current state of ember

[babywrath]

Shes fine. Dominates the most boring of missions but only slightly helps in endgame content. Anybody else complaining of kill count and total damage are only looking at themselves. Overall she makes games easier as a whole. 

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, Fezeal said:

Yep wich makes you no better, excuse me for not wanting to follow a guy around get no kills have no fun run to extraction bored as hell, your the type of guy that abuses people so your worse.

Then freaking leave the group, we dont need someone just to take up space. You are useless to the group and i will do everything what i can to make you either try to play or leave.

[Beatrix7hearts]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

2013 she was godly.  Overheat used to give her 95% damage reduction and WoF used to hit an unlimited number of enemies within her range.  2014 DE nerfed her into the ground.  Overheat was removed and WoF was given a duration and efficiency nerf, a range nerf, a DoT nerf, and a target number nerf.  2015 brought her back to half her previous awesomeness.  Folks complain that she's too efficient.  But those players didn't witness her during that year and a half stretch of awfulness, because nobody used her then.

In my opinion, leave her be.

 

Finally! Someone who saw what I saw. She was worked on more than 2 times and all because conplaints like this, i agree she must be left as is. Its her niche let her own it like the fire frame that she is. 

[Berserk-King]

28 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Then freaking leave the group, we dont need someone just to take up space. You are useless to the group and i will do everything what i can to make you either try to play or leave.

Why so emotional? why are you upset if someone afks while ember solos the mission or follows ember while she solos the mission? is it the 30 seconds at the end waiting on extraction pad thats making you so upset? look don't cry on my watch if we end up in the same team, if your not a ember i'm as active and helpful as anyone.

[Pktrd]

Just make WOF similar to Ivara stealth.

When one sprint WOF turns off.

[MagPrime]

17 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

Just make WOF similar to Ivara stealth.

When one sprint WOF turns off.

I rather like this idea.

[DatDarkOne]

31 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

Just make WOF similar to Ivara stealth.

When one sprint WOF turns off.

I can work with this also.  

[Radagosh]

9 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I rather like this idea.

I don't, except if you also buff her WoF to do good dmg in high level content again. I'm one of those people that usually gets 80-90% of dmg done and i can tell you it's not only ember it's the combination with an atterax or other whirl-to-win weapon. If DE nerfed my WoF I'd just go to volt or nezha and would spin even faster, i'd become a Beyblade of doom. How many Embers do you guys see in sorties? I don't see many, because WoF just becomes useless as the enemies approach level 60.

Ember is used because you don't have to be stationary with her 4, if you'd take that away from her she'd become useless, since we already have the stand still and kill everything frames i.e. Banshee, Saryn, Hydroid...

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Fezeal said:

Why so emotional? why are you upset if someone afks while ember solos the mission or follows ember while she solos the mission? is it the 30 seconds at the end waiting on extraction pad thats making you so upset? look don't cry on my watch if we end up in the same team, if your not a ember i'm as active and helpful as anyone.

Im tired of all the leaches afking in my groups, expect bugs the only thing what can make my happiness go away are afk leaches in the missions. Guy hides on an unreachable spot in hireracon, sits on the top of the energy cannon on Io, goes afk on akkad on the enemy spawn point. I had enough of them, i despise them i rather do a survival mission with 3 limbos spamming cata and stasis than have another defese run ruined because someone is not willing to do anything but also refuses to leave the group.

[Pktrd]

8 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

I don't, except if you also buff her WoF to do good dmg in high level content again. I'm one of those people that usually gets 80-90% of dmg done and i can tell you it's not only ember it's the combination with an atterax or other whirl-to-win weapon. If DE nerfed my WoF I'd just go to volt or nezha and would spin even faster, i'd become a Beyblade of doom. How many Embers do you guys see in sorties? I don't see many, because WoF just becomes useless as the enemies approach level 60.

Ember is used because you don't have to be stationary with her 4, if you'd take that away from her she'd become useless, since we already have the stand still and kill everything frames i.e. Banshee, Saryn, Hydroid...

So maybe simple reduction in speed by lets say 30% will do the job while WOF is active.

 

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, Radagosh said:

Ember is used because you don't have to be stationary with her 4

But she wouldn't be stationary at all with this idea (quoted again below).  She would still be able to move around, parkour, double jump, aim glide, etc.  You don't have to sprint everywhere to move.

47 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

Just make WOF similar to Ivara stealth.

When one sprint WOF turns off.

 

[Andaius]

36 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I rather like this idea.

 

22 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I can work with this also.  

