Is Lenz too powerful for bow and explosive weapon (unbalance)

[Gamma745]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Also, can we just take a moment and appriciate how badas it looks tho?

The image from Update notes looks nice, but I'll withhold any comment until I see it in-game.

[Gravitus123]

It hasnt even been out for a day stop asking for nerfs everytime something decent comes out jesus

[korndolorous]

27 minutes ago, cookieknife said:

 

Also never mention rivens when talking about balancing weapons. DE has stated they will not consider rivens when buffing weapons (and they proved that by the massive series of buffs they gave out ) and like. Good , if you have a riven with damage multi shot and crit chance: good for you 

 

sorry about that, i forgot that i should not mention about riven mod

 

[korndolorous]

2 minutes ago, Gravitus123 said:

It hasnt even been out for a day stop asking for nerfs everytime something decent comes out jesus

actually i dont want to nerf it ,but i want other bow and launcher buff

[Shinobu_Scorpion]

12 minutes ago, korndolorous said:

actually i dont want to nerf it ,but i want other bow and launcher buff

Uh well...

1 hour ago, korndolorous said:

-snip-

i suggest to nerf this weapon or buff other bow and explosive weapon

You did actually say that's what you wanted. It's to be expected people will say something about it. 

[Serafinia]

My clan still not researched it so I cannot say if this weapon is good or not but ask for nerf after a day is not a thing. I am agree with that other bows needs buffs but this one if the infos correct have enough drawback and self damage which make it balanced. The other old bows need more damage and a bit tweaking other abilities but other hand thes are fine.

[korndolorous]

15 minutes ago, Shinobu_Scorpion said:

Uh well...

You did actually say that's what you wanted. It's to be expected people will say something about it. 

I suggest to balance it and there is 2 way 1st buff bow,launcher (i prefer this way),2nd nerft it (but i dont want it )

Edited August 3, 2017 by korndolorous

[(PSN)SilverwindNarga]

The one thing I don't get is why people ask for nerfs in a pve dominate game? It's pve so why try to nerf?

[korndolorous]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)darkjohn333 said:

The one thing I don't get is why people ask for nerfs in a pve dominate game? It's pve so why try to nerf?

it's not fun if there is no challenge in the game ,imagine that you can kill everything in 1 shot. it will be fun at first ,but later it will be boring

Edited August 3, 2017 by korndolorous

[Serafinia]

3 minutes ago, korndolorous said:

it not fun if there is no challenge in the game ,imagine that you can kill everything in 1 shot. it will be fun at first ,but later it will be boring

I am agree partly with this but this game would be boring more because of grinding. The game itself have no direction only just kill and farm and these two what the game only offer. Harder enemies can be implemented, better ai also and maps with hazard can be implemented aswell. On high levels both the player and npc can kill each other with one shot so it is pretty fair it depends on who shot first.

I am agree with the too easy and too hard is always a bad end but the game itself hard to be balanced and often the devs cannot find the way instead they using band aids to solve temporary some problems rather than fixing them. Once a year a grand visit would be nice for frames and weapons which out of the ideal and needs tweaks. 

[Gamma745]

3 minutes ago, korndolorous said:

it not fun if there is no challenge in the game ,imagine that you can kill everything in 1 shot. it will be fun at first ,but later it will be boring

Yes, but the Lenz already has a massive draw-back: Self damage and very low ammo pool. First you need to be careful on using it or you blow yourself up. And even then it could run out of ammo quickly, forcing you to use another weapon.

[Mintaro]

Dude you can't just ask for a weapon that clans haven't even finished research for a nerf just so the weapons you like be better. this makes you look contradictive and (no offense) whiney. 

Not cool.

[DreamsmithJane]

Okay, let's reel it in a bit, here. Before you go all "OMG damage" on this thing, you need to consider the limitations:

• Only 6 reserve ammo, and consumes an entire ammo pickup per shot. You will run out, if you are not very careful how you use it.
• Charge time and delayed blast, large AoE, and self damage with guaranteed cold status. This requires more forethought regarding where you shoot and how you move than even other explosive weapons.
• Very low status chance (lower than any other bow or explosive weapon), and an innate damage type with a penalty against ferrite armor. You need some other means to remove defenses, because this weapon will not get through them. You might be able to argue brute forcing shields, but Bursas and Grineer heavies will resist a lot of your damage at high levels, and you can only really build against one armor type.

So, honestly, you want it balanced versus other weapons in its categories? Already done. Of course, it just came out, so I'm not saying it can't possibly need tweaking, but it already has some glaring weaknesses to go with its strengths. Clans have another couple of days to finish research, so it's only in the hands of people who bought it with plat so far. Give the player base a chance to shake things down before you cry nerf.

[korndolorous]

2 minutes ago, DreamsmithJane said:

Okay, let's reel it in a bit, here. Before you go all "OMG damage" on this thing, you need to consider the limitations:

• Only 6 reserve ammo, and consumes an entire ammo pickup per shot. You will run out, if you are not very careful how you use it.
• Charge time and delayed blast, large AoE, and self damage with guaranteed cold status. This requires more forethought regarding where you shoot and how you move than even other explosive weapons.
• Very low status chance (lower than any other bow or explosive weapon), and an innate damage type with a penalty against ferrite armor. You need some other means to remove defenses, because this weapon will not get through them. You might be able to argue brute forcing shields, but Bursas and Grineer heavies will resist a lot of your damage at high levels, and you can only really build against one armor type.

So, honestly, you want it balanced versus other weapons in its categories? Already done. Of course, it just came out, so I'm not saying it can't possibly need tweaking, but it already has some glaring weaknesses to go with its strengths. Clans have another couple of days to finish research, so it's only in the hands of people who bought it with plat so far. Give the player base a chance to shake things down before you cry nerf.

the best answer so far.

