Why most people that start playing Warframe leave the next day.

[Dreamforger]

It is just not very beginner friendly.. improved alot though since launch.

Also think peoples attentionspan have shorten :) People are looking for a quick fix.. and imo Warframe first shiny after 80 hours, I mean like after that you either continue forever (with a few breaks), or just stop never to look back :b

It is also overwhelming with all the mods and stuff.. really it should be looked at as equipment (armour/gear) or enchantments/gems or the like. It is no more complex than your average rpg.. it just overwhelms you, and give an illusion of complexity.

[Mousarchy]

one thing we DO need. is the explination that mods are a multiplicitive upgrade. (also lotus should REALLY point into the codex...were there is a long list of tutorials that most people dont know exist)

but often asides from "were do i go next?" (as a person that likes to finish all unlockables and can follow a decent trail. Im usually dumbfounded by this one)
the biggest issues I see on new players is either a) the lack of modding knowledge (most of which comes from experience once you learn how mods effect weapons/frames) or b) the major power gap between being able to actualy mod there weapons and progress (most players have issues by mars/phobos because they either cant lvl up there mods or just have no space without investing into a potato)
would be neat if some of the early quest gave a potato and taught you how to over charge (or even having the starter weapon overcharged so they can actually learn how to mod)

[Mousarchy]

On 9/29/2017 at 4:48 AM, Volinus7 said:

Then someone says no no no WF isn't as grindy as KMMO, the hypocritical cycle has been created in this forum many times.

 

who the hell is saying warfarm isnt grindy? that is LITTERLY what this game is most the time (outside being a fun 'murder things cuz im a space ninja' simulator.
This game is basically a 3rd person diablo in lvls of murder farming.

[Artekkor]

Its called learning curve.

Warframe's is too high up when you just start. There are just too many things to explain and the game keeps introducing new ones as you progress.

Ironically the game becomes easy after you learn them all, but still.

Tutorials for everything will take like 20 minutes to explain everything.

[PrivateRiem]

If almost 45% of players stop playing before they even find a single mod, there IS a problem.

Of course the game is not for everybody, even though we do get a lot of youngsters under 18 regardless of the game being rated M.

I personally remember being extremely frustrated with the game 4 years ago when I started playing because the early game was incredibly difficult with very few to no mods and the starting weaponry being lackluster, credit and ressource drops being low and decent mods hard to come by.

 

If I hadn't been so stubborn, that first interception mission would have made me quit. I joined a clan a few days later and I'm still with them to this day.

Playing this game without a clan is a sure way to either get bored or burn-out.

[StinkyPygmy]

18 hours ago, Artek94 said:

Its called learning curve.

Warframe's is too high up when you just start. There are just too many things to explain and the game keeps introducing new ones as you progress.

Ironically the game becomes easy after you learn them all, but still.

Thats very, very true. WF is one of the few games around that has a BACKWARDS difficulty/learning curve. Not even Dark Souls has a backwards curve like WF does.

I remember someone posting in a really old thread back in the day a neat little line graph comparison of how games are generally designed in terms of difficulty/progression/reward vs WF difficulty curve. In short, games are generally designed in two ways: Either they have a wave like curve in regards to difficulty where things start out easy, you get taught how to play (even if only a tiny bit) then you'll have your first challenge and difficulty will peak, then you'll get a shiny new toy for succeeding and things will be easier again for a while but suddenly peak again and the cycle repeats. Then there's the second more simple curve where things start out easy and progressively get harder and harder with less up and down in terms of difficulty. 

WFs curve is effectively a backwards version of the last one where everything starts out about as hard as it will ever been in the beginning and only gets easier, and easier as you progress through the game.

Edited October 3, 2017 by StinkyPygmy

[(PSN)godhelpme89]

On 9/29/2017 at 12:39 PM, komoriblues said:

Dudes, although I agree there's a ton of gamers now that hardly want a challenge or even put effort into a game and it's rotting the gaming industry inside and out. .believe me I can't stand it!

This thread was about Warframes initial experience for new players, not changing the game itself beyond giving some light explanations to guide new players better than what exists now. I don't think this is a bad thing at all! I really think players could get better explanation and it's not going to put a dent on the edginess of those of us who like a challenge. .that's not what the thread was about

Sure lots of us found a way through it anyway, are used to a different era of gaming and so on. .but let's not be so dense that we can't acknowledge that players might need a little help getting started. .not everyone works the same way or has the sensibility to self navigate or quite frankly the patience for a game starting out. .I'd rather Warframe welcomes new players through a sense of playing and getting more players on board than losing them to frustration! Let's at least give them a strong foundation of understanding core mechanics and features. .that's not going to hurt anybody. .I think??

