Trinity Nerfs are incoming be prepared

[(PSN)abbacephas]

9 minutes ago, Archistopheles said:

I gotchu, fam.

[Aldarys_]

On 17/08/2017 at 4:00 AM, Tesseract7777 said:

Kind of clickbaity, "incoming" is not a good way to describe Trinity changes. 

Scott literally said that she wasn't even on the radar right now, and that he would not go after her until he had time to do a full rework and give her a lot of new pluses to go with any nerfs. 

And while I don't remember his exact words, he made it pretty clear she was very low on his list of rework priorities. 

Which means it could actually be years.

That's not what incoming means. -

Good lord, thank you for your intervention.

[SharkPot]

Wukong gets over 14 secs of invul, Octavia can make full team invis give damage boost and deal billions of damage /sec, Harrow gets over 15 secs of invul along with an extreme crit boost, Rhino can stun lock a whole map, Frost can freeze lock a whole map, Banshee can stun lock a whole map, loki can disarm every enemy enemy within about 50m radius and so on. Yet people think Trinity is over powered. Well done community.

[(PSN)bad_dreams]

Smh, another call for a "broken" frame, that actually works exactly as intended. The broken part has already been fixed. There is no God mode squad trinity any more.

With a correctly built ev, you have no duration for the bless

With a bless, you have no duration negative for a decent energy return in higher content.

Ya know why ppl don't want to run trinity in squads? It's boring. She's the example of a constant cast frame. 

In high level content, she can be killed during an ev animation easily.

Bless is now a fixed range, and self damage is no longer a thing. 

Leave my trin'mccrabbybottom alone.

[Arniox]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:24 PM, Milinko said:

So at tennocon someone complained about Trinity being to powerful and needing to be looked at, of which [DE] responded with it will happen just not soon

Ok, I want to expand on that a bit: DE said they were going to look at her, but they said they wanted to look at a million other frames first and trinity wasn't even a little speck on a car window yet, so no need to worry for quite a while. They also said that they aren't particularly going to nerf her. So far, most reworks of frames have been f*king fantastic and amazing. All of them bar a few have made the frames really interesting and fun to play. Even hydroids rework, whilst lacking, makes him way more fun than what he was previously. So however they rework/re-look at Trinity, I'm sure that it won't be bad, and it'll probably turn out really fun and awesome in the long run.

[Arniox]

On 8/16/2017 at 4:24 PM, Milinko said:

First link her ability to cast to the duration of the ability

That's LITERALLY, 100% what it is right now.... The reason she can do the ev build is that you have a 12% duration build. The low duration allows you to cast it faster. Also, I wont mind any sort of change to Trinity cause I'm totally meh at this point. Reworks have all been pretty good so far, BUT, I would rather have Trinities ev untouched. It's really not that OP. When there's zenurik, and energise and many other methods to get energy, I really don't think ev should be touched.

[Arniox]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:20 PM, AlendasNaro said:

Nidus has like 10 times more damage than any warframe

actually no, trinities ev has scaling damage. If you don't know/remember, there was last years tennocon alert mission. It had level 9999 enemies and the only two things that actually killed them at a decent pace was covert lethality and trinities ev. The ev does a % amount of damage to ANY level enemy, so in that mission, per energy tick, she did around 1 million damage.

[AlendasNaro]

2 minutes ago, Arniox said:

actually no, trinities ev has scaling damage. If you don't know/remember, there was last years tennocon alert mission. It had level 9999 enemies and the only two things that actually killed them at a decent pace was covert lethality and trinities ev. The ev does a % amount of damage to ANY level enemy, so in that mission, per energy tick, she did around 1 million damage.

The damage type was changed at some point what I remember...

[(PSN)robotwars7]

when is this gonna stop?

I barely play as Trinity anymore, but even I know that if she gets nerfed anymore she'll be occupying Hydroid's old spot at the bottom of the pile. Trinity players have to sacrifice pretty much any offense or CC they could bring to the table instead. and you need both of those if you want to actually kill stuff and get the mission done. I much prefer Harrow as my Support frame now. people have got to elarn to be very careful what they wish for with regards to nerfs, because DE don't do things in half measures.

you wanna nerf Trin, go right ahead, but I don't wanna see any B*tching if she become woefully underpowered. you reap what you sow.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

when is this gonna stop?

