People not understand frame mechanics

[PrimeAlpaca]

What's with people not understand the mechanics of frames besides direct damage, cc, and heals? People seem to have the basic mentality of 'I want to do damage. Will this frame do damage? If so, then I like this frame. If not, then this frame is lame'.

Let's take the comparison between Nova and Limbo. Both used for their cc capabilities. Nova's mechanics are straight forward; you don't even need to know how she really works. Nova press 4 - her 4 slows (or speeds up) and increases your damage. Done. Simple. Other teammates don't need to play differently; just shoot and kill as usual.

Then there's Limbo. Arguably best cc in the game for defense, survival, rescue missions. completely freezes enemies. Make teammates invulnerable and give them passive energy regen. He can theoretically go endless if played right. Problem is, his abilities are not like Nova's. They require your teammates to have basic understand of how limbo works and play different than to just pew pew at enemies. His mechanics aren't even complex yet people call him lame because they can't brainlessly run through a level shooting what's in front of them.

This whole thing is reflected on how DE buffs the frames.

Limbo - damage buff

Oberon - damage buff

Hydroid - damage buff

There is a lack of creativity in the utilization of frames. People just want either damage, damage buff, or cc and nothing else in their gameplay. The most played and "op" heroes have all of those attributes in some way. Now the only way to get people to play these 'unconventional' frames is to buff their damage to absurd levels that it totally negates their intended purpose.

 

More of a rant than anything. I just want to play different frames with interesting mechanics and not be called lame for using a lame frame. Game gets boring with same old setups.

 

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Here's the problem: you're talking about Limbo, a frame that is used by players to troll other players. That you play him in a way that isn't meant to troll is lamentable. But you can't expect to enter a PuG with him and not expect to receive some kind of flack (whether for better or worse). 

The only workaround is to gather a group of likeminded individuals who understand how you're using Limbo and have fun. It is too much to expect a bunch of randoms to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[Miser_able]

The thing about limbo vs nova is, nova doesn't force you to play any differently, where as a stasis build limbo forces you play melee only for a little while, and not everyone has a good melee or even likes melee. 

[Spartan336]

That's kinda what Warframes are though. Different way's to destroy your opponents day. Thats pretty much what players want, to brainlessly run though a mission destroying everything in their path. (Though I'll admit, buffing Hydroids damage didn't make him any more fun to play.) Thats why Limbo get's shunned. People use Limbo to troll their allies. Yes, Limbo's a good frame. But he's also the one that can deter a match and make the game less fun. 

So, as Abba up there said, just get together some like-minded people if you want to play Limbo legit without getting hate. 

[Hecro]

22 minutes ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

He can theoretically go endless if played right.

Unless when a Nullifier comes out of nowhere you can possibly see and keeps destroying your Cataclysm over and over, until you and the defense target die.

That said, I love Limbo.

Edited August 21, 2017 by Hecro

[Archistopheles]

27 minutes ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

What's with people not understand the mechanics of frames

Some people don't know because they don't know.

Some people know and don't care.

It's not like this game is a shining example of tutorials and explanations of mechanics. If you haven't played as Limbo, chances are you don't know what Limbo even does.

This is why we have communication in game. "Hey, my ability does this", "Do you know how Limbo works?" "Stay close" etc etc.

Getting mad and/or insulting others does the opposite. People will ignore you hard, and in some cases actively go against your strategy.

[KirukaChan]

Limbo's Stasis is annoying, as is the Rift Mechanic (sometimes). I welcome Limbo in defending objectives or operatives, but I don't want him around for something like Survival where killing quickly is what the mission requires.

[Airwolfen]

Sounds more like comnents made against the choice of limbo specifically rather then not picking nova.

Limbo has the huge problem of locking down playstyles. Its also why I dont like playing with an allied one. 

My main weapon is the Kohm... cant use that.

My secondary is a Euphona with a hybrid riven... cant use that either.

My melee is the S&A prime that works best on fast movenent while cleaving through groups... limbo creates a brick wall of enemies.

He completely locks down the way I like to play. So screw damage as a frame. I play Harrow from time to time and he has 0 kit damage. He does not have to deal damage, but I'd like to play the way I'm build for thank you.

I understand how limbo works. Waaaay more then I'd ever like to.

[PrimeAlpaca]

@Archistopheles

I don't insult people. I know well enough that those that care to know will already have search up the mechanics themselves (or will after the match) and those that don't simple will not regardless of what I say. It's absurd that in all other games you'll be labeled noob for not knowing the basic game mechanics. While in warframe, I feel like the noob for not playing 'meta' frames. It's general mentality of the warframe audience. People want to just shoot stuff like CoD. This isn't overwatch, I get it.

@KirukaChan

Depends on the player. I hate frost for the simple fact that most frosts spam their globes when it's not needed and obstruct vision and blocks bullets.

 

[PrimeAlpaca]

17 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

Sounds more like comnents made against the choice of limbo specifically rather then not picking nova.

