Bandaids for a broken game!

[Fallen_Echo]

Regardless of what you might think of the title in this post im going to suggest some bandaid mods for the broken/useless/annoying things you might encounter in this game.

The first mods come for arguably the worst melee weapon type the machetes. Their lack of damage, range and other shortcomings makes them an undesirable weapon choice.

Machete proficiency: increase attack speed, range and damage by 100%.

Poisoned blade: +100% poison damage +25% status chance (flat buff)

 

The next mod comes for a gameplay element whats existance sought many arguments here, the self damage.

Harmful intent  (Aura mod): Decreases self damage by 24% increases enemy self damage by 30%

This mod when everybody in the squad uses it reduces self damage by 96% and it increases enemy self damage by 120%. You might think what i mean by enemy self damage, well those pesky bombards, helions, and every enemy unit with an aoe based strike (excluding corpus sapper mines) will deal damage to the attacker. The tar-mutalists could die from their own puddles and if radiation hits them they could even kill their allies.

 

This one mod comes to fix the issue what harrow revealed, the shield bypassing damage types. Harrow is practically dead at the moment hes get hit by toxic, slash procs or get too close to ancients with toxic auras. This mod is for him and for those who waited for the never coming shield gating.

Neutralizing shield: Damage types what can bypass shield are always requied to first remove the players shield. +220% shield

 

Here comes another band-aid for a weapon class almost at the exact same position as the machetes, the dual daggers. These lackluster weapons could be really useful if they could function like daggers and weapons of stealth killing. So here comes a mod approved by the only person we should trust when we talk about handling daggers, Spy from team fortress 2!

Suprise attack: Backstabs deal +200% damage with +50% crit chance (flat bonus), every backstab has 5% chance to deal lethal damage

 

This one comes for an almost forgotten mechanic, the channelling. Because seriously who would want to use an attack technique what on overall decreases your chances of survival for medicore bonuses.

Channelling mastery: Increases chanelling efficiency by 100%, while channelling every attack has 50% chance to deal +100% damage and have +200% range

Outer Focus: Blocking while channelling grants 50% damage reduction to all teammates within 15m, enemies killed by channelled attacks restore 5 energy for everybody within 4m

 

This will be all now, feel free to share your thought on what band-aid would you want to see ingame till the moment DE actually fixes the issues.

 

[ironfirefist]

First off, more bandaids? yuck. I'd prefer a rework.

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Here comes another band-aid for a weapon class almost at the exact same position as the machetes, the dual daggers. These lackluster weapons could be really useful if they could function like daggers and weapons of stealth killing. So here comes a mod approved by the only person we should trust when we talk about handling daggers, Spy from team fortress 2!

Suprise attack: Backstabs deal +200% damage with +50% crit chance (flat bonus), every backstab has 5% chance to deal lethal damage

*cough covert lethality cough*

[Kalvorax]

3 minutes ago, ironfirefist said:

cough covert lethality cough*

*cough* single dagger only *cough*

OT, would really help with dual daggers..they such a pathetic range...AND pathetic damage..they really have nothing going for them

[Fallen_Echo]

7 minutes ago, ironfirefist said:

First off, more bandaids? yuck. I'd prefer a rework.

*cough covert lethality cough*

Covert lethality sadly dont work on dual daggers and having one mods shouldnt dictate if a weapon is useful or not but that aside if DE dont want to fix thing they should atleast give us mods to "fix" problems.

[peterc3]

Do enemies even do damage to themselves? 120% of 0 is... 0.

[YandereWaifu]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Do enemies even do damage to themselves? 120% of 0 is... 0.

they can knock themselves down, but his idea seems to be that they would now do 120% of thier damage as self damage instead of 0 

 

 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Do enemies even do damage to themselves? 120% of 0 is... 0.

 

4 minutes ago, YandereWaifu said:

they can knock themselves down, but his idea seems to be that they would now do 120% of thier damage as self damage instead of 0 

 

 

Currently enemies deal 0% self damage so Yandere is right just as we now get 100% of our modded damage dealt as self damage now enemies should suffer from that too.

[(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg]

the enemy self-damage shouldn't be a mod.  If we get self-damage from launchers - so should they.

 

[kapn655321]

I like this idea, OP.