This^

There is a difference between a tutorial and holding someone's hand. All of these "back in my day" types need to keep this in mind, please. 

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

Do you have a bigger datasource besides your friends? Do you know how much time most of the people here put into the game?

[BlackRoseAngel]

On 10/3/2017 at 7:06 AM, (PS4)godhelpme89 said:

This^

There is a difference between a tutorial and holding someone's hand. All of these "back in my day" types need to keep this in mind, please. 

I am an old school gamer and I was thrown by the lack of information. I don't think that game would be worse off for a better tutorial system and a more easily accessible way to learn the mechanics. The "Mastery Test" system fails miserably at that. When I first started playing this game, I was instantly put off by the time walls, the confusing jump mechanics and the utter lack of information and tools to help new players. I may have been to struggle through it on my second attempt, but not for lack of these problems. More that I found exploits to deal with some of them. I.E. Titania. (Frankly Titania is the only reason I'm still playing and even that's wearing thin.)

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

I rather have a complex game that wont hold my hands rather than a dumbdown game. This is a f2p game and not a 3a game, if the game longetivity suffers it will fail.

I rather have the dev spend their time on improving the game rather than improving the tutorial, there already a lot of tutorial pages ingame that teaches the basic, explains mod system, lvl system, movements etc.there are even quest that explains a feature in detail like the kubrow quest, archwing intro in limbo theorem. Quest that introduces you to new mission types like the nidus quest/farming. 

The players have been pampered and holded hands for far too long that they think everything should be explained to them. In the natah quest the game even mock you for it. "Cant you find any thing unless it is marked for you?"

[Mauverine]

I got a friend of mine to try warframe two days ago, or something.

The one reason he stopped playing after five minutes was nausea due to FOV even at max possible distance being too close.

The people I've previously brought to warframe have been rather lost in this new world, though. They progress in different speeds, yet the common thing is me helping and explaining. "You see the mods there, how they have these two lines, like a crack?" "Yep, I see now." It ain't about stupidity, it's easy to know when one already gets the game and how it works, but to expect new players to know all the details and nuances alternatively find them on their own without e.g. deleting stuff they may need later on, and when a lot of features are split between places, just ain't logical. I don't mind explaining and helping, in fact I like being "the brain" which knows how stuff work able to lend a hand, but it shouldn't be close to a requirement for a new player to already know alternatively get to know someone in order to "do right" in a game.

I hope that wasn't too unclear, felt like I tied a knot in my own head. I need breakfast now, lol.

[Chipputer]

On 9/29/2017 at 10:57 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

A third has now quit within two weeks, saying he prefers destiny,

>Merc post
>Found a way to mention Destiny

Color me surprised.

[Chipputer]

4 hours ago, Wanettedeath said:

"You see the mods there, how they have these two lines, like a crack?" "Yep, I see now." It ain't about stupidity

But it is.

The mod has a different image and has the text "DAMAGED" right there in the description. It takes a simple bit of logical processing to see, "This one is cracked and says damaged and this one isn't," to realize that the one that doesn't say damaged must somehow be different and explore the situation further and realize that it's stronger because it's... not a damaged mod.

Some things do need tutorials. That's fine. Some things need basic reading comprehension and basic brain function to understand.

[Vox_Preliator]

I'm still confused how someone feels lost after Vor's Prize.  If anything, I feel early game is the most structured part, with uncompleted nodes blinking and unlocking more as you progress, and Junctions giving clear objectives.  Even when I started playing before the current iteration of the Starchart, there were dozens of missions to do because I liked doing them before my basic weapons with damaged mods started to fall behind in effectiveness, and by then I had experimented with the modding system and figured out enough of the basics to get started on properly building strength.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:  If a player doesn't like doing things in Warframe, they aren't going to enjoy Warframe.

Also, I admit I'm probably in the minority, but I just don't see what's so bad about expecting your players in an online game to go to the Wiki or the community when they need information.  It's a primarily co-op game, the fact that there are vast repositories of player-created resources should be a given.  Heck, I would wholeheartedly support an "External Database" button in the Codex that just straight-up opens the Wiki.

[Helaton]

I was asked about the damaged mods too about 'How can I repair the damaged mods'. 

I was thinking 'How can they restore the damage mods?'  Only thing I could think of was use Endo to restore damaged mods (Endo + Credits or Platinum).  If the new players go that route, they will have invested time into the game to get that far which would be a small success. Damaged Bronze - 250 Endo, Silver - 1000 Endo, Gold - 2500 Endo

It will make for farming for some mods inconsequential though (warframe powers), but player retention would be a little bit higher.

 

I am really happy with their Vacuum for companions and that a companion in the form of Taxon is available relatively early.

