Update to my Ember Nerf post

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

Alright so I main Warframe on Xbone and just started on Ps4 which is fun to earn the stuff back whenever I am bored on playstation. Anyway everytime I jump into an exterminate 99% of the time its an ember burning everything before any other player and having the firequake augment mod equipped to knock and burn the heavier units. Its just press Y, Triangle, or 4 to win basically and its frustrating like mirage with simulor or zephyr with tonkor and I am glad that the frequency of those pairs has dropped significantly. Ember and Ignis need to be added to that list as its not fun following an ember even if its fast. Its not fun being a ninja with dead enemies before you can even fire your weapon or melee an enemy. I know I will get flak for this as in destiny whenever something needed a fix ie special ammo everyone was hurt which I can relate too but this is entirely different in warframe we are powerful but not at the expense of others aka limbo rework

 

Edit 1: whew the answers for ember are definitely in favor for not touching her in anyway or form. So I guess we have to wait for DE to change her themselves as it will happen. Like the tonkor, simulor and telos boltace nerf and the change to self damage with the tether grenades mod along countless others. Have a nice day tenno.

Edited July 27, 2017 by (XB1)D3L7A Z7R1K3
Expanded on my post

[JudgeXion]

What if they just made you immobile when using world of fire like how Banshee can't move when using sound quake. 

[(PSN)Elvenbane]

5 minutes ago, JudgeXion said:

What if they just made you immobile when using world of fire like how Banshee can't move when using sound quake. 

Please no. Sound Quake needs to be changed, it's not fun and people that use it are boring. Ember with firequake is a godsend on the defector walking simulator mission, least painful way to solo it I've found.

[tarfeef101]

No. Ember has been like this for years, and for a reason. She doesn't scale well into high level content. If you go to lvl 70+, you'd have to spam accelerant and wait like 10s for enemies to die (esp grineer). But on low level missions, any AOE damage will instakill enemies. Which is just the reality of the situation. Which is also present on equinox, and frost if you just spam avalanche, and the list goes on.

 

Either play higher level missions, or play solo if it bothers you so much

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

Quit the missions they're in, they don't like it when they're by themselves

[tarfeef101]

sorry for not putting this in my first reply, but here is why ember exists like this:

Not everyone likes exterminate, capture, etc. Many ppl (myself included) find enjoyment through challenging content. Which is warframe is basically endless missions. So, when an alert, invasion, sortie, kuva mission, etc comes up on one of these modes, we want to just get it done and move on. Or if you are farming ducats, same concept. And there is nothing wrong with that. Ember facilitates those motivations. If you don't fall in line with the majority of the playerbase on how a mission should be done, don't play with them. Leave, or just play solo. Or recruit if you care that much

[Xekrin]

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

its an ember burning everything before any other player and having the firequake augment mod equipped to knock and burn the heavier units.

you aren't the first to complain about this, and you will not be the last.  It hasn't been changed yet though, so, good luck.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

33 minutes ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

Alright so I main Warframe on Xbone and just started on Ps4 which is fun to earn the stuff back whenever I am bored on playstation. Anyway everytime I jump into an exterminate 99% of the time its an ember burning everything before any other player and having the firequake augment mod equipped to knock and burn the heavier units. Its just press Y, Triangle, or 4 to win basically and its frustrating like mirage with simulor or zephyr with tonkor and I am glad that the frequency of those pairs has dropped significantly. Ember and Ignis need to be added to that list as its not fun following an ember even if its fast. Its not fun being a ninja with dead enemies before you can even fire your weapon or melee an enemy. I know I will get flak for this as in destiny whenever something needed a fix ie special ammo everyone was hurt which I can relate too but this is entirely different in warframe we are powerful but not at the expense of others aka limbo rework

Sorry I can't agree.  I never understood efficiency nerfs. 

Eventually, you'll also get to the point where you want to maximize your loot gains that are worth the time you spend playing.

And personally, I think it's hilarious to jump into a pug extermination with a maim Equinox and outpace the WoF Ember.

[DynamoShot]

I generally run Ember on low lvl missions where im after a certain reward like Invasion exterminates, also I run her on Hieracon. Personally I have seen very little embers used in mm besides those simple grind missions like Invasion exterminates, I would prefer to keep her as she is as shes also terrible with scaling.