I wonder though, was this the thought in mind when syndicate weapons arrived?
Are similar changes already in the pipeline?

It's a lot like augments are now, but more broadly accessible.

Honest opinion, I think that we'll come to find they're way ahead of ya,
but just have a ton of development deadlines up first. I mean, they
worked on TWW for How long? While still pumping out new content,
frames, the whole syndicate thing and augments, hotfixes, Devstreams
and events and... well, they're a busy bunch. But seeing augments,
syndicate specials, and rivens tells me both you and they are thinking
pretty similarly.

To say broken game is a bit ham-handed.. and it doesn't feel like you
meant it like that. (Maybe just a shock title to bring attention.)
Absolutely though, there are some growing pains at times.. some power
creep.. all manor of game shortfalls that pop up unexpectedly or at an
inconvenient cycle in development. Despite that, DE has some brass
ones to accept controversy and conflict, work through the painful bits,
and generally say, "F*** it, We'll do it live!"

[Fallen_Echo]

18 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Maybe just a shock title to bring attention.

Direct hit.

 

27 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I wonder though, was this the thought in mind when syndicate weapons arrived?

I regularly try to push new mod ideas in the forums because the current ones feel like they restrict you.

For example dual powerstat mods what we have all come with downsides but wouldnt it be better if we could get dualstat mods with only upsides?

Focused rage +50% power strenght +40% power efficiency, this mod is not stronger than blind rage or fleeting expertise but gives considerable bonuses for alternative builds.

Mind expand: +55% power range +30% power duration, double point requiement of the continuity mod but comes with bonus range

The last time favorite what many people liked was this mod:

Void Mastery: +75% to all power stats, increases status duration and chance on all attacks by 15%, removes access to weapons

Ever wanted to pick out a caster frame and use it purely as a caster but were unable to do soo because his powers were weak? Not anymore! For a great sacrafice comes great power!

[kapn655321]

This eludes to a greater systemic issue of powercreep, and how it will be approached in the future.
We all know there's no room or time for half the mods when it comes to serious ranks.
...As much as I'd love to use Reflect and Parry way more often.. there's just usually no way.

Rivens are kind of a bandaid for now. ..Not to be crude about it, but in a lot of ways it is.
Though with rivens in mind, they are aware and wish to address shortcomings of mods, and the state of the balance on the large scale.

Thing with the game's whole style of being live beta, is that these things often take longer than feels right..
Though you never know what kind of politics, financial hiccups, bugs, or other struggles cause what delays, when, and for how long.

I mean, as players, we're all totally aware of the mod structure's flaws..
Consequently, DE totally is, too.
They want to keep it as a core mechanic and business model, though the game is evolving in ways that make that increasingly difficult to implement.

Frankly, rebalancing every mod and weapon to work more like we expect, is a LOT to do, and requires overworking a lot of departments at once.. as well as
expenses! Good god.. could you imagine paying a team of X people to change every 5 to an 8, test it, launch it, bug check it, follow up with forums.. etc..?

What I do really like from OP's concepts, is a reduction in self damage! That's a little overdue.
Some way (other than link) to make public use of explosives viable.
(I say public use, because who hasn't had someone walk in front of their angstrum and assist their suicide?)

[Praxxor]

Bandaids are bad and you should feel bad.

[(PSN)theelix]

9 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Direct hit.

 

I regularly try to push new mod ideas in the forums because the current ones feel like they restrict you.

For example dual powerstat mods what we have all come with downsides but wouldnt it be better if we could get dualstat mods with only upsides?

Focused rage +50% power strenght +40% power efficiency, this mod is not stronger than blind rage or fleeting expertise but gives considerable bonuses for alternative builds.

Mind expand: +55% power range +30% power duration, double point requiement of the continuity mod but comes with bonus range

The last time favorite what many people liked was this mod:

Void Mastery: +75% to all power stats, increases status duration and chance on all attacks by 15%, removes access to weapons

Ever wanted to pick out a caster frame and use it purely as a caster but were unable to do soo because his powers were weak? Not anymore! For a great sacrafice comes great power!

Lol, and where is the balance here? 