I barely play as Trinity anymore, but even I know that if she gets nerfed anymore she'll be occupying Hydroid's old spot at the bottom of the pile. Trinity players have to sacrifice pretty much any offense or CC they could bring to the table instead. and you need both of those if you want to actually kill stuff and get the mission done. I much prefer Harrow as my Support frame now. people have got to elarn to be very careful what they wish for with regards to nerfs, because DE don't do things in half measures.

you wanna nerf Trin, go right ahead, but I don't wanna see any B*tching if she become woefully underpowered. you reap what you sow.

 

[Arniox]

34 minutes ago, AlendasNaro said:

The damage type was changed at some point what I remember...

nope, it was not. And anyway, that doesn't affect it. Any type of damage does % damage over time. So no matter what level, and what damage type, this does infinitely scaling damage. I think ev does about 4 ticks/pulses of damage to an enemy, and each tick it does 6.25% of it's REMAINING health as finisher damage (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity). The remaining part is important. Say an enemy has 1 million ehp. The first tick does 62,500 damage taking his health down to 937,500, the second pulse does 6.25% of that meaning 58,593.75 damage, resulting in 878,906.25 health left. Third pulse results in 823,974, and the last pulse results in 772,476 health. So it does some pretty powerful scaling damage. It's not actually that much, but if you ev a couple more times. AND, those numbers are all with an unmodded trinity. With a proper ev build with around 200% strength, you get even more damage percentage. But yeah, I think trinity has the highest scaling damage in the game.

[AlendasNaro]

2 minutes ago, Arniox said:

nope, it was not. And anyway, that doesn't affect it. Any type of damage does % damage over time. So no matter what level, and what damage type, this does infinitely scaling damage. I think ev does about 4 ticks/pulses of damage to an enemy, and each tick it does 6.25% of it's REMAINING health as finisher damage (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity). The remaining part is important. Say an enemy has 1 million ehp. The first tick does 62,500 damage taking his health down to 937,500, the second pulse does 6.25% of that meaning 58,593.75 damage, resulting in 878,906.25 health left. Third pulse results in 823,974, and the last pulse results in 772,476 health. So it does some pretty powerful scaling damage. It's not actually that much, but if you ev a couple more times. AND, those numbers are all with an unmodded trinity. With a proper ev build with around 200% strength, you get even more damage percentage. But yeah, I think trinity has the highest scaling damage in the game.

You can EV only one target at once and you are vulnerable rest of the time EV is active + level 9999 is basically area where no player doesn't want to go they already get out at level 150 in general. Sure she has greatest damage but that doesn't mean it has be nerfed because it does it. Most of the time people are running duration build for damage resistance and ability to stay in a fight EV is barely used and if it is. It is to help battery carriers in LoR and give shields (when using Augment) in the second part of LoR.

Just pointing out this doesn't really give any reason to nerf Trinity in general as most players will just one shot the EV target to get two quick pulses of energy. To be also mentioned enemies lately have had a really bad habit of getting out of staggers and stuns. This is just more problems to Trinity in general.

[Sabreracer]

11 minutes ago, Arniox said:

nope, it was not. And anyway, that doesn't affect it. Any type of damage does % damage over time. So no matter what level, and what damage type, this does infinitely scaling damage. I think ev does about 4 ticks/pulses of damage to an enemy, and each tick it does 6.25% of it's REMAINING health as finisher damage (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Trinity). The remaining part is important. Say an enemy has 1 million ehp. The first tick does 62,500 damage taking his health down to 937,500, the second pulse does 6.25% of that meaning 58,593.75 damage, resulting in 878,906.25 health left. Third pulse results in 823,974, and the last pulse results in 772,476 health. So it does some pretty powerful scaling damage. It's not actually that much, but if you ev a couple more times. AND, those numbers are all with an unmodded trinity. With a proper ev build with around 200% strength, you get even more damage percentage. But yeah, I think trinity has the highest scaling damage in the game.

Unless things have changed in the last six months (while I've been on a break) the ticks are based on the health at cast.

The way to do it is cast WoL first then before the last tick cast EV the damage is then set to the HUGELY inflated health value and ticks accordingly everything dies unless it has immunity.  

The above was quoted by [DE]Glen as intended design.  

My stats say my most played frame is Trinity and this was working as intended last time I used her but I haven't used this in the last couple of weeks I've been back.

