Design Council Challenge Discussion and Feedback

[(XBOX)DeluxeKnight831]

50 minutes ago, Suicidemaniac said:

Mesa with corrosive modded onto my pistol (dunno if it still counts towards Peacemaker damage still), brought a friend with Nova and shredded everything. Juggernaut showed up, pinged it 9001 times for 3 damage each, then his back opened up and his hp bar dropped like a rock.

melee only .........

[Sziklamester]

I died in this mission with a nidus 3 formad and my stacks doesn't helped me a lot. Fun part I did more damage on the juggernaut with my lvl 12 oberon than my lvl 30 nidus. The smite at least dealt damage on him and the scaling was seeable but the nidus felt so pretty much low no matter that my stacks were max. On that team with a limbo, ice chroma and ember prime we tried this but lost before trinity prime and 1 ash and 1 limbo was my helper and we managed to take his half hp but then revives lost.

I voted for a normal challange and normal options and in my vote the enemy level was below 100 and rifle only with exilus adapter reward but not really was any chance to that will happen because the majority picked the worst options of them. Yep the council have hardcores so this happend. I cannot say enough sorry for those whom wanted to finish the event and not used cheesy tactics but in the end the cheesers won others got dissapointed.
 

I won't go event like this anymore only if the challange reasonable and the enemies are not broken. The trash mobs were easy in this event only the boss was unkillable.

Once again I tried with my Ice Chroma and with a Trin EV and with 2 inaros but that match also was bad and in the final moment the boss bugged out of the map but was still in game so the match went into unfinishable. I don't wish so terrible experiences like this one was and hopefully you guys will forget it was something like this.

Also the game is should be equally fun to each person in the game so De should to do something to deliver this.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Sziklamester

[necrobatress]

36 minutes ago, uAir said:

Excalibur's Exalted Blade waves can go through walls. Kite around the Juggernaut so he can't hit you with this spines, send the waves through the structures and floors at him until he dies. I've done this about 4 times now helping to carry people through the mission.

excalibul's exalted blade doesnt do damage to it unless its has its belly open

[uAir]

1 minute ago, necrobatress said:

excalibul's exalted blade doesnt do damage to it unless its has its belly open

Same with almost everything else. That's why you spam the attacks until it does open up. Then you'll drop 5k-8k damage per hit to it for that duration. Some other times I'll see ticks for around 300 damage. But yes, all other times, 0 damage.

[MudShadow]

This mission is basically DE saying "MEsa is on sale. Go and buy her now." 

Edited April 29, 2017 by MudShadow

[necrobatress]

37 minutes ago, MudShadow said:

This mission is basically DE saying "MEsa is on sale. Go and buy her now." 

but mesa is still bad at this alert 1 damage for a general mesa is bad

[MudShadow]

5 minutes ago, necrobatress said:

but mesa is still bad at this alert 1 damage for a general mesa is bad

No mesa destroys the juggernaut in this alert. Just build for duration and power strength. And take the high ground and use peacemakers. It does 2 damage but then when the jaggurnaut revels its weak spot then the peacemakers will consistently do good damage.

She pretty much trivializes the mission. We even had a r0 ember in the pug doing nothing except dying all the time.

Edited April 29, 2017 by MudShadow

[Xzorn]

Solo'd this. No Invis, No Immortal, No Cheese.

Just straight up Brawler.

First try.

 

Spoiler

Respect Da Rhino.

There are certainly some cheesey scaling problem with this game. As an endurance runner I run into many of them. This wasn't bad though.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Xzorn

[necrobatress]

34 minutes ago, MudShadow said:

No mesa destroys the juggernaut in this alert. Just build for duration and power strength. And take the high ground and use peacemakers. It does 2 damage but then when the jaggurnaut revels its weak spot then peacemakers will consistently do good damage.

it rarely shows its weak spot and your userally dead when it does, i don't treat any frame that relies on the weakspot as good, its only good if u can kill it reagardless of weakspot

making this alert basically impossible

[kattskinner]

Will need a Trinity or a few energy pads but a high power strength Oberon will kill it with smite no problem.

This is pretty much DE saying "try that Oberon rework out".

Edited April 29, 2017 by kattskinner

[(PSN)Zelisius]

Sadly he hasn't been tweaked on consoles yet

[Gorila_Azul]

3 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

I took them in but was forced full melee, had no choice but to use my melee.

DE has changed there no weapons allowed before entering a mission you don't have to un-equip your weapons, the game does it for you.

Oh, that's how it goes? Ok. I thought it would automatically unequip them. Haven't got to play in a while.

[CarrotSalad]

I think it would've been more fun had the enemies just been lower level around 20(+ -) *30 at most... Being repeatedly one shot, by large unavoidable aoe's didnt go down well me or the group i was with.

I certainly would'nt play warframe if every desirable reward progress step through the game was tied to such difficulty.

[moon.boots]

Not listing the level average or weapon restrictions like most alerts/sorties did feel a little unfair. So many MR4 players with Ember and Pistol Amp...