[Nyaa314]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

And personally, I think it's hilarious to jump into a pug extermination with a maim Equinox and outpace the WoF Ember.

B-b-but you'd need to press 4... more than once per mission *gasp*

[JoshuaAnders]

If you want to take your time in an exterminate. Go solo or with friends.

Generally speaking people join public missions with the intention to speed run them. So more often than not you have at the very least, one guy with a loadout that enables them to rush through the mission like it's nothing. A lot of the time they're using a suped up Ember, yes, but not always.

There are literally countless loadout combinations that can completely decimate enemies in exterminations, it's not just Ember. It just so happens that Ember is the most efficient way to speed run certain missions at certain levels.

So yeah, the issue isn't Ember. The root issue is that you are expecting other people to play how you want, when what you want is completely contradictory to what most people who run public exterminate missions want, which is a speed run.

It also depends on other things like reaction time and skill. I just started a fresh account a little over a week ago and have done lots of exterminate runs where my damage and kills have surpassed those of an Ember's (even when they're a higher MR than me), and I main Excal (no, I don't spam EB, I mainly use SD + RJ).

So yeah. You can't expect people to play how you want them to, unless you have a pre-made squad whereby you have all agreed to play the same way. And you can't even justifiably complain about the point you raised because if what you're saying is true for Ember, it's true for pretty much all suped up loadouts that can make quick work of exterminates. Which is pretty much all loadouts after you've spent enough time in-game and suped up your equipment enough. So your point / complaint is actually about the core mechanics of the game. Which in my opinion, shows that the root issue is your view of the game and how it should be played. Which doesn't really apply because it's DE's game, not yours.

Edited July 26, 2017 by JoshuaAnders

[Jangkrik]

Nothing will change. Nerf Ember, people will use Equinox. Nerf Equinox, people will use Excal. Nerf Excal, people will go Mesa. Nerf Mesa, there's Nidus. The list goes on. Nerf every nuker and people will use Orthos/Atterax slide spam and other cheese tactics.

The only thing that will happen is reducing the nerfed frames' viability and I don't think that's a good idea. As long as there's a grind, people will try to do everything as efficient as possible, including WoF spam.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Jangkrik

[kyori]

So... what if other players cry nerf for the frames you like to play? Does that sounds cool?

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

17 minutes ago, JoshuaAnders said:

If you want to take your time in an exterminate. Go solo or with friends.

Generally speaking people join public missions with the intention to speed run them. So more often than not you have at the very least, one guy with a loadout that enables them to rush through the mission like it's nothing. A lot of the time they're using a suped up Ember, yes, but not always.

There are literally countless loadout combinations that can completely decimate enemies in exterminations, it's not just Ember. It just so happens that Ember is the most efficient way to speed run certain missions at certain levels.

So yeah, the issue isn't Ember. The root issue that you are expecting other people to play how you want, when what you want is completely contradictory to what most people who run public exterminate missions want, which is a speed run.

It also depends on other things like reaction time and skill. I just started a fresh account a little over a week ago and have done lots of exterminate runs where my damage and kills have surpassed those of an Ember's (even when they're a higher MR than me), and I main Excal (no, I don't spam EB, I mainly use SD + RJ).

So yeah. You can't expect people to play how you want them to, unless you have a pre-made squad whereby you have all agreed to play the same way. And you can't even justifiably complain about the point you raised because if what you're saying is true for Ember, it's true for pretty much all suped up loadouts that can make quick work of exterminates. Which is pretty much all loadouts after you've spent enough time in-game and suped up your equipment enough. So your point / complaint is actually about the core mechanics of the game. Which in my opinion, shows that the root issue is your view of the game and how it should be played. Which doesn't really apply because it's DE's game, not yours.

I knew that... And its not to play how I want its just not fun having everything die before you arrive. Matchmaking is optional so you should not feel forced to take it to solo because ember can wreck everything just activating 2 abilities firing ignis constantly. And someone mentioned day form equinox but that takes special modding and knowledge...its not hard to have high power strength on ember and you win.

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

1 minute ago, kyori said:

So... what if other players cry nerf for the frames you like to play? Does that sounds cool?