[Arniox]

2 minutes ago, Sabreracer said:

Unless things have changed in the last six months (while I've been on a break) the ticks are based on the health at cast.

The way to do it is cast WoL first then before the last tick cast EV the damage is then set to the HUGELY inflated health value and ticks accordingly everything dies unless it has immunity.  

The above was quoted by [DE]Glen as intended design.  

My stats say my most played frame is Trinity and this was working as intended last time I used her but I haven't used this in the last couple of weeks I've been back.

oh yeah. According to the wiki, an enemies health is multiplied by 10 (and restored) so a 1 million health enemy has 10 million health, and then the tick damage on the first pulse would do 625,000 damage. So yeah :P. As soon as your first ability finished, it would be left with 375,000 health with no mods on trinity. With mods, it would be dead :P

[Shiichibukai]

On 16.8.2017 at 6:30 AM, RikerWatts said:

Trinity is fine where she is, I don't understand why she would need any nerf in the first place.

Cuz EV and Bless break the game and make everything easier than it already is.

[AlendasNaro]

1 minute ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Cuz EV and Bless break the game and make everything easier than it already is.

It doesn't even then. It used to give damage immunity but now it is 50 meter range and 50% damage reduction on everybody in shared affinity range (Exception if you have certain ability on use at Vazarin?) even if you are able to take a lot of damage. You still have the problem. A lot of enemies. Trinity is made for team play. One bad team can make you feel REALLY miserable even if they have blessing.

The cost of blessing is at best at 40 or 70 so you basically all the time have to keep your energy batteries filled for the worst moments. Alone Trinity is really bad. Heck you get better results alone with Harrow than Trinity. With good team yes you and your team kinda steam roll but not forever. Trinity all the time has to keep eye on the energy this has.

[Shiichibukai]

28 minutes ago, AlendasNaro said:

It doesn't even then. It used to give damage immunity but now it is 50 meter range and 50% damage reduction on everybody in shared affinity range (Exception if you have certain ability on use at Vazarin?) even if you are able to take a lot of damage. You still have the problem. A lot of enemies. Trinity is made for team play. One bad team can make you feel REALLY miserable even if they have blessing.

The cost of blessing is at best at 40 or 70 so you basically all the time have to keep your energy batteries filled for the worst moments. Alone Trinity is really bad. Heck you get better results alone with Harrow than Trinity. With good team yes you and your team kinda steam roll but not forever. Trinity all the time has to keep eye on the energy this has.

It still makes everything easier EV and Bless are too strong.

[AlendasNaro]

Just now, Shichibukai88 said:

It still makes everything easier EV and Bless are too strong.

It is all about if your team works with you. Team mates can make it really difficult for you to keep them alive if they are not aware how Trinity works.

[Andaius]

51 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

Cuz EV and Bless break the game and make everything easier than it already is.

Lol so the frames that do millions of damage, go invulnerable or invisible while making a room full of guys kill each other or stripping them of weapons/ blinding them or other wise stun lock them are just fine. Just because you can give them one method of getting energy that is IF they leave anyone alive for you to cast on and by chance get hurt for you to heal TRINITY is OP?

[Shiichibukai]

1 hour ago, AlendasNaro said:

It is all about if your team works with you. Team mates can make it really difficult for you to keep them alive if they are not aware how Trinity works.

 

1 hour ago, Andaius said:

Lol so the frames that do millions of damage, go invulnerable or invisible while making a room full of guys kill each other or stripping them of weapons/ blinding them or other wise stun lock them are just fine. Just because you can give them one method of getting energy that is IF they leave anyone alive for you to cast on and by chance get hurt for you to heal TRINITY is OP?

Oh there are plenty of game breaking frames/weapons, hell any weapon with all those stupid damage mods breaks the games difficulty at the moment. WF is far too easy. And you cant deny that, and dont even start with "then just use unleveld equipment".NO. Why should I have to make the game difficult for me, after spending all this time to level/craft all my stuff? Trin is just ONE example of a frame that breaks the game. Excal is another now, with chromatic blade. Loki another one. Saryn. Nova. You name it, it probably is true.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Shichibukai88

[AcceI]

Already deleted my Trinity Prime.  Nerf wont effect me. 