Limbo has the huge problem of locking down playstyles. Its also why I dont like playing with an allied one. 

My main weapon is the Kohm... cant use that.

My secondary is a Euphona with a hybrid riven... cant use that either.

My melee is the S&A prime that works best on fast movenent while cleaving through groups... limbo creates a brick wall of enemies.

He completely locks down the way I like to play. So screw damage as a frame. I play Harrow from time to time and he has 0 kit damage. He does not have to deal damage, but I'd like to play the way I'm build for thank you.

I understand how limbo works. Waaaay more then I'd ever like to.

I'd argue that very existence of 'meta' inherently locks away other play styles but that's neither here nor there. On topic, limbo actually opens up more possibilities than you give credit for. For example many channeling frames benefit from being in the rift. - Invulnerability and energy regen. Limbo is not locked into only using cataclysm. There are a lot of creative ways of utilizing his kit. 

I'll say that the current state of the game does not provide adequate environment for experimentation when the power creep is so strong and killing things as fast as possible is the most 'optimal' way to do most missions.

FYI, I'm not a defender of limbo, he just offers a different playstyle and not many people seeks to explore that.

Edited August 22, 2017 by PrimeAlpaca

[Doforcash]

it's not they fault that playing a shooting game and expect being efficiency at putting the other guy down to the ground.

Limbo get Damage buff cuz the community want so, and so does Oberon, and Hydroid...dont forget Trinity, Frost and Excalibul weren't used to relying on Power Strength so much, the Community want this. (Trinity used to be a support Frame btw)

nowadays most of the game fan-boy are "hardcore" player who prefer to get they brain taped on Endless type mission then crying about how they weapon didn't even leave a scratch on a lv 100 Grineer Bomba.

Remember, we used to have alot of gun, weapons, with even more awesome mechanic (on paper), but if it's not deal enough damage to big bag guy, then it's not a big bad gun.

TL;DR

high damage output is the core of Warframe enjoyment, you can't change that even if you're the least one to die in your squad

[MagPrime]

No one cares about the mechanics of Warframes simply because there are others that blow them out of the water. It's a nice big red pleasure button and not many will choose the panel of multiple pleasure buttons over it, it's too easy to get their fix with the big red one.

[PrimeAlpaca]

12 minutes ago, Doforcash said:

it's not they fault that playing a shooting game and expect being efficiency at putting the other guy down to the ground.

Limbo get Damage buff cuz the community want so, and so does Oberon, and Hydroid...dont forget Trinity, Frost and Excalibul weren't used to relying on Power Strength so much, the Community want this. (Trinity used to be a support Frame btw)

nowadays most of the game fan-boy are "hardcore" player who prefer to get they brain taped on Endless type mission then crying about how they weapon didn't even leave a scratch on a lv 100 Grineer Bomba.

Remember, we used to have alot of gun, weapons, with even more awesome mechanic (on paper), but if it's not deal enough damage to big bag guy, then it's not a big bad gun.

TL;DR

high damage output is the core of Warframe enjoyment, you can't change that even if you're the least one to die in your squad

Eh, if that is so, why does DE come up with different mechanics not only with frames and weapons but with general game design such as spy, rescue etc. Guess that's why DE has been buffing frames dps left and right.

Also, it's no ones fault. Not DE, supporters or the players. I'm simply making an observation, albeit a bit ranty. However, if everyone is in accordance to the mentality of 'high damage output is the core of Warframe enjoyment, you can't change that even if you're the least one to die in your squad'. Then this thread is pointless.

Hadn't played for long, perhaps it is best to find like minded people to play. Personally, the mechanics fascinate me and it's a pity it's not appreciated more by the community. *shrug*

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by PrimeAlpaca

[Rakosta_Kai]

6 minutes ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

I'll say that the current state of the game does not provide adequate environment for experimentation when the power creep is so strong and killing things as fast as possible is the most 'optimal' way to do most missions.

FYI, I'm not a defender of limbo, he just offers a different playstyle and not many people seeks to explore that.

I'd say the environment is fine in this respect...

There are many different mods are on offer that change the way the game is played dramatically.

 

The fact that you can practice those builds and setups solo ensures adequate environment for experimentation.

Some of the more meta/OP stuff we have seen in this game came from similar experiments  I'd imagine.  

 

[PrimeAlpaca]

1 minute ago, Padre_Akais said:

I'd say the environment is fine in this respect...

There are many different mods are on offer that change the way the game is played dramatically.

 

The fact that you can practice those builds and setups solo ensures adequate environment for experimentation.

Some of the more meta/OP stuff we have seen in this game came from similar experiments  I'd imagine.  

 

Limitation is what spurs imagination and experimentation. No point in finding new ways to complete a mission when you can just one shot everything (the issue of overpowered weapons with our current low level content has been expressed by many). 

[saltygr33n]

There are more filthy casuals than hardcore players, I'm one of the filthy casuals, so I don't care about limbo, he can kiss my s@lty@ss, lol.