I could understand Void Mastery ( even though it's simply not going to be enough for most "caster" frames -- hell, the buff sounds more fitting on Excalibur than Mag or Banshee) 

But stuff like Focused Rage? You only need to get streamline and you're in 5% of max power efficiency. Most people use that same level on Fleeting expertise to maximize effect and minimize waste. It also adds more power strength than base intensify, and as much as Energy Conversion? What's the point of those two mods after that, or Fleeting Expertise except for stupid things like Trinity negative duration? 

Mind Expansion has more than Constitution and more range than stretch. Who cares that it's double the mod requirement; you save a mod space and only need one forma to have more of an effect than two mods put together with a whole four points less. (Constitution is 13. Stretch is 9. 13 + 9 = 22. Continuity is 9*2=18) 

 

And yes, I know DE does stupid S#&$ too (Drifting contact which is about the equivalence of Body Count and three times Melee Prowess at a third of the cost of both of them put together) but ideas like this are just kind of laughing at balance. 

[ironfirefist]

14 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

-snip-

they such a pathetic range...AND pathetic damage..they really have nothing going for them

Daggers could use some love, but on the other hand bandaids are not the solution. Covert lethality is satisfying, but a bandaid nonetheless.

Then again, damage is alright considering attack speed, but the range takes all the good stuff away.

14 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Covert lethality sadly dont work on dual daggers and having one mods shouldnt dictate if a weapon is useful or not but that aside if DE dont want to fix thing they should atleast give us mods to "fix" problems.

Well the problem is that a primed reach orthos prime is more efficient at hitting targets than a low range dagger (dual or not).

I wish they did stuff like a faster stealth kill or something.

Just purely on physical properties it's more realstic for daggers to be how they are now, fast speed, low range, and if you're not having a rakta dark dagger you're basically screwed, and that weapon still builds better for stat.

Then again, we're in a game with space ninjas. Things don't have to make sense. Maybe they can add some special dagger that has increasing range on crit or hit, basically like the lenz is still a bow, but could classify as grenade launcher in some way. The same for a dagger that could classify as a sword.

Maybe another problem is that heat daggers and ether daggers are low MR, more starter weapons. Powercreep might have diminished their worth, but bandaids are not the solution.

[ironfirefist]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said:

the enemy self-damage shouldn't be a mod.  If we get self-damage from launchers - so should they.

Nice idea, but maybe it's hard to get this into their AI. Considering how mobile we are, we could stand in front of a bombard in no time, making them unable to shoot at us, due to self damage. Unless grineer are so fanatic they'd do suicide for their queens.

But a nice idea, this could prevent napalms from warming their own feet whilst they roast us.

[Fallen_Echo]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Lol, and where is the balance here? 

I could understand Void Mastery ( even though it's simply not going to be enough for most "caster" frames -- hell, the buff sounds more fitting on Excalibur than Mag or Banshee) 

But stuff like Focused Rage? You only need to get streamline and you're in 5% of max power efficiency. Most people use that same level on Fleeting expertise to maximize effect and minimize waste. It also adds more power strength than base intensify, and as much as Energy Conversion? What's the point of those two mods after that, or Fleeting Expertise except for stupid things like Trinity negative duration? 

Mind Expansion has more than Constitution and more range than stretch. Who cares that it's double the mod requirement; you save a mod space and only need one forma to have more of an effect than two mods put together with a whole four points less. (Constitution is 13. Stretch is 9. 13 + 9 = 22. Continuity is 9*2=18) 

 

And yes, I know DE does stupid S#&$ too (Drifting contact which is about the equivalence of Body Count and three times Melee Prowess at a third of the cost of both of them put together) but ideas like this are just kind of laughing at balance. 

Theres no balance here. The main objective is to create diverse builds and not everything needs to be balanced.

Our enemies scale without a limit as their level goes up all of them get more armor, health and shield along with constantly increasing damage.

You also need to take the point cost into consideration.

Focused rage 20 points - polarity, MInd expand 18 point V polarity, Void mastery 20 point D polarity.

You are right that mind expand is less points but constitution is a mod for getting back faster from knockbacks and also 4 point less is not that huge. 

The whole point here is to diversify builds more, ahve you ever looked at a frame and thought "damm i need more p.strenght to make these skills useful but if i put in blind rage they become useless thanks to my pitiful energy pool?" many frames just cant reach their true potential because of their needless limits.

