Quick Thinking stealth nerfed?

[PrincessMittens]

So ever since Update 21 dropped, I had heard whispers that Quick Thinking got nerfed. At first I didn't believe it because the patch notes said nothing about it, but upon playing some missions myself I uncovered the sad truth.

Not only have I discovered that you can't roll out of the stagger now, but the stagger is way more violent. It's as if you're getting hit by a bombard rocket every single time you have to use Quick Thinking, and more often than not it gets you killed now.

I'm hoping I'm not the only one who discovered this, and am reaching out to hopefully get DE's attention to it. Thank you for your time. Let's get this reverted ASAP! 

[AgentEntropy]

1 minute ago, -Mittens- said:

I'm hoping I'm not the only one who discovered this

You aren't! I've noticed this on my own time, even before you brought it fully to my attention. I've taken Quick Thinking off my builds for now - not worth using a survivability mod if it's more likely to get me killed than it is to save me.

[Hecro]

It does never trigger any stagger effect for me, though...

[Tizodd]

I assumed people were simply doing something wrong, but after testing it myself just now in the Simulacrum I can confirm that you guys are right.  You can no longer roll out of the stagger.  I really hope they revert this change.  It essentially defeats the purpose when your survivability mod leaves you stun-locked.

[Awazx]

16 minutes ago, AgentEntropy said:

(...) not worth using a survivability mod if it's more likely to get me killed than it is to save me.

+1

[shut]

Wait, what? Could you ever roll out of a stagger? Not being able to do that seems like pretty standard behaviour for me.

I'll have to test it in a bit.

 

EDIT: I'm in the simulacrum right now. As expected, you cannot roll out of a QT stagger... but yeah, I don't know about the opposite ever being the case.

But, regarding the stagger animation itself... something is DEFINITELY different.

QT will often trigger "heavy" staggers now (i.e. if you get hit from the front, your character slowly hobbles backwards with his back hunched up like someone just kicked him in the stomach). This is as opposed to the usual "light" staggers (i.e. if you get hit from the front, your character briefly staggers backward like someone punched his shoulder-- this is the stagger that Rollers cause, and is much quicker than a heavy stagger). Light staggers still happen from QT, although heavy staggers seem dangerously more common.

Edited July 16, 2017 by SortaRandom

[PurpleNyxPrime]

I've noticed this issue as well and it's really hit some of my favourite frames hard like ember and nova. I do hope this change gets reverted because i would like to go back to having a ton of fun with these frames instead of getting frustrated.

[-N7-Leonhart]

33 minutes ago, -Mittens- said:

So ever since Update 21 dropped, I had heard whispers that Quick Thinking got nerfed. At first I didn't believe it because the patch notes said nothing about it, but upon playing some missions myself I uncovered the sad truth.

Not only have I discovered that you can't roll out of the stagger now, but the stagger is way more violent. It's as if you're getting hit by a bombard rocket every single time you have to use Quick Thinking, and more often than not it gets you killed now.

I'm hoping I'm not the only one who discovered this, and am reaching out to hopefully get DE's attention to it. Thank you for your time. Let's get this reverted ASAP! 

Firstly, they have no reason to actually nerf Quick Thinking and secondly, they themselves said that any any 'stealth nerfs' should be considered bugs.

So, this is either a bug, or a consequence of a change in another area, not a stealth nerf.

[AgentEntropy]

12 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Wait, what? Could you ever roll out of a stagger? Not being able to do that seems like pretty standard behaviour for me.

Previously, in order to prevent you from being permanently staggerlocked, after the first stagger from Quick Thinking you could use the crowd-control resistant function of rolls. This function is now either bugged or nerfed, and you're simply staggerlocked until you run out of energy and die, or until an ally prevents the enemies from shooting you (which obviously cannot happen in solo, where Quick Thinking is most needed).

[shut]

11 minutes ago, AgentEntropy said:

Previously, in order to prevent you from being permanently staggerlocked, after the first stagger from Quick Thinking you could use the crowd-control resistant function of rolls. This function is now either bugged or nerfed, and you're simply staggerlocked until you run out of energy and die, or until an ally prevents the enemies from shooting you (which obviously cannot happen in solo, where Quick Thinking is most needed).

Gotcha, thanks!

Is this maybe due to the new animation taking so long that the CC invulnerability runs out by the time it finishes?

[Airwolfen]

Yeah its extremely harsh now and it was never noted anywhere.

[YUNoJump]

I suppose Quick Thinking kinda needs a nerf when you look at it in a vacuum, 600 energy will give you 1440 EHP before armour, way more than any actual EHP increase mod will supply. On top of that, most high-energy frames have lots of CC or a damage reduction/avoidance ability. HP-Tank frames like Inaros, Rhino and Wukong will actually have less EHP than a primed, high-energy frame like Volt or Saryn before abilities. 

However, the problem with Warframe is that you can't play roles like Tank or Support, because enemies come from all directions and aggro draw is nonexistent. I'd love to protect my team as a tanky frame by pulling in all damage, but all I can do as a tank frame is run around shooting stuff and not dying. That means the only option for staying alive as a non-tank is a) Quick Thinking (which becomes a bit of a band-aid mod in this scenario when you think about it) and b) CC-overloading, which is also a big problem with the game. 

Basically, it should be possible to nerf Quick Thinking, but without a way to actually play a class that doesn't draw as much damage, we need it around so that non-tanks don't die instantly. The game needs some sort of reliable aggro-draw in order to create the Tank-DPS-CC-Support squad meta that works really well in any other game, and move away from "hose down the map with layers upon layers of CC until enemies can't even move, and we can't even see through all the effects."

[Vanrythzx]

i noticed that too, it is @(*()$ horrible, intended or bug? 

[Xzorn]

I noticed Grineer Rollers act similarly. You were previously able to roll past them without being staggered.

This is no longer the case. Even if you're mid roll you will be instantly stopped and brought to stagger animation.

 

Sadly this would be the 3rd or 4th nerf to Dodge Roll. Not specifically QT.

1st was Lunaro Update. You now dodge the direction your character is facing instead of the direction you're facing, lowering precision of rolls.

2nd was shortly after. They gave dodge rolls a cooldown period where you cannot shoot coming directly out of a roll for about 0.5 - 1 s.

3rd was Dodge rolls bounce the player off AoE effects instead of granting immunity. Most noticeably on Caustic/Argon Eximus Fire AoE.

4th Dodge rolls no longer counter or combat stagger effects.

I believe all but the first change was undocumented.

[Tuoweit]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

3rd was Dodge rolls bounce the player off AoE effects instead of granting immunity. Most noticeably on Caustic/Argon Eximus Fire AoE

This sounds like the same behaviour as resisting a knockdown by any means (e.g. with Fortitude), your character does brief block animation and get knocked back a short distance instead.