Jokes and seriousness aside, I still prefer slowva over limbo anyday, I don't care what people say, limbo ruins my playstyle, that's that.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 minute ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

Limitation is what spurs imagination and experimentation. No point in finding new ways to complete a mission when you can just one shot everything (the issue of overpowered weapons with our current low level content has been expressed by many). 

...It takes imagination to see the limitations to begin with.

 

[MagPrime]

28 minutes ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

Limitation is what spurs imagination and experimentation. No point in finding new ways to complete a mission when you can just one shot everything (the issue of overpowered weapons with our current low level content has been expressed by many). 

I disagree. 

With the variety of options open to me, I've had more fun experimenting with builds than I did when I started.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

Sure man. Everybody who disagree with you, or just ignore you, are wrong.

What if i say, YOU ARE completely miss the point?

 

2 hours ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

Arguably best cc in the game for defense, survival, rescue missions

You know, i don't need any CC at surv. I need to kill. This is a rule of this mission. Fast kill -- more oxygen.

Same with defense. If you are weak yes. You can think about CC and def... But the truth is there is no timer, or something. You just need to kill everybody. And i guess nobody want to live in mission, so you need to do this as fast as you can.

As for rescue, i see one Limbo. He run through me and my bro right after spawn. We get oneshoted, couse it was sortie. What did he say? "Sorry"? No, he say "why it is always min-max Octavia". Ok, maybe it have some sence. And actually, it is my problem to keep distance from visible teammates. But how it all ends? He just die at console. Couse Limbo can't actually control a croud. He can't even be safe for a 5 sec to open a door. I dunno what he doing all this time, but there is literally left 10 seconds. And for sure, he just attract so many corpus boys -- no chance to do anything.

Why i start from a start? Just to show he don't really think about themself. He think he is so-o-o smart. He play Limbo. Not stupid min-max Octavia.

 

And this is what i wanna say at the end.

3 hours ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

because they can't brainlessly run through a level shooting what's in front of them

This game is shooter (mostly) with a devastating warframes included. Most of time you need to kill.

Comprehension of this is a first job for your brain. And, the second step is creating a most efficient way to kill. If you are run through a level shooting what's in front of them and it's work -- well, job is done.

See there we come? You just miss main point of a game, and by this reason call good players "brainless". Wonderful, isn't it? There is no accomplishment if you make simple things more difficult.

 

[(XBOX)zzI Clippz Izz]

i'd enjoy limbo if all 4 of us were limbo toying in and out of the rift playing with our enemies like psychopaths, all casting cataclysm at the same time I can imagine how quickly low level farming would be then use the sancti tigris aswell to charge it up and explode even more enemies with it's ability and even heal yourself, while being able to go invincible btw a good melee weapon for limbo is actually the broken sceptre, you can go into the void and use the sceptre on enemies not in the void (I think it doesn't work logically but it works in game trust me) xdd also limbo is actually capable of just staying in void 24/7 just using sceptre to give allies energy or hp while also being able to recover anyone up off the the ground who's died before bleedout, you can basically use limbo on sorties missions that are too hard sometimes, just have a limbo in the squad reviving everyone till it's done.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)zzI Clippz Izz said:

i'd enjoy limbo if all 4 of us were limbo toying in and out of the rift playing with our enemies like psychopaths

[(XBOX)zzI Clippz Izz]

i thought it as soon as i first used him and i'll say it now... limbo *pause* prime. 

[PrimeAlpaca]

1 hour ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said:

Sure man. Everybody who disagree with you, or just ignore you, are wrong.

What if i say, YOU ARE completely miss the point?

Comprehension of this is a first job for your brain. And, the second step is creating a most efficient way to kill. If you are run through a level shooting what's in front of them and it's work -- well, job is done.

 

 

I'm not here for condescension. Nor did I say that they are inherently wrong. Did you even read the rest of my post. If you are trying convey a point to me, why do it in a patronizing way? I never called out anyone in game. this whole thread was an internal rant.

I'm not the game designer nor are you. We can't say what the true objective created by the game developer truly is. Perhaps they do want us to utilize cc hence existence of limbo and likewise characters. Also, you just generalized a single person playing limbo of whom you had a bad experience with to everyone who plays him.

Spy, rescue, Sabotage, capture needs to kill little to no enemies.

@MagPrime

The thought of limitation spurs innovation and imagination holds true for most things in the world. But I'm not here for philosophical discourse.

 

@rest

Had I known the same sentiment is shared so universally I would have not posted this. Forget this thread.

 

[MagPrime]

50 minutes ago, PrimeAlpaca said:

@MagPrime

The thought of limitation spurs innovation and imagination holds true for most things in the world. But I'm not here for philosophical discourse.

You're not here for it, yet you continue to throw it out there.

Aight, whatevs.  Have fun.

[Mintaro]

Here is an idea

Play what you love.