The only real problem I have with the battle, though, is with how poorly the Juggernaut's attacks are telegraphed. The fight highlights just how much the hitboxes don't match the animations; spike projectiles would fly by, visibly several meters away from me, and I'd be one-shot right through Warding Halo. On one memorable occasion he one-shot two people at the same time who were standing on opposite sides of him. This isn't just a ping issue if it's affecting multiple players. And his spines having punch-through means there's little to no point in trying tactical positioning or using cover. I honestly wouldn't even mind being one-shot as long as I got one-shot while he was actually aiming at me.

I did have fun with the rest of it (Firewalker Nezha with Condition Overload Lesion) but having to resort to "go park in a corner and void beam it while it runs endlessly into a wall" tactics sucked some enjoyment of the challenge out of it. Bad AI/pathing/telegraphing encourages you to resort to cheese.

This tile also showcased how poorly melee and stairs intersect. So often I'd attack and end up standing on something's head...

[moon.boots]

6 hours ago, rand0mname said:

Wait, even if I am behind it while he it busy with another player? Were it not a front attack like Nidus stomp? 

Explosions were blue, not the toxin/gas AEO he does. And all over the map. Not a Frost or Chroma ability. Looked a lot like Elytrons Thumper explosions. Was too busy trying to lure it from the pod and stay alive to screenshoot it :(

The blue flashes are lightning strikes. Happens randomly on that map.

[VideoJack]

I liked it, I just wish we could run it again (without the reward, of course) so I could figure out strats with other frames.

I was a Valkyr for the mission, because I expected level 100+ enemies.

[(PSN)JuvePT]

Beated the Jug with a Slow Nova, corrosive Tipedo with Blood Rush + Body Count and shadowstep. Oh and there was a Rhino spamming Roar... Most kills by far and 48% damage dealt.

Only problem was dying alot because... Nova.

[Adrastaea]

I have nothing substantial to add other than "what the F*** was the Design Council smoking"

(I tried all kinds of different strategies with 3 different squads. I really have no idea how some people are managing to beat this.)

EDIT:

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Solo'd this. No Invis, No Immortal, No Cheese.

Just straight up Brawler.

First try.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Respect Da Rhino.

There are certainly some cheesey scaling problem with this game. As an endurance runner I run into many of them. This wasn't bad though.

It one-shots Iron Skin. How? And how long did this take you? Even if you somehow dodge its wall-hack shots constantly, you barely do any damage at all no matter what weapon and how you mod it.

Edited April 29, 2017 by DazedOne

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

 Hmmmm....22 pages of either crymoan, salt, enjoyment, or too easy....

It seems that most people on here did not play video games when you went to a place called an "Arcade" and put QUARTERS into games to then attempt to play for as long as possible. The days when you just had what the game creator gave you and the missions were hard as all get out to do unless you saw the patterns. This mission was the type of gaming most who do Clem missions should have even expected the big guy to pop up on.

Myself, i detest DEF with a passion....but i gave this a go as it was done by the DCites on all 3 platforms. And i must say it was fun and enjoyable. I went in with Nekros and chose to be Despoiling Version. I took in the Zenistar and used Blast damage to send Infested to the ground or flying through the air like pop corn. I didn't realize that our Companions could go in as well so Carrier came along trying to Ammo Case everything. LoL!

Ran a pub with a Nova, Inaros, and another frame i barely saw. We were doing well as most have said for the first 9 waves. I Zenistar disco it near the pod to be on the safe side while Nova did her thing. I maxed my hit multiplier a few times but with the pod moving back and forth, it got reset here and there. Then the Juggy popped up. 

We were doing good againt him as i had Shadows to call out, Zenistar took care of his Infested Spawns, and the others were hammering him. Then he hit us all with his One-hitter killer move. Placing all but 1 person into Undying mode- the other person just died! Revived and realized that i had no more Shadows now. Changed up to using Soul Punch....which did a few thousands in damage.....or was it hundreds?

Now, you gotta understand that my account has done none of SECOND DREAM.....so no access to any Focus or Schools. Just pure Warframing. We got knocked down again by 1-HK and this time, i saw an Invisible Inaros reviving me....but he went down when another 1-HK hit him and my Carrier. 

We revived again and i attempted to get behind the Juggy and slash away. Got my combo meter to 2.0X when Nova did her thing and he just exploded somehow. This was after the 4 of us had whittled him down to 1/8 of his life with armor on. We got a Bile Sac....and the mission ended with a success. 

This was a fun good run that did not rely on cheese to win it...but by us going at it and changing up tactics when needed. It reminded me of all those games i had played where the last boss pops up and kicks us around for a few lives/quarters. And that is a challenge to overcome. Would the outcome have been different if i chose Rhino or Nidus or any of the others I had? Maybe...but i would just attempted again. 

As for the DC choices....I enjoyed the Infested Melee Only level 100+. I died much less than the Grinny Ignis shots one as well as only got hit by 1 Toxic Spew that instaKOed me and the Nova. 

Thanks DC for the votes and DE for the mission. 

[nameomnz]

COME ON AND SPAM AND WELCOME TO THE JAM!

ahem..