[Reifnir]

26 minutes ago, korndolorous said:

it's not fun if there is no challenge in the game ,imagine that you can kill everything in 1 shot. it will be fun at first ,but later it will be boring

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "challenge" is a concept largely alien to Warframe.

Once you obtain the right tools (read: mods, frames and weapons) any semblance of "challenge" can only be created via artificial "crutches" like weapon restrictions, grind walls and the almighty RNG. Everything falls either in the "trivial" or "impossible unless you cheese it" category with no in-betweens. 

Additionally, we have an even bigger problem of geared and leveled players doing entry-level content because they lack alternatives - thus forcing another wave of newbies to flood the forums with "Nerf Ember" or "Nerf <whatever>" topics because someone with a maxed multi-forma loadout just paid a visit to a Lith fissure run and reduced every enemy in existence into subatomic particles by sneezing. 

So no, having a Rambo-style bow that blows things up at will is not a problem at all. Because once you start going in that direction you'll eventually arrive at "nerf Braton MK-1 because it one-shots level 5 enemies". 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Reifnir

[(PSN)Silverback73]

2 hours ago, cookieknife said:

Instead of nerfing the lenz

can we PLEASE buff explosive weapons?

all of them but scourge , lenz and tonkor suck

with javlok only being  barable but doesn't have multi procs per explosive while scourge does .-.

Kulstar is decent.  Btw, what is a "Lenz"?  I was expecting Focus school weapon augment discussion.

Whelp, off to see the original cephalon, Progenitor Cephalon Google...

[korndolorous]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Kulstar is decent.  Btw, what is a "Lenz"?  I was expecting Focus school weapon augment discussion.

Whelp, off to see the original cephalon, Progenitor Cephalon Google...

New corpus bow ,or I shoud say it's tonkor on bow

[aligatorno]

Yeah, no. Dread still laughs in its face when ti comes to damage. It has so many drawbacks that you are better off using something else if you really want to be effective in killing. By the time this bow fires and the arrow explodes, Rakta Cernos already fires multiple times and kills the same number of enemies. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by aligatorno

[Fallen_Echo]

I have not tried the weapon yet but from what i seen it basically the pre-buff opticor.

High damage, unsuitable for high levels.

[Tsukinoki]

Just adding to the voices that say no to nerfing the Lenz.

It has a few more draw-backs that no one else has mentioned yet:
-It can only fire when fully charged
-It can't hold the charge forever and after a few seconds you'll lose the charge and have to do it all over again.

This severely hampers it as you can't just hold a charge until you see a group of enemies and have to be much more reactionary to how you use it.

That combined with its low ammo pool and how it uses 1 entire ammo pickup per charge can limit it quite heavily.
It doesn't need a nerf at all.

[DatDarkOne]

5 hours ago, korndolorous said:

even every bow and explosive weapon cant do damage as much as lenz does.
 

i think it's unfair for old weapon 

tonkor got nerf i thought DE dont want us to use explosive crit weapon ,then Lenz pop-up with more crit chance, more damage,safer (you can point any where you want) even old tonkor cant beat it.

i suggest to nerf this weapon or buff other bow and explosive weapon

You obviously haven't tried it for very long or just don't have enough experience with other Bows.  Most of the issues with the Lenz have been stated in the quotes below.  So I will go into direct comparisons with other bows that I did yesterday using level 135 Bombard as the test. 

Lenz vs 135 Bombard did almost no damage at all to them.  Even the Blast using corrosive still suffered due to no status. This was even taking into account the Prowl damage bonus on Headshots. 

Daikyu vs 135 Bombard would one shot or two shot the bombard even using Gas

Rakta Cernos vs 135 Bombard didn't do as well as the Daikyu but it was giving good Damage. 

Dread vs 135 Bombard preformed as well as you'd expect.  Doing about the same as my Daikyu if not better due to high crits and slash.

What the Lenz does do fairly well is take out 135 Corpus.  I didn't test against higher level Infested. 

I'm still going to forma it as much as I did my Daikyu just because I can.  :D

5 hours ago, AtoKitsune said:

The weapon is not versatile, as it does not have the status chance to destroy armor. Yes, it hits very heavily, it's extremely high damage. But, you'll find that certain factions resist it very severely. Once you begin fighting Grineer or Bursas at level 70+, it will begin to suffer without a frame synergy that can either amplify that damage or remove armor. Honestly, it's not overpowered. The Dread can one-shot level 145 Corrupted Heavy Gunners.

Edit: I do love this weapon though, it's very nice.

 

4 hours ago, K0bra said:

This weapon is far from overpowered because of its low status chance and high lvl armor.

Period.

PS : Found this review (1 sec google)and there you can see how bad it performs against a high lvl enemy with armor

When you strip armor quite every weapon in the game is powerful.

 

Edited August 3, 2017 by DatDarkOne

[(XBOX)Umbra Howl]

5 hours ago, cookieknife said:

Instead of nerfing the lenz

can we PLEASE buff explosive weapons?

all of them but scourge , lenz and tonkor suck

with javlok only being  barable but doesn't have multi procs per explosive while scourge does .-.

Agree

[(PSN)Jennison99]

it has like 7 max ammo. its not very good for high level

[Troll_Logic]

I have no idea.  DE put yet another item behind the dojo paywall so more people would buy it rather than wait the 3 1/2 days. 

[aligatorno]

6 minutes ago, Troll_Logic said:

I have no idea.  DE put yet another item behind the dojo paywall so more people would buy it rather than wait the 3 1/2 days. 

That's more of a problem for the players that have to have everything given to them in an instant for free if possible rather than the game. It's a F2P game, you signed up for timegames the moment you started playing.