 'frames, without having to outright replace any of them. No other 'frame short of Nezha can make teammates nearly as tanky, and even THAT is extremely limited.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I had as similar concern regarding using new Renewal in Trials specifically 1st phase of LoR.

Just did not seem sustainable to heal entire Raid party and companions through constant toxin drain.

Can't test new Oberon on PS4, yet

[n_0x]

Yeah in there in itself is the issue could you pick Oberon? Yes. But should you? Realistically not really. Why pick someone average for the job versus someone who's going to be perfectly qualified. And, you can quote me on this forever, I love Oberon's kit (old and new). I remeber fondly (like an idiot) selling my starter Excalibur for Oberon. I remember not caring when everyone told me to not pick Oberon because he was inferior to everyone. But at certain point people realized Oberon's not gonna cut it anymore. Oberon can be the guy that stays the same forever and is ok at everything or give him a new kit. He seems to do well being a support why not re-do his kit around being a tanky support. Can other frames do better built right? No. Can other frames do better? Yes.

Oberon needs a real rework not a glorified tune up. I mean what happens Harrow releases and he takes even more away from Oberon. Combine his abilities don't force synergy play up the theme so much harder or get rid of one and focus on the other.

[Iccotak]

2 hours ago, robbybe01234 said:

haha, at page 54 probably not.  They might look but I expect no changes until a Oberon prime release.

Devstream 91, they said they would see how we did this weekend and our overall response to Oberon and take another look. They are actively working on him but they want more data from the playerbase.

[The_Grimmrock]

www.youtube.com/embed/Yvmy-ItZrOo

Day one Takeaways:

*this is also a TL:DW of the vid*

Passive: 

- Mostly Fine

**Smite:**

- Mostly Fine

**Hallowed Ground:**

- Range and Range Scaling with Reckoning
- Increased Proc Chance. 
- Increasing/refreshing Iron Renewal Buff/Duration while on hallowed ground

**Renewal :**
- Cost Per person healed reduced or bugfixed.
- Remove ENG cost while not healing

**Reckoning:**

- Increased Range and Range scaling matching Hallowed Ground
- Health or dropped reduced, but given on enemy hit or killed after reckoning applies debufs
- Armor reduction moved to irradiated targets, doubled on hallowed ground.

Overall:

- Oberon needs either more base energy or ways to gain energy placed into his kit. It would be preferred if the drain did not stop energy gain from outside sources. 

- Oberon may need a bit more in the armor/health department so that he can reliably use rage to keep buff up.

These were the most popular suggestions. Moving into day 2 we will grab any more suggestions, opinions on the state of things, and whether our proposed changes as a community are too much or too little.
_____________________________________________________

**please remember to avoid suggestions that would add additional things to his kit. the goal is discussion and and feedback towards smoothing out his kit, not adding to it.**

*I may rebuild the post in the morning as I realize Im dropping this pretty late for a lot of people.*

Edited April 30, 2017 by Grimmboski

[The_Grimmrock]

I realise now that I should have put the Day One post here as well, sometimes Im plain dumb.  here is the day one link: 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/688cgi/broberon_weekend_experience_day_1/

 

[Ardhanarishvara]

1 hour ago, n_0x said:

Yeah in there in itself is the issue could you pick Oberon? Yes. But should you? Realistically not really. Why pick someone average for the job versus someone who's going to be perfectly qualified. And, you can quote me on this forever, I love Oberon's kit (old and new). I remeber fondly (like an idiot) selling my starter Excalibur for Oberon. I remember not caring when everyone told me to not pick Oberon because he was inferior to everyone. But at certain point people realized Oberon's not gonna cut it anymore. Oberon can be the guy that stays the same forever and is ok at everything or give him a new kit. He seems to do well being a support why not re-do his kit around being a tanky support. Can other frames do better built right? No. Can other frames do better? Yes.

Oberon needs a real rework not a glorified tune up. I mean what happens Harrow releases and he takes even more away from Oberon. Combine his abilities don't force synergy play up the theme so much harder or get rid of one and focus on the other.

Then he wouldn't be Oberon anymore.

A glorified tune up is EXACTLY what he needs, because the building blocks of a good kit are there, it just needs to be tweaked a little more to be intuitive and worthwhile. On a conceptual level, yes, Oberon is a jack of all trades, master of none. On a practical level, he is a HoT support healer that can offer a major damage reduction buff to all teammates passively without having to constantly recast a skill or gimp one or more other skills just to achieve that.

Originally, Nidus held the role of a tank with healing support capabilities. However, while Nidus is better at CC and damage for sure and can offer considerable power strength, Oberon is far, FAR better at the healing support. He can offer some pretty potent damage reduction to teammates. There are a lot of 'frames with some pretty flimsy armour. 15. 65. 100. 125... Stuff like that. My currently unfinished build for Oberon offers 411 armour. Which, alone, would be 57% damage reduction. Oberon starts off with 150 armour, or 33% damage reduction. Once Iron Renewal is up, he goes up to 561 armour, or 65% damage reduction, effectively halving the damage he takes.