I did it with Oberon phoenix renewal build but spamming the **** out of smite.

1 cast = 5% of jug's health. So took me and my mates about 5minute to take are of it. Beasue I discovered that when your renewal is active you don't gain energy from energy pad.

I really enjoy the challenge like this if It has every week It would be awsome +replayable

[Xzorn]

16 minutes ago, DazedOne said:

I have nothing substantial to add other than "what the F*** was the Design Council smoking"

(I tried all kinds of different strategies with 3 different squads. I really have no idea how some people are managing to beat this.)

EDIT:

It one-shots Iron Skin. How? And how long did this take you? Even if you somehow dodge its wall-hack shots constantly, you barely do any damage at all no matter what weapon and how you mod it.

 

It will one-shot Iron Skin about 50% of the time. Depends how many of the projectiles hit you and if you can get any stacks from the enemies he spawns.

Jugg is slow to turn so you can just skate circles around him swinging melee until he either dashes or shows his belly.

The tricky part is when he puts himself in a corner. You can either chance skating around him or run around till he comes out.

The whole mission took like 15-20 minutes.

I should note I don't use melee auto-target.  Normally it's just annoying to me but in this case it might have gotten me killed.

[UltraLYT]

I went solo for the Design Council Challenge with Limbo, I did not know it was melee only and there would be a Juggernaut, so I brought my Hirudo to forma it.  At the end of the last wave, the Juggernaut just charged into my Cataclysm freely, even with Stasis on.  The Stasis has no effect on Juggernaut at all.  The Juggernaut kept attacking me as if it was on the material plane in Cataclysm with Stasis, my Limbo cannot withstand such a high level Juggernaut with no effective abilities and finally died.

My question: Is this normal for Juggernaut being not affected by Cataclysm with Stasis?

[UltraLYT]

2 hours ago, necrobatress said:

its should also be noted that the juggernaut is completely immune to all melee damage unless you are attacking its belly

 

this basically means u cant win, the chance of getting it to show its belly + have it face u + not already be dead is so low you might aswell say its impossible

 

only way to kill it is to take a frame with a ranged ability such as ivara and her Artemis bow, or mesa or Titania 

 

having actually tested this ivara is your best choose as each arrow can do about 60+ damage, mesa tends to do 1 damage making her the worst

I think what you said is true.  I went solo the second time with Ash (Limbo the first time, see above post), thinking Seeking Shuriken should strip all its armor, but no, I threw tons of Seeking Shuriken to it, no effect at all.

So enough of solo, I then brought my Valkyr Prime and just joined a random group with a MR20+ Chroma and two others <MR10 (one got just 1 kill at the end, so you see the picture), we managed to kill it using just brute force, I have to give credits to her Hysteria and my Valkyr Primed has not even been forma'd.

[(XBOX)DShinShoryuken]

1 hour ago, moon.boots said:

Not listing the level average or weapon restrictions like most alerts/sorties did feel a little unfair. So many MR4 players with Ember and Pistol Amp...

 

This....and many other posts....have left me in a laughing state while i read through these pages.

Actually, yes....attacks on the body of the JUGGY will damage it. Since it has ARMOR on it, it might be a lot less but if those tiny white numbers pop off it...you are hurting it. Most people forget that our melee weapons have a hurt multiplier....but you gotta have hits to get it going. Standing behind the beast and hitting it will get your multiplier to increase and you will start seeing Yellow numbers moreso.

To those that used LIMBO and got trashed in the VOID.....that hurts.I wonder if that is how all JUGGYs act or just this one in the Alert.

 

[ShakeyMac]

1. It's not made clear anywhere save the node itself that this mission is "melee-only."  Thus, I brought Titania to it because, well, I felt like it.  Turns out she's not a great melee frame vs. level 100+ infested, especially when you have her built around her 4.  Making it clear that it's melee-only via the Alert tab in the Star Chart in addition to the mission node itself would have been better.

2. The juggernaut at the end was not a welcome sight, simply because it was completely unexpected.  Unlike many other bosses, juggs have to be planned for due to how stupidly hard they are to kill without specific setups.  This is further complicated by the map the mission was on and the tendency of the jugg to get stuck under something, yet still be able to one-shot you with spine spam or floor-lava spam.  Having the jugg spawn on the objective is a bad idea as well.

3.  The jugg itself isn't a bad idea, but the "lol SURPRISE *@##&#036;ES" of it was.  Some sort of letter from the Lotus would have been a great setup for this.  Supposedly this is a big deal; it's the first Design Council Challenge.  Maybe something from the Lotus along the lines of "Hey Tenno, we've identified strange infested energy signatures at this node.  I don't know what it means but there are unusually powerful bio-signatures at this node.  Be prepared for the worst."  You don't have to go out and say "hay gaiz dere iz juggernots LOL" but a little something to let us know this mission will have some twists would have gone a long way.

 

tl;dr - make it clearer this is melee only, deal with how jugg AI behaves so that it can't shoot through walls or spawn in stupid areas, and give us some kind of lore-based heads-up that this isn't just another infested defense.