[Andaius]

4 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

 

Oh there are plenty of game breaking frames/weapons, hell any weapon with all those stupid damage mods breaks the games difficulty at the moment. WF is far too easy. And you cant deny that, and dont even start with "then just use unleveld equipment".NO. Why should I have to make the game difficult for me, after spending all this time to level/craft all my stuff? Trin is just ONE example of a frame that breaks the game. Excal is another now, with chromatic blade. Loki another one. Saryn. Nova. You name it, it probably is true.

Being super ninja's is whats this games all about. Fodder mobs are fodder. They go down by the hundreds before us. Whats the point of being super soldier void creatures with super advanced Orokin warframes if fodder mobs gave us trouble? I'll grant you that balance isn't so good the further to go up the chain in enemy levels with armor scaling. What they have to do is really sit down and balance everything with a definite "high" level in mind. Say Level 100. Then they can take a look at all the weapons and powers and arrange then in how they want it to work vs said enemy toughness.

[AlendasNaro]

20 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

 

Oh there are plenty of game breaking games, hell any weapon with all those stupid damage mods breaks the games difficulty at the moment. WF is far too easy. And you cant deny that, and dont even start with "then just use unleveld equipment".NO. Why should I have to make the game difficult for me, after spending all this time to level/craft all my stuff? Trin is just ONE example of a frame that breaks the game. Excal is another now, with chromatic blade. Loki another one. Saryn. Nova. You name it, it probably is true.

Trinity has ability to support and survive that is where she excels. Why is that people have so big problem with Trinity when they know that all other warframes are twice as powerful or just as powerful as Trinity.

Never asked for you to make the game more difficult but remember the option is there. You are stating the obvious what comes on how easy warframe is as a game. Although the game has potential to be more difficult thing is that it is tough to make content tough for veteran players without stepping over new players or less experienced ones which is the problem here. Nerfing a warframe that has been beaten down like what? Over 7 times is not going to cut it. Oh Harrow was released and he has ability to make whole team invulnerable for about half a minute. Let's nerf Trinity so more players will exploit the unbalanced content. Is that really the way we are going here? Seems to be so to me.

Before we start making me changes to warframes that are okay right now. We have to bring others on the same level. That means we have to stomp on Nidus and Harrow a bit then look how player base likes to go with things. Nerfs and buffs aren't easy. There is nothing obvious on Trinity that needs to be cut down. DE didn't rework or give much of buffs or nerfs when she was given a Prime variant. Why now then?

Edited August 18, 2017 by AlendasNaro

[(PSN)felsager]

On 8/16/2017 at 0:46 AM, Imaru said:

 

Trinity does all of that at once. You can easily get plenty of energy for you and your team, and use that to maintain your health pretty much indefinitely. 

 

I have Trinity with energize and a well rounded Huras. She got nerfed twice in the past. Why you want to make her useless. Look what happened to Meza. 

Many users starts going crybaby on good ideas when they don't need to be touched. Then developers nerfs and great frames go back to the shelf. For example, while Mercy in Overwatch starts to gains good buffs, in here many frames are reduced to useless coprolite because many wants to get rid of the fun of such frames. I do understand that equality must be searched for a greater distribution of frames. 

Trinity is weak and vulnerable even with a Huras. Instead of reducing their powers to useless decorative special effects why don't DE focus on increasing enemy capabilities instead of turning our warframes into useless defenseless kids. Warframe is a game liked by many because it allows "ENDGAME". Many of us spend time, money and experimentation getting a good built. All of the sudden that effort ends up shelved. 

I am a healer practitioner in games like this and Overwatch. I focus on healing and making a team strong. That role demands more than any other frame who is dedicated to CC or any other special task. It is sad how many wants good frames becomes horse residual just because they think that such power makes the content 'trivial'. 

[TheGrimCorsair]

Whole point of the talk wasn't that Trinity needs a nerf, so much that she was designed for a game that simply doesn't exist anymore and her kit reflects that. Her 1 could stand to be deleted and replaced with a new power entirely. Her 2 generates far too much power and is all around way too strong (especially in a minimum duration build with its augment). Her 3 is pretty good but for the kind of ability it is, it has way too long of a casting animation and way too short a duration, especially given its other limitations. Her 4 is, quite easily, an on-command group full heal that easily beats out every other healing power in the game. Best place to start would probably be redistributing her healing and energy generation capabilities throughout her kit while keeping an eye towards them requiring good timing of them for maximum effect.