[(XBOX)Spaztic Magic]

11 minutes ago, Helaton said:

I was asked about the damaged mods too about 'How can I repair the damaged mods'. 

I was thinking 'How can they restore the damage mods?'  Only thing I could think of was use Endo to restore damaged mods (Endo + Credits or Platinum).  If the new players go that route, they will have invested time into the game to get that far which would be a small success. Damaged Bronze - 250 Endo, Silver - 1000 Endo, Gold - 2500 Endo

It will make for farming for some mods inconsequential though (warframe powers), but player retention would be a little bit higher.

 

I am really happy with their Vacuum for companions and that a companion in the form of Taxon is available relatively early.

As someone who, after two years, still has a damaged Equilibrium, I like the idea of being able to "mend" the damaged mods with Endo.

Edited October 9, 2017 by (XB1)Spaztic Magic

[(PSN)CptCosmic]

the latest generation is spoiled by hand holding at every possible situation. there are several studies regarding that which indicate that humanity is slowly getting dumber instead of advancing.

back in the good old days it was totally normal to jump right into the water and try out everything by yourself, see what every button does and what the limits of the game are. a respectable gamer should be able to find out the basic things by himself relatively fast, just saying :)

Edited October 9, 2017 by (PS4)CptCosmic

[SolidAcid]

On 9/28/2017 at 6:26 PM, KillerXDIZ said:

Recently i've got some friends to play Warframe, some even invested money in the game for platinum, but most of them left the game barely after starting. From 4 people only 1 stayed. All of them liked the core aspects of the game but the problems faced early made em leave the game. This sounds like a really big deal, a good introduction is very important.

I'm here to mention their biggest complaints about why they left the game.

The first one is that they felt completely lost after defeating Vor. They didn't know what to do or where to go. They didn't know how to do things. They didn't know why do things.

The biggest problem was with the mods. Most of the mods recieved during Vor tutorial missions are broken, but nowhere it's mentioned to the new player that broken mods are weakened versions of the original mods. Also the information about upgrading and interacting with mods is very limited or no-existant within the game. The only way to acquire knowledge about mods is either by acquiring it externally from the core game (Community, Wikipedia etc) or by experience (Test and Trial).

This feels absurdly ridiculous that even though mods are such a huge part of the game, there's not a single tutorial early on talking about them. This tutorial talking about Mods should already exist. The codex tutorial is awful, that small pieces of text barely teach players anything.

To keep people in the game, the tutorial needs more information and after defeating vor, more orientation. There needs to be a heavier movement tutorial also, most of them didn't know how to make most special moves, like bullet jump or air glide. The tutorial in Warframe in it's current state is lacking some very important content that players use constantly in every run.

Edit:

I'm not saying that the game needs to tell people everything they have to do, but that there's barely any information about mods in any moment in the tutorials even though it's a huge part of Warframe. The game shouldn't tell you where to go but to where you could go, because until Vor, you will be constantly sent in a straight sequence of missions and suddenly a star chart is in your face. This could be prevented if the Star Chart was used more directly from the beggining.

Well, i imagine this situation now.

One situation is that you were with them in-game, already busy with more of the endgame. They need time for their own to figure our what's possible.

This is the way my experience with Diablo (II) got demolished because i teamed up with 3 others that already played for years. They didn't take time explaining stuff. Their advise was only according to their playstyle.

We all had to face the learningcurve, being competitive early in the game, brings disappointment.

 

 

[BlackCoMerc]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

the latest generation is spoiled by hand holding at every possible situation. there are several studies regarding that which indicate that humanity is slowly getting dumber instead of advancing.

back in the good old days it was totally normal to jump right into the water and try out everything by yourself, see what every button does and what the limits of the game are. a respectable gamer should be able to find out the basic things by himself relatively fast, just saying :)

Words canno convey the degree to which I despise this rose tinted, nostalgia weighted ridiculousness that is this argument. 

Back in the day, all we had was a paper manual. So of course we dove in and tried everything ourselves. The alternative was reading a book ABOUT the game we just bought, as opposed to actually playing it.

Times have changed a bit. The which you would know if you'd turn off the cathode ray tube you are doubtless still watching, close your flip top phone and go somewhere that isnt still using dial up internet because hey, that's we ever really needed right? I mean, FASTER? Who wants FASTER? This is GOOD ENOUGH. 

Now that games - well, every game except Warframe - have the ability to teach us the basic mechanics WHILE WE PLAY, failure to do so is just that: FAILURE. As in, Design Failure. 

You want to obfuscate lore and story, Dark Souls style? Fine. The less exposition and the fewer cutscenes a game employs the better. Neither fit the genre or the medium, and I'd be rid of all of them if i could be. But obfuscating HOW YOUR PRODUCT WORKS FOR THE CUSTOMER is just poor product design. Inarguably, objectively bad design. Back in the day, people had the OPTION to read the manual you chose to shun. Now that tutorials are a thing, the manual no longer exists and people dont have that option. So yes, we NEED tutorials for how things work.