Eh, This doesn't make much sense to me. Given her kit she's setup to be a high mobility short range fire damage killer. All her powers tend to be within 20-30 meters. She can be mobile with the majority of her powers and they can all cause CC or knock downs. (aside from fireball) She really seem to be geared to a run and gun play style that uses all her abilities. So why all of a sudden make her 4 turn off if she's moving? This just seems to be geared to the AFK WoF player. 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Andaius

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

But she wouldn't be stationary at all with this idea (quoted again below).  She would still be able to move around, parkour, double jump, aim glide, etc.  You don't have to sprint everywhere to move.

 

Mate. Every single one of these suggestions, every last one of them, is basically saying "I don't want WoF to be actually useful, so that way people will just totally stop ever using it. I'm couching it in terms of a suggestion which sounds kind of reasonable, but which in practice is total nonsense."

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Andaius said:

 

Eh, This doesn't make much sense to me. Given her kit she's setup to be a high mobility short range fire damage killer. All her powers tend to be within 20-30 meters. She can be mobile with the majority of her powers and they can all cause CC or knock downs. (aside from fireball) She really seem to be geared to a run and gun play style that uses all her abilities. So why all of a sudden make her 4 turn off if she's moving? This just seems to be geared to the AFK WoF player. 

It's because those are not real suggestions. They're basically just people saying "Kill Ember," but who won't come out and say that's what they want.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 8/30/2017 at 5:58 AM, SupremeDutchGamer said:

so... lately all ive seen cheese wise is embers... although i personally dont think that ember deserves a reduction in power. just a little bit of rebalancing to shift power from her 4 to her other abilities. although id like to know. what is the comunities impression of ember. does she need a nerf? does she need a rework? does she need a buff? or is she fine as is?

She definitely isn't fine as is but I think she's in a spot that allows her to be strong enough to be popular. She's pretty good playing solo and I don't often see people use Ember unless it's for an extermination or something that needs to be done quick. I only use her to speed up defense alerts especially if I know I will be met by newer player. Players generally use Ember for efficiency. They will probably leave immediately after whatever mission you're doing is done. They shouldn't be much of a problem due to the nature of that.

If you want to actually have fun, get to higher mastery ranks and actually play the harder content. Ember is unable to do much in those higher level content.

[Radagosh]

18 minutes ago, Pktrd said:

So maybe simple reduction in speed by lets say 30% will do the job while WOF is active.

 

Again would result in me becoming Beyblade of doom.

Warframe is for me at least a fast paced horde shooter if you take my mobility away im gonna drop the frame. If you want to nerf WoF to be used less in conjunction with moving around i personally feel like you could make it eat some extra energy while sprinting. However, this feels like a huge punish against anything above level 30, because as mentioned WoF doesn't do enough dmg to warrant a nerf. Which would result in no one actually using WoF anymore and thus, most likely dropping the frame behind the ability as well.

To counteract this i'd love an actual damage rework, instead of a fixed number why not a percentage? What would this mean? Well, Ember's 4 would suck vs low level now but she would be amazing vs anything above level 40. (Armor would still affect it of course)

Edited August 31, 2017 by Radagosh
1 typo detected - dont care about the others too much to read again

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Mate. Every single one of these suggestions, every last one of them, is basically saying "I don't want WoF to be actually useful, so that way people will just totally stop ever using it. I'm couching it in terms of a suggestion which sounds kind of reasonable, but which in practice is total nonsense."

I'm looking at the suggestion from the perspective of an Ivara main who also plays Ember from time to time.  I don't really see a problem with Ember being that way as I'm already use to not sprinting to get anywhere from using Prowl.  So it's not a big deal to me as I've already mastered mobility while in Prowl.  Which is why I said that I can work with it.  

I was also somewhat correcting the somewhat general incorrect thinking that some on the forums seem to have that while in Prowl, the player can't move, jump, and parkour.  :D

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Radagosh said:

Again would result in me becoming Beyblade of doom.

Warframe is for me at least a face paced horde shooter if you take my mobility away im gonna drop the frame. If you want to nerf WoF to be used less in conjunction with moving around i personally feel like you could make it eat some extra energy while sprinting. However, this feels like a huge punish against anything above level 30, because as mentioned WoF doesn't do enough dmg to warrant a nerf. Which would result in no one actually using WoF anymore and thus, most likely dropping the frame behind the ability as well.