For anyone else, well, why don't you take a quick look at this chart I pulled up from the Wikia's Armor section?

Spoiler

As you can see, the Iron Renewal buff pulls more than two thirds of the 'frames well up into the second-best tier and a few into the top tier in terms of damage reduction. And this is on top of me offering an 84hp/s recovery rate. That is 840hp after 10 seconds. It's no blessing in terms of instantaneous damage recovery, but it's got a lot more leeway and freedom since:

1. You don't need to keep an active eye on your teammates' health at all times
2. You don't need to make a very specialized build in order to get a persistent damage reduction bonus, a build that is commonly discouraged on Trinity unless you're playing solo so you can get quick pulses out of Energy Vampire
3. In practice, people only need burst healing because they're taking too much damage to be able to survive. If they have persistent damage reduction and are the beneficiaries of a very generous health recovery rate AS they're taking damage, do you really think they're going to need that burst healing to the same degree as a Trinity can offer, when they're finally getting enough survival time to be able to think to jump away to relative safety before they die, thus having enough time to heal the rest of the way?
4. What can a Trinity offer aside from Blessing and Energy Vampire? She has 0 cc and 0 damage in her kit. Link exists purely for her own survival, and NOBODY uses Well of Life, ever. I'm not even sure most people understand what it even does.
5. It is my understanding that Trinity cannot cleanse status effects. She cannot prevent Toxin or Bleed, she cannot keep you from getting your shields and energy sapped by an Ancient Disruptor, she cannot prevent knockdown.

Oberon has his niche now, plus a little extra on the side. He is the layman's damage prevention and quick recovery 'frame. What remains now is to better fine-tune him for that niche by making his abilities and synergies more intuitive for use, which is what this thread exists to offer feedback for.

 

---

 

TO Digital Extremes:

Spoiler

 

The best suggestions I can make are on Page 50. The "quick" version of it is: improve energy pool to 200, make Smite eject 'shards' from an enemy--scaling with 15% health/shields, and multiplying against Grineer based on the initial target's armour rating--that can be slammed with Reckoning and exploding to deal damage scaled off that initial Smite target, while also yielding health/energy/"armor" orbs as an enemy would had they been killed (don't you still have those green stamina orbs from the dojo laying around somewhere? Could use those for the "armor" orbs, offering a flat armor bonus for a duration, that stack with more picked up.).

Furthermore, allow Iron Renewal as a basic self-buff effect for Oberon just for using Renewal, doubling on Hallowed Ground, and make its standard strength trigger for teammates when they are under the effects of both Hallowed Ground and Renewal, rather than the far clunkier implementation of having to be on Hallowed Ground AND THEN have Renewal Cast, with the effect refreshing indefinitely as long as they are under the effects of one or the other ability, and decaying once under the effect of neither.

Lastly, allow for Renewal's teammate energy consumption to be affected by efficiency/duration, as Oberon's own is - the ability is too greedy otherwise, having the capability to completely drain Oberon's energy reserves in very short order, with the effect only being further pronounced if Nekros summons Shadows of the Dead, those being capable of draining you pretty much instantly.

End result: Synergy is more easily achieved, with more noticeable effects. Less hassle, more enjoyable and rewarding, stronger presence and usefulness.

 

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by Ardhanarishvara
Formatting!

[Chimiasai]

My thought on Oberon (Poor english incoming):

 

Smite: Is quite good, You feel great to spam the 1.

 

Hallowed ground: Itself, the spell is fine. But inside the Oberon kit, you don't have a good feeling of spamming it. Maybe put an energy gain when enemies are killed by the dot?

 

Renewal: The heal is pretty good, but numerous things annoy me.

-Bind the range of Renewal with power range.

-Remove the initial Hot and the initial channeling cost.

-If someone inside the aoe of Renewal walk on Hallowed ground, the player gain Iron Renewal.

-Iron renewal drain 0.5 energy/sec and players affected by the status. If someone is outside the aoe, it will trigger the countdown before the status is consumed.

-Reduce the duration of Iron renewal to force people to stay with Oberon.

-Let Oberon regain his energy if Renewal don't drain it.

 

Reckoning: Clearly out the kit, doesn't seem to be reworked at all.

-Kept the actual stat.

-10% of the damage inflicted on armor are count into a buff "Guilty" which doesn't have any countdown.

-Every Hallowed ground present of the map will inflict (100 + (10% of the damage inflicted on armor with Reckoning))

-When Hallowed Ground is cast anew, Guilty is removed without any gain.

[Music4Therapy]

The energy gain mechanic should be "While Oberon is on Hallowed Ground, each projectile smite creates gives him X energy per hit"