Or perhaps next time you buy a car, they should just refuse to show you how to perform literally any task involved in its operation and leave you to figure it out. While driving. On the freeway.

Edited October 9, 2017 by BlackCoMerc

[SolidAcid]

5 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Or perhaps next time you buy a car, they should just refuse to show you how to perform literally any task involved in its operation and leave you to figure it out. While driving. On the freeway.

So for every new car you buy, you also take a new drivers license test?

Edited October 9, 2017 by SolidAcid

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, SolidAcid said:

So for every new car you buy, you also take a new drivers licence test?

No. Because I know to use my license.

But I DO let the salesman tell where the ignition switch/button is, how to turn on the headlights and dim or brighten the interiors, which knob adjusts the AC and where the power button is for the radio if I dont happen to notice it on my own.

Further, I read the manual. Which is how I know the optimal tire pressure for my car in each season, that my car has an engine brake if I double tap the gas, how to use sportmatic/manual shift mode and what the correct oil pressure and type are. 

But feel free to figure all that out as you go. Just be sure to keep your Triple A membership active while you do so.

[Helaton]

There is one other aspect, I noticed as playing with my new player friends.  This could be pretty important too.

In the very beginning, (we're on discord) we communicated a lot.  As my friends stuck with it, we are communicating less and less as there is less need to.  All actions in warframe can be very repetitive.  However apart from the repetitive to the grind, just repetitive to the series of actions being performed.

I can imagine that the amount of time we talk is proportional to the 'fun' we're having and length of time spent in warframe.  Warframe has a short shelf life if you're playing solo.  PUGs don't really count as its the same as bots as few people actually talk.  If there are actions that prompt using communication, it would be better. (This is probably the main reason why we played Planetside 2 for so long. Communication was essential to that game.)

In fact the time we communicate most is probably when we're searching for Orokin caches.  Aside from that, its 'Star here', 'Gold mod', 'Need revive'.

[Fiftycentis]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CptCosmic said:

back in the good old days it was totally normal to jump right into the water and try out everything by yourself

"mmh, will i die in this spyro game if i go into the water?"....think a bit.... jump into the water

[Rehk-Sai]

I am a relatively new player - having played for about 2 or 3 weeks as of the time of this post. I can 100% confirm the OP is correct on all counts. 

Mods? Had to leave the game and do research on external sites.

Movement? Had no idea how to bullet jump until day 3 or 4 (was only doing it on accident up until then). Had no idea how to wall latch until I got to the freaking LUA spy mission which requires it. 

Story? I had to watch a lore video to have ANY clue what is going on with the story or narrative. This was one of the biggest disappointments, because honestly WF has a pretty good story, but you have ZERO clue what's going on as a new player. Even after watching lore videos, the presentation as it appears in game is really fragmented and disorganized from a story perspective. 

What's crazy is that with a sci-fi setting, we're given the perfect 'out' for how to accomplish these tutorials - virtual reality training modules via Simulus (maybe give Ordis a weak version that simply has repeatable movement tutorials and a mod tutorial). 

The very last thing that really bothers me as a new player is the complete lack of UI customization (resizing and moving things around like the orientation and layout of energy, health, and shield information). 

[Rehk-Sai]

2 hours ago, Helaton said:

There is one other aspect, I noticed as playing with my new player friends.  This could be pretty important too.

In the very beginning, (we're on discord) we communicated a lot.  As my friends stuck with it, we are communicating less and less as there is less need to.  All actions in warframe can be very repetitive.  However apart from the repetitive to the grind, just repetitive to the series of actions being performed.

I can imagine that the amount of time we talk is proportional to the 'fun' we're having and length of time spent in warframe.  Warframe has a short shelf life if you're playing solo.  PUGs don't really count as its the same as bots as few people actually talk.  If there are actions that prompt using communication, it would be better. (This is probably the main reason why we played Planetside 2 for so long. Communication was essential to that game.)

In fact the time we communicate most is probably when we're searching for Orokin caches.  Aside from that, its 'Star here', 'Gold mod', 'Need revive'.

This feels like it should go double for bosses. Which are incredibly disappointing. Coming into WF I was expecting big bosses the size of Lephantis as the norm. Bosses with 1-3 phases, and weak parts, patterns of attack, just interesting fights almost like you can see in old Playstation or Playstation 2 mech games. Instead, we get really gimmicky and cheesy fights where they don't really feel like bosses. There are some that are much better than others, but on the whole they hardly take any skill or teamwork to take down, just some fore-knowledge on their cheese mechanic.