To counteract this i'd love an actual damage rework, instead of a fixed number why not a percentage? What would this mean? Well, Ember's 4 would suck vs low level now but she would be amazing vs anything above level 40. (Armor would still affect it of course)

Which is my point. The people saying "Just remove Ember's ability to move while using WoF," either don't understand what they're talking about, or they do understand what they're talking about and the suggestion is a deliberate stalking horse for just getting rid of Ember's utility at high levels.

[Radagosh]

11 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

But she wouldn't be stationary at all with this idea (quoted again below).  She would still be able to move around, parkour, double jump, aim glide, etc.  You don't have to sprint everywhere to move.

 

Yeah, she wouldn't be stationary to use, but in the end you would not use her at all. Because you use Ember only to run and kill and not for standing still and killing enemies that way.

Now, if you disable her ability while running why would you use her at all? There are better options to run and kill then.
So 4 months after the ember nerf we'd have a discussion about volt's speed affecting melee weapons and people furious about these volt players outdamaging them and complaining on the forums asking for nerfs.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Radagosh
some coherency added

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm looking at the suggestion from the perspective of an Ivara main who also plays Ember from time to time.  I don't really see a problem with Ember being that way as I'm already use to not sprinting to get anywhere from using Prowl.  So it's not a big deal to me as I've already mastered mobility while in Prowl.  Which is why I said that I can work with it.  

I was also somewhat correcting the somewhat general incorrect thinking that some on the forums seem to have that while in Prowl, the player can't move, jump, and parkour.  :D

Prowl is invisibility. You don't need to be hyper mobile in it.

 

 

At high levels, WOF is not an instant death aura, it's a massive CC aura, through which enemies can still shoot you. At high levels, Ember-as-short-ranged-crowd-control-murdermachine has to be hyper mobile.

 

Thus, saying that WoF should carry a massive mobility debuff is very directly saying that Ember should just be nerfed, out of spite.

[Andaius]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm looking at the suggestion from the perspective of an Ivara main who also plays Ember from time to time.  I don't really see a problem with Ember being that way as I'm already use to not sprinting to get anywhere from using Prowl.  So it's not a big deal to me as I've already mastered mobility while in Prowl.  Which is why I said that I can work with it.  

I was also somewhat correcting the somewhat general incorrect thinking that some on the forums seem to have that while in Prowl, the player can't move, jump, and parkour.  :D

Well you have to take into account that Ember isn't invisible while doing this. She's not that tough. Take away her ability to move and whittle down weaker enemies while focusing on the strong ones means death on anything. Even level 20 enemies can cut her down if your not paying attention and just face tanking stuff.

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Prowl is invisibility. You don't need to be hyper mobile in it.

 

 

At high levels, WOF is not an instant death aura, it's a massive CC aura, through which enemies can still shoot you. At high levels, Ember-as-short-ranged-crowd-control-murdermachine has to be hyper mobile.

 

Thus, saying that WoF should carry a massive mobility debuff is very directly saying that Ember should just be nerfed, out of spite.

 

Wow seem we play Ember very similarly. I'm of the Ember players that ground slap into the middle of mobs accelerant them hit a fireblast and finish up survivors with tigris all the while WoF is weakening or finishing off wounded enemies.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Andaius

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Andaius said:

Well you have to take into account that Ember isn't invisible while doing this. She's not that tough. Take away her ability to move and whittle down weaker enemies while focusing on the strong ones means death on anything. Even level 20 enemies can cut her down if your not paying attention and just face tanking stuff.

Which is my point, the same one I've been making for the past five posts:

 

When people suggest "Oh, just make it so that Ember can't move and use WoF," what they're really saying is that Ember's utility at high levels should be destroyed because they don't like her at low levels.

 

 

Two weeks later you'll say the same thing about Equinox.

 

 

 

Then you'll all complain about boring, stationary gameplay.

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Radagosh said:

Yeah, she wouldn't but you would not use her at all. Because you use her only to run and kill and not for stationary targets. 

Speak for yourself please.  I've already explained my reasons above. 

Wow, everyone now seems to think I'm out to Nerf Ember now because I said "I (me, myself) could work with that suggestion".  Personally, I think the whole complaining about Ember is stupid.  I can sympathize with newer players, but only to a certain degree.  

[Pktrd]

This game is about killing stuff and when somebody kills 90% of stuff just by sprinting ahead of team then something wrong is happening.

Also imagine Inaros tornado without speed debuff but actual buff

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Pktrd said:

This game is about killing stuff and when somebody kills 90% of stuff just by sprinting ahead of team then something wrong is happening.

Also imagine Inaros tornado without speed debuff but actual buff

To be honest, I can do that right now with about half of my frames and not even use Ember to accomplish this.