For example Volt has these unneeded damage caps what makes his ult turn off once he reaches the cap. If he could get a mod what increases duration by 90% and further decreases strenght by 90% this could be the ultimate CC skill, Mag could also take a great use for the focused rage as she is an energy hungry caster getting more power and less energy usage is something what she really needs.

 

[(PSN)theelix]

19 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Our enemies scale without a limit as their level goes up all of them get more armor, health and shield along with constantly increasing damage.

Which is something we want changed. Not washed over so that they have a reason to be lazy. 

 

19 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You are right that mind expand is less points but constitution is a mod for getting back faster from knockbacks and also 4 point less is not that huge. 

Constitution is, more hugely, a mod that increases power duration by 28%. The knockdown recovery is negligible due to the recovery frames. 

Quote

The whole point here is to diversify builds more, ahve you ever looked at a frame and thought "damm i need more p.strenght to make these skills useful but if i put in blind rage they become useless thanks to my pitiful energy pool?" 

Yes, I have. And it's taught me to reach out to different sorts of builds that approach things from different perspectives. Right now I have an Excalibur build that I take on endurance runs that I've seen, so far, no one has even thought of. I have so much extra room that three of my mods are just to make his ground movement faster. Being able to build an excalibur like that, but being able to just throw in a mod like Mind Expansion for ONE MOD SLOT would make the build so braindead easy to use it would require less skill and trivialize all content that I play completely.

Spoiler

^{_{(inb4 the "haha just don't equip the mod then" why not use the resources at my disposal to my advantage? I'm using the best of what I have to something that fits me perfectly, and it feels balanced perfectly balanced. Not braindead easy, not requiring so much physical skill that I'm just making life hard.)}} .

I'd give up less than 20% of my speed just to have Radial Blind be more useful than it already is, and it's ludicrously useful already. 

Quote

For example Volt 

Volt's ult is the problem there, not the modding system. It has an unneeded damage cap, so why add a mod that fixes that? It's like pouring water on a stake steak because it tastes too dry -- you're trying to fix the end result when it's the preparation process that needs to be fixed. You're left with a murky mess that ends up also getting the table dirty and putting stains in the tablecloth. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by (PS4)theelix
Steak, not that thing you kill vampires with

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Which is something we want changed. Not washed over so that they have a reason to be lazy. 

You think it ever going to get fixed? If DE removes damage and armor scaling from the enemies than it might be different but that wouldnt really help when the upscaled HP numbers turn basic butchers into deadly meatwalls.

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Constitution is, more hugely, a mod that increases power duration by 28%. The knockdown recovery is negligible due to the recovery frames. 

Yes and we all run our squad with recovery frames.

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Yes, I have. And it's taught me to reach out to different sorts of builds that approach things from different perspectives. Right now I have an Excalibur build that I take on endurance runs that I've seen, so far, no one has even thought of. I have so much extra room that three of my mods are just to make his ground movement faster. Being able to build an excalibur like that, but being able to just throw in a mod like Mind Expansion for ONE MOD SLOT would make the build so braindead easy to use it would require less skill and trivialize all content that I play completely.

Well good for you. Mind sharing it?

 

Back to topic i would really like to make some alternative builds focusing on my less used skills but sadly they all lack the proper mods to function. I dislike the idea of crippling all my skills to make 1 skill useful, thats why i posted these.

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

I'd give up less than 20% of my speed just to have Radial Blind be more useful than it already is, and it's ludicrously useful already. 

Less energy, more range and duration you could use my mods and make radial blind a greater skill without decreasing the effective power of others. Thats the point of those mods.

1 hour ago, (PS4)theelix said:

Volt's ult is the problem there, not the modding system. It has an unneeded damage cap, so why add a mod that fixes that? It's like pouring water on a stake steak because it tastes too dry -- you're trying to fix the end result when it's the preparation process that needs to be fixed. You're left with a murky mess that ends up also getting the table dirty and putting stains in the tablecloth. 

Lets say we have a painting. One was made on the proper canvas with the proper paint, the other was made on lesser quality canvas but with excellent paint. The end results are technically the same with both variants.

Your analogy would been better if you would use some advanced humidifier technology what makes the end result almost as desirable as one made with proper meat.

The difference here is the first one is perfect the second one was made to be perfect.