Ok so how do you nerf Nova, Nyx, Oberon, Nekros and Frost and Volt. Don't just do the obvious ones and I'm sure the general community can see where I am coming from saying ember has gotten quite annoying

[Ollnozz]

Just checking, you don't have Ember yourself, correct?

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

42 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

No. Ember has been like this for years, and for a reason. She doesn't scale well into high level content. If you go to lvl 70+, you'd have to spam accelerant and wait like 10s for enemies to die (esp grineer). But on low level missions, any AOE damage will instakill enemies. Which is just the reality of the situation. Which is also present on equinox, and frost if you just spam avalanche, and the list goes on.

 

Either play higher level missions, or play solo if it bothers you so much

What are you talking about the enemies she cannot kill are removed from the engagement by constant knockdown utilizing the firequake augment. So yes please tune ember slightly to bring her in line with the other frames.

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

4 minutes ago, Ollnozz said:

Just checking, you don't have Ember yourself, correct?

I do but only use her when I play my syndicate missions solo. I hate the way she plays, WoF and the enemies are non existant basically. So lazy and no skill to run, find the medallions and profit. Take it into a public game and the people not running cc frames won't have a good time.

[Ollnozz]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

I do but only use her when I play my syndicate missions solo. I hate the way she plays, WoF and the enemies are non existant basically. So lazy and no skill to run, find the medallions and profit. Take it into a public game and the people not running cc frames won't have a good time.

Do the Ember users you see just ult right off the bat and keep it up for the whole mission? What kind of enemies are you fighting, on what mission type, and at what level?

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

1 hour ago, JudgeXion said:

What if they just made you immobile when using world of fire like how Banshee can't move when using sound quake. 

I feel like that would just flat out break ember which isn't what I think would fit. Anything from lethality to enemies effected by WoF. That is my fix. i wish I could test it but I am no dev

[Ollnozz]

23 minutes ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

 And someone mentioned day form equinox but that takes special modding and knowledge...its not hard to have high power strength on ember and you win.

I must disagree with this claim. A Maim Equinox build requires a balance of Strength, Range and Efficiency/Duration to be effective. A World on Fire Ember build demands more or less the same. Pure Strength leads to about 5 energy being consumed per second after the hefty casting cost of 77 energy. Again, a balance between Range, Strength and Efficiency/Duration.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Ollnozz

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

7 minutes ago, Ollnozz said:

Do the Ember users you see just ult right off the bat and keep it up for the whole mission? What kind of enemies are you fighting, on what mission type, and at what level?

Any enemy factions you throw. Void Capture with ember. Infested exterminate ember. grineer interception ember... And corpus defense ember 90% of the time from alerts to fissures. They usually pop 2x 100 energy pads and wait to charge then obliterate everything without blinking twice.

[(XBOX)D3L7A Z7R1K3]

2 minutes ago, Ollnozz said:

I must disagree with this claim. A Maim Equinox build requires a balance of Strength, Range and Efficiency/Duration to be effective. A World on Fire Ember build demands more or less the same. Pure Strength leads to about 5 energy being consumed per second after the hefty casting cost of 77 energy. Again, a balance between Range, Strength and Efficiency/Duration.

I can agree 110% but a streamline can help solve that a little and maybe a primed continuity at rank 10 could help soften it a little more.

[Ollnozz]

Just now, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

I can agree 110% but a streamline can help solve that a little and maybe a primed continuity at rank 10 could help soften it a little more.

Indeed. I'm reading around and checking on what other have to say about Ember, the general sentiment is that people take her as being a very proficient sweeper for low-level missions (Enemy level under 60) but she falls off when levels start to scale, armor comes into play or when her energy is depleted. Granted, Accelerant can rectify this quickly, but it takes more precious energy. Truth be told, it seems that her energy consumption is meant to play in as a weakness, but when solved by blue pizzas it does create a lot of problems.

[Ollnozz]

6 minutes ago, (Xbox One)D3L7A Z7R1K3 said:

Any enemy factions you throw. Void Capture with ember. Infested exterminate ember. grineer interception ember... And corpus defense ember 90% of the time from alerts to fissures. They usually pop 2x 100 energy pads and wait to charge then obliterate everything without blinking twice.

Any enemy levels exceeding 70-80 here?